Peyton Hillis (1 Viewer)

[LargeMouthBass]

Peyton Hillis was officially diagnosed with hamstring injury via team MRI today.

Hillis Hammy Injury

Looks like we'll see Hardesty get a shot at the job full time for a few weeks...

MADDEN! DUH DUH DUH DUUUUUUUUH!

At one point in the voting it was Hillis vs. Rodgers, I voted Hillis for this very reason.

No worries, Rodgers will get the cover next year.

 

[Reepicheep]

Peyton Hillis was officially diagnosed with hamstring injury via team MRI today.

Hillis Hammy Injury

Looks like we'll see Hardesty get a shot at the job full time for a few weeks...

MADDEN! DUH DUH DUH DUUUUUUUUH!

At one point in the voting it was Hillis vs. Rodgers, I voted Hillis for this very reason.

No worries, Rodgers will get the cover next year.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

It's becoming very clear to me that you have to be a special, special talent to keep a feature RB role in this league. I'm not even sure there's 10 guys that are true 3 down backs that also get goal line carries. So to think that Hillis could go elsewhere and get one of those jobs is really hard core speculating. It is starting to look like the Browns want to give significant touches to Hardesty. I understand he's struggled a bit with protection issues etc. That doesn't mean he always will however. As a matter of fact, when Brandon Jackson (now a Brown) was a rookie, he struggled mightily with blitz pickups. By the time he left GB, he was one of the best in the league at it. It is something that can be taught.

The problem for Hardesty is that the rest of his skillset is on a par with Jackson's. Hillis can find work elsewhere, but probably not as many places as some have posted. The bizarre thing is that his skillet is far better suited for the WC offense, so it is hard to fathom what Shurmur is doing.

i think you hit the issue right on the head without even noticing it. i think the Browns have started to notice he's Tom Rathman in Shurmur's WCO. while very good for the team overall maybe not what you want for your fantasy team. they seem to want to figure out if Hardesty can be the bigger piece of the RB puzzle. Hardesty has not looked as bad as many have stated. and i think as he gets healthier he'll get more explosive and more rust will fall off. and as stated earlier in the thread, pass pro can be fixed if the participant is willing. without getting into anything racial here.......Hardesty has more natural upside or athleticism. alot of or any of his runs haven't busted out yet but you can still see the smoothness of the athlete and see what the browns saw when they drafted him so highly.

 

[bigunreal]

The Hillis Conspiracy rolls on. From the moment the story broke about his "strep throat," I knew something wasn't right. No NFL player misses a game because of something like that, especially a warrior like Hillis. Since that time, Hillis has clearly played second fiddle to a vastly inferior back in Hardesty. It doesn't seem to matter how bad Hardesty looks, Shurmur contines to prefer him. Hillis has perhaps the best hands of any RB in the league, but Shurmur wants to use Hardesty-who has dropped at least SIX passes the past two games-in that role. What kind of sane coach does that? Finally, the past few games, this idiotic clown has installed Hardesty as the GOAL LINE back! Insanity!

I don't believe for a second that Hillis has any "hamstring" injury. If you watched last week's game, you could see him standing on the sidelines, clearly unhappy about the situation. I didn't see it, but several posters on Cleveland Browns' forums claimed to have seen him attempting to lobby the coaches to play, and they merely waved him off in disgust. Whatever is really going on in Cleveland, one thing is certain- Shurmur sees Hillis as a fullback. White RBs tend to look that way to almost all coaches in this absurd league. He doesn't care about talent, past track record, 40 times, receiving ability or anything else. All he knows is that Hillis is white, and NFL RBs aren't white.

A couple scenarios come to mind, in determining what really happened here. Perhaps Hillis was told the Friday before the "strep throat" game (when we first heard he was "sick") that his role was going to be gradually diminished in favor of Hardesty. Hillis naturally objected strongly to this, and when he showed up for the game, they told him he was only going to play fullback. He could have either walked off in frustration, or maybe they told he to go home and then concocted the ridiculous cover story, which of course only made Hillis look foolish. The entire thing made Hillis seem to be "soft," uncaring about his teammates, etc. Certainly his contract situation is a big part of the problem here, but it isn't the primary issue at hand. We're all avoiding it, much as the msm would never acknowledge it.

If Hillis ends up getting screwed out of being permitted to be the ONLY starting white RB in the NFL, then a lot more people are going to finally discover the gigantic elephant wandering around the room. I knew something would probably happen to Hillis, but this entire drama is ridiculous.

 

[flapgreen]

Agreed. Shows why the Browns have been an incompetent franchise for years.

 

[dontknowaboutme]

The Hillis Conspiracy rolls on. From the moment the story broke about his "strep throat," I knew something wasn't right. No NFL player misses a game because of something like that, especially a warrior like Hillis. Since that time, Hillis has clearly played second fiddle to a vastly inferior back in Hardesty. It doesn't seem to matter how bad Hardesty looks, Shurmur contines to prefer him. Hillis has perhaps the best hands of any RB in the league, but Shurmur wants to use Hardesty-who has dropped at least SIX passes the past two games-in that role. What kind of sane coach does that? Finally, the past few games, this idiotic clown has installed Hardesty as the GOAL LINE back! Insanity! I don't believe for a second that Hillis has any "hamstring" injury. If you watched last week's game, you could see him standing on the sidelines, clearly unhappy about the situation. I didn't see it, but several posters on Cleveland Browns' forums claimed to have seen him attempting to lobby the coaches to play, and they merely waved him off in disgust. Whatever is really going on in Cleveland, one thing is certain- Shurmur sees Hillis as a fullback. White RBs tend to look that way to almost all coaches in this absurd league. He doesn't care about talent, past track record, 40 times, receiving ability or anything else. All he knows is that Hillis is white, and NFL RBs aren't white. A couple scenarios come to mind, in determining what really happened here. Perhaps Hillis was told the Friday before the "strep throat" game (when we first heard he was "sick") that his role was going to be gradually diminished in favor of Hardesty. Hillis naturally objected strongly to this, and when he showed up for the game, they told him he was only going to play fullback. He could have either walked off in frustration, or maybe they told he to go home and then concocted the ridiculous cover story, which of course only made Hillis look foolish. The entire thing made Hillis seem to be "soft," uncaring about his teammates, etc. Certainly his contract situation is a big part of the problem here, but it isn't the primary issue at hand. We're all avoiding it, much as the msm would never acknowledge it. If Hillis ends up getting screwed out of being permitted to be the ONLY starting white RB in the NFL, then a lot more people are going to finally discover the gigantic elephant wandering around the room. I knew something would probably happen to Hillis, but this entire drama is ridiculous.

Pretty interesting narrative. While I do not agree with everything you said, I was watching the game and something seemed odd, a couple of people caught this including Rotoworld. Maybe he really did pull his hamstring. What we do know is that Hardesty has the physical skills on paper, but he has looked terrible in games. Shurmur is taking the blame from many people since the running game in Cleveland is terrible this year, not that it was averaging 5 yards a carry last year, but it was pretty decent. I know you are big on the white running back conspiracy, which is pretty believable, but being too passionate about it can cause people to write it off.

 

[LargeMouthBass]

The Hillis Conspiracy rolls on. From the moment the story broke about his "strep throat," I knew something wasn't right. No NFL player misses a game because of something like that, especially a warrior like Hillis. Since that time, Hillis has clearly played second fiddle to a vastly inferior back in Hardesty. It doesn't seem to matter how bad Hardesty looks, Shurmur contines to prefer him. Hillis has perhaps the best hands of any RB in the league, but Shurmur wants to use Hardesty-who has dropped at least SIX passes the past two games-in that role. What kind of sane coach does that? Finally, the past few games, this idiotic clown has installed Hardesty as the GOAL LINE back! Insanity! I don't believe for a second that Hillis has any "hamstring" injury. If you watched last week's game, you could see him standing on the sidelines, clearly unhappy about the situation. I didn't see it, but several posters on Cleveland Browns' forums claimed to have seen him attempting to lobby the coaches to play, and they merely waved him off in disgust. Whatever is really going on in Cleveland, one thing is certain- Shurmur sees Hillis as a fullback. White RBs tend to look that way to almost all coaches in this absurd league. He doesn't care about talent, past track record, 40 times, receiving ability or anything else. All he knows is that Hillis is white, and NFL RBs aren't white. A couple scenarios come to mind, in determining what really happened here. Perhaps Hillis was told the Friday before the "strep throat" game (when we first heard he was "sick") that his role was going to be gradually diminished in favor of Hardesty. Hillis naturally objected strongly to this, and when he showed up for the game, they told him he was only going to play fullback. He could have either walked off in frustration, or maybe they told he to go home and then concocted the ridiculous cover story, which of course only made Hillis look foolish. The entire thing made Hillis seem to be "soft," uncaring about his teammates, etc. Certainly his contract situation is a big part of the problem here, but it isn't the primary issue at hand. We're all avoiding it, much as the msm would never acknowledge it. If Hillis ends up getting screwed out of being permitted to be the ONLY starting white RB in the NFL, then a lot more people are going to finally discover the gigantic elephant wandering around the room. I knew something would probably happen to Hillis, but this entire drama is ridiculous.

The thing that's weird is MSM not giving much attention to all of this. When Arian Foster had hamstring issues, it was talked about day and night. Hillis, according to my league, was the 2nd highest scoring RB last year. I mean can a guy get some media time or what? WTF is going on around here?

 

[cvnpoka]

The Hillis Conspiracy rolls on. From the moment the story broke about his "strep throat," I knew something wasn't right. No NFL player misses a game because of something like that, especially a warrior like Hillis. Since that time, Hillis has clearly played second fiddle to a vastly inferior back in Hardesty. It doesn't seem to matter how bad Hardesty looks, Shurmur contines to prefer him. Hillis has perhaps the best hands of any RB in the league, but Shurmur wants to use Hardesty-who has dropped at least SIX passes the past two games-in that role. What kind of sane coach does that? Finally, the past few games, this idiotic clown has installed Hardesty as the GOAL LINE back! Insanity! I don't believe for a second that Hillis has any "hamstring" injury. If you watched last week's game, you could see him standing on the sidelines, clearly unhappy about the situation. I didn't see it, but several posters on Cleveland Browns' forums claimed to have seen him attempting to lobby the coaches to play, and they merely waved him off in disgust. Whatever is really going on in Cleveland, one thing is certain- Shurmur sees Hillis as a fullback. White RBs tend to look that way to almost all coaches in this absurd league. He doesn't care about talent, past track record, 40 times, receiving ability or anything else. All he knows is that Hillis is white, and NFL RBs aren't white. A couple scenarios come to mind, in determining what really happened here. Perhaps Hillis was told the Friday before the "strep throat" game (when we first heard he was "sick") that his role was going to be gradually diminished in favor of Hardesty. Hillis naturally objected strongly to this, and when he showed up for the game, they told him he was only going to play fullback. He could have either walked off in frustration, or maybe they told he to go home and then concocted the ridiculous cover story, which of course only made Hillis look foolish. The entire thing made Hillis seem to be "soft," uncaring about his teammates, etc. Certainly his contract situation is a big part of the problem here, but it isn't the primary issue at hand. We're all avoiding it, much as the msm would never acknowledge it. If Hillis ends up getting screwed out of being permitted to be the ONLY starting white RB in the NFL, then a lot more people are going to finally discover the gigantic elephant wandering around the room. I knew something would probably happen to Hillis, but this entire drama is ridiculous.

go back to your holehttp://www.castefootball.us/forums/

 

[Ladsud]

Not sure bout the race thing but it is kinda sad the browns are trying to develop a player that has had numerous surgeries, no hands, doesnt know how to block, while they dont want a big bruiser that is young and has shown he can do all those things. Guess not all teams play to win the game.

 

[bigunreal]

Surprised it took a few posts for the "racist" card to be played. Obviously, there is nothing "racist" about someone pointing out that the NFL genuinely discriminates against white RBs. Unless, of course, you believe whites-who comprise about 75% of the American population, are somehow incapable of playing this particular position on a football team. Maybe you can tell us Hillis is "too slow" to play RB- even though he is faster than at least half the starting backs in the league. Perhaps you'll chant the mantra that he was a "one year wonder," ignoring his success in Denver and the fact he hasn't been in the league long and wasn't given a chance until last year. Or repeat the idiotic line that he is "injury prone" and "wore down" last season. Yes, a huge Robocop-like physical specimen like Hillis cannot handle a full workload, but tiny Ray Rice can. Okay....

Hillis was doubted, during the offseason, like no other comparable RB has been in modern times. He has a great all- around skill set, and is a perfect fit for the WCO. Shockingly, the new coaching staff doesn't seem to realize this. The only thing, imho, that has kept Hillis hanging tenuously onto his starting job is the fact that the other RBs on the Browns are horrendous. What kind of coach sees a career mediocrity like Brandon Jackson as an upgrade as a third down back over a wonderful receiving back like Hillis, who was exceptional in that department last season? What coaching staff can look at Hardesty and Hillis and fairly determine that Hillis is not the obvious choice as starter, third down back and goal line back?

I just wish Hillis would stop going along with the charade and tell the truth. Just state that the coaching staff wants you to move to fullback, and that you have proven conclusively that you are capable of being an every down, starting RB in this league. Refuse to block for pedestrian "talents" like Hardesty. We all know you don't have any hamstring injury- just come out and say it. Most of the fans still love you- in fact, their anger over the way you've been used the past few games is probably the other reason you haven't just been demoted to blocking FB. Fantasy owners spent a high draft pick on you and are ticked off, too. Make Shurmur and Holmgren look like the morons they are.

At this point, I almost expect this "injury" Hillis has to linger on for the rest of the season, unless he speaks up about it. So far, he's made some stupid choices, and if he thinks going along with this nonsense will increase his market value, well....

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Maybe the man is keeping him down. Maybe really is hurt. Maybe he's being punished by the team. Maybe he's protesting his lack of contract. Or maybe he's just not that good.

Lots of reasonable arguments to make other than the league being against him because the color of his skin. Might there be something to your point? Maybe. But if Hillis looked as good as Peterson, Gore, or a few other guys he'd get loads of carries. He's not that good. Hence he doesn't get as many carries.

 

[bigunreal]

Calling someone "racist," in a typically arrogant tone, is akin to a misguided child shouting out "#######" on the playground to someone who says something he doesn't like. It is an ignorant attempt to quell discussion, end debate and maintain the status quo. For your edification, what I am maintaining is that NFL coaches-exemplified here by Shurmur-often make decisions based on truly racist concepts. For many years, blacks weren't allowed to play QB, because they weren't "smart" enough. It's the exact same kind of backwards racist thinking that causes a guy like Shurmur to look at a physical freak like Hillis, who was so dominant last season, and decide not to build his offense around him, but to diminish his role in favor of a far less skilled player.

I'd like to hear an attempt from you at intelligent debate. No "racist" labels, no inaccurate generalization that Hillis is "too slow," no childish declarations that "he sucks!" Please explain how every starting RB in the NFL could have come from the same racial minority group-one that comprises only 12% of the population-for the last 25 years, until Peyton Hillis. How can a racial group that is the clear majority of the populace, as well as a clear majority of all the high school football players across the country, can somehow be shut out from certain skill positions like RB, year after year, decade after decade?

Either you believe we are indeed all equal, and that racial stereotypes are stupid (as I do), or you have to explain how such a wildly disproportionate representation of RBs and other positions, breaking every possible law of averages, just happens. If you believe black people are natural athletes, by virtue of their skin color, then you believe in racial stereotypes. Either that is somehow true, or there is a conscious or unconscious effort on the part of the nearly all white NFL establishment to select them over what are often more qualified white players.

Please explain, with at least an attempt at civility and reason, why there are no white RBs.

 

[AngryPatriot]

How's the inner hamstring, will he play? That's what I need to know!

 

[nkowal]

Wow, this thread took an awful turn.

It's pretty easy to refute some of the logic used in the above posts which suggest some conspiracy against Hillis.

One, he's said his hamstring was hurt. He went to get an MRI on it. That's an awfully big charade to go through to fake a benching.

Two, the "lobbying" part fits in well with what is reported to have happened - that he was hurt and was brough back in to help pass protect since Hardesty's pass blocking is still subpar.

I do agree Shurmur & Co. have horribly misused Hillis, who is talented. I disagree with suggesting that Hardesty is not talented (he is). He does not excel at pass protection, however. Objectively I'd still prefer to use Hillis with Hardesty spelling, so there's something different between my logic and the coaches (duh).

Hillis did not practice yesterday and was not in the lockerroom for the media, so I guess we'll see today...

 

[squistion]

Please explain, with at least an attempt at civility and reason, why there are no white RBs.

Um, perhaps for the same reason there seems to be no black kickers or punters in the NFL (even though, as you pointed out, they represent 12% of the population). This is not some grand conspiracy to keep whites from playing RB, no more than it is to keep blacks from playing kicker - NFL coaches are always ultimately playing for their job and they have a vested interest in playing the best player available, irrespective of their skin color. Perhaps, because of racial stereotypes, players don't try out for certain positions to begin with - so the pool of potential players may be skewed towards one race going back to high school. However, to suggest some sort of racial bias at the NFL level is absurd.

 

[Jewell]

Calling someone "racist," in a typically arrogant tone, is akin to a misguided child shouting out "#######" on the playground to someone who says something he doesn't like. It is an ignorant attempt to quell discussion, end debate and maintain the status quo.

Bigunreal isn't saying anything negative about another race, he's just positing a possible explanation for why Hillis hasn't been given the shots he feels a comparable back may have been given if he were black.

Adena Andrews, a black columnist for ESPN Women, suggests the same thing: "Race matters. Everyone sees color.... And when he arrived on any field, coaches probably didn't look at him as a running back, likely positioning him in a more typically white role."

Is Adena Andrews racist?

Hell, Hillis himself raised a comparable point: SIs Dan Patrick asked Hillis about the novelty of being a white running back in the NFL. Hillis said the topic is thrown in his face directly and indirectly, regularly. I know a lot of people dont have a lot faith in me, he said, and even if you have a good year or a bad year theyre still going to criticize you and say youre not good enough. It just gives me the motivation to go out there and do better. Hillis said his complexion always came up on the field. Every team did it, he said. Theyll say, You white boy, you aint gonna run on us today. This is ridiculous. Why are you giving offensive linemen the ball? All kinds of stuff like that you hear on the field, but I use that to my advantage. I kind of soaked it in, ate it up a little bit, because I enjoyed it.

Is Peyton Hillis racist?

 

[Clifford]

I got suspended for making a humorous comment about this situation. It wasn't even remotely racist and still landed me a 4-day suspension, and the guy who did it never even explained how or why it was racist.

FYI, be careful mentioning race on this board. It seems to be an extremely taboo subject.

 

[AmosMoses]

Is bigunreal saying Hillis isn't playing because he a racist and the Browns don't want to start racists?

 

[cvnpoka]

Is bigunreal saying Hillis isn't playing because he a racist and the Browns don't want to start racists?

hes saying its all a game to keep the white man down.

 

[Angry Beavers]

Peyton Hillis (hamstring) will run in the pool on Thursday and is officially day to day.

Related: Montario HardestySource: Nate Ulrich on Twitter

this is from rotoworld

 

[cvnpoka]

hope he is ready, his cerebral, hard-working, gritty, powerful blocking should open up some nice holes for the explosive montario hardesty.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Calling someone "racist," in a typically arrogant tone, is akin to a misguided child shouting out "#######" on the playground to someone who says something he doesn't like. It is an ignorant attempt to quell discussion, end debate and maintain the status quo. For your edification, what I am maintaining is that NFL coaches-exemplified here by Shurmur-often make decisions based on truly racist concepts. For many years, blacks weren't allowed to play QB, because they weren't "smart" enough. It's the exact same kind of backwards racist thinking that causes a guy like Shurmur to look at a physical freak like Hillis, who was so dominant last season, and decide not to build his offense around him, but to diminish his role in favor of a far less skilled player. I'd like to hear an attempt from you at intelligent debate. No "racist" labels, no inaccurate generalization that Hillis is "too slow," no childish declarations that "he sucks!" Please explain how every starting RB in the NFL could have come from the same racial minority group-one that comprises only 12% of the population-for the last 25 years, until Peyton Hillis. How can a racial group that is the clear majority of the populace, as well as a clear majority of all the high school football players across the country, can somehow be shut out from certain skill positions like RB, year after year, decade after decade? Either you believe we are indeed all equal, and that racial stereotypes are stupid (as I do), or you have to explain how such a wildly disproportionate representation of RBs and other positions, breaking every possible law of averages, just happens. If you believe black people are natural athletes, by virtue of their skin color, then you believe in racial stereotypes. Either that is somehow true, or there is a conscious or unconscious effort on the part of the nearly all white NFL establishment to select them over what are often more qualified white players. Please explain, with at least an attempt at civility and reason, why there are no white RBs.

Take this crap to your own thread please. I welcome some humor in here but it's primarily to discuss Hillis' hamstring injury. How other white running backs have been held down is a theory you're welcome to discuss elsewhere. Even if all white running backs have been held down by the man, that doesn't change the fact Hillis has been given a chance. Maybe none wanted to give black quarterbacks a chance - if a black Alex Smith came along he wouldn't get much of a shot. But if a black Peyton Manning showed up you can bet teams would line up to have him throw the ball.Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

 

[Dought Man]

Peyton Hillis (hamstring) will run in the pool on Thursday and is officially day to day.Related: Montario HardestySource: Nate Ulrich on Twitter this is from rotoworld

Is the pool racist? Or is that yet to be determined?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Peyton Hillis (hamstring) will run in the pool on Thursday and is officially day to day.Related: Montario HardestySource: Nate Ulrich on Twitter this is from rotoworld

Is the pool racist? Or is that yet to be determined?

Maybe his hamstring is racist?

 

[Reepicheep]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Peyton Hillis was officially diagnosed with hamstring injury via team MRI today.

Hillis Hammy Injury

Looks like we'll see Hardesty get a shot at the job full time for a few weeks...

MADDEN! DUH DUH DUH DUUUUUUUUH!

At one point in the voting it was Hillis vs. Rodgers, I voted Hillis for this very reason.

No worries, Rodgers will get the cover next year.

Buy low on Flynn now

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

hope he is ready, his cerebral, hard-working, gritty, powerful blocking should open up some nice holes for the explosive montario hardesty.

He's a lunch-pail type guy. He'll be good to use while they develop the natural atheleticism of Hardesty

 

[Breesisdaman]

I see a lot of lines in the water but no one has taken the bait yet.

 

[cvnpoka]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

 

[Wrigley]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

What is Hardesty averaging?

 

[Hank Mardukas]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

Excluding the injury game vs. Oakland, Hillis has faced Cinci, Indy, and Tennessee. Respectively, they're #2, #12, and #8 in ypc against.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

 

[cvnpoka]

i think you are reading things in my post that arent there.

mainly, i took issue with this part:

Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good.

and offered an alternative, that, perhaps, him and the line are just going through a standard funk that happens in such a competitive environment. there are many other possibilities beyond injured, not a good player, or conspiracy (others think this, not you dra.)i do wholeheartedly agree with this

But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Agreed. Shows why the Browns have been an incompetent franchise for years.

This is where the conversation belongs. As a Saints fan this stuff fascinates me.On a football level:- The comparison to Foster's injury is interesting. My guess is Hillis has a prolonged hamstring issue but later he will be better (obvious). PROBLEM IS that Foster has more or less the same line, the same scheme, same head coach, same OC, an emerging team. Cleveland has a rebuilding line, different scheme (west coast), different coach, different OC, a mediocre/stagnant team. And the injuries may be different, who knwos if Hillis' is like Foster's it coudl be worse, in a different place or Hillis may heal differently. Plus the guy basically openly evokes he sat because of the contract dispute, not a coach in the world who likes that and who would want to reward it.I can't trade for the guy in any league because the owner invested too much for what he's worth and I don't want to offer too much because he could indeed be either injured more than we know or he could be getting the cold shoulder because he took a dive by the looks of it. I would trade for him if I could though.To quote the great Python he's not dead yet.

 

[Hank Mardukas]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

 

[shnikies]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter with "playcalling and [an] offensive line [that] hinder his production". If the latter part is true, wouldn't that imply he's even better than his production indicates?

I thought the Browns line is pretty damn good but maybe I'm mistaken. The crazy thing is that FBG has Hardesty as RB43 going forward right behind Knowshon Moreno. They really need to put more time into that list.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter with "playcalling and [an] offensive line [that] hinder his production". If the latter part is true, wouldn't that imply he's even better than his production indicates?

This year is not last year. It's possible to have an o-line and play better one year than it does the next. Also, if you gave any running back enough carries they'd rack up some yards and touchdowns. Doesn't mean the running back is anything special.

 

[anicholsnj]

Agreed. Shows why the Browns have been an incompetent franchise for years.

This is where the conversation belongs. As a Saints fan this stuff fascinates me.On a football level:- The comparison to Foster's injury is interesting. My guess is Hillis has a prolonged hamstring issue but later he will be better (obvious). PROBLEM IS that Foster has more or less the same line, the same scheme, same head coach, same OC, an emerging team. Cleveland has a rebuilding line, different scheme (west coast), different coach, different OC, a mediocre/stagnant team. And the injuries may be different, who knwos if Hillis' is like Foster's it coudl be worse, in a different place or Hillis may heal differently. Plus the guy basically openly evokes he sat because of the contract dispute, not a coach in the world who likes that and who would want to reward it.I can't trade for the guy in any league because the owner invested too much for what he's worth and I don't want to offer too much because he could indeed be either injured more than we know or he could be getting the cold shoulder because he took a dive by the looks of it. I would trade for him if I could though.To quote the great Python he's not dead yet.

"I feel happy, I feel happy"Whack!!!!!!

 

[Hank Mardukas]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter with "playcalling and [an] offensive line [that] hinder his production". If the latter part is true, wouldn't that imply he's even better than his production indicates?

This year is not last year. It's possible to have an o-line and play better one year than it does the next. Also, if you gave any running back enough carries they'd rack up some yards and touchdowns. Doesn't mean the running back is anything special.

Can't tell if serious. Here's the top 10 total yds from scrimmage for 2010:

Arian Foster - 2220

Jamaal Charles - 1935

Ray Rice - 1776

Lesean McCoy - 1672

Darren McFadden - 1664

Peyton Hillis - 1654

MJD - 1641

AP - 1639

Steven Jackson - 1624

Matt Forte - 1616

So I guess the rest of those guys are nothing special?

 

[rabiddawgs]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light. I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter.

The cleveland line was supposed to be good but the loss of steinbach has hurt tons. and the right side is a rotation of crap right now. not sure what is going on with it, last year the right side was pretty darn good. but if i remember right most of his runs were to the left behind steinbach mack and thomasHillis is just not getting the carries a big man like that needs to wear down the def and get his yards. the only game was vs indy. 27 carries 94 yards and 2 tds

cincy was 17-57 which has turned out to be a pretty good run def

indy see above

miami DNP

tenn- 10-46 pretty good run def

oak 6-14. hurt hammy when? and they stacked the box big time. mack(center just coming off appendicitus surgrey not up to full strength)

and everyone keeps bringing up how bad.mediocre he was to end the season.... didnt we later find out he had broken ribs?

shurm. is not using his backs properly at all.

i posted some stats and what not in the post. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=618688&st=0 last post page 1

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Hillis is averaging 3.5 ypc this year. I don't care what your color of skin is. That's not very good. He averaged 4.4 last year. That's solid but nothing great. And numerous guys have come from nowhere to have one solid year before reverting back to mediocrity. Maybe he's struggling because he's injured. Or maybe he's just not that good. But to argue the team is stopping him from playing because he's white when he's averaging only 3.5 yards per carry is beyond asinine.

i mean, its a pretty damn small sample size considering hes played 3.5 games this yr and has a whole 60 carries. if teams gave up on players that performed similarly over similar stretches there would be absurd turnover among rbs. and, ofc, its not like hardesty has played better.

I find it fascinating folks are claiming this year is too small a sample size to determine how good he is or isn't. Yet they want to point to his time in Denver to show how good he can be. His good year in Denver? 5.0 ypc. On 68 attempts. This year? 3.5 ypc. On 60 attempts. Monterio Hardesty is averaging 3.6 ypc. I'm not saying Hillis is or isn't the better running back between the two of them. I believe he is hurt. I believe the Browns playcalling and offensive line will hinder his production. I also believe Hillis isn't that good. He's a mediocre talent and mediocre talents don't get the job given to them on a silver platter. It's not some great conspiracy against Peyton Hillis because his skin is too light.

I bought low on Hillis because I felt there was value to be had. But I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement.

Please explain how a mediocre talent finished with 1,654 yards from scrimmage and 13 Tds in his first full season as a starter with "playcalling and [an] offensive line [that] hinder his production". If the latter part is true, wouldn't that imply he's even better than his production indicates?

This year is not last year. It's possible to have an o-line and play better one year than it does the next. Also, if you gave any running back enough carries they'd rack up some yards and touchdowns. Doesn't mean the running back is anything special.

Can't tell if serious. Here's the top 10 total yds from scrimmage for 2010:

Arian Foster - 2220

Jamaal Charles - 1935

Ray Rice - 1776

Lesean McCoy - 1672

Darren McFadden - 1664

Peyton Hillis - 1654

MJD - 1641

AP - 1639

Steven Jackson - 1624

Matt Forte - 1616

So I guess the rest of those guys are nothing special?

I do not understand how you possibly came to that conclusion.

 

[bigunreal]

I brought up race because I think that's what's driving this whole Hillis situation. Despite the reluctance of whites to even discuss the subject (certainly blacks have no qualms about discussing it), race clearly plays a factor when coaches evaluate players. Kickers were mentioned- good point. I've often wondered why there are no black kickers. If the racial group that dominates virtually all other positions in a game somehow can't produce even one kicker (and very, very few punters), how do we explain that? Are they somehow genetically predisposed to be superior at all positions except kicker, punter, holder and long snapper? No, for those of you who don't realize it, blacks just can't seem to cut it at long snapper.

Coaches think of kickers, and they don't see black, much as they used to think of only white QBs. They see a productive white college RB, and they instantly want him to bulk up and play FB. This has happened repeatedly over the past few decades; it's a clear cut pattern, not "racism" on my part for noticing it, but almost certainly racism on the part of the coaches who unfairly evaluate players based on something other than their skill set.

Hillis was dominant during his stretch in Denver, but only got the chance because the 4 or 5 backs in front of him kept getting hurt. Then, he was mysteriously frozen out of the running game by new coach Josh McDaniels, even when they struggled mightily in that area. He only got the chance to start in Cleveland because Hardesty was hurt, Harrison struggled and coach Mangini actually let him carry the ball. He had a wonderful all around season, made all the more impressive when one considers he was the ONLY weapon the Browns had on offense. Then, another new coach comes in and, like McDaniels, curiously refuses to utilize his best offensive weapon. Even those most in denial have to connect the dots here. No other RB who performed the way Hillis did last season would be treated this way, especially when his only competition is the thoroughly underwhelming Hardesty.

I hope Hillis gets a chance to be the lead back in Cleveland again, but I have my doubts. Fortunatly, Shurmur is so inept as a coach that the team will continue to flounder and the fans will keep demanding he use Hillis more. We'll see- Hillis is under a lot of pressure and not in a good situation at all. He was going to be my RB2 in two leagues, but for now I'm keeping him benched for the likes of Willis McGahee. Again, I am not being "racist" when I say race is at the center of this story.

 

[moderated]

All of the 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men's 100-meter races are of West African descent. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone-blacks from that region, now living around the globe, represent approximately 8 percent of the world's population-is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.

 

[LargeMouthBass]

All of the 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men's 100-meter races are of West African descent. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone-blacks from that region, now living around the globe, represent approximately 8 percent of the world's population-is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.

So what are you trying to say? Are you racist against Eastern Africans?

 

[moderated]

All of the 32 finalists in the last four Olympic men's 100-meter races are of West African descent. The likelihood of that happening based on population numbers alone-blacks from that region, now living around the globe, represent approximately 8 percent of the world's population-is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.

So what are you trying to say? Are you racist against Eastern Africans?

No, I believe that those of west African descent just work harder at running which explains the results.

 

[cvnpoka]

Hillis was dominant during his stretch in Denver, but only got the chance because the 4 or 5 backs in front of him kept getting hurt. Then, he was mysteriously frozen out of the running game by new coach Josh McDaniels, even when they struggled mightily in that area.

mcdaniels made myriad baffling personnel decisions. why were the other ones incompetence and this single one racism?

He only got the chance to start in Cleveland because Hardesty was hurt,

you dont know that at all, in fact, there was plenty of coach speak prior to his injury that all 3 backs would contribute.

Harrison struggled and coach Mangini actually let him carry the ball.

they were splitting time from the get-go. mangini recognized hillis's ability and utilized it from the first preseason game. harrison grumbled too much and mangini was fine shipping him out bc he had hillis to lean on.

Then, another new coach comes in and, like McDaniels, curiously refuses to utilize his best offensive weapon. Even those most in denial have to connect the dots here.

heres what i see: game 1 hillis had 23 touches to hardesty's 4. game 2 it was a whopping 31 to 3. then hillis loses 12 lbs late in the week and misses a game due to illness. hardesty looks pretty good in that game. predictably, the staff keeps hillis's workload in check the ensuing week as such an illness is pretty hard on your body. the next game, hillis gets dinged and cant play so hardesty is forced to get the snaps.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I brought up race because I think that's what's driving this whole Hillis situation. Despite the reluctance of whites to even discuss the subject (certainly blacks have no qualms about discussing it), race clearly plays a factor when coaches evaluate players. Kickers were mentioned- good point. I've often wondered why there are no black kickers. If the racial group that dominates virtually all other positions in a game somehow can't produce even one kicker (and very, very few punters), how do we explain that? Are they somehow genetically predisposed to be superior at all positions except kicker, punter, holder and long snapper? No, for those of you who don't realize it, blacks just can't seem to cut it at long snapper. Coaches think of kickers, and they don't see black, much as they used to think of only white QBs. They see a productive white college RB, and they instantly want him to bulk up and play FB. This has happened repeatedly over the past few decades; it's a clear cut pattern, not "racism" on my part for noticing it, but almost certainly racism on the part of the coaches who unfairly evaluate players based on something other than their skill set. Hillis was dominant during his stretch in Denver, but only got the chance because the 4 or 5 backs in front of him kept getting hurt. Then, he was mysteriously frozen out of the running game by new coach Josh McDaniels, even when they struggled mightily in that area. He only got the chance to start in Cleveland because Hardesty was hurt, Harrison struggled and coach Mangini actually let him carry the ball. He had a wonderful all around season, made all the more impressive when one considers he was the ONLY weapon the Browns had on offense. Then, another new coach comes in and, like McDaniels, curiously refuses to utilize his best offensive weapon. Even those most in denial have to connect the dots here. No other RB who performed the way Hillis did last season would be treated this way, especially when his only competition is the thoroughly underwhelming Hardesty. I hope Hillis gets a chance to be the lead back in Cleveland again, but I have my doubts. Fortunatly, Shurmur is so inept as a coach that the team will continue to flounder and the fans will keep demanding he use Hillis more. We'll see- Hillis is under a lot of pressure and not in a good situation at all. He was going to be my RB2 in two leagues, but for now I'm keeping him benched for the likes of Willis McGahee. Again, I am not being "racist" when I say race is at the center of this story.

For the love of god. Maybe there's a vast conspiracy against white running backs. But we're not talking about all white running backs. We're talking about one guy. Might there be a bias? Sure. But how does the fact Peyton Hillis has received chances fit with your theory?McDaniels was a trainwreck of a head coach who made numerous dumb decisions. He wrecked the team in many ways. Yet we're expected to think it was some bias against Hillis rather than his general incompetence? Hillis' "dominant stretch" in Denver? He had 68 carries. That's it! 68 carries is what you want to use as proof he's this great hidden talent. Why do you want to use that sample size to show how great he is while ignoring everything else? He had 270 carries last year. Why ignore that? He's had 60 carries this year. Why ignore that? Neither of these two seasons have shown the next Barry Sanders. His career upside is a white Eddie George. There's nothing wrong with being a running back who will help the coach grind out victories. But let's not confuse that with him being anything great. When healthy he's one of the lower level starting running backs in the league. I have no issue talking about some bizarre white guilt nonsense. I'm an open minded guy. But that doesn't mean I need to entertain every half assed conclusion someone leaps to. Go fire up your own crappy conspiracy thread and get this horse crap out of here. Stop trolling and hijacking. I haven't said you're being racist. I've just said you're hijacking this thread to promote theories that have little to do with the player at hand.

 

[Raider Nation]

I've often wondered why there are no black kickers. If the racial group that dominates virtually all other positions in a game somehow can't produce even one kicker, how do we explain that?

What about me?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

... He only got the chance to start in Cleveland because Hardesty was hurt, Harrison struggled and coach Mangini actually let him carry the ball. ...

Actually I rather thought Harrison got the shaft there.Harrison had one of the most amazing 3 game stretches in NFL history there, no exaggeration.

14. - 34/286/3TD/295 TOT

15. - 39/148/1TD

16. - 33/127/1TD/147 TOT

And oh by the way the team wins all 3 games.

I mean the guy was one tackle from holding the single game NFL rushing record. The NFL has been around for 90 years now.

Then, the guy comes in the next year, first game goes 9/52 - a 6 yard average almost - and.... he's told, nah, never mind, we're going with the "Joe Lunchbucket" sometime-fullback backup over here who never got to so much as sniff the backup job in college and couldn't stick with the team that drafted him.

Now, 2011 it's a new coach, new OC, new offensive scheme.... new RB you say? Shocker?

 

[jackdubl]

However, to suggest some sort of racial bias at the NFL level is absurd.

Not absurd. It's actually been documented and memorialized by many. That being said, Hillis has a hurt hammy. He was the lead back last week till he got hurt.