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Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2024 Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

Yogibear

Yogibear

Footballguy
Well, the list of modern-era nominees for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2024 just came out today. Here's the list:

Quarterbacks: Marc Bulger, Randall Cunningham, Jake Delhomme, Doug Flutie, Rich Gannon, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Tony Romo, Michael Vick

Running Backs: Shaun Alexander, Terry Allen, Mike Alstott, Jamal Anderson, Tiki Barber, Michael Bates (also KR), Jamaal Charles, Larry Centers (FB), Stephen Davis, Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn, Charlie Garner, Eddie George, Ahman Green, Priest Holmes, Steven Jackson, Chris Johnson, Daryl Johnston (FB), Thomas Jones, John Kuhn (FB), Vonta Leach, Dorsey Levens, Jamal Lewis, Eric Metcalf (also WR/KR/PR), Glyn Milburn (also WR), Lorenzo Neal (FB), Tony Richardson (FB), Robert Smith, Fred Taylor, Chris Warren, Ricky Watters, Brian Westbrook, Ricky Williams

Wide Receivers: Anquan Boldin, Troy Brown (also KR/PR), Donald Driver, Antonio Freeman, Irving Fryar, Dante Hall, Devin Hester (also KR/PR), Torry Holt, Joe Horn, Andre Johnson, Chad Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Derrick Mason, Herman Moore, Muhsin Muhammad, Jordy Nelson, Andre Rison, Jimmy Smith, Rod Smith, Steve Smith Sr., Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker

Tight Ends: Ben Coates, Antonio Gates, Wesley Walls

Offensive Linemen: Willie Anderson (T), Bruce Armstrong (T/G), Matt Birk (C), Lomas Brown (T), Ruben Brown (G), Jahri Evans (G), Kevin Glover (G/C), Olin Kreutz (C), T.J. Lang (T), Matt Light (T), Nick Mangold (C), Logan Mankins (G), Tom Nalen (C), Nate Newton (T/G), Jeff Saturday (C), Mark Schlereth (G/C), Josh Sitton (G), Chris Snee (G), Mark Stepnoski (C), Dave Szott (G), Max Unger (C), Brian Waters (G), Richmond Webb (T), Erik Williams (T), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Linemen: John Abraham (DE also LB), Jared Allen (DE), Dwight Freeney (DE), La'Roi Glover (DT/NT), Casey Hampton (DT/NT), Robert Mathis (DE), Haloti Ngata (DT), Leslie O'Neal (DE), Julius Peppers (DE), Simeon Rice (DE), Justin Smith (DE), Neil Smith (DE), Dana Stubblefield (DT), Henry Thomas (DT/NT), Justin Tuck (DE), Ted Washington (DT/NT), Vince Wilfork (DT/NT), Jamal Williams (DT/NT), Kevin Williams (DT), Pat Williams (DT)

Linebackers: Jessie Armstead, Brendon Ayanbadejo, Cornelius Bennett, Lance Briggs, Keith Brooking, NaVorro Bowman, Tedy Bruschi, Karlos Dansby, Donnie Edwards, James Farrior, London Fletcher, James Harrison, Larry Izzo, Willie McGinest (also DE), Hardy Nickerson, Ken Norton Jr., Bryce Paup, Julian Peterson, Joey Porter, Takeo Spikes, Jessie Tuggle, Mike Vrabel, Patrick Willis, Al Wilson, Lee Woodall

Defensive Backs: Eric Allen (CB), Kam Chancellor (S), Nick Collins (DB), Antonio Cromartie (CB), Dre Bly (DB), Merton Hanks (S), Rodney Harrison (S), Carnell Lake (DB), Tim McDonald (S), Eugene Robinson (DB), Samari Rolle (DB), Allen Rossum (DB), Bob Sanders (S), Charles Tillman (CB), Troy Vincent (CB), Antoine Winfield (DB), Darren Woodson (S)

Kickers/Punters: David Akers (K), Gary Anderson (K), Darren Bennett (P), Jason Elam (K), Jeff Feagles (P), Jason Hanson (K), John Kasay (K), Sean Landeta (P), Shane Lechler (P), Brad Maynard (P), Pat McAfee (P), Brian Moorman (P), Matt Stover (K), Matt Turk (P), Mike Vanderjagt (K)

Special Teams: Josh Cribbs (KR/PR also WR), Brian Mitchell (KR/PR also RB)

Now, 5 of these 173 names will be enshrined next year. Keep in mind that Buddy Parker is the Coach/Contributor Finalist and Randy Gradishar, Steve McMichael & Art Powell are the Senior Finalists. Out of the list of names, who do you believe will make up the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2024?
 
Games stats have changed so much when looking back people become less aware of how good some players were. Randall Cunningham is one of those guys for me. A generational athlete. 2nd in MVP voting 3 times. Lost to Boomer, prolly should have won that one. Lost to Montana, tight race. Lost to Terrell Davis and his 2000 yard season. Never won a super bowl. 12-9 in the playoffs. I get the argument against, but man he was a top QB of his era.
 
Gates is a no brainer.

Randell Cunningham and McNabb you can make cases for.

Warrick Dunn just yes.

Can make cases for Reggie Wayne Wes Welker, Boldin and Holt.
 
Here's the list of semifinalists that just came out today:

Eric Allen

Jared Allen

Willie Anderson

Tiki Barber

Anquan Boldin

Jahri Evans

London Fletcher

Dwight Freeney

Antonio Gates

Eddie George

James Harrison

Rodney Harrison

Devin Hester

Torry Holt

Andre Johnson

Robert Mathis

Julius Peppers

Steve Smith Sr.

Fred Taylor

Hines Ward

Ricky Watters

Reggie Wayne

Vince Wilfork

Patrick Willis

Darren Woodson

Keep in mind that Buddy Parker is the Coach/Contributor Finalist and Randy Gradishar, Steve McMichael and Art Powell are the Senior Finalists. Out of the remaining names, who do you believe will make up the Hall of Fame Class of 2024?
 
I would really like to see Rodney Harrison make it...always thought he was very good but when I got to see him play every game I can easily say he is one of the best players I have ever seen and his leadership skills are as good as you get...his motor and intensity are unmatched (and no doubt he crossed the line at times)...he was named Team Captain before he ever played a down with the Pats...some of his stats are not off the charts (two time 1st team All Pro and one second team and I can't say I don't blame someone for holding the HGH thing against him) but when you add them to being one of the focal points of a two-time Super Bowl Champ that won with a big time defense I think he is very deserving...here are a few other things:

Accomplishments and records​

 
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So, the RB finalists are Barber, George, Taylor and Watters.

Tiki had two seasons where he was a top 6 back and two more as top 12. His top TD season was 4th in the NFL and his career has him at 127th.
Eddie had two seasons as a top 6 back and four more as top 12. He's 73rd for career TD (rush/rec) and 28th career in rush yards.
Fred had two seasons where he was a top 6 back and two more as top 12. 17th in rushing yards for a career, but never led the league. 90th in career rush/rec TD's and 2nd in the league with 17 in 98.
Ricky had four seasons as a top 6 back (highest finish third, behind T Allen and T Davis) and five more as a top 12. 24th in rushing yards for a career and 27th in career yards from scrimmage.

Maybe it's the FF, but these four as finalists instead of Shaun Alexander (twice the #1 RB in the league and three other top 6 finishes) is criminal. The five year peak he had from 01-05 was tremendous. 98 TD's in 5 years. 1,770 yards from scrimmage on average.

TD made it on 96-98 and the thought of what could have been. Those three years were excellent, 17.7 TD and 2,037 yards from scrimmage. That being said, there was a guy who five years later hung a three year run of 20.3 TD and 2,189 yards from scrimmage. If TD's three years were enough to make it, 01-03 should be enough to get Priest Holmes there as well.

When I'm boring grandkids in 25 years with stories of the NFL I remember, Shaun A and Priest are guys that will be mentioned. The first four do not tell the story of the NFL.
 
I think Eddie George should get in.
I have long said he didn't have stats long enough but it's become apparent he played during an elite RB era. Very few in today's game even measure up to him.
 
I'm surprised no one's making a case for Jared Allen to get in. The guy is in the top 10 in career sacks.
 
Bri said:
I think Eddie George should get in.
I have long said he didn't have stats long enough but it's become apparent he played during an elite RB era. Very few in today's game even measure up to him.
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Okay, but does that matter?

George had an excellent prime, but it didn't last long, and having only made two All-Pro teams (one 1st team, one 2nd team) does not help his cause at all.
 
Ghost Rider said:
Bri said:
I think Eddie George should get in.
I have long said he didn't have stats long enough but it's become apparent he played during an elite RB era. Very few in today's game even measure up to him.
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Okay, but does that matter?

George had an excellent prime, but it didn't last long, and having only made two All-Pro teams (one 1st team, one 2nd team) does not help his cause at all.
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Yeah it changes it completely.

Let me use basketball for a sec. Patrick Ewing was recently discussed as the 4th best center of his generation. That's not even first team all NBA or second or third....blah blah blah. In this discussion, he was then categorized ninth best center all time. Woah ok the ninth best ought to get in.

Eddie George would have been a top tier back in every generation but his own elite one.

Another simple spin-
Should guys in today's game not get in because they didn't run for as many yards and TDs as George? Previous eras be booted because they didn't?

George is basically the criteria for a guy that gets in late
 
Max Power said:
Devin Hester changed the way special teams were played. Criminal if he doesn't get in.
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No he didn't.
There were plenty of famous players that returned kicks or punts and teams booted away from them.

I'm not in favor of him getting in. I think he was an excellent return guy but his stats have become a thing of legend or myth and not reality with so many debates.
19 TDs over 12 years is great but it's not even two per year.
Imagine watching fifteen games and he doesn't return one?

Also, I love love love me some Dante Hall highlights and if ever there was a player whose play made me hear Chris Berman it was him.

To name but two- Galloway and Tim Brown were eons better players than those two were. As return men, luck or circumstance, they were also in more big moments- to my memory. I don't recall many games where the Bears were down seven with so many seconds left and Hester returned one which essentially setup the win.
I do remember a Galloway game where Parcells called him the most dangerous player in the NFL or somesuch. The announcers and message boards ate up that exaggeration. Jets were down like 14. Galloway had a return kick, punt, huge reception, and maybe a reverse. Jets scored a TD but Galloway about accounted for 21 points that quarter. Now the announcers and boards were umm ok it was exaggerated but maybe not that much.

I feel like Tim Brown was in 20-30 games where his returns were at big moments.

Troy Brown was someone that hurt Hester in his era. Troy was a fine WR and fine PR. He didn't have a ton of gaudy stats but he was always making a big play for the best team in football and suddenly everyone on earth is talking about third down success and field position. Did Hester make us all talk like that?

Desmond Howard won the Heisman IIRC and we had something of a first- a "name" return guy. He had a few TDs one year and a couple here n there. Not too many but one special year. He got cut for a better WR several times. This is the gut punch that Hester fans would feel because there were many camps where people debated if Hester would make it or if they'd need a CB or WR moreso than a return guy. This whole experience turned Hester into a fringe roster guy and took the shine right off of him. No one remembers he played for a couple teams late in his career and PFR is even missing some stats from them.

If I'm in the "man, he was fun" category then, again, I'm going Dante Hall. I wouldn't begrudge ya picking Hester but regardless a fun player isn't a HOF qualification or we'd have RB Fridge Perry and the Hefty Lefty in there
 
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The most interesting vote is between Gradishire and McMichael. Both should have been in by now. McMichael probably makes it based on his health issues now.
 
Eddie George played 9 seasons. Across those 9 seasons, the overall league average was 4.1 ypc. That includes QB kneel downs, so a case could be made that that number would be higher using only RB carries.

The problem with George was is he only averaged 3.6 ypc over his career. His best season was 4.1 . . . meaning his best year was essentially only average. His last four seasons he had ypc’s of 3.0, 3.4, 3.3, and 3.3.

Put another way, on his 2,845 career rushing attempts, he needed another 1,423 yards to have been considered an average rusher. Not sure a RB with a -0.5 ypc compared to league average should be considered a strong HOF candidate. His yearly yardage totals were high, but he needed a ton of carries to get there.

There are 30 players with 10,000 rushing yards. He ranks last in ypc . . . 0.25 ypc lower than any of the others. There really isn’t a VORP stat in football. I’d be interested to see what George would have scored in that category.
 
Bri said:
Max Power said:
Devin Hester changed the way special teams were played. Criminal if he doesn't get in.
Click to expand...
No he didn't.
There were plenty of famous players that returned kicks or punts and teams booted away from them.

I'm not in favor of him getting in. I think he was an excellent return guy but his stats have become a thing of legend or myth and not reality with so many debates.
19 TDs over 12 years is great but it's not even two per year.
Imagine watching fifteen games and he doesn't return one?

Also, I love love love me some Dante Hall highlights and if ever there was a player whose play made me hear Chris Berman it was him.

To name but two- Galloway and Tim Brown were eons better players than those two were. As return men, luck or circumstance, they were also in more big moments- to my memory. I don't recall many games where the Bears were down seven with so many seconds left and Hester returned one which essentially setup the win.
I do remember a Galloway game where Parcells called him the most dangerous player in the NFL or somesuch. The announcers and message boards ate up that exaggeration. Jets were down like 14. Galloway had a return kick, punt, huge reception, and maybe a reverse. Jets scored a TD but Galloway about accounted for 21 points that quarter. Now the announcers and boards were umm ok it was exaggerated but maybe not that much.

I feel like Tim Brown was in 20-30 games where his returns were at big moments.

Troy Brown was someone that hurt Hester in his era. Troy was a fine WR and fine PR. He didn't have a ton of gaudy stats but he was always making a big play for the best team in football and suddenly everyone on earth is talking about third down success and field position. Did Hester make us all talk like that?

Desmond Howard won the Heisman IIRC and we had something of a first- a "name" return guy. He had a few TDs one year and a couple here n there. Not too many but one special year. He got cut for a better WR several times. This is the gut punch that Hester fans would feel because there were many camps where people debated if Hester would make it or if they'd need a CB or WR moreso than a return guy. This whole experience turned Hester into a fringe roster guy and took the shine right off of him. No one remembers he played for a couple teams late in his career and PFR is even missing some stats from them.

If I'm in the "man, he was fun" category then, again, I'm going Dante Hall. I wouldn't begrudge ya picking Hester but regardless a fun player isn't a HOF qualification or we'd have RB Fridge Perry and the Hefty Lefty in there
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I'd argue Hester was basically half of the Bears offense for several years as a return man alone. Those teams were winning games with a dominant D and deadly special teams. Heck he was so good in the return game he put Rex Grossman in the Superbowl. No other return man elevated his team like Hester did and with the state of the return game in the NFL currently no one else ever will.
 
Bri said:
Ghost Rider said:
Bri said:
I think Eddie George should get in.
I have long said he didn't have stats long enough but it's become apparent he played during an elite RB era. Very few in today's game even measure up to him.
Click to expand...
Okay, but does that matter?

George had an excellent prime, but it didn't last long, and having only made two All-Pro teams (one 1st team, one 2nd team) does not help his cause at all.
Click to expand...
Yeah it changes it completely.

Let me use basketball for a sec. Patrick Ewing was recently discussed as the 4th best center of his generation. That's not even first team all NBA or second or third....blah blah blah. In this discussion, he was then categorized ninth best center all time. Woah ok the ninth best ought to get in.

Eddie George would have been a top tier back in every generation but his own elite one.

Another simple spin-
Should guys in today's game not get in because they didn't run for as many yards and TDs as George? Previous eras be booted because they didn't?

George is basically the criteria for a guy that gets in late
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying when it comes to playing in an era of great RBs, but while Ewing was discussed as the 9th best center of all time, George isn't even close to being the 9th best RB of all time. Not sure I agree that he would have been top tier in any other era. His YPC was never impressive for one.
 
Another interesting debate is between Jared Allen and Julius Peppers. Both guys had over 100 career sacks. Julius Peppers is probably going to get in. But, if he makes it, then so should Jared Allen. I've always said that if a defensive guy has over 100 career sacks, then he should be in the Hall of Fame. I don't think James Harrison is getting in because he didn't have 100 career sacks. Another debate you can have is between Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney, who, like Allen and Peppers, had over 100 career sacks apiece. Out of the four semifinalists that have over 100 career sacks, Peppers is most likely to get in. But Allen has been a finalist in the last two years, and hasn't gotten in yet. I think Mathis and Freeney cancel each other out because both were teammates for a long time. Does anyone think that two guys (Allen and Peppers) who had over 100 career sacks will go in the same year?
 
FarFromHome said:
Max Power said:
Devin Hester changed the way special teams were played. Criminal if he doesn't get in.
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Agreed. Every coach screams about winning the three stages of the game. Offense. Defense. Special teams. Hester was arguably the greatest special teams weapon of all time.
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37 touchdowns in 151 games. As far as I can tell he’s well behind BMitch and Mel Gray in return yards. He was a very good punt returner, there are about a dozen better kick returners.

His numbers don’t dwarf or surpass many of his contemporaries.

BMitch deserves it more imo.
 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
FarFromHome said:
Max Power said:
Devin Hester changed the way special teams were played. Criminal if he doesn't get in.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Every coach screams about winning the three stages of the game. Offense. Defense. Special teams. Hester was arguably the greatest special teams weapon of all time.
Click to expand...

37 touchdowns in 151 games. As far as I can tell he’s well behind BMitch and Mel Grey in return yards. He was a very good punt returner, there are about a dozen better kick returners.

His numbers don’t dwarf or surpass many of his contemporaries.

BMitch deserves it more imo.
Click to expand...
Mitchell had twice as many (over 300 more) kickoff returns than Hester for less TDs and worse average.
 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
FarFromHome said:
Max Power said:
Devin Hester changed the way special teams were played. Criminal if he doesn't get in.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Every coach screams about winning the three stages of the game. Offense. Defense. Special teams. Hester was arguably the greatest special teams weapon of all time.
Click to expand...

37 touchdowns in 151 games. As far as I can tell he’s well behind BMitch and Mel Grey in return yards. He was a very good punt returner, there are about a dozen better kick returners.

His numbers don’t dwarf or surpass many of his contemporaries.

BMitch deserves it more imo.
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Ohhhh. Mel Gray. Forgot about that guy. Great reference. I spoke from memories a little hastily.
 
Max Power said:
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
FarFromHome said:
Max Power said:
Devin Hester changed the way special teams were played. Criminal if he doesn't get in.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Every coach screams about winning the three stages of the game. Offense. Defense. Special teams. Hester was arguably the greatest special teams weapon of all time.
Click to expand...

37 touchdowns in 151 games. As far as I can tell he’s well behind BMitch and Mel Grey in return yards. He was a very good punt returner, there are about a dozen better kick returners.

His numbers don’t dwarf or surpass many of his contemporaries.

BMitch deserves it more imo.
Click to expand...
Mitchell had twice as many (over 300 more) kickoff returns than Hester for less TDs and worse average.
Click to expand...

Not by a lot. BMitch also played longer which isn’t a bad thing.

I wouldn’t vote for either over a full time player.
 
Will the Panther's have more HOFers than wins this year?

Peppers has to be a lock with 159.5 sacks, number four all time.

Smith is 8th in yards and 12th in receptions. He's the best WR but I can see other candidates in other positions getting the nod.
 
Want to make it: McNair, Eddie, Andre Johnson, Hester, Antonio gates, Matt Burk, Mike Vrabel, Jared Allen, Peppers, Gary Anderson

I do think AJ deserves it but agree that gates is the sole lock on offense. Peppers and Allen should get in together.

If I had a vote without hearing the various arguments; I’d go Gates, Peppers, Hester, Allen, AJ
 
BassNBrew said:
Smith is 8th in yards and 12th in receptions. He's the best WR but I can see other candidates in other positions getting the nod.
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Is he though? Smith has more career yards and was a good returner but AJ was even more dominant and played two fewer seasons.
 
I agree with the YPC arguments and don't think Eddie George will get in, but consider the argument that being granted volume and being able to handle it durably in the NFL is in it of itself an argument for the talent of the possessor. Consider that durability and availability are a prized commodity in the league. Then consider Eddie George's career. His greatness is a lot less suspect than people might think if we look at the light right.
 
I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Eddie George. In my most glorious year, I was in a league where you just basically had one league standings. Kind of like a league table in soccer. So whatever the standings were at the end of the season was how they determined the champ.

I had the last pick in a 12 team snake draft. I picked Eddie George and some rookie named Edgerrin James. Then, after week one and watching highlights, I picked up some FA QB named Kurt Warner. The year was 1999.

Eddie George: 1304 yards rushing. 458 yards receiving. 13 total TD.

Edgerrin James: 1553 yards rushing. 586 yards receiving. 17 total TD.

Kurt Warner: 4353 yards passing. 41 total TD.

Won the league with a 15-1 record and it wasn't even close. Blew out pretty much everyone. Couldn't tell you the rest of my roster. My finest hour as a fantasy football manager.
 
rockaction said:
I agree with the YPC arguments and don't think Eddie George will get in, but consider the argument that being granted volume and being able to handle it durably in the NFL is in it of itself an argument for the talent of the possessor. Consider that durability and availability are a prized commodity in the league. Then consider Eddie George's career. His greatness is a lot less suspect than people might think if we look at the light right.
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I have always adhered to the philosophy that if you need to make a case and argue for a player, then he isn't a HOFer. There really isn't a compelling argument for George as a "no doubter" HOFer. There just isn't.

He ranks 28th in career rushing yards. He's behind Fred Taylor, Stephen Jackson, Corey Dillon, LeSean McCoy, Warrick Dunn, Ricky Watters, Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, and Tiki Barber, all of whom have yet to be inducted.

He ranks 53rd in YFS, where guys like Matt Forte, Ottis Anderson, Roger Craig, Herschel Walker, and Earnest Byner outrank him (in addition to all those other RBs I just listed).

George ranks T-38 in rushing TD with 68 (along with MJD and Thomas Jones). That puts him behind Alexander (100), Holmes (86), Lynch (85), Pete Johnson (76), Portis (75), Terry Allen (73), Muncie (71), Zeke (70), and Riggs (69). Those are guys are IN ADDITION TO the players on the other two lists.

But he could get in on the strength of all those SB rings he won . . . or not. He had one excellent post season when the Titans made it to the SB, but that was about it. The Titans ended up going 5-4 in their post-season games with George.

He was first team All Pro once and 2nd team once. He only had 3 seasons ranked in the Top 5 in rushing yards (with a high of 3rd) and never ranked in the Top 5 in rushing TD.

His PFR HOF Monitor score is only 47.16 (43rd among RBs). The average score for a HOF RB is 107.

He was the definition of "3 yards and a cloud of dust". True, he got up off the ground and got 3 more yards and another cloud of dust over and over again. He wouldn't be in my HOF, but maybe the voters see things way differently than I do.
 
Anarchy99 said:
There really isn't a compelling argument for George as a "no doubter" HOFer. There just isn't.
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Agreed. I don't think he has much case for the Hall at all. Just presenting an intellectually honest counterargument about volume, durability, and availability all being the distillation of skills that we don't see and can never be reflected on a stat sheet.

I'd argue that stats in football are a touch misleading. Unlike baseball, there are so many moving parts and nothing is ever isolated like the batter and a pitcher. It's not a game really conducive to counting/iterative statistical measures, unless we're talking EPA and the like.
 
-OZ- said:
BassNBrew said:
Smith is 8th in yards and 12th in receptions. He's the best WR but I can see other candidates in other positions getting the nod.
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Is he though? Smith has more career yards and was a good returner but AJ was even more dominant and played two fewer seasons.
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Post season make a difference?

AJ 4 games 25-358-1

Smith 11 games 59-1001-9

www.statmuse.com

Most Career Playoff Receiving Touchdowns | StatMuse

Jerry Rice has the most career receiving touchdowns in the playoffs, with 22 touchdowns.
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com

Every list I see Smith's name on he's surrounded by HOFers.
 
Gawain said:
So, the RB finalists are Barber, George, Taylor and Watters.

Tiki had two seasons where he was a top 6 back and two more as top 12. His top TD season was 4th in the NFL and his career has him at 127th.
Eddie had two seasons as a top 6 back and four more as top 12. He's 73rd for career TD (rush/rec) and 28th career in rush yards.
Fred had two seasons where he was a top 6 back and two more as top 12. 17th in rushing yards for a career, but never led the league. 90th in career rush/rec TD's and 2nd in the league with 17 in 98.
Ricky had four seasons as a top 6 back (highest finish third, behind T Allen and T Davis) and five more as a top 12. 24th in rushing yards for a career and 27th in career yards from scrimmage.

Maybe it's the FF, but these four as finalists instead of Shaun Alexander (twice the #1 RB in the league and three other top 6 finishes) is criminal. The five year peak he had from 01-05 was tremendous. 98 TD's in 5 years. 1,770 yards from scrimmage on average.

TD made it on 96-98 and the thought of what could have been. Those three years were excellent, 17.7 TD and 2,037 yards from scrimmage. That being said, there was a guy who five years later hung a three year run of 20.3 TD and 2,189 yards from scrimmage. If TD's three years were enough to make it, 01-03 should be enough to get Priest Holmes there as well.

When I'm boring grandkids in 25 years with stories of the NFL I remember, Shaun A and Priest are guys that will be mentioned. The first four do not tell the story of the NFL.
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Its totally because of fantasy football. Personally speaking I dont think any of the guys in this post should be in the HOF. Watters is the only one I would kind of consider.
 
rockaction said:
Anarchy99 said:
There really isn't a compelling argument for George as a "no doubter" HOFer. There just isn't.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't think he has much case for the Hall at all. Just presenting an intellectually honest counterargument about volume, durability, and availability all being the distillation of skills that we don't see and can never be reflected on a stat sheet.

I'd argue that stats in football are a touch misleading. Unlike baseball, there are so many moving parts and nothing is ever isolated like the batter and a pitcher. It's not a game really conducive to counting/iterative statistical measures, unless we're talking EPA and the like.
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I have nothing against George. My son went to tOSU. I’ve eaten in George’s restaurant more times than I can count. I met him once and he seemed like a down to earth stand up guy. I’m surprised he’s a HOF semi finalist. If there was a Hall of Very Good, he’d be in on the first ballot.
 
Anarchy99 said:
rockaction said:
Anarchy99 said:
There really isn't a compelling argument for George as a "no doubter" HOFer. There just isn't.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't think he has much case for the Hall at all. Just presenting an intellectually honest counterargument about volume, durability, and availability all being the distillation of skills that we don't see and can never be reflected on a stat sheet.

I'd argue that stats in football are a touch misleading. Unlike baseball, there are so many moving parts and nothing is ever isolated like the batter and a pitcher. It's not a game really conducive to counting/iterative statistical measures, unless we're talking EPA and the like.
Click to expand...
I have nothing against George. My son went to tOSU. I’ve eaten in George’s restaurant more times than I can count. I met him once and he seemed like a down to earth stand up guy. I’m surprised he’s a HOF semi finalist. If there was a Hall of Very Good, he’d be in on the first ballot.
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This. What I will always remember about him is his low yards per carry and his soul getting snatched from him by Ray Lewis with that interception. That moment is burned into my memory.
 
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