Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
New Kickoff Rules (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Schmo
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
Looks like a blast. Little confusing.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
This is what it will look like per Schefter: https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1772615947922149879?s=20
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
It looks like the rules are structured to strongly encourage returns. If a kicker can consistently pop one high to the 5-10 yard line, that's likely going to be consistently better than a touchback which comes out to the 35. But this is just guess work from me based on my interpretation of the rules.
The article posted in the OP said a TB in the end zone was brought out to the 30 yd line. Is that wrong?
Max Power
Footballguy
A ball that lands in the endzone through the air is brought out to the 30. A ball that hits the ground before the end zone and goes into it is brought out to the 20.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
is it just me or don't I remember them changing the rule so that there were less returns....because.....you know....they were the most dangerous play in football.....but now we are changing them so there are more returns...... 
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I believe I saw that teams have to declare that they want to try an onside kick, so no surprises to fool the receiving team. IIRC, the kicking team would use the onside kick alignment rules for that. Not sure what happens if the kicking team chips it over the mob of people at midfield or if they can't do that in the new rules.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The method to the madness is that neither the coverage team nor the runner will have enough time to generate a head of steam, so theoretically, there would be fewer injuries. I'm not sure I buy that, but kickoffs had become pretty irrelevant with all the touchbacks and the newly added fair catch rule.is it just me or don't I remember them changing the rule so that there were less returns....because.....you know....they were the most dangerous play in football.....but now we are changing them so there are more returns......
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
It looks like some confusion between the AP story in OP and the Ari Menov tweet, which claims that kicks that go into the end zone in the air or sail out the back are brought out to the 35.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That was my first thought.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
is it just me or don't I remember them changing the rule so that there were less returns....because.....you know....they were the most dangerous play in football.....but now we are changing them so there are more returns......
From the NFL's perspective the thing that made it dangerous was that the kicking team was sprinting down the field at full speed and then crashing into a blocker or return man with tons of speed/force.
The quick solution was just to eliminate the play by making most kicks a touchback.
But now they're looking for a better solution where kickoffs aren't a dead play, but you don't have guys crashing into each other at full speed. So in this setup the kicking team and blockers are only a few yards apart at the start of the play so they're engaging at a much more reasonable speed and not slamming into each other at 100mph.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I think the point is that it incentivizes the kickers to NOT kick the ball all the way into the end zone.
It's incentivizing the kicking team to create returns. The touchback at the 20 if the ball rolls into the endzone is clearly designed so that the return team can't just let the ball roll into the endzone to get the ball at the 30. If the kicker kicks it short (which is beneficial to the kicking team), you have to return it.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
From the Schefter tweet it looks like the ball has to land inside the 20 or it is a penalty similar to kicking the ball out of bounds. So you can't just pooch it right over the blockers but if it bounces inside the 20 it's a live ball.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Sounds really stupid
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I meant for an onside kick. With the new rules, the kicking team has to tell the refs and the receiving team they are trying an onside kick and then lineup up like they have been doing in recent years. But since the receiving team knows it is coming, why bother putting anyone way back to receive a normal kickoff? Just pull everyone up to the 40- and 50- yard lines. That's where I was wondering if the kicking team can get a sand wedge out and kick over all the players near the landing zone for the onside kick and then have a race to have someone recover the bounding ball.
massraider
Footballguy
Thread on the new rules.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Not nearly as stupid as banning the hip drop tackle.
IMO this year will go down in history as a huge blunder like the replacement ref year, or the review PI year, but at several orders of magnitude greater.
Couple more points:
"Teams now have to declare when they are attempting an onside kick. They get only two per game, and neither can take place before the fourth quarter."
“With this formation, there is no such thing as a surprise onside kick, because any kick that lands short of the landing zone is a no kick and the ball goes to the 40,”
So no squibs either
"Teams now have to declare when they are attempting an onside kick. They get only two per game, and neither can take place before the fourth quarter."
“With this formation, there is no such thing as a surprise onside kick, because any kick that lands short of the landing zone is a no kick and the ball goes to the 40,”
So no squibs either
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Right, my understanding is that the most recent rules led to much more touchbacks, which were boring, but didn’t make the plays where there were returns any safer. This is an effort to actually increase safety while still generating interesting plays.is it just me or don't I remember them changing the rule so that there were less returns....because.....you know....they were the most dangerous play in football.....but now we are changing them so there are more returns......
From the NFL's perspective the thing that made it dangerous was that the kicking team was sprinting down the field at full speed and then crashing into a blocker or return man with tons of speed/force.
The quick solution was just to eliminate the play by making most kicks a touchback.
But now they're looking for a better solution where kickoffs aren't a dead play, but you don't have guys crashing into each other at full speed. So in this setup the kicking team and blockers are only a few yards apart at the start of the play so they're engaging at a much more reasonable speed and not slamming into each other at 100mph.
Will it work? I have no idea. But I’m cool with them experimenting. Officially this is only for a year
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
So if a team scores to take the lead with three seconds left, they have to do a regular kickoff and hope they can stop the return?
Or kick it out of the end zone and prevent for the hail mary, pitch plays, etc.
I've been saying RBs are often the best athletes. They played other positions in HS and some even in college. Since they're cheap, teams should find a way to use them, even if it's special teams.
Welp...it's a bit self serving for what I've said but I would absolutely add some RBs for camp if I were a GM.
Before the kick return was devalued, backs didn't usually return kicks nor did starting WRs. If they're cheap and "extra" that totally changed it.
The other addition/change I could imagine is the speedy lil buggers of the XFL. College has had a lot of tiny fast WRs that do wind up in camps but don't make teams. XFL kickoff teams have had a hard time seeing those little buggers like ol Joe Morris. I bet a few stick now.
Welp...it's a bit self serving for what I've said but I would absolutely add some RBs for camp if I were a GM.
Before the kick return was devalued, backs didn't usually return kicks nor did starting WRs. If they're cheap and "extra" that totally changed it.
The other addition/change I could imagine is the speedy lil buggers of the XFL. College has had a lot of tiny fast WRs that do wind up in camps but don't make teams. XFL kickoff teams have had a hard time seeing those little buggers like ol Joe Morris. I bet a few stick now.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
My prediction is that the hip drop rule change will be negligible, virtually unnoticeable once the players and refs adjust. This kick off thing is a major change to what is a relatively minor part of the game. I typically use the commerical-kickoff-commercial television break to take care of business, but will likely want to watch it now, at least for the first few weeks. The hard part is going to be explaining it to my father in law the first time he sees it. We're all going to have people in our group who are going to be completely unaware of this until they see it for the first time.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Why does it need to be so confusing? Just put it at the 25 like playground ball and let's roll. The only reason they don't get rid of kickoffs is almighty greed ... it gives the owners an 4 extra minutes of commercials each score to pay for Kraft's next massage yacht.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I'm all for giving it a shot. It's being implemented on a trial basis, will be revisited next year.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
That's not true anymore.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I couldn't disagree more. This is going to lead to poorer defensive performance, and very controversial, game-changing calls by the refs.
As for the kickoff rule, I do think that is going to bomb as well. I think there will be a lot of TDs initially, and then teams will ultimately start taking the touchback on the 30.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
The NFL clearly thought that there was a problem, namely that kickoffs were producing concussions at a much higher rate than any other type of play
massraider
Footballguy
It looks to me like people will be designing plays on kickoff returns, and that can be awesome. This is a new form of special teams.
AND MAYBE AT HALFTIME ANDY REID AND ANTONIO PIERCE CAN HAVE A STEEL CAGE MATCH, IS THAT WHAT'S NEXT?
AND MAYBE AT HALFTIME ANDY REID AND ANTONIO PIERCE CAN HAVE A STEEL CAGE MATCH, IS THAT WHAT'S NEXT?
massraider
Footballguy
Ha, and the Steelers sign Cordarelle, same day.
Well done.
Well done.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
There were absolutely problems with that. Tell Kevin Everett there was nothing wrong with the old style of kickoffs. He did nothing wrong and damn near died.
I get it, we may be trying too hard to get violence out of the game. I agree with that. I totally get it, and I don't want to go down the route of turning the NFL into Flag Football. However, I think some tweaks to the kickoff rules are much more sensible than outlawing a heat-of-the-moment, grab-and-drag-down play by a defender. That is totally what playing defense is all about - use all your force to stop the player from making forward progress.
I don't see how that rule change doesn't lead to a bunch of major penalties, or really bad defense/tackling.
Deamon
Footballguy
I thought they didn't go to commercial after a kickoff or maybe I'm not remembering correctly.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Totally agree. There's going to be a ton of big returns in this rule-set, until teams decide to just give the other team the ball at the 30.
Deamon
Footballguy
Some good insight from Eric Galko who was on the team that created, tested, and developed the now New NFL Kickoff. Found these things quite useful, especially from a fantasy standpoint if you get return TD points and are wondering how to adjust for your draft.
1. Overall Play Designs: The kickoff play isn’t going to be run like a previous kickoff. They'll be less value on collisions, quickness and explosiveness.Instead, it’ll likely be more closely analogous to a spaced out run play. You might even see Special Teams coaches develop into Man vs. Zone type distinctions. You'll see players pull, plays like Power/Duo, now on kickoff return! This will lead to a higher value on TE/FB-type run blocking value on return, and LB/SAF block shedding value on kickoff. Should help athlete TEs who can block (like Tip Reiman) and undersized LBs/Big Safeties (like Tyler Owens) be even more valuable now.
2. Returner Evaluations: Similar to above, returner value will be less about top end speed and burst, and more about vision and reacting. In short, more "running back attacking the hole"-type will be more valuable than vs. "receivers navigating in the open field" types. We at the XFL saw the teams with the most success had decisive, one-cut players rather than their fastest guys back there.Don’t be surprised if we see more RBs (or those with RB backgrounds) get more opportunities as returners, and for those returners to be a bit based on which “kick scheme” the team runs (man vs. zone).We could even see bigger athletic RBs (like Isaac Guerendo), be not only potential returners, but coveted options.
3. Roster Construction: For the last 5+ years, a "core special teamer" primarily meant a standout on just punt and punt return team, which amplified just gunners and returners in a big way.Now, the new NFL Kickoff heavily incentivizes every return to be a live play. That puts in 10+ more plays into real action again, and one that requires a defined skill set. That’s HUGE. Don’t be surprised if teams adjust how many at each position they carry. Carrying a 5th Tight Ends, a 78th/8th Linebackers and/or a 5th/6th Safety may be common place.
4. Learning Curve: At the XFL (2020 edition), we felt confident we’d see not only a lot of returners (as we and now the NFL rule heavily incentivizes a play happening), but a lot of big plays.But it took time for our coaches and players to be comfortable and creative, as well as address the reduced space initially.The old NFL kickoff had big lanes initially that closed up with good coverage. This new kickoffs will have more narrow lanes, but a much greater opportunity to turn those lanes into big plays and touchdowns.It may just take until the second half of the NFL season for it to happen. But when it does, don't be surprised if we see a MAJOR uptick in return touchdowns.
1. Overall Play Designs: The kickoff play isn’t going to be run like a previous kickoff. They'll be less value on collisions, quickness and explosiveness.Instead, it’ll likely be more closely analogous to a spaced out run play. You might even see Special Teams coaches develop into Man vs. Zone type distinctions. You'll see players pull, plays like Power/Duo, now on kickoff return! This will lead to a higher value on TE/FB-type run blocking value on return, and LB/SAF block shedding value on kickoff. Should help athlete TEs who can block (like Tip Reiman) and undersized LBs/Big Safeties (like Tyler Owens) be even more valuable now.
2. Returner Evaluations: Similar to above, returner value will be less about top end speed and burst, and more about vision and reacting. In short, more "running back attacking the hole"-type will be more valuable than vs. "receivers navigating in the open field" types. We at the XFL saw the teams with the most success had decisive, one-cut players rather than their fastest guys back there.Don’t be surprised if we see more RBs (or those with RB backgrounds) get more opportunities as returners, and for those returners to be a bit based on which “kick scheme” the team runs (man vs. zone).We could even see bigger athletic RBs (like Isaac Guerendo), be not only potential returners, but coveted options.
3. Roster Construction: For the last 5+ years, a "core special teamer" primarily meant a standout on just punt and punt return team, which amplified just gunners and returners in a big way.Now, the new NFL Kickoff heavily incentivizes every return to be a live play. That puts in 10+ more plays into real action again, and one that requires a defined skill set. That’s HUGE. Don’t be surprised if teams adjust how many at each position they carry. Carrying a 5th Tight Ends, a 78th/8th Linebackers and/or a 5th/6th Safety may be common place.
4. Learning Curve: At the XFL (2020 edition), we felt confident we’d see not only a lot of returners (as we and now the NFL rule heavily incentivizes a play happening), but a lot of big plays.But it took time for our coaches and players to be comfortable and creative, as well as address the reduced space initially.The old NFL kickoff had big lanes initially that closed up with good coverage. This new kickoffs will have more narrow lanes, but a much greater opportunity to turn those lanes into big plays and touchdowns.It may just take until the second half of the NFL season for it to happen. But when it does, don't be surprised if we see a MAJOR uptick in return touchdowns.
Just seeing this within like a minute of posting in the Steelers thread that his signing was probably good with this move.
Saw a comment yesterday from Jim Nagy about Malachi Corley specifically but really about any receiver, and guess we could say runner, with big time YAC ability getting a boost in their stock due to the attempted elimination of the hip drop tackle.
Just got me thinking a lot of those players with that skill set are good returner and they all might have just got a nice stock bump in last few days.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No, what is stupid is a touchback on 98% of the kickoffs
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So move the kickoff spot back 5 yards
JohnnyU
Footballguy
No, it was the the change a few years ago that rendered kickoffs meaningless. It wasn’t like that before back in the day, so yes, anything to improve what they have now. I was at the point of saying remove kickoffs and just start at the 25, because that’s what they were basically doing anyway.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
“Fixing something until it breaks” sounds like a good title for the eventual documentary on Goddell’s texture.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
It was already broken. They did that a few years ago.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Right. The main kickoff change was in 2011 when Goddell was also commish.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
By far the worst thing about kickoffs.
This was more due to Arthur Smith than the rule change
