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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
- Start date
10 - sad by the loss, but ecstatic with where the team is, and the process it went through to get to this point.
I think the casual fan looks at the WC as a 3-week tournament every four years. In reality it is a two and half year tournament - which will kick off again next year. Watching the Finals is like seeing the tip of the ice berg. Every team that made it to the finals accomplished something already. The next step is getting out of the group - some easier than others, but that is the next milestone for teams to judge themselves by. In 2010, the US had an easy group, in 2014, the US had an incredibly difficult group - with two top-5 teams in the world. Getting out of that group is a huge accomplishment - for Germany also.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
his general thoughts are similar to mine (not sure if you saw my response) but our numbers were significantly different.
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Insoxicated
My thoughts? 7 or 8.
We could have done a little better, but not much so with the talent we have right now.
The good news about this popularity is while youth soccer is huge and growing quickly... until the sport has a mainstream cache', the US will struggle to field a world-class team.
This team performed as well as we could expect them to... and, more importantly, they created tremendous buzz around the sport making strides toward that end goal of being able to grow our own top tier talent.
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I am becoming less unique every day.
But, I acknowledge that it takes a deeper appreciation for the sport, and how the WC is set-up. For the casual fan, I can understand where they may be disappointed in the results - particularly if they consider how close the US came to winning both the Portugal and Belgium games. Losing is never fun, but for me, I am excited to see the US in position to win these games, and the trajectory of the team is definitely pointing up.
As some have alluded to - we are in position, and in a federation, where we really should not be judging ourselves on qualifying for the WC finals, instead we now should be focused on advancing. Given the politics of FIFA, advancing is almost always going to be difficult unless and until the US can become a seeded team. [top 8 teams will generally go in one pot, European teams will be in another pot, leaving the US looking at a "Group of Death" in almost every scenario that follows].
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I don't have it in a location I can link to. If someone has a generic storage location I can send it to them and they can link to it. I can tell you that the US was 10-2-4 in qualifying (w-d-l) scoring 29 and allowing 13.
So for the entire cycle they were 11-3-6 34:19
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I don't have it in a location I can link to. If someone has a generic storage location I can send it to them and they can link to it. I can tell you that the US was 10-2-4 in qualifying (w-d-l) scoring 29 and allowing 13.
So for the entire cycle they were 11-3-6 34:19
Corporation
Angry Bovine
Celph Titled
Footballguy
8 for me.
For the people who don't follow the sport year-round or at the club level, it's difficult to emphasize how much more talent Portugal, Germany, and Belgium have than the US. Hopefully we'll get to that level someday, and I think we're headed in the right direction overall.
There's a site called transfermarkt that comes up with an estimate of how much a player is "worth" if he were to be transferred. Look at the prices for the national teams of Portugal, Germany, and Belgium.
Now try and estimate a number that the United States is at first, and then click to see where we are: USA.
I want the US to get better, but I'm also realistic that there's a long, long way to go.
For the people who don't follow the sport year-round or at the club level, it's difficult to emphasize how much more talent Portugal, Germany, and Belgium have than the US. Hopefully we'll get to that level someday, and I think we're headed in the right direction overall.
There's a site called transfermarkt that comes up with an estimate of how much a player is "worth" if he were to be transferred. Look at the prices for the national teams of Portugal, Germany, and Belgium.
Now try and estimate a number that the United States is at first, and then click to see where we are: USA.
I want the US to get better, but I'm also realistic that there's a long, long way to go.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I'd place my satisfaction level at a 7. Now, I'm a soccer nerd (its pretty much the only sport I give a #### about anymore), but I'm a guy who's pretty chill about results and who recognizes that short tournaments are funny things. I wanted the US to play quality competition and I wanted them to play in a way that did not embarrass them. That happened. I got to see Clint Dempsey score a sick goal. I got to see one of my favorite MLS players have a good tournament in Kyle Beckerman. I got to see three young players in Brooks, Yedlin, and Green who I will invest way too much hope and enthusiasm in for the next four years. I also got to drink a lot of cocktails, which I always enjoy.
And now that the US is out, I only have 8 great teams and countless other cool subplots to follow.
And now that the US is out, I only have 8 great teams and countless other cool subplots to follow.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
This qualifying talk got me thinking... there was a point in qualifying where we were losing to Guatemala and if the result held, we would've been out even before the hex. How much different is the USMNT and the state of soccer in this country today if that happens?
Celph Titled
Footballguy
It would've set things back, but I don't think it would've killed it dead. France didn't exactly cruise through their qualifying either, it happens.
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Insoxicated
Native
Footballguy
I hate football analogies but they may be helpful given the lens that many people are looking through.
If youre Ole Miss playing in the SEC, how do you define success/failure? By winning/losing the SEC West? SEC? National Championship? Cant imagine that most fans do, because theyre going to end up miserable and disinterested. But thats not how sports works. Undedogs view success by playing better, improving upon the previous years results, challenging the big dogs and knocking some Tier One teams off along the way. The journey is nearly as fun as the destintion. Ole Miss may finish 3-4 in the SEC West but if they knock off LSU and take Alabama down to the wire, Im sure fans will say they had a heck of a year. And of course, of course, they hope they can do even better the next time around.
I view the USMNT in the same light. And I really liked what I saw. In the absence of winning or advancing deep (both of which I desparately wanted to happen), I wanted to see palpable improvement from the US squad such that were able to compete consistently with the best teams in the world. I thought we did that in this Cup. Beat Ghana. Dominated the #4 team in the world in Portugal. Gave Belgium everything they could handle. I wanted to see our young players make big strides. I wanted us to try and dominate possession, which we showed in glimpses vs the Portugese and Belgians. There was a whole lot of positive here and we (as a sports community) had a ton of fun watching. Ask England or Italy if they feel the same way.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Brazil/Germany would be a semi. Them meeting in the final isn't possible. Oh, another thing the new people might find entertaining ... The third place match.
The losers of the semifinal games play for third place the day before the championship game.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
this is why us old timers absolutely hate the semi final round of qualifying. The Hex is so much easier to manage even with better teams in it. There have been a couple of times we have been on the edge of going out before the hex and it would have been beyond brutal.
I loved WDCROB's suggestion if CONCACAF get 4 slots next time.
Seed the 4 WC winners into the final Oct round and let the next best 4 teams qualifying through the normal small groups.
The in the Oct, you have 14 games (7 home, 7 away) and the top 4 move on. That appears to be the best system for the US and allows teams to recover from a bad start, where a group of 4 can get dicey.
I was crapping my pants when last time CONCACAF was rumored to think about 2 final groups of 4 where top 2 go on but luckily FIFA kept CONCACAF at 3.5 instead of 4.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
There's also a part of me that's not even sure I'd enjoy it if the US were a major soccer power. One of the things I like about the World Cup is that I'm watching for the Nats, but I'm also watching God knows how many players that I follow because of their club career. I think I'd hate watching the World Cup if I were English. It's like a little morality play with new pantomime villains every four years.
I imagine its like they way we watch the Olympics. Where we're actually concerned with the medal count and whether Russia or Germany or China finishes above us. I kind of hate that. I don't want to feel like my national esteem is concerned with whether a 16 year old girl nails her dismount.
I imagine its like they way we watch the Olympics. Where we're actually concerned with the medal count and whether Russia or Germany or China finishes above us. I kind of hate that. I don't want to feel like my national esteem is concerned with whether a 16 year old girl nails her dismount.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I wonder just how many people who think the US failed in this WC even have the slightest clue how close we were to going out in the first round of qualifying?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
that is a strange analogy. Most US people expect US to do well in the Olympics. I don't think even the most arrogant English fan expects that they will do well at the WC. Sure they are disappointed when they go out but it would be nothing compared to say Brazil going out early IMO in terms of what the local fan bases think.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
JB, you should be pretty happy with the result you're getting versus the investment you're making in the sport. Generic you, of course. We simply do not make the grinding physical and emotional investment of identifying and preparing elite talent for international futbol that other nations do.
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Eephus
Footballguy
I'd say a 7. The net result is the same as 2010 but I think the competition was stiffer this time out. There's been four more years of improvement on the MNT and MLS levels. Time will tell if these have been four years well spent on the development front. Some of it is surely that it's Klinsmann's nature to inspire more optimism than Bob Bradley but perception is always part of the equation, particularly for a team that plays so few competitive games. There are some exciting young players in the pipeline but we've seen that before. That's really not the responsibility of the national team; you can't blame US Soccer for the failure of guys like Adu and Jovan Kirovski.
There's been a steady rising of the tide for soccer in this country since WC 1994. I think that's a better measure of its success than people who are waiting for some kind of quantum leap.
Sand
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
Oh I hear ya... not unlike dynasty football. Still.. guy likely has several good year left in him. I dunno... just seems way low for an elite keeper.
getting out of that group made this WC an unquestioned success for me.
US had advanced out of the group stage in 3 of the last 4 WC finals. That's a clear sign that we aren't just lucky to get there anymore and are truly starting to make up ground on the world powers IMO.
Compare the US performance with a team like Spain or England. If the US had flamed out like those guys, everybody would use it as evidence that we haven't grown at all. No shame losing to a better team in the round of 16. That game against Portugal would have obviously felt a lot better if they had won, but it was still one of the best games I can recall seeing the US men play.
Pretty excited about where we are now and where we are headed.
US had advanced out of the group stage in 3 of the last 4 WC finals. That's a clear sign that we aren't just lucky to get there anymore and are truly starting to make up ground on the world powers IMO.
Compare the US performance with a team like Spain or England. If the US had flamed out like those guys, everybody would use it as evidence that we haven't grown at all. No shame losing to a better team in the round of 16. That game against Portugal would have obviously felt a lot better if they had won, but it was still one of the best games I can recall seeing the US men play.
Pretty excited about where we are now and where we are headed.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Personally I'd love to see those worlds collide. I knew Belgium's team almost better than the U.S. team and that didn't feel right. If I could watch Bayern play Chelsea in a CL semi and see 4 Americans out there, it would make that game better and following the USMNT easier. Win-win.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Once the Bundesliga comes to Fox next year this should be much easier.
Between the Bundesliga, MLS and Liga MX we should be able to watch a fairly large majority of US player play at club level.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Don't leave out that three of the four games were exciting as hell at the end. You could play 10 games and not get one with as good a finale as those three.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
That's a good point. Yesterday's game was one of the better ones in the tournament for neutrals. The Ghana game was entertaining although the US seemed on the back foot. The game in Manaus was a lot better than you'd expect given the circumstances.
It's a given that 31 countries are going to go away unhappy. A lot of the teeth gnashing in the English media has been about how they went out more than where they went out. In spite of fieldng a more attacking setup, all three of their games were dismal.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Going in I was hoping for a good showing, playing good games and keeping them competitive despite the better talent in Portugal and Germany. I felt a win vs Ghana was necessary and if we could draw one of the other two and not get beat by 3 or 4 goals it would be a solid wc. A 1-1-1 record and getting out of the group just made it all that better and nearly making the quarters gives me hope for the future.
Over the years my expectations have changed. This is basically how I look at it....
1. Hey we qualified (1990, 1994 by virtue of hosting)
2. we better qualify (1998, 2002, 2006)
3. Competitive in the group, maybe advance if we get an easier draw (2010, 2014)
With this cup (2014), I feel like up next is the feeling that any teams drawn with us know its going to be a fight and we should advance to the knockouts no matter what group we are in, group of death or group of life....
as that becomes the norm, that leads to thoughts of a long run through the knockouts followed by we can win it all.....
And yes its a simplistic view for the purposes of the message board but I think you get the point.
Over the years my expectations have changed. This is basically how I look at it....
1. Hey we qualified (1990, 1994 by virtue of hosting)
2. we better qualify (1998, 2002, 2006)
3. Competitive in the group, maybe advance if we get an easier draw (2010, 2014)
With this cup (2014), I feel like up next is the feeling that any teams drawn with us know its going to be a fight and we should advance to the knockouts no matter what group we are in, group of death or group of life....
as that becomes the norm, that leads to thoughts of a long run through the knockouts followed by we can win it all.....
And yes its a simplistic view for the purposes of the message board but I think you get the point.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
assuming we get out of the first round of qualifying that is
It is amazing how long ago being behind to Guat in the last game in the first round of qualifying seems now huh?
B Maverick
Footballguy
had forgotten about it. Would have been a major disappointment only because it sets back the building we have done since 1990....assuming we get out of the first round of qualifying that is
It is amazing how long ago being behind to Guat in the last game in the first round of qualifying seems now huh?
I guess with the rise of teams like Costa Rica along with the USA and Mexico, qualifying is going to be more difficult and wont be guaranteed. That can only help though as the USA needs to play more meaningful games vs higher competition if we want to ever be thought of as a contender for the WC title.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I for one am really looking forward to the Gold Cup next year.had forgotten about it. Would have been a major disappointment only because it sets back the building we have done since 1990....I guess with the rise of teams like Costa Rica along with the USA and Mexico, qualifying is going to be more difficult and wont be guaranteed. That can only help though as the USA needs to play more meaningful games vs higher competition if we want to ever be thought of as a contender for the WC title.assuming we get out of the first round of qualifying that is
It is amazing how long ago being behind to Guat in the last game in the first round of qualifying seems now huh?
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I don't think Brazil will make it to the final without some help from the refs. And on that score, if Brazil is eliminated, expect the nation to erupt in riots. They are simmering just below the surface.
I want Argentina to win; and I think they will get past Belgium. But the Netherlands seems to me like a more complete team, and I think they will beat Argentina--but it could go either way.
If Brazil gets past Colombia--a big if--I think Germany will beat them and make it to the final. Brazil has usually won the World Cup due to the individual brilliance of their players. I don't think they are as gifted this time.
I want Argentina to win; and I think they will get past Belgium. But the Netherlands seems to me like a more complete team, and I think they will beat Argentina--but it could go either way.
If Brazil gets past Colombia--a big if--I think Germany will beat them and make it to the final. Brazil has usually won the World Cup due to the individual brilliance of their players. I don't think they are as gifted this time.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Since the 2018 World Cup thread isn't up yet I'll put this here
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
Native
Footballguy
Stop changing the rules, guy. <_<Since the 2018 World Cup thread isn't up yet I'll put this here
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
I think its a good move that actually promotes teams trying to win in regulation - by not saving their last sub until too late in the game.Since the 2018 World Cup thread isn't up yet I'll put this here
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
been saying this for years. no brainer.Since the 2018 World Cup thread isn't up yet I'll put this here
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
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Eephus
Footballguy
The only thing I'd add would be to force teams to make the fourth sub either after 90' or 105'. There's already too much clock-related gamesmanship in extra time. A guy walking to the sideline at a snail's pace after 118' doesn't help the game.I think its a good move that actually promotes teams trying to win in regulation - by not saving their last sub until too late in the game.Since the 2018 World Cup thread isn't up yet I'll put this here
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
The Gator
Footballguy
BrilliantThe only thing I'd add would be to force teams to make the fourth sub either after 90' or 105'. There's already too much clock-related gamesmanship in extra time. A guy walking to the sideline at a snail's pace after 118' doesn't help the game.I think its a good move that actually promotes teams trying to win in regulation - by not saving their last sub until too late in the game.Since the 2018 World Cup thread isn't up yet I'll put this here
FIFA considering allowing a 4th substitute in games that go overtime.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fifa-consider-allowing-4th-sub-162753698--sow.html
I think it's not unreasonable as an overtime game goes 33% longer, having 33% more substitutes might make sense.
What do you guys think?
-QG
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B Maverick
Footballguy
http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/fifa-secretary-general-amazed-by-levels-of-world-cup-drunkenness-070214
The bolded is mine... just makes me
Eephus
Footballguy
except that...http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/fifa-secretary-general-amazed-by-levels-of-world-cup-drunkenness-070214
The bolded is mine... just makes me
The 20218 World Cup is scheduled to be held in Russia, a European state where alcohol consumption is the fourth highest in the world, according to the World Health Organziation.
sporthenry
Footballguy
But Russians can handle their alcohol better or at least aren't soccer hooligans in general.except that...http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/fifa-secretary-general-amazed-by-levels-of-world-cup-drunkenness-070214
The bolded is mine... just makes me
The 20218 World Cup is scheduled to be held in Russia, a European state where alcohol consumption is the fourth highest in the world, according to the World Health Organziation.
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Insoxicated
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