Jonathan Stewart (1 Viewer)

[Carolina Hustler]

I thought this season he got a reboot?

Dwill isn't going anywhere. And Stewy isn't exactly pushing him for the starting gig. Stewy has gotten a reboot every year he's been in the league and he still sucks.

Did Williams sign a contract extension or what are you talking about?

Who is going to give a 28 year old RB a huge contract? The Panthers need him. He's the face of the franchise, probably their best player. If he left they'd have to draft a RB who wouldn't be as good.I've read a few articles and the consensus is that Dwill isn't going anywhere and he's worth more to the Panthers then anyone else.

Not to mention Stewy is always hurt or sucking. People who think Dwill is leaving are Stewart owners. If the Panthers were going to cut bait they would have dealt him for a 3rd/4th this year. But that never made any sense anyway.

On paper the RBs are the Panthers strength, they're not going to break it up so give them yet another weakness to address in the draft. They're a good combo and when they were last good Stewart/Dwill were running over the league. That's probably what they want to get back to.

I kind of agree, which is another reason I've been trying to dump Stewart to the Dwill owner in my dynasty. Everyone always assumes a good RB duo will split in a trade scenario, but it rarely happens. The thing is, RBs are a dime a dozen so no owner is willing to give much in trade. Not to mention, its not looking like either one is performing like a stud this year so it would be way too risky for CAR to assume they still have two studs and get rid of one of them.

By the time Carolina is fully rebuilt under new leadership, D-Will will be 30 years old.... They're better off getting what they can for him now, because next season isn't contending either...

 

[FavreCo]

I thought this season he got a reboot?

Dwill isn't going anywhere. And Stewy isn't exactly pushing him for the starting gig. Stewy has gotten a reboot every year he's been in the league and he still sucks.

Did Williams sign a contract extension or what are you talking about?

Who is going to give a 28 year old RB a huge contract? The Panthers need him. He's the face of the franchise, probably their best player. If he left they'd have to draft a RB who wouldn't be as good.I've read a few articles and the consensus is that Dwill isn't going anywhere and he's worth more to the Panthers then anyone else.

Not to mention Stewy is always hurt or sucking. People who think Dwill is leaving are Stewart owners. If the Panthers were going to cut bait they would have dealt him for a 3rd/4th this year. But that never made any sense anyway.

On paper the RBs are the Panthers strength, they're not going to break it up so give them yet another weakness to address in the draft. They're a good combo and when they were last good Stewart/Dwill were running over the league. That's probably what they want to get back to.

I kind of agree, which is another reason I've been trying to dump Stewart to the Dwill owner in my dynasty. Everyone always assumes a good RB duo will split in a trade scenario, but it rarely happens. The thing is, RBs are a dime a dozen so no owner is willing to give much in trade. Not to mention, its not looking like either one is performing like a stud this year so it would be way too risky for CAR to assume they still have two studs and get rid of one of them.

By the time Carolina is fully rebuilt under new leadership, D-Will will be 30 years old.... They're better off getting what they can for him now, because next season isn't contending either...

I see a Dolphin future for DeAngelo. No reason for him to be underpaid by sticking around on this going nowhere, loser franchise.

 

[Oscar]

Does anybody know the extent of D-Will's injury? Was there any indication that he would be back next week?

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

Does anybody know the extent of D-Will's injury? Was there any indication that he would be back next week?

Honestly, does it really matter?

 

[Thanatos]

I see a Dolphin future for DeAngelo. No reason for him to be underpaid by sticking around on this going nowhere, loser franchise.

 

[gandalas]

By the time Carolina is fully rebuilt under new leadership, D-Will will be 30 years old.... They're better off getting what they can for him now, because next season isn't contending either...

In this era where teams go from worst to first all the time, I don't think this statement is true at all. I think the past 10 years has shown that any team can turn it around from one year to the next (except Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit, apparently...)

 

[Clifford]

This is the story that writes itself. 14 carries, 47 yards and a lot of dissapointed fantasy owners today.

Sorry guys...I way overestimated JStew's numbers this week.

Well done. I thought he might at least get to 60 and a TD with 18 carries. How long has a supposed "running team" gone without any back ever seeing more than 18 carries in a game?

 

[bweiser]

I traded Marques Colston for Stewart in my keeper league in the offseason. It's not a true dynasty - 15-man rosters, can only protect 10 each offseason. We actually play a double season ... First eight weeks is one season, last nine is a second. (Total points). So by 6 p.m. Tuesday, I have to decide if I want to spend another protected roster spot on him before our second-half draft. I never thought I'd drop him, but I'm actually considering it. I have players that are better than him. I tried to trade him in the last 24 hours and haven't gotten so much as a nibble. Very frustrating.

 

[Clifford]

He's definitely droppable. I'm trying to see if I can get anything from the DWill owner first. Carolina abandons the run at the slightest provocation.

Also, Stewarts injuries are obviously finally taking a toll. I posted earlier that he no longer had "it" and this definitely showed that in a big way. Maybe their line is just that putrid but when you are a backup and averaging a full yard less than the starter that is a major warning sign.

 

[Sam Quentin]

212 rushing 80 recg and 4 TD's

wat?

doh!

 

[packersfan]

He's definitely droppable. I'm trying to see if I can get anything from the DWill owner first. Carolina abandons the run at the slightest provocation. Also, Stewarts injuries are obviously finally taking a toll. I posted earlier that he no longer had "it" and this definitely showed that in a big way. Maybe their line is just that putrid but when you are a backup and averaging a full yard less than the starter that is a major warning sign.

I agree. The Panthers' line clearly has major issues but Stewart doesn't look like the same guy we saw the previous two seasons in my opinion. What concerns me now is his Keeper/Dynasty value is taking a hit. Schefter reported a few weeks ago that he expects the Panthers to franchise Williams. If that happens, Stewart's value doesn't get any higher. Based on how bad he looked yesterday the Panthers may be even more inclined to keep Williams.

 

[Clifford]

Stewart is droppable in all formats IMO.

 

[Herm23]

Stewart is droppable in all formats IMO.

Wait, what?Are you referring to all redraft formats or do you mean all formats including keeper and dynasty?Or is this just a big and I was suckered in?

 

[Clifford]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.

So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

 

[Herm23]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.

So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

To address the bolded portion first, he is struggling because he is absolutely not a change of pace or backup type player. Feature backs often times rely on a steady amount of carries to get into the rhythm of a game, wear defenses down, and force their will on the opponent. If you took any player who is accustomed to 18+ carries a game and reduced him to half that amount, I think you would see his metrics suffer along with it. Change of pace backs are successful in part time work because they are exactly that- a change of pace that the defense isn't seeing on a regular basis, thus catching them off guard, usually through short burst quickness.

As to the rest, I just can't see it. Stewart still oozes talent. I watched the game yesterday (not intently, but enough to get a feel for it) and even I am able to tell that 90% of the issues are not Stewart related. The Panthers are very, very bad this year and it is dragging Stewart down with them. DeAngelo is able to produce slightly more (albeit not much more, mind you) because he is a slightly different player and excels in making something out of nothing and/or making people miss. That isn't Stewart's game. He needs some semblance of a hole to effectively use his talents. Right now, he doesn't have ANY holes to run through and actually has defenders meeting him in the backfield the majority of the time. Stewart is not failing the eye test and I don't for a second believe he is any less talented of a player. The reality is he hasn't even had a chance to take the eye test, since the situation around him is dragging him down so greatly.

It is laughable to call him a droppable talent in keeper or dynasty leagues (and I still think this has to be a fishing trip, but I will oblige you anyway). Even if the Panthers resign DeAngelo (or franchise him), Stewart is only 23 years old. If it takes him 3 years to finally earn a chance to start, that would still only put him at 26 and give him 3-4 years in his prime to put up numbers. As to the fishing trip droppable comment, let me just ask this- who on the waiver wire do you see has the upside, talent, potential, and pedigree that Stewart possesses?

 

[joffer]

ETA: a few of you have lost your ####### minds

 

[Todem]

People were saying the same thing about McFadden last year.

Strong hold in dynasty leagues.

But wow what a mystery this season. Just a huge drop off. And I agree that team is total and utter garbage this year.

 

[Clifford]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.

So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

To address the bolded portion first, he is struggling because he is absolutely not a change of pace or backup type player. Feature backs often times rely on a steady amount of carries to get into the rhythm of a game, wear defenses down, and force their will on the opponent. If you took any player who is accustomed to 18+ carries a game and reduced him to half that amount, I think you would see his metrics suffer along with it. Change of pace backs are successful in part time work because they are exactly that- a change of pace that the defense isn't seeing on a regular basis, thus catching them off guard, usually through short burst quickness.

As to the rest, I just can't see it. Stewart still oozes talent. I watched the game yesterday (not intently, but enough to get a feel for it) and even I am able to tell that 90% of the issues are not Stewart related. The Panthers are very, very bad this year and it is dragging Stewart down with them. DeAngelo is able to produce slightly more (albeit not much more, mind you) because he is a slightly different player and excels in making something out of nothing and/or making people miss. That isn't Stewart's game. He needs some semblance of a hole to effectively use his talents. Right now, he doesn't have ANY holes to run through and actually has defenders meeting him in the backfield the majority of the time. Stewart is not failing the eye test and I don't for a second believe he is any less talented of a player. The reality is he hasn't even had a chance to take the eye test, since the situation around him is dragging him down so greatly.

It is laughable to call him a droppable talent in keeper or dynasty leagues (and I still think this has to be a fishing trip, but I will ablige you anyway). Even if the Panthers resign DeAngelo (or franchise him), Stewart is only 23 years old. If it takes him 3 years to finally earn a chance to start, that would still only put him at 26 and give him 3-4 years in his prime to put up numbers. As to the fishing trip droppable comment, let me just ask this- who on the waiver wire do you see has the upside, talent, potential, and pedigree that Stewart possesses?

Ok, your first argument is totally bunk since we are talking about Stewart who has only steadily received 18 or more touches for one short span in his pro career, so you can't say he is accustomed to being a feature back. Barring filling in for an injured starter he hasn't been a featured back since college. He has only seen 18 carries or more in four games his entire pro career. Just like everyone else you simply revert to name value and vague "eyeball tests" yet can't explain why the system is so adversely affecting Stewart, but not adversely effecting his running mate, who plays with the same QB, same HC, OC, Oline, and everything else every week.

You assertion that Stewart is the type of back who needs a lot of carries to work up to a good average doesn't stand up either. Check his game log from 09

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8790/g....uLYF?year=2009

He had six games where he had fewer than 18 carries and averaged over 4ypc.

As for who he could be dropped for, I don't know who is on your WW, but I'd say that guys like Ringer, Choice, and Karim could end up having better 2011 seasons than Stewart.

You could be right about not having holes to run through, who knows. But saying that DWill doesn't need holes and Stewart does to get anything done is silly IMO. All RBs need to have some kind of hole to be effective, and if anything Stewart is supposed to be the more powerful back of the two. Your explanation seems to suggest the opposite, even though at the same time you're saying that Stewart is a power back, not a COP back.

So, here we are again: I'm being called crazy and yet no one can explain how he can't succeed in this system, and DWill can. BTW, his ypc is now 2.8 compared to DWill's 4.1, so he's actually averaging closer to 1.5 ypc less than his teammate.

 

[Redmen62]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

This is, without any hyperbole, the silliest thing I have ever read in the Shark Pool.

 

[Clifford]

People were saying the same thing about McFadden last year.Strong hold in dynasty leagues.But wow what a mystery this season. Just a huge drop off. And I agree that team is total and utter garbage this year.

If we fast forward to this time next year, and Stewart is doing the same and DWill is still ahead of him on the DC, what then? Still a strong hold?Honestly it depends on the league. If you have deep rosters of course he's a hold. If you have shallow rosters then where you are hurting your team by holding on, I think he's a fairly safe drop or sell low.

 

[Hendo]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, this is why i like playing fantasy football with GM's like this.

 

[Clifford]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

This is, without any hyperbole, the silliest thing I have ever read in the Shark Pool.

People said I was nuts for saying McFadden was a better pro prospect than Stewart.People called me a homer for saying the Vikes would be lucky to win 8 games this year back in early August.

People said I was nuts to trade Moss when the trade to Minny happened.

I might be nuts but what I see is a perpetually dinged backup who can't even get over 2.8 ypc when handed a feature role. If I am wrong I will be happy to be so as I just traded for him thinking it was being a backup that held him back. Sorry but a 2.1 ypc is bad no matter how many sprinkles you try to put on top.

 

[Clifford]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, this is why i like playing fantasy football with GM's like this.

So I take you don't have any answer either? Keep laughing.

 

[Herm23]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.

So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

To address the bolded portion first, he is struggling because he is absolutely not a change of pace or backup type player. Feature backs often times rely on a steady amount of carries to get into the rhythm of a game, wear defenses down, and force their will on the opponent. If you took any player who is accustomed to 18+ carries a game and reduced him to half that amount, I think you would see his metrics suffer along with it. Change of pace backs are successful in part time work because they are exactly that- a change of pace that the defense isn't seeing on a regular basis, thus catching them off guard, usually through short burst quickness.

As to the rest, I just can't see it. Stewart still oozes talent. I watched the game yesterday (not intently, but enough to get a feel for it) and even I am able to tell that 90% of the issues are not Stewart related. The Panthers are very, very bad this year and it is dragging Stewart down with them. DeAngelo is able to produce slightly more (albeit not much more, mind you) because he is a slightly different player and excels in making something out of nothing and/or making people miss. That isn't Stewart's game. He needs some semblance of a hole to effectively use his talents. Right now, he doesn't have ANY holes to run through and actually has defenders meeting him in the backfield the majority of the time. Stewart is not failing the eye test and I don't for a second believe he is any less talented of a player. The reality is he hasn't even had a chance to take the eye test, since the situation around him is dragging him down so greatly.

It is laughable to call him a droppable talent in keeper or dynasty leagues (and I still think this has to be a fishing trip, but I will ablige you anyway). Even if the Panthers resign DeAngelo (or franchise him), Stewart is only 23 years old. If it takes him 3 years to finally earn a chance to start, that would still only put him at 26 and give him 3-4 years in his prime to put up numbers. As to the fishing trip droppable comment, let me just ask this- who on the waiver wire do you see has the upside, talent, potential, and pedigree that Stewart possesses?

Ok, your first argument is totally bunk since we are talking about Stewart who has only steadily received 18 or more touches for one short span in his pro career, so you can't say he is accustomed to being a feature back. Barring filling in for an injured starter he hasn't been a featured back since college. He has only seen 18 carries or more in four games his entire pro career. Just like everyone else you simply revert to name value and vague "eyeball tests" yet can't explain why the system is so adversely affecting Stewart, but not adversely effecting his running mate, who plays with the same QB, same HC, OC, Oline, and everything else every week.

You assertion that Stewart is the type of back who needs a lot of carries to work up to a good average doesn't stand up either. Check his game log from 09

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8790/g....uLYF?year=2009

He had six games where he had fewer than 18 carries and averaged over 4ypc.

As for who he could be dropped for, I don't know who is on your WW, but I'd say that guys like Ringer, Choice, and Karim could end up having better 2011 seasons than Stewart.

You could be right about not having holes to run through, who knows. But saying that DWill doesn't need holes and Stewart does to get anything done is silly IMO. All RBs need to have some kind of hole to be effective, and if anything Stewart is supposed to be the more powerful back of the two. Your explanation seems to suggest the opposite, even though at the same time you're saying that Stewart is a power back, not a COP back.

So, here we are again: I'm being called crazy and yet no one can explain how he can't succeed in this system, and DWill can. BTW, his ypc is now 2.8 compared to DWill's 4.1, so he's actually averaging closer to 1.5 ypc less than his teammate.

I did just explain to you how it is possible. The fact that you chose to dismiss it without giving it a 2nd thought is your choice, but doesn't make it any less feasible.Just because the Panthers have used Stewart as a backup/complimentary/change of pace type player doesn't mean that is what he is suited for. If you compare his numbers as a backup to his numbers when he has had the opportunity to start, he is far more productive as a starter. This is the nature of all bellcow type running backs- they require volume to effectively use their talents, at least to some degree.

As for your assertion that all running backs have to have some kind of hole to run through to be effective...huh? Players like DeAngelo, Jamaal Charles, Barry Sanders, etc... make their name by freelancing and improvising when there is nothing there. Players like Jonathan Stewart, Emmit Smith, Chris Johnson, etc... make their name by taking a small hole and burying the defense with their speed/power/moves/etc... They are COMPLETELY different players that bring completely different skillsets to the table. Lets not for a second begin to think that DeAngelo is having a good season, because he is not, but he is having a slightly less bad season than Stewart because #1 he is getting more consistent work and #2 he is a player better suited to make something out of the complete nothing the offensive line is giving him.

As to reverting to name value, no I'm not at all. Stewart has not officially become a starting running back in the NFL yet, so he has essentially no name value. However, he DOES pass the eyeball test and he DOES possess a lot of pedigree and measureables that make it likely he will succeed in the NFL. Not being capable of using an eyeball test to determine the skill level of a player will more often than not leave you significantly behind the curve in this hobby and cause you to miss out on far too many talented players that just don't have the name value yet (this is even more important in dynasty leagues). I concede he has looked less impressive this year than the previous seasons. However, I also believe the majority of that is due to the pieces around him rather than Stewart himself.

 

[steelwind]

As a Stewart owner I am dissapointed. He had a chance to take the starting job and run away with it. He has done nothing this year. DWill probably coming back week 9 and reclaim the starting job.

 

[road warrior]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

This is, without any hyperbole, the silliest thing I have ever read in the Shark Pool.

That's saying quite a mouthful.

 

[Clifford]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.

So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

To address the bolded portion first, he is struggling because he is absolutely not a change of pace or backup type player. Feature backs often times rely on a steady amount of carries to get into the rhythm of a game, wear defenses down, and force their will on the opponent. If you took any player who is accustomed to 18+ carries a game and reduced him to half that amount, I think you would see his metrics suffer along with it. Change of pace backs are successful in part time work because they are exactly that- a change of pace that the defense isn't seeing on a regular basis, thus catching them off guard, usually through short burst quickness.

As to the rest, I just can't see it. Stewart still oozes talent. I watched the game yesterday (not intently, but enough to get a feel for it) and even I am able to tell that 90% of the issues are not Stewart related. The Panthers are very, very bad this year and it is dragging Stewart down with them. DeAngelo is able to produce slightly more (albeit not much more, mind you) because he is a slightly different player and excels in making something out of nothing and/or making people miss. That isn't Stewart's game. He needs some semblance of a hole to effectively use his talents. Right now, he doesn't have ANY holes to run through and actually has defenders meeting him in the backfield the majority of the time. Stewart is not failing the eye test and I don't for a second believe he is any less talented of a player. The reality is he hasn't even had a chance to take the eye test, since the situation around him is dragging him down so greatly.

It is laughable to call him a droppable talent in keeper or dynasty leagues (and I still think this has to be a fishing trip, but I will ablige you anyway). Even if the Panthers resign DeAngelo (or franchise him), Stewart is only 23 years old. If it takes him 3 years to finally earn a chance to start, that would still only put him at 26 and give him 3-4 years in his prime to put up numbers. As to the fishing trip droppable comment, let me just ask this- who on the waiver wire do you see has the upside, talent, potential, and pedigree that Stewart possesses?

Ok, your first argument is totally bunk since we are talking about Stewart who has only steadily received 18 or more touches for one short span in his pro career, so you can't say he is accustomed to being a feature back. Barring filling in for an injured starter he hasn't been a featured back since college. He has only seen 18 carries or more in four games his entire pro career. Just like everyone else you simply revert to name value and vague "eyeball tests" yet can't explain why the system is so adversely affecting Stewart, but not adversely effecting his running mate, who plays with the same QB, same HC, OC, Oline, and everything else every week.

You assertion that Stewart is the type of back who needs a lot of carries to work up to a good average doesn't stand up either. Check his game log from 09

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8790/g....uLYF?year=2009

He had six games where he had fewer than 18 carries and averaged over 4ypc.

As for who he could be dropped for, I don't know who is on your WW, but I'd say that guys like Ringer, Choice, and Karim could end up having better 2011 seasons than Stewart.

You could be right about not having holes to run through, who knows. But saying that DWill doesn't need holes and Stewart does to get anything done is silly IMO. All RBs need to have some kind of hole to be effective, and if anything Stewart is supposed to be the more powerful back of the two. Your explanation seems to suggest the opposite, even though at the same time you're saying that Stewart is a power back, not a COP back.

So, here we are again: I'm being called crazy and yet no one can explain how he can't succeed in this system, and DWill can. BTW, his ypc is now 2.8 compared to DWill's 4.1, so he's actually averaging closer to 1.5 ypc less than his teammate.

I did just explain to you how it is possible. The fact that you chose to dismiss it without giving it a 2nd thought is your choice, but doesn't make it any less feasible.Just because the Panthers have used Stewart as a backup/complimentary/change of pace type player doesn't mean that is what he is suited for. If you compare his numbers as a backup to his numbers when he has had the opportunity to start, he is far more productive as a starter. This is the nature of all bellcow type running backs- they require volume to effectively use their talents, at least to some degree.

As for your assertion that all running backs have to have some kind of hole to run through to be effective...huh? Players like DeAngelo, Jamaal Charles, Barry Sanders, etc... make their name by freelancing and improvising when there is nothing there. Players like Jonathan Stewart, Emmit Smith, Chris Johnson, etc... make their name by taking a small hole and burying the defense with their speed/power/moves/etc... They are COMPLETELY different players that bring completely different skillsets to the table. Lets not for a second begin to think that DeAngelo is having a good season, because he is not, but he is having a slightly less bad season than Stewart because #1 he is getting more consistent work and #2 he is a player better suited to make something out of the complete nothing the offensive line is giving him.

As to reverting to name value, no I'm not at all. Stewart has not officially become a starting running back in the NFL yet, so he has essentially no name value. However, he DOES pass the eyeball test and he DOES possess a lot of pedigree and measureables that make it likely he will succeed in the NFL. Not being capable of using an eyeball test to determine the skill level of a player will more often than not leave you significantly behind the curve in this hobby and cause you to miss out on far too many talented players that just don't have the name value yet (this is even more important in dynasty leagues). I concede he has looked less impressive this year than the previous seasons. However, I also believe the majority of that is due to the pieces around him rather than Stewart himself.

Come on, really? Backups can't have name value? Do I need to bring out the list?It depends on your league. If you can carry a player for a year or two without needing any dependable production, even for a fill-in start, then of course keep him. If your league has shallow rosters and you absolutely have to use your entire roster, then there might be some options out there that are better suited to production in 2011. Can you honestly say you would rather have him in dynasty than Peyton Hillis? Ask the Hillis owner in your dynasty league if he would trade him straight for Stewart.

I don't put it all on Stewart: he's obviously playing on a terrible team for a HC that has completely checked out and an OC that has suffered a particular amnesia that only relates to having an effective run game. But to ingnore the warning signs that are coming from him and him alone (I'm sorry but averaging 2.1 ypc two games in a row with 14 carries is a HUGE ONE) is major folly. This is a guy who is constantly battling nagging injuries and has been since college. Is it really that inconceivable that he's lost it? Especially in light of recent performance?

 

[Warpig]

Career Stats

Rushing Year Team G Rush Yds Y/G Avg 100 Yd TD

2008 CAR 16 183 833 52.1 4.6 2 10

2009 CAR 16 221 1133 70.8 5.1 5 10

LOL! You guys are a bunch of drama queens. Sure, in a redraft he may be droppable due to the situation of their team as a whole. They aren't producing any fantasy studs this year. But the guy is 23 years old and is capable of being a work horse for a team. His O-line and QB situation right now is abysmal as well as the coaching. There is no way you would get value for the guy if you trade him in a dynasty so you might as well hold onto the guy and hope that he gets traded or DWill fades away or gets injured. He has big play ability and obviously has a nose for the end zone. This year is a bizarro year in the NFL. Who would have ever thought the Chiefs, Bucs, and Rams would be doing as well as they have? Who thought Dallas and Minnesota would be as horrible as they are? And how about New Orleans and Indianapolis struggling as they have? I say write this season off if you must (even though there is still half a season left) and hold onto JStew for future use unless you can find someone willing to give market value.

 

[Clifford]

Career Stats  Rushing Receiving Fumb. KO Ret Punt Ret  Year Team G Rush Yds Y/G Avg 100 Yd TD Rec Yds Y/G Avg 100 Yd TD Lost Yds TD Yds TD  2008 CAR 16 183 833 52.1 4.6 2 10 8 47 2.9 5.9 0 0 1 349 0 0 0  2009 CAR 16 221 1133 70.8 5.1 5 10 18 139 8.7 7.7 0 1 2 17 0 0 0

LOL! You guys are a bunch of drama queens. Sure, in a redraft he may be droppable due to the situation of their team as a whole. They aren't producing any fantasy studs this year. But the guy is 23 years old and is capable of being a work horse for a team. His O-line and QB situation right now is abysmal as well as the coaching. There is no way you would get value for the guy if you trade him in a dynasty so you might as well hold onto the guy and hope that he gets traded or DWill fades away or gets injured. He has big play ability and obviously has a nose for the end zone. This year is a bizarro year in the NFL. Who would have ever thought the Chiefs, Bucs, and Rams would be doing as well as they have? Who thought Dallas and Minnesota would be as horrible as they are? And how about New Orleans and Indianapolis struggling as they have? I say write this season off if you must (even though there is still half a season left) and hold onto JStew for future use unless you can find someone willing to give market value.

 

[Herm23]

Come on, really? Backups can't have name value? Do I need to bring out the list?It depends on your league. If you can carry a player for a year or two without needing any dependable production, even for a fill-in start, then of course keep him. If your league has shallow rosters and you absolutely have to use your entire roster, then there might be some options out there that are better suited to production in 2011. Can you honestly say you would rather have him in dynasty than Peyton Hillis? Ask the Hillis owner in your dynasty league if he would trade him straight for Stewart.I don't put it all on Stewart: he's obviously playing on a terrible team for a HC that has completely checked out and an OC that has suffered a particular amnesia that only relates to having an effective run game. But to ingnore the warning signs that are coming from him and him alone (I'm sorry but averaging 2.1 ypc two games in a row with 14 carries is a HUGE ONE) is major folly. This is a guy who is constantly battling nagging injuries and has been since college. Is it really that inconceivable that he's lost it? Especially in light of recent performance?

- Backups don't have name value as it pertains to frame of your argument. People aren't going to overrate a backup running back who has never had a full time starting job simply based on name.- I admit I don't play in any leagues that force you to use your entire roster on a weekly basis and I can concede that in this situation, there may be better options than Stewart. However, since I'm guessing leagues without benches generally dont exist, that means that in 99.9% of leagues, Stewart is ABSOLUTELY, UNQUESTIONABLY, AND WITHOUT A DOUBT ROSTERABLE.- I would take Jonathan Stewart over Peyton Hillis on my dynasty league 100 out of 100 times. I just emailed the Hillis owner in my league if he would trade Peyton Hillis for Stewart (I own neither) and he said he wouldn't be able to get to the accept button fast enough. I think you will find the VAST majority of Hillis owners would ship him for Stewart in an nanosecond. - I'm sorry, but a 2 game sample size is a completely trivial and insignificant sample size and basing dynasty decisions on a 2 game sampling is flat out bad process at its finest.- Yes, it is very hard for me to to believe that a player at the age of 23 simply loses it essentially overnight. It can happen in baseball, which is so much mental, but really doesn't happen in football, where its mostly physical.- I'm more convinced than ever that your postings are both a fishing trip and simple venting over a dissapointing performance by Stewart yesterday, so I will stop giving you fodder now.

 

[Clifford]

Come on, really? Backups can't have name value? Do I need to bring out the list?

It depends on your league. If you can carry a player for a year or two without needing any dependable production, even for a fill-in start, then of course keep him. If your league has shallow rosters and you absolutely have to use your entire roster, then there might be some options out there that are better suited to production in 2011. Can you honestly say you would rather have him in dynasty than Peyton Hillis? Ask the Hillis owner in your dynasty league if he would trade him straight for Stewart.

I don't put it all on Stewart: he's obviously playing on a terrible team for a HC that has completely checked out and an OC that has suffered a particular amnesia that only relates to having an effective run game. But to ingnore the warning signs that are coming from him and him alone (I'm sorry but averaging 2.1 ypc two games in a row with 14 carries is a HUGE ONE) is major folly. This is a guy who is constantly battling nagging injuries and has been since college. Is it really that inconceivable that he's lost it? Especially in light of recent performance?

- Backups don't have name value as it pertains to frame of your argument. People aren't going to overrate a backup running back who has never had a full time starting job simply based on name.OK, you made me do it. Dwill behind Foster, drafted ahead despite no production to go on

Sjax over Faulk, despite no production to go on

MJD over Fred, despite no production to go on

Gore behind Barlow, despite no production to go on

ANYONE can have name value. Name value is completely indpendent of anything else because it is name value.

- I admit I don't play in any leagues that force you to use your entire roster on a weekly basis and I can concede that in this situation, there may be better options than Stewart. However, since I'm guessing leagues without benches generally dont exist, that means that in 99.9% of leagues, Stewart is ABSOLUTELY, UNQUESTIONABLY, AND WITHOUT A DOUBT ROSTERABLE.

My dynasty league has 25 roster spots and 15 starters.

- I would take Jonathan Stewart over Peyton Hillis on my dynasty league 100 out of 100 times. I just emailed the Hillis owner in my league if he would trade Peyton Hillis for Stewart (I own neither) and he said he wouldn't be able to get to the accept button fast enough. I think you will find the VAST majority of Hillis owners would ship him for Stewart in an nanosecond.

Suit yourself. I'll check back on this at the end of 2011 and see how smart that looked. And I guarantee if I am wrong I will come back and say so.

- I'm sorry, but a 2 game sample size is a completely trivial and insignificant sample size and basing dynasty decisions on a 2 game sampling is flat out bad process at its finest.

I'm only using 2 games to emphasize that he is doing worse, not better, with more carries. I am using this entire season as my sample. Which is still small in dynasty terms I admit. No one has yet made one comment on the possibility that dealing with nagging injuries his entire college and pro career might actually be affecting him. Seems like cognitive dissonance if you ask me.

- Yes, it is very hard for me to to believe that a player at the age of 23 simply loses it essentially overnight. It can happen in baseball, which is so much mental, but really doesn't happen in football, where its mostly physical.

Not overnight, over the course of his entire career. Including college. It's just hard to see since it's coming on the heels of his best season.

- I'm more convinced than ever that your postings are both a fishing trip and simple venting over a dissapointing performance by Stewart yesterday, so I will stop giving you fodder now.

You really think I would still be posting here to say "I got you kinda!"??

He's been injured his whole career. My argument is that those injuries have finally taken their toll. No matter what you think of that hypothesis his 2.8 ypc average is staring you in the face.

 

[Sigfawn]

Yes he is.

No he's not.

Sure he is. His talent has not diminished. He's not a transcendent talent like Peterson but he's better than the starting back for at least half the league. I think he's a great buy in dynasty and keeper leagues. He gets a reboot next season.

I thought this season he got a reboot?Dwill isn't going anywhere. And Stewy isn't exactly pushing him for the starting gig. Stewy has gotten a reboot every year he's been in the league and he still sucks.

I see you don't know much about Carolina, the coaching staff, the run game, the RB's, or they're previous production....

I actually live in Charlotte and I'm forced to listen to "Panther" talk constantly.

 

[Sigfawn]

I thought this season he got a reboot?

Dwill isn't going anywhere. And Stewy isn't exactly pushing him for the starting gig. Stewy has gotten a reboot every year he's been in the league and he still sucks.

Did Williams sign a contract extension or what are you talking about?

Who is going to give a 28 year old RB a huge contract? The Panthers need him. He's the face of the franchise, probably their best player. If he left they'd have to draft a RB who wouldn't be as good.I've read a few articles and the consensus is that Dwill isn't going anywhere and he's worth more to the Panthers then anyone else.

Not to mention Stewy is always hurt or sucking. People who think Dwill is leaving are Stewart owners. If the Panthers were going to cut bait they would have dealt him for a 3rd/4th this year. But that never made any sense anyway.

On paper the RBs are the Panthers strength, they're not going to break it up so give them yet another weakness to address in the draft. They're a good combo and when they were last good Stewart/Dwill were running over the league. That's probably what they want to get back to.

Funny thing about that statement is that D-will has sucked all year and he's hurt... lolActually, there will be a coaching change in the off season.. So, "getting back to" would depend on the new staff and what they used to do.

Like I said, it's unlikely Dwill is going anywhere. I'd do some more research on the matter.

 

[Sigfawn]

I thought this season he got a reboot?

Dwill isn't going anywhere. And Stewy isn't exactly pushing him for the starting gig. Stewy has gotten a reboot every year he's been in the league and he still sucks.

Did Williams sign a contract extension or what are you talking about?

Who is going to give a 28 year old RB a huge contract? The Panthers need him. He's the face of the franchise, probably their best player. If he left they'd have to draft a RB who wouldn't be as good.I've read a few articles and the consensus is that Dwill isn't going anywhere and he's worth more to the Panthers then anyone else.

Not to mention Stewy is always hurt or sucking. People who think Dwill is leaving are Stewart owners. If the Panthers were going to cut bait they would have dealt him for a 3rd/4th this year. But that never made any sense anyway.

On paper the RBs are the Panthers strength, they're not going to break it up so give them yet another weakness to address in the draft. They're a good combo and when they were last good Stewart/Dwill were running over the league. That's probably what they want to get back to.

I kind of agree, which is another reason I've been trying to dump Stewart to the Dwill owner in my dynasty. Everyone always assumes a good RB duo will split in a trade scenario, but it rarely happens. The thing is, RBs are a dime a dozen so no owner is willing to give much in trade. Not to mention, its not looking like either one is performing like a stud this year so it would be way too risky for CAR to assume they still have two studs and get rid of one of them.

By the time Carolina is fully rebuilt under new leadership, D-Will will be 30 years old.... They're better off getting what they can for him now, because next season isn't contending either...

You realize the trade deadline has passed right? *lol* You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[packersfan]

From RotoWorld. Decide for yourselves if Stewart is throwing his O Line under the bus.

Jonathan Stewart seemed to blame his 14-carry, 30-yard performance in Sunday's loss to St. Louis on the Panthers' offensive line.

"Did you see any holes?" Stewart said Monday. "As an offensive unit, we're just not making enough plays. Point blank." With RT Jeff Otah (knee) not due back before Week 10 at the earliest, Carolina will continue to struggle to create running lanes. The Panthers currently rank 28th in rushing offense.

Source: ESPN.com

 

[offdee]

People said I was nuts for saying McFadden was a better pro prospect than Stewart.

Interesting since McFadden was the 4th overall player selected in the NFL Draft and the consensus #1 ranked FF player in that rookie draft.

 

[Clifford]

People said I was nuts for saying McFadden was a better pro prospect than Stewart.

Interesting since McFadden was the 4th overall player selected in the NFL Draft and the consensus #1 ranked FF player in that rookie draft.

Uhh, ok. Not in my leagues and definitely not on this forum. Was that the only one you could take issue with?

 

[bweiser]

From RotoWorld. Decide for yourselves if Stewart is throwing his O Line under the bus.Jonathan Stewart seemed to blame his 14-carry, 30-yard performance in Sunday's loss to St. Louis on the Panthers' offensive line."Did you see any holes?" Stewart said Monday. "As an offensive unit, we're just not making enough plays. Point blank." With RT Jeff Otah (knee) not due back before Week 10 at the earliest, Carolina will continue to struggle to create running lanes. The Panthers currently rank 28th in rushing offense.Source: ESPN.com

Doesn't seem too bad to me. Maybe he'll get cut like Randy Moss and land somewhere he can start.

 

[Clifford]

From RotoWorld. Decide for yourselves if Stewart is throwing his O Line under the bus.Jonathan Stewart seemed to blame his 14-carry, 30-yard performance in Sunday's loss to St. Louis on the Panthers' offensive line."Did you see any holes?" Stewart said Monday. "As an offensive unit, we're just not making enough plays. Point blank." With RT Jeff Otah (knee) not due back before Week 10 at the earliest, Carolina will continue to struggle to create running lanes. The Panthers currently rank 28th in rushing offense.Source: ESPN.com

At least he sounds pissed. We know he cares, even if he isn't willing to take any of the blame himself. Classy.

 

[iMobile]

Panthers suck, is there really any need for more arguments here? It's a lost season, nothing to gain from either D-Will or Stewart this year, unless it's in the trade market.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

By the time Carolina is fully rebuilt under new leadership, D-Will will be 30 years old.... They're better off getting what they can for him now, because next season isn't contending either...

In this era where teams go from worst to first all the time, I don't think this statement is true at all. I think the past 10 years has shown that any team can turn it around from one year to the next (except Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit, apparently...)

For every 1 you can name, if you can name even one who didn't take a couple of years to rebuild, I'll give you 20 who didn't..Name 1 team who went from worst to first....

The Panthers are going to be bringing in a new head coach in 2011, who will undoubtedly be changing the dynamic of the team and will likely want to make it his own team which usually includes personnel changes.... I'll bet anything you'd like that the Panthers don't make it to the play-offs next season... And I'm pretty sure D-Williams will not be signing another long term contract with the panthers. This is the last season of his current contract by the way...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

Insanity....Definitely a fishing trip here...

 

[Liquid Tension]

He's definitely droppable. I'm trying to see if I can get anything from the DWill owner first. Carolina abandons the run at the slightest provocation. Also, Stewarts injuries are obviously finally taking a toll. I posted earlier that he no longer had "it" and this definitely showed that in a big way. Maybe their line is just that putrid but when you are a backup and averaging a full yard less than the starter that is a major warning sign.

I agree. The Panthers' line clearly has major issues but Stewart doesn't look like the same guy we saw the previous two seasons in my opinion. What concerns me now is his Keeper/Dynasty value is taking a hit. Schefter reported a few weeks ago that he expects the Panthers to franchise Williams. If that happens, Stewart's value doesn't get any higher. Based on how bad he looked yesterday the Panthers may be even more inclined to keep Williams.

Guys always look bad behind crappy lines. last year I posted at nauseum that while LT is getting a little older, he was not nearly as bad as everyone was saying and that nobody would look good running there...This year he looks better behind a good run blocking line. Stewart will be fine if he can get behind and average line. BTW, If Carolina franchises Dwill while keeping Stewart they are an awful franchise. They need so much more help

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I actually live in Charlotte and I'm forced to listen to "Panther" talk constantly.

No offense intended here, I live in Charlotte as well...You talking about 610am?... lolIf that's where you get your info, we're not having a real educated discussion...You do know this is the last season of D-Wills contract right? If he stays, he'll either be signing a new long term contract, or he'll be franchise tagged.. Do you see Williams accepting a contract with Carolina in an open free agent market? Do you see Carolina out bidding everyone else? Do you see a new staff coming in and dropping a franchise tag on a 29 year old RB?....

 

[Frank Costanza's Lawyer]

No I really think Stewart is droppable in dynasty as well. I can't come up with a single excuse for him other than he simply isn't any good anymore. He's been injured all through college and ever offseason he's been a pro and I think it has finally caught up with him and he can't run anymore.

I've been saying it for a while, been called crazy multiple times, and when I ask the people who call me crazy how a COP/Backup is averaging only 3 ypc while the guy in front of him is averaging north of 4 and I never get an answer. That's always where it ends.

So if you have an answer to that question I'd like to hear it, because no one else who laughs at the thought of him being done has had one.

Insanity....Definitely a fishing trip here...

Even if he actually believed Stewart doesnt deserve a roster spot on anyones team, the other 11 other owners in a league would pay something for him.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You realize the trade deadline has passed right? *lol* You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

The only way he stays in Carolina is if he signs a new long term contract or is tagged.... If he leaves as a free agent they will receive compensatory picks.. If he is franchise tagged, they can trade him or receive compensation from the team that signs him out of the tag..So, actually, I do know what I'm talking about, but I need to explain things to you evidently..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

People said I was nuts for saying McFadden was a better pro prospect than Stewart.

Interesting since McFadden was the 4th overall player selected in the NFL Draft and the consensus #1 ranked FF player in that rookie draft.

Uhh, ok. Not in my leagues and definitely not on this forum. Was that the only one you could take issue with?

Yea, in this forum, McFadden was the predominant #1 rookie pick that season... At least in Dynasty... Pretty much everywhere in dynasty..

 

[Clifford]

So none of you have ever heard of a player who had one good year and disappeared? Most of you are acting like this has never happened

 

[ft_ball_fn]

From RotoWorld. Decide for yourselves if Stewart is throwing his O Line under the bus.

Jonathan Stewart seemed to blame his 14-carry, 30-yard performance in Sunday's loss to St. Louis on the Panthers' offensive line.

"Did you see any holes?" Stewart said Monday. "As an offensive unit, we're just not making enough plays. Point blank." With RT Jeff Otah (knee) not due back before Week 10 at the earliest, Carolina will continue to struggle to create running lanes. The Panthers currently rank 28th in rushing offense.

Source: ESPN.com

This is the only useful piece of info in this whole thread... Any CAR homers think the running game turns around when Otah returns? You'd think one guy couldn't be the lynchpin for an entire offensive line/running game... but Otah is pretty huge/good isn't he?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So none of you have ever heard of a player who had one good year and disappeared? Most of you are acting like this has never happened

If you can show me 1 real dynasty league this year or next where Stewart is on the WW, I'll buy you lunch... It won't happen... You either know that and your fishing, or you're just insane...