RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Harris supporters, what makes you think he is going to be better than Cook this year?
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RB James Cook, BUF (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Banger
Footballguy
Ha, hey MOP. hope all is well.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
And I believe you’re entirely incorrect.
I wish that you weren’t - I took Harris late in an NFC league believing it would be a committee.
That was before week 1 of the preseason. I’ve since come to realize it’s a foolish pick unless Cook goes down.
Good luck to your teams this year.
Does anyone really think that or is it value of where Harris is going vs where Cook is going?
Harris is a very good RB, but is constantly dinged up. If he stays healthy, he should be a great value. 4.7 YPC for his career and had 15 TDs for NE, so is an effective goal line back. I'm grabbing him in the double digit rounds in virtually every draft. I like Cook too but is moving up into the 6th round and guys I like better there.
Chaka
Footballguy
No one thinks that. Literally not one single, human being on Earth or their house pets believe that.
However Harris coming in for the two yard TD last night should have everyone (literally everyone etc.) pumping the brakes on Cook a bit.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m not pumping the brakes in the slightest. If cook is in there as the third down receiving back and also getting carries on first and second down, I have no problem with Damien Harris being a short yardage battering ram.
And that’s assuming Harris can get through a few games without getting hurt, which, given his track record, seems highly unlikely.
nittanylion
Footballguy
DHarris shareholders need to be worried about LMurray.
JCook shareholders don't need to be worried about either of the others, IMHO.
JCook shareholders don't need to be worried about either of the others, IMHO.
Boston
Footballguy
I don't know why you would pump the brakes on Cook due to that because it was very apparent the second they signed Harris that he would have that role...that should have been factored into Cook's value months ago.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agreed. Likely why Cook was a 6.08 pick for me, and not a mid 4th.
bj diggy
Footballguy
why? getting backup reps in a preseason game???
Are we arguing Cook vs Harris? My money is on Harris. More talented player with more experience being lead back.
His only ding is staying healthy. When healthy, Harris is a touchdown machine. Cook's upside is catching passes. Harris is thunder, Cook is lightning.
Cook goes first because of perceived upside and unknown. Harris goes late because he's steady and reliable. Buffalo will be in the RZ often, so, give me Harris...
His only ding is staying healthy. When healthy, Harris is a touchdown machine. Cook's upside is catching passes. Harris is thunder, Cook is lightning.
Cook goes first because of perceived upside and unknown. Harris goes late because he's steady and reliable. Buffalo will be in the RZ often, so, give me Harris...
ratbast
Footballguy
You taking Montgomery over Gibbs?
Not me. Although based on what Montgomery is getting paid, I think he will be more involved than people think.
Someone has to vulture all those TDs J Williams isn't there to steal anymore. Money says that's Montgomery.
Players who score 10+ TDs are lucrative in all formats. Over a 50% chance to score a TD? Yes sir. That will win me games. It's like busting a 60 yard run or catching 6 passes at once.
cmv5
Footballguy
I would argue heavily against Harris being the more talented of the two and I see that being very obvious this year.
cantstop1999
Footballguy
Harris is going to get more work than you think, cook is 190lbs come on now, he won’t hold up. Plus Harris when healthy is a good back, yes I know when healthy. Cook isn’t going to be a bellcow, 60/40 maybe.
Look at Harris' 2021 season. I think most Cook owners would be thrilled if he matched Harris' fantasy production that season.
It's easy to knock the older players, but this is Harris' best opportunity and I expect big things from him. He won't be less effective going from New England to Buffalo, I can tell you that much.
Bigger run lanes, less offensive attention, less stacked boxes, etc.
cmv5
Footballguy
It’s not even about age. I think if he had all these things to offer he would have been sought after by more teams and would have had a better contract than 1.77 million. He is there to hopefully be a better Zack Moss.
Don't get me wrong, Cook's 5.7 YPC is very impressive but we know that was a product of the type of touches he was getting.
You want him to have a nice secondary role. Buffalo's big knock including the wind game is that they can't dominate the game on the ground.
Harris is the kind of player who helps them win those types of games. A grinder who is going to muscle out tough yardage. Cook will be a great part of their offense but I imagine more of a McKissic role. He's going to he highly productive on 3rd downs and drives before halves. A pass catching role in a high powered offense is a good spot to be in, but I'm a fan of watching my player come in and steal the glory at the goal line.
Especially at a discounted price. Both are great but there exists a world where Harris outscores Cook in PPR this season.
You want him to have a nice secondary role. Buffalo's big knock including the wind game is that they can't dominate the game on the ground.
Harris is the kind of player who helps them win those types of games. A grinder who is going to muscle out tough yardage. Cook will be a great part of their offense but I imagine more of a McKissic role. He's going to he highly productive on 3rd downs and drives before halves. A pass catching role in a high powered offense is a good spot to be in, but I'm a fan of watching my player come in and steal the glory at the goal line.
Especially at a discounted price. Both are great but there exists a world where Harris outscores Cook in PPR this season.
You'd think so, but the RB market is **** at the moment. Buffalo was probably his #1 option to boot. Give yourself a chance to win a Super Bowl.
On the goalline it will be Harris, on 3rd downs it will be cook. Everything in between will be hot hand.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't know Harris so obviously just speculation but I would be pretty surprised if any NFL player who hasn't made high end money prioritized winning a SB over maximizing what might be their last payday.
If everyone is paying 2 million. Then the obvious choice was Buffalo.
Name me 1 better landing spot for Harris. I'd argue the talent difference between Miles Sanders and Damien Harris is marginal.
The problem is there are only so many starting roles and if you had to make $2,000,000 being in a timeshare with Cook in Buffalo was the best option available.
Miles is expected to be a starter. He got paid what he got paid, I think with all the options available the fact they chose him to be their 1B is all you need to know. They had their pick of the litter and they got Harris at a massive discount.
It's a 1-year "prove it" deal. Guy wants a contract and there will be plenty of opportunity to run angry in Buffalo come winter. He is betting on himself.
All he has is this season. He can play himself into a new contract or out of the league. I especially look forward to watching him stick it to NE twice a year.
ETA: Harris is only 26. He'll be a free agent at age 27 next year. This is it for him.
Chaka
Footballguy
Those weren't backup reps. Josh Allen was under center.
Deamon
Footballguy
I've come to the conclusion that part of your job at FantasyPros is to give really bad advice on competitors' sites in order for them to look for a new site to follow/purchase from.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
You keep saying this but I'm not sure I've seen any evidence of it. Harris is an okay back IMO but nothing special. What about him makes you believe he is a more talented back?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Cook was crazy efficient on a super small sample last year but what I've seen from Harris screams mediocre to me. I am personally willing to bet Cook is much more talented.
I repeat. Damian Harris was RB14 in PPR and RB8 in standard scoring two years ago. He scored 15 touchdowns. That's like catching 90 passes. You would fall out of your chair if Cook finished as RB8/RB15 in any format. The guy you're writing off has already done what you hope James Cook can do.I've come to the conclusion that part of your job at FantasyPros is to give really bad advice on competitors' sites in order for them to look for a new site to follow/purchase from.
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB | FantasyPros
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB
www.fantasypros.com
You can crap on Damian Harris and prefer James Cook's upside all you want, but Damian Harris already finished as RB8/15 and it only took him 200 carries in 2021 to accomplish that. I don't think 200 carries is a stretch, nor is 10+ touchdowns.
Again, Damian Harris is 26 years old and playing in the best offense of his career. He has done it for fantasy and real NFL. There's no reason to think he can't repeat his 2021 performance in a better offense. He is the Buffalo Bills' goal line back and before people got obsessed with receptions, we used to value goalline RBs who play in Top 5 offenses.
James Cook touched the ball 110 times last season. Let's not crown the guy prematurely. I like his YPC, but he'll need to catch more than 21 passes if he wants to compete with all the touchdowns Harris is going to be scoring.
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RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Two years ago is a big piece that can't be ignored here. Two years ago Harris was on a different offense with a rookie quarterback without really any other offensive weapons. He was the clear RB1 and arguably the best piece of the Patriots offense because they literally had nothing else until a fourth round rookie stole Harris's job.
Will Harris vulture some goal line and short yardage work? Sure. But I don't see him as a threat to Cook's production at all. Harris is more of a threat to Allen's value in that regard IMO.
Harris has a career 4.7 YPC. That is very good and anything at and round 5.0 YPC is considered above average to elite for a RB.
Josh Jacobs 4.9 ypc, CMC 4.8 ypc, Miles Sanders 4.8ypc, Kenneth Walker 4.6 ypc, Sarquan Barkley 4.6 ypc, last season.
Austin Ekeler 4.4ypc, Derrick Henry 4.4ypc, Jonathan Taylor 4.5ypc.
You can dog on his talent but he's put up touchdown and ypc stats that are comparable to most starters in the league.
All he is is a plug and play starting RB who will give you 4 to 5 yards per carry, has no questions pass blocking, and is highly effective in the RZ. I like both players but sign me up for Harris at a super, duper discount. He will have games where scores not only 1 but 2 TDs.
He's a big boy RB. No excuses, a bruising 26 year old Alabama kid on a 1 year prove it deal.
There's a lot to love. Alabama kid. Never torn an ACL or Achilles. He has a lot left to give to the game.
Do you prefer two years ago or never? Because it's possible James Cook never finishes that high.
Anyone who thinks either player is a threat to each other is not thinking clearly. Damian Harris is a thumper prototypical workhorse at 214 lbs. James Cook is 190 lbs 3rd down, scat back.
If you're on 3rd and short? Bring in Harris. Need to run a draw on 3rd and long? Bring in Cook. 1st and goal? Bring in Harris. 2 minute offense? Bring in Cook.
There's as much competition as Robinson and Antonio Gibson. Based on game scripts one may see more usage than the other, but it's a fullblown RBBC with obvious roles. You need Harris to keep Cook fresh. You need Cook to hit home runs. You need Harris to get those tough yards .
Both players have tremendous upside, but it won't be in relation to anyone's relative talent but more so what tools are needed for the job at the moment.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
The good news is you can get one or both and still be fine. Not sure about the Hate here. Cook higher than the 5th round is gambling that the preseason usage translates to the regular season. 6th round is likely a steal even if Harris was the lead back and cook was the COP and 3rd down back in that offense. Harris is a 13 plus round dart throw but don't be annoyed when someone picks Murray in Round 18 thinking the same thing...
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, you don't draft James Cook to get goalline carries.
Looking for Ekeler here.
If you size up the talents and pros and cons of Cook and Harris, and Harris makes you nervous, then you shouldn't chase Cook because clearly you don't think he's very good.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Do you feel the same way about Zeke and Rhamondre, FFWhiskey? Two years ago Zeke had 1000 yds and 12 total TDs.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Zeke also has a far better track record of health than Harris.
It’s a high powered offense. It sounds like Cook is going to command a decent target share. I’m in at ADP.
No, because Zeke had to beg for a job and is in a lesser timeshare and greater competition for carries.
Zeke averaged 3.8 YPC last season. He is cooked. If Harris was averaging sub 4.0 ypc, I wouldn't be arguing for him and Buffalo would not have signed him to be their 1B.
And listen fellas, I get it. James Cook is going at ADP 67. Damian Harris is going at ADP 125.
My views are contrarian to the consensus. I didn't expect to come in here and receive rampant support after every resource you guys have read for months has told you Cook good, Harris bad. It's a very "safe" take to forecast Cook to be more productive than Harris.
However, based on VBD I think Harris is a great selection to make this season. As someone else suggested, they could both end up outperforming ADP and we're arguing about whos sports car is fastest.
"Oh, yours is nice but I paid less for mine!!'
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Deamon
Footballguy
I've come to the conclusion that part of your job at FantasyPros is to give really bad advice on competitors' sites in order for them to look for a new site to follow/purchase from.
And we've got our first Fantasy Pros link! It's happening!The guy you're writing off has already done what you hope James Cook can do.
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB | FantasyPros
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Anyone that thinks that Harris will get more use than Cook simply hasn’t paid attention to a single thing said in Buffalo over the last 4 months and hasn’t been reading anything written by any of the local sports guys.
IMO, Harris and Murray will split some short yardage situations, short and goal carries, and get some touches here and there otherwise, but Buffalo views Cook far and away as their #1. I don’t care what anyone else thinks when the Bills themselves have made it abundantly clear that’s how they see things.
IMO, Harris and Murray will split some short yardage situations, short and goal carries, and get some touches here and there otherwise, but Buffalo views Cook far and away as their #1. I don’t care what anyone else thinks when the Bills themselves have made it abundantly clear that’s how they see things.
massraider
Footballguy
I'm not sure I disagree with this.
Cook is just a rookie, and if he is NOT ready for prime time, Harris could be good. I can see that.
Ya know, always possible with these rookies that they, you know.....suck. Cook could definitely suck.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
It’s Cook’s 2nd year…
Banger
Footballguy
And he was so good that he lost his job to Stevenson and they let him walk. You’re talking a different system, different team where he was the starter. I can show you a ton of examples of backs who had a job and performed well, lost the job and became journeymen. You talk about all these TD’s Harris is going to be scoring….the RBs scored a total of 7 td’s last year, 5 for singletary and 2 for cooks. for Harris to have the value you seem to be looking for he’d have to be Jamaal Williams from DET from last year and that ain’t happening in Buffalo.I repeat. Damian Harris was RB14 in PPR and RB8 in standard scoring two years ago. He scored 15 touchdowns. That's like catching 90 passes. You would fall out of your chair if Cook finished as RB8/RB15 in any format. The guy you're writing off has already done what you hope James Cook can do.I've come to the conclusion that part of your job at FantasyPros is to give really bad advice on competitors' sites in order for them to look for a new site to follow/purchase from.
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB | FantasyPros
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB
You can crap on Damian Harris and prefer James Cook's upside all you want, but Damian Harris already finished as RB8/15 and it only took him 200 carries in 2021 to accomplish that. I don't think 200 carries is a stretch, nor is 10+ touchdowns.
Again, Damian Harris is 26 years old and playing in the best offense of his career. He has done it for fantasy and real NFL. There's no reason to think he can't repeat his 2021 performance in a better offense. He is the Buffalo Bills' goal line back and before people got obsessed with receptions, we used to value goalline RBs who play in Top 5 offenses.
James Cook touched the ball 110 times last season. Let's not crown the guy prematurely. I like his YPC, but he'll need to catch more than 21 passes if he wants to compete with all the touchdowns Harris is going to be scoring.
I will believe that 190 lb James Cook can lead that team in usage when I see it. There is extensive data available on that loops back to essentially Warrick Dunn and a few other guys.
Otherwise, I couldn't name you 1 190 lb RB who lead his team in carries off thr top of my head.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s how I’ve read it all off-season, and the usage in the preseason hasn’t given me any reason to question it.
I grabbed Harris as a dart-throw in the later rounds in one league. I’m not expecting to count on him this year.
And he was so good that he lost his job to Stevenson and they let him walk. You’re talking a different system, different team where he was the starter. I can show you a ton of examples of backs who had a job and performed well, lost the job and became journeymen. You talk about all these TD’s Harris is going to be scoring….the RBs scored a total of 7 td’s last year, 5 for singletary and 2 for cooks. for Harris to have the value you seem to be looking for he’d have to be Jamaal Williams from DET from last year and that ain’t happening in Buffalo.I repeat. Damian Harris was RB14 in PPR and RB8 in standard scoring two years ago. He scored 15 touchdowns. That's like catching 90 passes. You would fall out of your chair if Cook finished as RB8/RB15 in any format. The guy you're writing off has already done what you hope James Cook can do.I've come to the conclusion that part of your job at FantasyPros is to give really bad advice on competitors' sites in order for them to look for a new site to follow/purchase from.
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB | FantasyPros
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB
You can crap on Damian Harris and prefer James Cook's upside all you want, but Damian Harris already finished as RB8/15 and it only took him 200 carries in 2021 to accomplish that. I don't think 200 carries is a stretch, nor is 10+ touchdowns.
Again, Damian Harris is 26 years old and playing in the best offense of his career. He has done it for fantasy and real NFL. There's no reason to think he can't repeat his 2021 performance in a better offense. He is the Buffalo Bills' goal line back and before people got obsessed with receptions, we used to value goalline RBs who play in Top 5 offenses.
James Cook touched the ball 110 times last season. Let's not crown the guy prematurely. I like his YPC, but he'll need to catch more than 21 passes if he wants to compete with all the touchdowns Harris is going to be scoring.
From my understanding, Harris was the starting RB until he got hurt last season. Not going to respond to the rest.
Look up historic 190 lb NFL RB and let me know how you feel about J Cook carrying a full load. You know, the kind of load Harris was carrying that lead to his injury last year.
Because a 190 lb RB could never get hurt if he saw 200+ touches.
Smaller running backs - History against Achane, Vaughn - Fantasy Index
History against Achane, Vaughn
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Value Based drafting?
No, because Zeke had to beg for a job and is in a lesser timeshare and greater competition for carries.
Zeke averaged 3.8 YPC last season. He is cooked. If Harris was averaging sub 4.0 ypc, I wouldn't be arguing for him and Buffalo would not have signed him to be their 1B.
And listen fellas, I get it. James Cook is going at ADP 67. Damian Harris is going at ADP 125.
My views are contrarian to the consensus. I didn't expect to come in here and receive rampant support after every resource you guys have read for months has told you Cook good, Harris bad. It's a very "safe" take to forecast Cook to be more productive than Harris.
However, based on VBD I think Harris is a great selection to make this season. As someone else suggested, they could both end up outperforming ADP and we're arguing about whos sports car is fastest.
"Oh, yours is nice but I paid less for mine!!'
Perhaps you mean something else?
I like Harris and I agree with your point that he might be a value considering how late you could get him. I just doubt he provides positive VBD unless your baseline is lower than the top 24 RBs.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Details.. =P
Banger
Footballguy
You’re not going to respond to the fact that Harris’ value is a goal line back for a team that doesn’t give rb’s many goal line opportunities? You’re quoting TD totals for a different team, when he was healthy and a starter…don’t understand the logic.And he was so good that he lost his job to Stevenson and they let him walk. You’re talking a different system, different team where he was the starter. I can show you a ton of examples of backs who had a job and performed well, lost the job and became journeymen. You talk about all these TD’s Harris is going to be scoring….the RBs scored a total of 7 td’s last year, 5 for singletary and 2 for cooks. for Harris to have the value you seem to be looking for he’d have to be Jamaal Williams from DET from last year and that ain’t happening in Buffalo.I repeat. Damian Harris was RB14 in PPR and RB8 in standard scoring two years ago. He scored 15 touchdowns. That's like catching 90 passes. You would fall out of your chair if Cook finished as RB8/RB15 in any format. The guy you're writing off has already done what you hope James Cook can do.I've come to the conclusion that part of your job at FantasyPros is to give really bad advice on competitors' sites in order for them to look for a new site to follow/purchase from.
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB | FantasyPros
Fantasy Football Leaders Weeks 1 to 18 - RB
You can crap on Damian Harris and prefer James Cook's upside all you want, but Damian Harris already finished as RB8/15 and it only took him 200 carries in 2021 to accomplish that. I don't think 200 carries is a stretch, nor is 10+ touchdowns.
Again, Damian Harris is 26 years old and playing in the best offense of his career. He has done it for fantasy and real NFL. There's no reason to think he can't repeat his 2021 performance in a better offense. He is the Buffalo Bills' goal line back and before people got obsessed with receptions, we used to value goalline RBs who play in Top 5 offenses.
James Cook touched the ball 110 times last season. Let's not crown the guy prematurely. I like his YPC, but he'll need to catch more than 21 passes if he wants to compete with all the touchdowns Harris is going to be scoring.
From my understanding, Harris was the starting RB until he got hurt last season. Not going to respond to the rest.
Look up historic 190 lb NFL RB and let me know how you feel about J Cook carrying a full load. You know, the kind or load Harris was carrying that lead to his injury last year.
Because a 190 lb RB could never get hurt if he saw 200+ touches.
Smaller running backs - History against Achane, Vaughn - Fantasy Index
History against Achane, Vaughnfantasyindex.com
Full loads for a rb are history…how many full load rb’s are there in the league in 2023?
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Its a solid argument, and puts harris in the same kind of conversations as Jaylen Warren, Devin Singeltary, Zeke, and Tank Bigsby if you want to start splitting hairs.
In all of these cases (except maybe singletary) there is some "stand alone" value to the player and they are much cheaper than say Montgomery for what could end up being the back half of your drafts. For those planning to mash WRs in the first 6 of nine rounds you could do worse than get a RB, a TE, and a QB plus 6 WRs and spend the rest of your draft just grabbing these type of guys.
In all of these cases (except maybe singletary) there is some "stand alone" value to the player and they are much cheaper than say Montgomery for what could end up being the back half of your drafts. For those planning to mash WRs in the first 6 of nine rounds you could do worse than get a RB, a TE, and a QB plus 6 WRs and spend the rest of your draft just grabbing these type of guys.
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