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Roe v. Wade Overturned (1 Viewer)

The extreme views expressed by @Stealthycat and @John123 in this thread, that teenagers who have abortions should face legal penalty including prison time, is a major reason why the Republican Party will suffer very significantly over this issue in future elections.

its biology 101

and its the laws that the people/state of Nebraska want

they're not what YOU want, so you label them "extreme" ... and I think the Democrats will suffer for continuing to insist on killing unborn
Have any comments on your incorrect math? And I highly doubt that the people of Nebraska want private messages between mother and daughter on facebook to be the impetus for a criminal case against a teenager for having an abortion
 
Have any comments on your incorrect math? And I highly doubt that the people of Nebraska want private messages between mother and daughter on facebook to be the impetus for a criminal case against a teenager for having an abortion

it was reported in weeks and 23 is close to 24 ... if it was reported in days you'd be close/more right

none the less, Nebraska has their law (its in weeks, not days or months) the mother and mother of mother violated that, killed the unborn and burned its body

frickin horrible and I hope they both rot in prison a long time for doing that


In one of the Facebook messages, Jessica Burgess, 41, tells her then 17-year-old daughter that she has obtained abortion pills for her and gives her instructions on how to take them to end the pregnancy.

The daughter, meanwhile, "talks about how she can't wait to get the 'thing' out of her body," a detective wrote in court documents. "I will finally be able to wear jeans," she says in one of the messages. Law enforcement authorities obtained the messages with a search warrant, and detailed some of them in court documents.

the man told investigators the mother and daughter did burn it

 
The extreme views expressed by @Stealthycat and @John123 in this thread, that teenagers who have abortions should face legal penalty including prison time, is a major reason why the Republican Party will suffer very significantly over this issue in future elections.
It will eventually hit home as someone they care about is going to "rot in jail for a very long time", but it will take a while before the abstract notion that we should punish murderers becomes the sick reality of locking up significant number of our mothers and daughters and sisters. Not to mention those that get the "death penalty" from complications of their home grown solutions. It will take a while before the realization is that choice is mostly NOT between saving the baby and losing the baby, but between losing just the baby or losing both the baby and the mother and possibly others. The immoral choice being made by these guys is because they and so many others accept the false premise. It will take time to get past that. And some won't ever get it. And some won't ever care.
 
it was reported in weeks and 23 is close to 24 ... if it was reported in days you'd be close/more right
No.

And either way 24 weeks is not 6 months. Unless you think there are only 48 weeks in a year?

It's OK to admit you are wrong. I am wrong all the time. No big deal.
 
It wasn't a 5 month old baby either.

can we agree that it was alive and human ? call it a fetus, a baby or a puppy .... but it was alive, and human, and protected by law, right ? and they killed the boy/girl, ended the pregnancy, burned the boy/girl and buried her/him

just gawd awful
We can agree that it was not a 5 or 6 month old baby. How about that?
I want to know why we would call it a puppy if it was a human as well.
 
It wasn't a 5 month old baby either.

can we agree that it was alive and human ? call it a fetus, a baby or a puppy .... but it was alive, and human, and protected by law, right ? and they killed the boy/girl, ended the pregnancy, burned the boy/girl and buried her/him

just gawd awful
We can agree that it was not a 5 or 6 month old baby. How about that?
I want to know why we would call it a puppy if it was a human as well.
Why do some men call themselves women and vice versa?
 
Why do some men call themselves women and vice versa?
I'm okay with you guys calling it a baby, and I'm okay with respecting the wishes of the fetus if it were to communicate that it wants to be known as "5-months-old". Just like fetus, or baby if you prefer has every right to stand its ground and exercise everything that it can to defend its right to life.
 
A Republican state delegate from West Virginia, Chris Pritt is suggesting that we do away with child support so that men do not try to convince women to get abortions

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1553773183697829893?s=20&t=DQMvLUAo3PEMPm7UtLELRw


that's not what he's saying at all IMO
So... what's he saying? I watched the clip and struggled to come up with a different understanding.

And ladies, to be fair to us, I also believe that if you decide to have the baby, a man should not have to pay. That’s fair. If you can kill this ############, I can at least abandon them. It’s my money, my choice.

- Dave Chapelle
 
A Republican state delegate from West Virginia, Chris Pritt is suggesting that we do away with child support so that men do not try to convince women to get abortions

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1553773183697829893?s=20&t=DQMvLUAo3PEMPm7UtLELRw


that's not what he's saying at all IMO
So... what's he saying? I watched the clip and struggled to come up with a different understanding.

And ladies, to be fair to us, I also believe that if you decide to have the baby, a man should not have to pay. That’s fair. If you can kill this ############, I can at least abandon them. It’s my money, my choice.

- Dave Chapelle
So you agree that is what the politician is saying?


(If unclear, I'm not arguing about or even commenting on the statement - I just am genuinely confused by Stealthy's statement when he implies that the politician is making a different point)
 
A Republican state delegate from West Virginia, Chris Pritt is suggesting that we do away with child support so that men do not try to convince women to get abortions

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1553773183697829893?s=20&t=DQMvLUAo3PEMPm7UtLELRw


that's not what he's saying at all IMO
So... what's he saying? I watched the clip and struggled to come up with a different understanding.

And ladies, to be fair to us, I also believe that if you decide to have the baby, a man should not have to pay. That’s fair. If you can kill this ############, I can at least abandon them. It’s my money, my choice.

- Dave Chapelle
So you agree that is what the politician is saying?


(If unclear, I'm not arguing about or even commenting on the statement - I just am genuinely confused by Stealthy's statement when he implies that the politician is making a different point)

I just brought up Chapelle to be funny, but he does have a point. :)

Ultimately, the child needs to be taken care of and that should be by both parents. I certainly don't think we should take away child support.
 
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So... what's he saying? I watched the clip and struggled to come up with a different understanding.



To me, he's saying that a man shouldn't be putting such force into convincing a woman to get an abortion. I don't what that second amendment reference is .... did he say ANYTHING about getting rid of child support ?



"If she carries through with the pregnancy, he's going to have, possibly, some sort of child support obligation. And, so, what he wants to do is, he wants to — in a sense — encourage her to go and find a way for her to get an abortion."
"Because he knows that a certain individual — if he has any kind of familiarity with her, he knows that she might be of such a state of mind, she must be in such a vulnerable position that it's not worth everything that he's going to put me through to carry this pregnancy forward."
"It's going to be easier, it's going to be better, for me to just go and terminate this 'life.' So she goes over to Virginia or to some other state where she goes and gets the abortion."
"So, I think that's a really clear possibility if we enact the Second Amendment here, I don't want to be doing anything that is encouraging thugs to go and get an abortion."
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
Gonna need some context here buddy. No idea what you are talking about
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
Gonna need some context here buddy. No idea what you are talking about
My SIL called my wife yesterday asking some questions about methotrexate as my niece takes it for an autoimmune issue. She went to go get the monthly prescription filled and was presented a BUNCH of questions. Pharmacist, initially, didn't want to fill the Rx because apparently, the drug can also be used as an abortion drug. This was in SC where such rules don't even exist (yet). Went googling about this and found a bunch of instances where cancer patients, autoimmune patients, Chrones patients etc have been denied the drugs out of fear of prosecution by the state for giving out "abortion drugs". Had no idea this was going on.
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
Gonna need some context here buddy. No idea what you are talking about
My SIL called my wife yesterday asking some questions about methotrexate as my niece takes it for an autoimmune issue. She went to go get the monthly prescription filled and was presented a BUNCH of questions. Pharmacist, initially, didn't want to fill the Rx because apparently, the drug can also be used as an abortion drug. This was in SC where such rules don't even exist (yet). Went googling about this and found a bunch of instances where cancer patients, autoimmune patients, Chrones patients etc have been denied the drugs out of fear of prosecution by the state for giving out "abortion drugs". Had no idea this was going on.
Inevitable conclusion to this lunacy and our lovely new culture of threat of lawsuits for anybody aiding this process in any way.
 
So... what's he saying? I watched the clip and struggled to come up with a different understanding.



To me, he's saying that a man shouldn't be putting such force into convincing a woman to get an abortion. I don't what that second amendment reference is .... did he say ANYTHING about getting rid of child support ?



"If she carries through with the pregnancy, he's going to have, possibly, some sort of child support obligation. And, so, what he wants to do is, he wants to — in a sense — encourage her to go and find a way for her to get an abortion."
"Because he knows that a certain individual — if he has any kind of familiarity with her, he knows that she might be of such a state of mind, she must be in such a vulnerable position that it's not worth everything that he's going to put me through to carry this pregnancy forward."
"It's going to be easier, it's going to be better, for me to just go and terminate this 'life.' So she goes over to Virginia or to some other state where she goes and gets the abortion."
"So, I think that's a really clear possibility if we enact the Second Amendment here, I don't want to be doing anything that is encouraging thugs to go and get an abortion."
I think a very reasonable inference can be drawn based on the bold that he's suggesting his state eliminate child support because otherwise "thugs" may be incentivize to coerce women into having abortions.

Of course, it may also be possible that this politician is wholly nonsensical (I agree with you that the 2nd Amendment reference has nothing to do with anything) - which may be even more scary because he is actually a part of making laws.
 
I think a very reasonable inference can be drawn based on the bold that he's suggesting his state eliminate child support because otherwise "thugs" may be incentivize to coerce women into having abortions.

Of course, it may also be possible that this politician is wholly nonsensical (I agree with you that the 2nd Amendment reference has nothing to do with anything) - which may be even more scary because he is actually a part of making laws.

right, he didn't say eliminate child support

people want to draw conclusions so they can use it for an argument .... but what was reported wasn't actually said - this is where media lies, and people just read the headlines and believe what they're told



NEWS

GOP WV Rep. Calls For Child Support Ban Because Making Men Pay Could 'Encourage' Abortion

 
I think a very reasonable inference can be drawn based on the bold that he's suggesting his state eliminate child support because otherwise "thugs" may be incentivize to coerce women into having abortions.

Of course, it may also be possible that this politician is wholly nonsensical (I agree with you that the 2nd Amendment reference has nothing to do with anything) - which may be even more scary because he is actually a part of making laws.

right, he didn't say eliminate child support

people want to draw conclusions so they can use it for an argument .... but what was reported wasn't actually said - this is where media lies, and people just read the headlines and believe what they're told



NEWS

GOP WV Rep. Calls For Child Support Ban Because Making Men Pay Could 'Encourage' Abortion

I read what he says and my objective takeaway remains the same as the title of the article. And I'm certainly not lying when I say that.
 
I read what he says and my objective takeaway remains the same as the title of the article. And I'm certainly not lying when I say that.

can you show me the quote where he called for child support ban ? or any words he used to indicate he wanted to do away with child support ?

I read it as the guy is going to have to pay child support and because of that, he's going to try and force the woman to have an abortion and he doesn't want the woman subjected to a man doing that. The reason is the child support - but he never called for it to be removed

unless there is more to what I read
 
I read what he says and my objective takeaway remains the same as the title of the article. And I'm certainly not lying when I say that.

can you show me the quote where he called for child support ban ? or any words he used to indicate he wanted to do away with child support ?
I literally bolded it above. And explained that a reader may draw a reasonable inference from his (somewhat incoherent) statements. Obviously we can't jump inside his minds and he didn't verbatim say "let's get rid of child support."

But drawing a reasonable inference in a fair context isn't lying.

It's kind of like this:

Me: I won't support any team that signs Deshaun Watson because I think he's a sexual predator.

Me (a few sentences later): I'm a Vikings fan.

Now, I didn't literally say that I would stop being a Vikings fan if they signed Watson but you can certainly see how one would conclude that I very well may, right?
 
I literally bolded it above. And explained that a reader may draw a reasonable inference from his (somewhat incoherent) statements. Obviously we can't jump inside his minds and he didn't verbatim say "let's get rid of child support."

But drawing a reasonable inference in a fair context isn't lying.

It's kind of like this:

Me: I won't support any team that signs Deshaun Watson because I think he's a sexual predator.

Me (a few sentences later): I'm a Vikings fan.

Now, I didn't literally say that I would stop being a Vikings fan if they signed Watson but you can certainly see how one would conclude that I very well may, right?

you are not good at analogies


its kinda like this


"If she carries through with buying the new car, he's going to have, possibly, some sort of obligation to pay the monthly payments. And, so, what he wants to do is, he wants to — in a sense — encourage her to not buy the new car, to get used car or not buy one at all .Because he knows that she might be of such a state of mind, she must be in such a vulnerable position that it's not worth everything that he's going to put me through to buy new car. It's going to be easier, it's going to be better, for me to just not buy the new car.



Headline new – GOP senator wants to ban new car sales to women !! When really, he's saying the man shouldn't be pressuring the woman
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
Gonna need some context here buddy. No idea what you are talking about
My SIL called my wife yesterday asking some questions about methotrexate as my niece takes it for an autoimmune issue. She went to go get the monthly prescription filled and was presented a BUNCH of questions. Pharmacist, initially, didn't want to fill the Rx because apparently, the drug can also be used as an abortion drug. This was in SC where such rules don't even exist (yet). Went googling about this and found a bunch of instances where cancer patients, autoimmune patients, Chrones patients etc have been denied the drugs out of fear of prosecution by the state for giving out "abortion drugs". Had no idea this was going on.
Inevitable conclusion to this lunacy and our lovely new culture of threat of lawsuits for anybody aiding this process in any way.
That will get absolutely ignored in threads like this one unfortunately. Not a lot of honest discussion to be had in here.
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
Gonna need some context here buddy. No idea what you are talking about
My SIL called my wife yesterday asking some questions about methotrexate as my niece takes it for an autoimmune issue. She went to go get the monthly prescription filled and was presented a BUNCH of questions. Pharmacist, initially, didn't want to fill the Rx because apparently, the drug can also be used as an abortion drug. This was in SC where such rules don't even exist (yet). Went googling about this and found a bunch of instances where cancer patients, autoimmune patients, Chrones patients etc have been denied the drugs out of fear of prosecution by the state for giving out "abortion drugs". Had no idea this was going on.
Pharmacist can choose to fill what they want. Go find another pharmacist.
 
methotrexate is under attack now? yeah...this is going to end well. I can't imagine being a doctor or a pharmacist in one of these states where you have to be worried about prescribing ordinary, everyday drugs. yeesh.
Gonna need some context here buddy. No idea what you are talking about
My SIL called my wife yesterday asking some questions about methotrexate as my niece takes it for an autoimmune issue. She went to go get the monthly prescription filled and was presented a BUNCH of questions. Pharmacist, initially, didn't want to fill the Rx because apparently, the drug can also be used as an abortion drug. This was in SC where such rules don't even exist (yet). Went googling about this and found a bunch of instances where cancer patients, autoimmune patients, Chrones patients etc have been denied the drugs out of fear of prosecution by the state for giving out "abortion drugs". Had no idea this was going on.
Pharmacist can choose to fill what they want. Go find another pharmacist.
Thanks for illustrating my point, but I'm more in favor of the "fix the problem" approach over the "play with the symptoms" approach :shrug:
 
How Doctors Can Use Medical Billing to Sabotage Abortion Ban

I don't think this would work in our current climate...but thought I'd share.

Small excerpt:
Macauley wrote:

The threat itself may be enough to force the government to realize that while special interests (like the health insurance industry) have the money, physicians themselves have the power to document and bill and therefore to change the system. For the sake of the tens of millions of patients currently without health insurance, physicians must be willing to risk much of what they hold dear: their reputations, their incomes, their status in society. Only through self-sacrifice will sea change be effected, but with sufficient devotion and commitment, the goal is attainable.

Two decades later—when more than 31 million Americans remain uninsured, thousands continue to die each month due to for-profit healthcare exclusion, and U.S. doctors are rewarded with the world’s highest physician incomes—the medical profession has yet to take such risks. Now, in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision on abortion care, the majority of doctors, hospitals, and organizations like Planned Parenthood are not only declining to resist legal restrictions that further deny care to our patients; many are preemptively canceling appointments and denying people abortion care in anticipation of possible future liability.

This behavior is in line with the observations of historian Timothy Snyder, who has written, “Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think about what a more repressive government will want, and then offer themselves without being asked. A citizen who adapts in this way is teaching power what it can do.” For doctors in America’s famously hierarchical and risk-averse medical culture, we have long been trained to obey the rules without questioning them; when the rules contravene our mandate to provide care, however, we must check our ingrained impulses.

Doctors in America now face a choice: we can submit to legal decisions—imposed by an anti-democratic institution—that harm our patients while we enjoy the benefits of complicity with state-sanctioned violence, or we can organize to provide care to our patients while accepting the personal hazards that come with fulfilling our ethical obligations as privileged caregivers.

As moral philosopher John Rawls wrote, in the practice of civil disobedience, “We must pay a certain price to convince others that our actions have, in our carefully considered view, a sufficient moral basis in the political convictions of the community.” By defying the law and aligning ourselves with our patients rather than repressive legal systems, some doctors may incur professional penalties or even criminal prosecution. This may be unavoidable in some cases, but a politics predicated primarily on heroic individual self-sacrifice is not a viable path forward.

What we need is strategic, organized refusals to cooperate with unjust laws such that we take on risk not as isolated doctors but as coordinated collectives. Work stoppages, which would in many instances not just inconvenience administrators and officials but also harm our patients, are not our only option. In America’s fee-for-service healthcare system that’s been so thoroughly constructed around billing codes, documentary disobedience may be our most effective tactic.

Rather than recording abortion care under an individual doctor’s name, for example, the entire staff of a hospital or clinic could co-sign in open violation of repressive laws. Alternatively, we could together refuse to document or bill for abortion and prenatal care prior to fetal viability at twenty-four weeks’ gestation, instead filing this care under other medical billing codes and shifting its cost to the rest of our healthcare systems. Going further, to demand changes to unjust laws, we could strategically send public and private insurance systems into chaos within days via organized false billing without ever interrupting delivery of services to our patients. In all of this, we would need to compel our healthcare institutions, which depend on their physician employees and cannot operate without us, to join in refusing to comply with legal obstructions to care.

Healthcare’s powerful professional organizations, such as the American Medical Association, American Nurses Association, and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, for example, could use their resources to help organize healthcare workers and issue guidance on how to document care to circumvent individual legal liability insofar as possible. They could also petition private healthcare companies to donate to this cause, put pressure on state medical boards to refuse to pursue punitive measures against doctors and nurses who break abortion laws in service of patient care, and guarantee legal and economic support for healthcare workers if they are legally threatened for providing medically appropriate care.

With careful preparation, we should challenge those states seeking to criminalize abortion care to prosecute tens of thousands of their doctors and put hundreds of their hospitals out of operation. Dare state governments to bring their entire healthcare systems to a standstill. Make those who would seek to deny abortion care to their constituents face consequences. Few politicians, if any, would see this through if the medical profession used its full power to oppose them. And if they are foolish enough to try and if doctors are committed enough to hold their ethical ground, those politicians would not remain in power for long.
By embracing a politics of care rather than of compliance, American physicians have an opportunity to rectify our historical failures to show up politically for our patients and for healthcare as a right. We should together heed the advice of Henry David Thoreau, who wrote in On the Duty of Civil Disobedience, “Cast your whole vote, not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence. A minority is powerless while it conforms to the majority; it is not even a minority then; but it is irresistible when it clogs by its whole weight.” The weight of one million American physicians would be considerable.
 
Florida court rules that a 16 year old, without any parents, is “not mature enough” to decide to have an abortion:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/17/florida-teen-abortion-denied-mature/
But she’s mature enough to be forced by the government to have a baby? Completely outrageous.

now that she's chosen to have sex, made the choice and got pregnant, this will go one of two way

the baby dies, and the pregnancy ends, or the baby is born alive


the outrageous thing is to champion for killing the baby IMO
 
Yep, it's getting as crazy as I feared it would eventually.

Like I said in another post, the surprise for me is it came this quickly. Dumb on their part, but I am glad they showed their true colors and hopefully people will vote accordingly.
 
Florida court rules that a 16 year old, without any parents, is “not mature enough” to decide to have an abortion:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/17/florida-teen-abortion-denied-mature/
But she’s mature enough to be forced by the government to have a baby? Completely outrageous.

now that she's chosen to have sex, made the choice and got pregnant, this will go one of two way

the baby dies, and the pregnancy ends, or the baby is born alive


the outrageous thing is to champion for killing the baby IMO
The bold doesn't end the analysis, however. How is this baby going to possibly survive with a 16 year old mother? 16 year old cannot financially provide for themselves let alone an infant. I assume then you're for significant liberal programs to utilize tax dollars to help this mother and child since she had no other option but to have it?
 
How is this baby going to possibly survive with a 16 year old mother? 16 year old cannot financially provide for themselves let alone an infant. I assume then you're for significant liberal programs to utilize tax dollars to help this mother and child since she had no other option but to have it?
The baby needs to step up and demonstrate some personal responsibility! Geez, how much more is the baby going to ask of us? Are we supposed to care about its life forever?
 
Fascinating discussion on Meet the Press this morning about the continuing political ramifications of this decision. Rich Lowery, the lone Republican on the panel, kept trying to argue that it wasn’t going to be that bad once the GOP fixed their messaging, which has already started: that all of these new laws had exceptions for the health of the mother (he was sharply contradicted on that claim.) But even he admitted that the laws were confusing and that Republicans weren’t prepared for the backlash.
 
The states' rights argument seems pretty disingenuous today.

Graham introducing 15-week abortion ban, says bill may help GOP in midterms Supreme Court overturned Roe precedent earlier this year, allowing state legislatures to regulate abortion

"Many GOP-controlled states are pushing different forms of abortion bans or restrictions, and some national-level Republicans want the federal government to stay out of the debate. However, Graham's bill will mark the most high-profile national GOP effort on abortion to restrict abortion so far."
 
The states' rights argument seems pretty disingenuous today.

Graham introducing 15-week abortion ban, says bill may help GOP in midterms Supreme Court overturned Roe precedent earlier this year, allowing state legislatures to regulate abortion

"Many GOP-controlled states are pushing different forms of abortion bans or restrictions, and some national-level Republicans want the federal government to stay out of the debate. However, Graham's bill will mark the most high-profile national GOP effort on abortion to restrict abortion so far."

Do you really think Democrats want a reasonable solution to abortion? Democrats are akin to the pharmaceutical industry, there is no money in the cure.
 
Do you really think Democrats want a reasonable solution to abortion?
Abortion should be between the pregnant woman, her family, and her doctor is a reasonable solution to abortion. In fact, for reasons stated several times in this and other threads this is the only reasonable solution. Though there are ways to set this up such that it looks like a compromise to those that think government can effectively have a say as they timely, quickly rubber stamp.
 
The states' rights argument seems pretty disingenuous today.

Graham introducing 15-week abortion ban, says bill may help GOP in midterms Supreme Court overturned Roe precedent earlier this year, allowing state legislatures to regulate abortion

"Many GOP-controlled states are pushing different forms of abortion bans or restrictions, and some national-level Republicans want the federal government to stay out of the debate. However, Graham's bill will mark the most high-profile national GOP effort on abortion to restrict abortion so far."

Do you really think Democrats want a reasonable solution to abortion? Democrats are akin to the pharmaceutical industry, there is no money in the cure.
On the issue of abortion itself, most Democrats, like most Americans, want abortion to be legal at least in the early-middle stages of pregnancy. As for whether the right cutoff is 15 weeks or 24 weeks or whatever, different Democrats, like different Americans, will have different preferences.

As a party, with regard to their electoral chances in coming elections, Democrats should like things exactly as they are: the issue is on the ballot (thanks to Dobbs), and the Republican position is generally unpopular. Graham's bill helps reinforce the notion that the issue is on the ballot, which would seem to help Democrats.
 
Something I just learned about the Graham bill today: It's not a compromise. A compromise would be, "States can't ban abortion before 14 weeks, but also can't allow it after then." His bill only includes the second part. The net result if it were to pass would be that pro-life states would be free to ban it at conception if they wanted to, but pro-choice states would have their hands tied.
 
Something I just learned about the Graham bill today: It's not a compromise. A compromise would be, "States can't ban abortion before 14 weeks, but also can't allow it after then." His bill only includes the second part. The net result if it were to pass would be that pro-life states would be free to ban it at conception if they wanted to, but pro-choice states would have their hands tied.
Just like it wasn't a compromise when he tried the same thing for 20 weeks a while back.
 
Something I just learned about the Graham bill today: It's not a compromise. A compromise would be, "States can't ban abortion before 14 weeks, but also can't allow it after then." His bill only includes the second part. The net result if it were to pass would be that pro-life states would be free to ban it at conception if they wanted to, but pro-choice states would have their hands tied.
So no different than the previous "compromises" that the unreasonable democrats rejected.

Once again - Too slow!
 
Do you really think Democrats want a reasonable solution to abortion?
Abortion should be between the pregnant woman, her family, and her doctor is a reasonable solution to abortion. In fact, for reasons stated several times in this and other threads this is the only reasonable solution. Though there are ways to set this up such that it looks like a compromise to those that think government can effectively have a say as they timely, quickly rubber stamp.

Missing someone in that decision.
 

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