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Shogun coming to TV (again) (1 Viewer)

NewlyRetired said:
FatMax said:

But I can't think of a single person who preferred a full screen 4:3 over the widescreen. You definitely did lose something there, quite literally. And the auto-conversions were awful.
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You would be shocked then how many people back in the day were convinced full screen gave more of the movie than wide screen.

It was so bad that the studios were extremely reluctant to release anything to home video OAR when 4:3 sets were heavily in the majority.
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Pan-and-scan is the Devil's Workshop. Hates it, I does.
 
Mrs. Rannous said:
I can't watch the action or the emotions of the characters while reading. I miss half of everything. I don't mind subtitles, but I have to watch the whole thing twice to get the entire story.
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When I was younger and first started getting into anime, I remember lowering my eye gaze, reading every word and then raising my eye gaze to catch what little of the scene I could before lowering again to read every word.

But some where along the way, that stopped happening. I don't know why or how, but my brain just got trained into doing both at the same time. I think I just take a snap shot of the words in an instant glance and then the words slowly play out in my head while watching the scene.

But this was after years and years of watching subtitles. It is probably not something that happens quickly for most people.
 
Mrs. Rannous said:
NewlyRetired said:
FatMax said:

But I can't think of a single person who preferred a full screen 4:3 over the widescreen. You definitely did lose something there, quite literally. And the auto-conversions were awful.
Click to expand...
You would be shocked then how many people back in the day were convinced full screen gave more of the movie than wide screen.

It was so bad that the studios were extremely reluctant to release anything to home video OAR when 4:3 sets were heavily in the majority.
Click to expand...
Pan-and-scan is the Devil's Workshop. Hates it, I does.
Click to expand...
This is a perfect example of how much the studios did not believe the audience wanted OAR. They went out of their way to spend MORE money to create the dreaded pan and scan rather than just release the movie as shown in a movie theater.

Back in the day I was pretty deep in the home theater community of the late 90's and we often had (what would now be called AMA's) with heads of the various home entertainment production studios on the home theater forums.

Since we were the hard core nuts, we were constantly badgering them to release movies in OAR and to a fault, every one said their number one complaint they would hear and number 1 reason items were getting returned was that the buyer did not want wide screen on their 4:3 sets.

Thank god widescreen sets finally had at least a small amount of penetration in the market by the early 2000's that the companies were willing, at least in most cases, to release both full and wide screen.

Of course that just led to another battle where the studios cropped 2.35 down to 1.77 thinking that owners were still not going to want to see any black bars, but that was an easier battle to win.
 
NewlyRetired said:
Mrs. Rannous said:
I can't watch the action or the emotions of the characters while reading. I miss half of everything. I don't mind subtitles, but I have to watch the whole thing twice to get the entire story.
Click to expand...
When I was younger and first started getting into anime, I remember lowering my eye gaze, reading every word and then raising my eye gaze to catch what little of the scene I could before lowering again to read every word.

But some where along the way, that stopped happening. I don't know why or how, but my brain just got trained into doing both at the same time. I think I just take a snap shot of the words in an instant glance and then the words slowly play out in my head while watching the scene.

But this was after years and years of watching subtitles. It is probably not something that happens quickly for most people.
Click to expand...

With me, I have never been a strong reader. I'm sure it's some un-diagnosed mental condition, but I tend to try to read ahead and end up skipping entire words if I'm not really focusing. It really rears it's ugly head when I'm reading something aloud. I would be most bumbling politician ever if I had read a teleprompter regularly.

I guess the point is that it's tough for me to pay close attention to both at the same time. I'm kinda envious of how you describe it.
 
timschochet said:
Shogun by James Clavell is my favorite novel of all time. I first read it when I was 13 and have read it many many times since. I find it completely captivating.
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Fantastic "epic novel" for sure. And like you, I also bogged down in some of his other books, so for me this was his masterwork.

The only books that I have read that I would put against Shogun from an "epic novel" standpoint would be Wouk's two-fer Winds of War and War and Remembrance. And even there, the second book bogged down slightly in just a few places. Oh, and Rhoda was annoying.

You ever read Cry the Beloved Country?
 
Sleestak said:
timschochet said:
Shogun by James Clavell is my favorite novel of all time. I first read it when I was 13 and have read it many many times since. I find it completely captivating.
Click to expand...
Fantastic "epic novel" for sure. And like you, I also bogged down in some of his other books, so for me this was his masterwork.

The only books that I have read that I would put against Shogun from an "epic novel" standpoint would be Wouk's two-fer Winds of War and War and Remembrance. And even there, the second book bogged down slightly in just a few places. Oh, and Rhoda was annoying.

You ever read Cry the Beloved Country?
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Yes and yes, and the Wouk is also among my favorite novels.

For books on Apartheid my favorite is Bryce Courtenay: The Power of One and Tandia
 
FatMax said:
NewlyRetired said:
Mrs. Rannous said:
I can't watch the action or the emotions of the characters while reading. I miss half of everything. I don't mind subtitles, but I have to watch the whole thing twice to get the entire story.
Click to expand...
When I was younger and first started getting into anime, I remember lowering my eye gaze, reading every word and then raising my eye gaze to catch what little of the scene I could before lowering again to read every word.

But some where along the way, that stopped happening. I don't know why or how, but my brain just got trained into doing both at the same time. I think I just take a snap shot of the words in an instant glance and then the words slowly play out in my head while watching the scene.

But this was after years and years of watching subtitles. It is probably not something that happens quickly for most people.
Click to expand...

With me, I have never been a strong reader. I'm sure it's some un-diagnosed mental condition, but I tend to try to read ahead and end up skipping entire words if I'm not really focusing. It really rears it's ugly head when I'm reading something aloud. I would be most bumbling politician ever if I had read a teleprompter regularly.

I guess the point is that it's tough for me to pay close attention to both at the same time. I'm kinda envious of how you describe it.
Click to expand...
I'm a very strong reader, but i still can't do both at once. A good actor has more going on than I can see if I have to read as well.
 
The Three Body Problem was difficult with subtitles. Many times it went so fast you couldnt possibly read it all.
 
I'm most way through the first episode. It's OK. Maybe my expectations were too high, but this I struggled to keep my attention. I might just wait for them all to come out and binge it.
 
I'm confused about streaming for this .. plus I'm old and cheap

I thought this would only be on Hulu. But it looks like it's on my YoutubeTV through Video on Demand for free. Is that right, or am I gonna get booted after I start it. I don't want to get it going then get hammered out of it.
 
Brunell4MVP said:
I'm confused about streaming for this .. plus I'm old and cheap

I thought this would only be on Hulu. But it looks like it's on my YoutubeTV through Video on Demand for free. Is that right, or am I gonna get booted after I start it. I don't want to get it going then get hammered out of it.
Click to expand...

It’s on FX. You can record it to your DVR. VOD might have commercials, not sure. It’s also on Hulu.
 
bigbottom said:
So I hear the Japanese dialogue is in Japanese but the Portuguese dialogue is in English?
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That was the only thing I didn’t like.



They call a character “English” but he can speak Portuguese, yet they never differentiate the two when spoken. They mentioned he and another character speak Portuguese and that’s it. It just goes from Japanese to English in the language spoken.

:shrug:

I thought they should have handled that way better.
 
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
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But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
 
El Floppo said:
TennesseeJed said:
The Gator said:
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
Click to expand...


But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
Click to expand...
Oh, I saw Mariko - Ronaldo would approve of anything she said...
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Same actress from Monarch, I think. She's purty
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I did not even think of that.

She is not unattractive - at all.
 
bigbottom said:
So I hear the Japanese dialogue is in Japanese but the Portuguese dialogue is in English?
Click to expand...
I think it works. The Japanese cast have a lot of charisma that really shines through to me with them speaking their native language. Whereas, Mariko's seeming somewhat more hesitant in English (Portuguese) makes sense what with her still being a student of the language. And it's not an insignificant plot point that Blackthorn can't understand his captors/hosts. Of course, I've never found subtitles particularly distracting so your mileage may vary.

Anyway, I watched the first two episodes last night and thought it was very promising. Someone pointed on Twitter something that instantly resonated with me, which is that this is the very rare show made in the past 5 years or so where they actually seem to know how to freaking light the screen.
 
The Gator said:
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
Click to expand...


But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
Click to expand...
I won't to pretend to know the actual history from that time period..... but one dude is from england, the others portugal and spain.

DId the guy from England speak portugese as his first language? THe spaniards also?

I think they are just saying Portuguese since thats where the non Japanese are from and its a different language then Japan :shrug:
 
belljr said:
The Gator said:
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
Click to expand...


But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
Click to expand...
I won't to pretend to know the actual history from that time period..... but one dude is from england, the others portugal and spain.

DId the guy from England speak portugese as his first language? THe spaniards also?

I think they are just saying Portuguese since thats where the non Japanese are from and its a different language then Japan :shrug:
Click to expand...
The guy from England is multi-lingual. There are both Portuguese and Spanish characters in the story.
 
Really enjoyed the first two episodes. It is refreshing to not know where a story is headed, as I have never read the book.

I enjoyed the Japanese subtitles with the English as Portuguese. It emphasizes the importance of being able to speak Japanese and the problems it presents to the Blackthorne character. Not sure how that difficulty would play if all the characters were speaking English. I don't know how viable it would be to find acters that speak Portuguese and Japanese. It also helps transport me to Japan and make it feel authentic and foreign. Even though Japanese from the 1600s probably doesn't match well to modern Japanese just like 1600s English is different from modern English.
 
There’s some subtle differences in the characters from the novel. Blackthorne in particular is quite a different person. But I don’t mind the change.
 
Capella said:
The Gator said:
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
Click to expand...


But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
Click to expand...
I think the point is to make money, which requires Americans to watch. 100% subtitles ain’t gonna help that.
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Never thought I'd see the day where people were clamoring for more subtitles.

Anyway, I think they've done a great job and certainly better than the miniseries from ~40 years ago.
Curious as to whether all the episodes will be movie length. Guess we'll see
 
kupcho1 said:
Capella said:
The Gator said:
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
Click to expand...


But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
Click to expand...
I think the point is to make money, which requires Americans to watch. 100% subtitles ain’t gonna help that.
Click to expand...
Never thought I'd see the day where people were clamoring for more subtitles.
Click to expand...
for me, the Japanese language is beautiful to listen to. Bring it on
 
The Gator said:
kupcho1 said:
Capella said:
The Gator said:
El Floppo said:
Ftr, I'm good with Portuguenglish. Otherwise it's all subtitles, which distracts a bit from really nice world building.
Click to expand...


But then what’s the point of specifically pointing out the Portuguese language is being spoken/learned?

Ronaldo would not approve.
Click to expand...
I think the point is to make money, which requires Americans to watch. 100% subtitles ain’t gonna help that.
Click to expand...
Never thought I'd see the day where people were clamoring for more subtitles.
Click to expand...
for me, the Japanese language is beautiful to listen to. Bring it on
Click to expand...
Agree but I think the point was we would need subtitles for Japanese, Portuguese and possibly Spanish so the whole show would be subtitles
 
Well done so far. But like the 80s variation better.

For example the prison scene in the first was longer and provided more detail and background.

Another though a small thing was when Blackthorne first meets Toranaga, Ishido comes to confront them. Just before Ishido enters the room Toranaga has Blackthorns sit next to him so that Ishido won’t slice his head off.

Another point in the first one was at the beginning when the guards go into the pit to forcibly pull up one of the sailors, one of the guards is overpowered and knocked out and left in the pit. The guard upon waking kills himself for his disgrace for failing.

Another scene focused on the revulsion the Japanese women had when first bathing Blackthorns but carried out their duty.

To me these small things added up and were truer to the book and provided more insight into the Japanese culture.

Also enjoyed Orson Welles narration in the first which helped the flow and background.
 
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