What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Shooting At Aurora, Colorado Movie Theater (1 Viewer)

Seems to me it took a little time for the VT shooters history to come to light. We don't really know what he has done. Absence of a criminal record doesn't mean an absence of a mental record. Those are private and protected by law. So we may want to wait before we say he did or didn't show signs. Heck it could be something organic that just came on for all we know or he could have been torturing animals since he was a kid. We just don't know. But I have no problem labeling a guy who goes into a theater and shoots dozens of strangers mentally ill.
Couldn't he have just been an angry, angry man? Bill Ayers killed people. Is he mentally ill?
That kind of anger is a mental illness. And really I don't want to start another political fight so I'll leave the Ayers thing alone.
I would post the wide eyed laughing icon but it just doesn't seem appropriate in this thread. But I've never heard of people being angry being called a mental illness.
:goodposting: The guy could just be an evil, angry SOB. It doesn't necessarily mean he has some sort of mental illness.
Do you ever get angry? Does it lead to killing 12 people and wounding 38 others? Of course it doesn't. That's because you have control. If this is the result of anger then this guy has serious emotional issues which would be serious enough to qualify as a pathology. And the most evil people generally are psycho or sociopaths. Notice the path at the end? That suggests illness as it is also a pathology.
 
Why is there a resistance to call this guy mentally ill? Of course he is mentally ill. Nobody shoots into a crowd of people he doesn't know without mental illness.
Because it is an asinine point until more info comes out. Folks will form initial opinions that differ on any number of possible topics related to the incident. Why do you jump in every page or two and attempt to turn the conversation towards tangential topics like this or the role sex/upbringing... impact this type of behavior. We are still in the information gathering phase. Give it a rest.
:goodposting: simma down timma
 
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) said Friday that the shootings that took place in an Aurora, Colo. movie theater hours earlier were a result of "ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs" and questioned why nobody else in the theater had a gun to take down the shooter.During a radio interview on The Heritage Foundation's "Istook Live!" show, Gohmert was asked why he believes such senseless acts of violence take place. Gohmert responded by talking about the weakening of Christian values in the country."You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless crazy act of a derelict takes place," Gohmert said.
awesome
Member of Westboro?
what.. in... the...Have politicians always been this stupid? I'm amazed at the number of flat out idiots in the House of Reps these days.
Really dumb politician. If audience members had guns then there would be more innocent people killed by stray bullets and in the heat of it, the people intending to take down the criminal would probably end up shooting at each other. They wouldn't know there was only one shooter they should be targeting.
 
Not sure if it's been posted yet, but ABC with egg on their face. The shooter is a 24 year old white male while the guy that was part of the Tea Party is a 52 year old Hispanic. Good job ABC.

IMO, if I owned a news company and I had reporters make that kind of mistake that was easily verifiable, I'd immediately fire them. Horrible.

 
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) said Friday that the shootings that took place in an Aurora, Colo. movie theater hours earlier were a result of "ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs" and questioned why nobody else in the theater had a gun to take down the shooter.During a radio interview on The Heritage Foundation's "Istook Live!" show, Gohmert was asked why he believes such senseless acts of violence take place. Gohmert responded by talking about the weakening of Christian values in the country."You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless crazy act of a derelict takes place," Gohmert said.
awesome
Member of Westboro?
what.. in... the...Have politicians always been this stupid? I'm amazed at the number of flat out idiots in the House of Reps these days.
This is the guy hunting the Muslim Brotherhood with Bachmann in Congress. He also implied the uptick in military suicides was all atheists.
 
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) said Friday that the shootings that took place in an Aurora, Colo. movie theater hours earlier were a result of "ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs" and questioned why nobody else in the theater had a gun to take down the shooter.During a radio interview on The Heritage Foundation's "Istook Live!" show, Gohmert was asked why he believes such senseless acts of violence take place. Gohmert responded by talking about the weakening of Christian values in the country."You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless crazy act of a derelict takes place," Gohmert said.
awesome
Member of Westboro?
what.. in... the...Have politicians always been this stupid? I'm amazed at the number of flat out idiots in the House of Reps these days.
Really dumb politician. If audience members had guns then there would be more innocent people killed by stray bullets and in the heat of it, the people intending to take down the criminal would probably end up shooting at each other. They wouldn't know there was only one shooter they should be targeting.
Yeah Im a pro gun guy. But in a situation like that wear freaking tear gas went off, if everyone with a ccw started pulling out their gun and firing, innocents would be killed and hurt and Im sure something like "well he had a gun out, I thought he was the shooter" when you take out another guy trying to find the perp. Ugh.
 
Why is there a resistance to call this guy mentally ill? Of course he is mentally ill. Nobody shoots into a crowd of people he doesn't know without mental illness.
I think we're all probably a little mentally ill in some way, relative to perfect. I don't use it as an excuse for committing horrible acts unless it can be shown that the mental illness was directly responsible. Unless this guy didn't know that what he was doing was wrong, which I don't believe, then I won't use any level of mental illness that he might have as an excuse. This was a a preplanned massacre.
I don't think anyone here is using it as an excuse, but rather a cause.
We have no proof that it caused this. He could just be a ******* who hated life. Even if it could be called a mental illness it wouldn't rise up to the level that I would say it "caused" this. Unless he didn't know right from wrong, IMO, mental illness shouldn't be used in cases such as this. It is an attempt to minimize the responsibility of the person who committed such a heinous act.
Dude, learn to read. No one is saying mental illness excuses him from committing this act.
 
6 patients taken in to the children's hospital. 1 died. "2 or 3 will be released today in "good" condition" this according to a doctor at the children's hospital.
Heartbreaking. For all, but innocent kids tear me up.
None of these 6 were kids, all were 18 or older. They were just taken to this hospital due to the volume of injured people.
Just had a guy that came on tv here in Denver - his 7 year old daughter is dead. The police refused to let him in the hospital. His ex-wife took his daughter to movie. He was in pretty bad shape.
Damn
 
Not sure if it's been posted yet, but ABC with egg on their face. The shooter is a 24 year old white male while the guy that was part of the Tea Party is a 52 year old Hispanic. Good job ABC. IMO, if I owned a news company and I had reporters make that kind of mistake that was easily verifiable, I'd immediately fire them. Horrible.
:drive:
 
I am sure someone took video. It will be dark, blurry, and everything else but I am sure it will be uploaded. Will you watch it?

 
Well if you are going to politicize this thread, from Gawker:

Early this morning, the American Rifleman, the self-described "official journal of the National Rifle Association" sent out the following tweet:American Rifleman @NRA_Rifleman Good morning, shooters. Happy Friday! Weekend plans?20 Jul 12 Somewhere in America, a real human being rolled out of bed, and decided that today would be a good day to send out a tweet like that.
Probably a scheduled tweet and at least someone in the NRA thought it was a bad idea
 
Nice cop out. :thumbup:
There's no need for this.
Then answer the question. From what I can tell this guy hasn't been on anyone's radar re: mental issues his entire life. How would we possibly have detected this? Give me one plausible scenario. How would it work? Are we going to do mental health evaluations of EVERY person in the country? If so, how frequently? And if we even slightly suspect they might be a danger how do we approach it if they haven't done anything wrong and don't want treatment? Are you going to force it on them? I just think it's a cop out to use this tragic situation to suggest that it could have been prevented had we "done more." Because in this case I don't think there was anything that would have prevented this.
:goodposting: Even the co-worker that helped police investigate my brother felt she'd gather evidence that would clear him. She couldn't fathom that he could be violent. He was just quiet and awkward.
I'm not sure how we could detect this given the current state of affairs with our mental health system and how society treats those when they a person runs into problems- it needs a 180 degree turnaround in my opinion. We need to start better processes and protocols that start with recognition of symptoms - and that continues on into cures/mitigation - right now we seem to just do what we can and get you out of the system as soon as we can because we try to "look away" - it's seen as being a failure and when you get tagged as a failure you are starting to drown in this world we live in. We kick you out because of the cost factor and because it's hard, real hard to find a "cure". We as a society don't do the real hard things well - just look at all the hard questions asked above.But it is not a cop out to ask these questions - far, far from it - something could have helped, even here. Someone looked the other way somewhere along the way.
I don't see what we could do without becoming a fascist society. You can't simply identify people you think have problems and take them away for treatment.
 
Do you ever get angry? Does it lead to killing 12 people and wounding 38 others? Of course it doesn't. That's because you have control. If this is the result of anger then this guy has serious emotional issues which would be serious enough to qualify as a pathology. And the most evil people generally are psycho or sociopaths. Notice the path at the end? That suggests illness as it is also a pathology.
Exactly. And the notion that to invoke mental illness is to excuse or minimize the behavior is silly. Mentally ill people go to prison all the time. We as a society hold them responsible for their crimes.I think this is being confused with a particular type of mental illness: those who are so delusional, infantile or so divorced from reality that they don't realize what they're doing is wrong.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm pro-gun. I just think most gun owners overestimate their abilities to safely use their gun for protection. I think it takes a lot of training to develop and maintain those skills. Cops I know say they wouldn't feel comfortable if they didn't practice real life scenarios every couple of months.

In the military friendly fire happens. If it can happen to highly trained soldiers then I expect it to occur with people that have taken a firearm safety course and go to the range or shoot bottles in the backyard.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well if you are going to politicize this thread, from Gawker:

Early this morning, the American Rifleman, the self-described "official journal of the National Rifle Association" sent out the following tweet:American Rifleman @NRA_Rifleman Good morning, shooters. Happy Friday! Weekend plans?20 Jul 12 Somewhere in America, a real human being rolled out of bed, and decided that today would be a good day to send out a tweet like that.
Probably a scheduled tweet and at least someone in the NRA thought it was a bad idea
meh. it happens. Sometimes what seems like an innocent post is made much worse by unrelated circumstances. If someone sent it out thinking it was funny, give them hell, but this doesn't seem to be the case. They've since removed that tweet.
 
I'm pro-gun. I just think most gun owners overestimate their abilities to safely use their gun for protection. I think it takes a lot of training to develop and maintain those skills. Cops I know say they wouldn't feel comfortable if they didn't practice real life scenarios every couple of months.
In a crowded situation "friendly fire" & the cops thinking you are the bad guy could come into play.
 
I copied and pasted this from reddit. This is after the Columbine massacre and I think still holds true while people start looking for a scapegoat. Sorry if it's been posted.

Columbine: Whose Fault Is It?

by Marilyn Manson

It is sad to think that the first few people on earth needed no books, movies, games or music to inspire cold-blooded murder. The day that Cain bashed his brother Abel's brains in, the only motivation he needed was his own human disposition to violence. Whether you interpret the Bible as literature or as the final word of whatever God may be, Christianity has given us an image of death and sexuality that we have based our culture around. A half-naked dead man hangs in most homes and around our necks, and we have just taken that for granted all our lives. Is it a symbol of hope or hopelessness? The world's most famous murder-suicide was also the birth of the death icon -- the blueprint for celebrity. Unfortunately, for all of their inspiring morality, nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.

A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy. The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dip####s Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

We applaud the creation of a bomb whose sole purpose is to destroy all of mankind, and we grow up watching our president's brains splattered all over Texas. Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised. Does anyone think the Civil War was the least bit civil? If television had existed, you could be sure they would have been there to cover it, or maybe even participate in it, like their violent car chase of Princess Di. Disgusting vultures looking for corpses, exploiting, #######, filming and serving it up for our hungry appetites in a gluttonous display of endless human stupidity.

When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.

Man's greatest fear is chaos. It was unthinkable that these kids did not have a simple black-and-white reason for their actions. And so a scapegoat was needed. I remember hearing the initial reports from Littleton, that Harris and Klebold were wearing makeup and were dressed like Marilyn Manson, whom they obviously must worship, since they were dressed in black. Of course, speculation snowballed into making me the poster boy for everything that is bad in the world. These two idiots weren't wearing makeup, and they weren't dressed like me or like goths. Since Middle America has not heard of the music they did listen to (KMFDM and Rammstein, among others), the media picked something they thought was similar.

Responsible journalists have reported with less publicity that Harris and Klebold were not Marilyn Manson fans -- that they even disliked my music. Even if they were fans, that gives them no excuse, nor does it mean that music is to blame. Did we look for James Huberty's inspiration when he gunned down people at McDonald's? What did Timothy McVeigh like to watch? What about David Koresh, Jim Jones? Do you think entertainment inspired Kip Kinkel, or should we blame the fact that his father bought him the guns he used in the Springfield, Oregon, murders? What inspires Bill Clinton to blow people up in Kosovo? Was it something that Monica Lewinsky said to him? Isn't killing just killing, regardless if it's in Vietnam or Jonesboro, Arkansas? Why do we justify one, just because it seems to be for the right reasons? Should there ever be a right reason? If a kid is old enough to drive a car or buy a gun, isn't he old enough to be held personally responsible for what he does with his car or gun? Or if he's a teenager, should someone else be blamed because he isn't as enlightened as an eighteen-year-old?

America loves to find an icon to hang its guilt on. But, admittedly, I have assumed the role of Antichrist; I am the Nineties voice of individuality, and people tend to associate anyone who looks and behaves differently with illegal or immoral activity. Deep down, most adults hate people who go against the grain. It's comical that people are naive enough to have forgotten Elvis, Jim Morrison and Ozzy so quickly. All of them were subjected to the same age-old arguments, scrutiny and prejudice. I wrote a song called "Lunchbox," and some journalists have interpreted it as a song about guns. Ironically, the song is about being picked on and fighting back with my Kiss lunch box, which I used as a weapon on the playground. In 1979, metal lunch boxes were banned because they were considered dangerous weapons in the hands of delinquents. I also wrote a song called "Get Your Gunn." The title is spelled with two n's because the song was a reaction to the murder of Dr. David Gunn, who was killed in Florida by pro-life activists while I was living there. That was the ultimate hypocrisy I witnessed growing up: that these people killed someone in the name of being "pro-life."

The somewhat positive messages of these songs are usually the ones that sensationalists misinterpret as promoting the very things I am decrying. Right now, everyone is thinking of how they can prevent things like Littleton. How do you prevent AIDS, world war, depression, car crashes? We live in a free country, but with that freedom there is a burden of personal responsibility. Rather than teaching a child what is moral and immoral, right and wrong, we first and foremost can establish what the laws that govern us are. You can always escape hell by not believing in it, but you cannot escape death and you cannot escape prison.

It is no wonder that kids are growing up more cynical; they have a lot of information in front of them. They can see that they are living in a world that's made of bull####. In the past, there was always the idea that you could turn and run and start something better. But now America has become one big mall, and because of the Internet and all of the technology we have, there's nowhere to run. People are the same everywhere. Sometimes music, movies and books are the only things that let us feel like someone else feels like we do. I've always tried to let people know it's OK, or better, if you don't fit into the program. Use your imagination -- if some geek from Ohio can become something, why can't anyone else with the willpower and creativity?

I chose not to jump into the media frenzy and defend myself, though I was begged to be on every single TV show in existence. I didn't want to contribute to these fame-seeking journalists and opportunists looking to fill their churches or to get elected because of their self-righteous finger-pointing. They want to blame entertainment? Isn't religion the first real entertainment? People dress up in costumes, sing songs and dedicate themselves in eternal fandom. Everyone will agree that nothing was more entertaining than Clinton shooting off his ##### and then his bombs in true political form. And the news -- that's obvious. So is entertainment to blame? I'd like media commentators to ask themselves, because their coverage of the event was some of the most gruesome entertainment any of us have seen.

I think that the National Rifle Association is far too powerful to take on, so most people choose Doom, The Basketball Diaries or yours truly. This kind of controversy does not help me sell records or tickets, and I wouldn't want it to. I'm a controversial artist, one who dares to have an opinion and bothers to create music and videos that challenge people's ideas in a world that is watered-down and hollow. In my work I examine the America we live in, and I've always tried to show people that the devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. So don't expect the end of the world to come one day out of the blue -- it's been happening every day for a long time.

MARILYN MANSON (May 28, 1999)

 
I copied and pasted this from reddit. This is after the Columbine massacre and I think still holds true while people start looking for a scapegoat. Sorry if it's been posted.
To this day, I'm surprised the media never brought up "Basketball Diaries" which had an identical scene to the Columbine Massacre, only it was filmed 4 years earlier.
 
Public records indicate that Holmes lived with two roommates, also from California, in the Aurora building where police have found explosives, at 1690 Paris St., Apt. 10. The building is reserved for students, faculty and staff from the medical campus.

The Denver Post newspaper reported that Holmes, in an apartment rental application he last year, described himself as "quiet and easy-going." A pharmacy student who lives in the building told The Post he called 911 around 12:30 a.m. because there was a song blaring from the stereo inside apartment 10, where Holmes lived. The student, who wanted to be identified only as Ben, said he couldn't make out the song but that it seemed to be the same one playing on repeat. He also said Holmes kept to himself and wouldn't acknowledge people when they passed in the hall and said hello. "No one knew him. No one," he told The Post.
Wonder if the bolded is accurate and if they were still living there (doubtful)?http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12854157-theater-shooting-suspect-was-graduate-student-at-colorado-medical-school?lite&__utma=14933801.1780467824.1342530744.1342796058.1342805087.9&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1342805087&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342796058.8.5.utmcsr=msnbc.com|utmccn=%28referral%29|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc|cover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=111767940

 
Nice cop out. :thumbup:
There's no need for this.
Then answer the question. From what I can tell this guy hasn't been on anyone's radar re: mental issues his entire life. How would we possibly have detected this? Give me one plausible scenario. How would it work? Are we going to do mental health evaluations of EVERY person in the country? If so, how frequently? And if we even slightly suspect they might be a danger how do we approach it if they haven't done anything wrong and don't want treatment? Are you going to force it on them? I just think it's a cop out to use this tragic situation to suggest that it could have been prevented had we "done more." Because in this case I don't think there was anything that would have prevented this.
:goodposting: Even the co-worker that helped police investigate my brother felt she'd gather evidence that would clear him. She couldn't fathom that he could be violent. He was just quiet and awkward.
I'm not sure how we could detect this given the current state of affairs with our mental health system and how society treats those when they a person runs into problems- it needs a 180 degree turnaround in my opinion. We need to start better processes and protocols that start with recognition of symptoms - and that continues on into cures/mitigation - right now we seem to just do what we can and get you out of the system as soon as we can because we try to "look away" - it's seen as being a failure and when you get tagged as a failure you are starting to drown in this world we live in. We kick you out because of the cost factor and because it's hard, real hard to find a "cure". We as a society don't do the real hard things well - just look at all the hard questions asked above.But it is not a cop out to ask these questions - far, far from it - something could have helped, even here. Someone looked the other way somewhere along the way.
I don't see what we could do without becoming a fascist society. You can't simply identify people you think have problems and take them away for treatment.
I don't think you have to go that way. I'm talking about a complete change that I believe would help mitigate these types of things - and certainly have a much better effect than more gun laws or a death penalty has had up until now.At some point in time could this guy have checked out and had some of his issues looked at? It obviously took a bit of time to get to this point - where was the genesis? If at that time had our society not put a stigma on mental issues to begin with could he have asked for help? Maybe - is that maybe worth it? If we had a system that helped you as a family or friend talk someone into getting some help at an early stage - without as many barriers/cost as there are today - would it be worth it. I am not saying my solution would have stopped ALL of this- but is this type of examination into our approach to mental health and possible solutions including the cost better than some alternatives? I'm pretty sure we have tried all the laws we can - guns aren't going away - you can kill the guy in an electric chair but it doesn't stop the next guy - is there a new way to get there? Can we afford it or do we just react like we have done over and over.
 
Seems to me it took a little time for the VT shooters history to come to light. We don't really know what he has done. Absence of a criminal record doesn't mean an absence of a mental record. Those are private and protected by law. So we may want to wait before we say he did or didn't show signs. Heck it could be something organic that just came on for all we know or he could have been torturing animals since he was a kid. We just don't know. But I have no problem labeling a guy who goes into a theater and shoots dozens of strangers mentally ill.
Couldn't he have just been an angry, angry man? Bill Ayers killed people. Is he mentally ill?
That kind of anger is a mental illness. And really I don't want to start another political fight so I'll leave the Ayers thing alone.
I would post the wide eyed laughing icon but it just doesn't seem appropriate in this thread. But I've never heard of people being angry being called a mental illness.
:goodposting: The guy could just be an evil, angry SOB. It doesn't necessarily mean he has some sort of mental illness.
Do you ever get angry? Does it lead to killing 12 people and wounding 38 others? Of course it doesn't. That's because you have control. If this is the result of anger then this guy has serious emotional issues which would be serious enough to qualify as a pathology. And the most evil people generally are psycho or sociopaths. Notice the path at the end? That suggests illness as it is also a pathology.
:shrug: He seemed to have a lot of control when you consider he planned all of this (booby trapping his apartment, using the tear gas, etc.) He obviously put a lot of thought into it.Please note that I'm not saying he definitely doesn't have some sort of mental illness, but to say he definitely does already is very premature.
 
The horrific shooting at the screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado late last night bears eerie similarities to a scene in the 1986 comic Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. In the comic, a crazed, gun-toting loner walks into a movie theater and begins shooting it up, killing three in the process. The passage concludes with the media blaming Batman for inspiring the shooting, though he is not involved in the incident at all.The 1986 comic, written and drawn by Frank Miller, was a key inspiration for the Chris Nolan Batman films. It helped to reimagine the character away from his Saturday morning cartoon image and into a dark, grim avenger. The point of this particular scene in the comic was to show just how far Gotham has fallen since Batman had retired…
 
The horrific shooting at the screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado late last night bears eerie similarities to a scene in the 1986 comic Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. In the comic, a crazed, gun-toting loner walks into a movie theater and begins shooting it up, killing three in the process. The passage concludes with the media blaming Batman for inspiring the shooting, though he is not involved in the incident at all.The 1986 comic, written and drawn by Frank Miller, was a key inspiration for the Chris Nolan Batman films. It helped to reimagine the character away from his Saturday morning cartoon image and into a dark, grim avenger. The point of this particular scene in the comic was to show just how far Gotham has fallen since Batman had retired…
ooof.
 
Seems to me it took a little time for the VT shooters history to come to light. We don't really know what he has done. Absence of a criminal record doesn't mean an absence of a mental record. Those are private and protected by law. So we may want to wait before we say he did or didn't show signs. Heck it could be something organic that just came on for all we know or he could have been torturing animals since he was a kid. We just don't know. But I have no problem labeling a guy who goes into a theater and shoots dozens of strangers mentally ill.
Couldn't he have just been an angry, angry man? Bill Ayers killed people. Is he mentally ill?
That kind of anger is a mental illness. And really I don't want to start another political fight so I'll leave the Ayers thing alone.
I would post the wide eyed laughing icon but it just doesn't seem appropriate in this thread. But I've never heard of people being angry being called a mental illness.
:goodposting: The guy could just be an evil, angry SOB. It doesn't necessarily mean he has some sort of mental illness.
Do you ever get angry? Does it lead to killing 12 people and wounding 38 others? Of course it doesn't. That's because you have control. If this is the result of anger then this guy has serious emotional issues which would be serious enough to qualify as a pathology. And the most evil people generally are psycho or sociopaths. Notice the path at the end? That suggests illness as it is also a pathology.
:shrug: He seemed to have a lot of control when you consider he planned all of this (booby trapping his apartment, using the tear gas, etc.) He obviously put a lot of thought into it.Please note that I'm not saying he definitely doesn't have some sort of mental illness, but to say he definitely does already is very premature.
Serial killers are usually very controlled and meticulous. They are still bat #### crazy. I am not saying he was delusional or in the midst of a psychotic break with reality.
 
6 patients taken in to the children's hospital. 1 died. "2 or 3 will be released today in "good" condition" this according to a doctor at the children's hospital.
Heartbreaking. For all, but innocent kids tear me up.
None of these 6 were kids, all were 18 or older. They were just taken to this hospital due to the volume of injured people.
Just had a guy that came on tv here in Denver - his 7 year old daughter is dead. The police refused to let him in the hospital. His ex-wife took his daughter to movie. He was in pretty bad shape.
Damn
Here is the videohttp://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/video-police-detain-man-enraged-over-loss-of-child-in-aurora-theater-shooting/
 
He said he was the Joker, an enemy of Batman and painted his hair red

:unsure:
Source?
Daily News
The heavily armed gunman that massacred 13 people at a midnight showing of “The Dark Knight Rises” near Denver boasted to cops that he was Batman’s arch nemesis.

“He said he was the Joker, enemy of Batman,” Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said after conferring with his counterpart in Aurora.

“He had his hair painted red,” Kelly added.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dark-knight-rises-screening-shooting-leaves-20-injured-deaths-feared-reports-article-1.1118289#ixzz21BbpwZS3
 
For those earlier:

After the suspect told police there was a bomb at his apartment, officers went there and found a "very sophisticated" booby trap inside
Has been reported that the booby trap involves a series of bottles, filled with a substance, and connected with wires. Sounded similar to me, to the scene in the Dark Knight in which Two-Face is burned and Rachel is killed. No word on if that is an accurate connection to the movie, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
'ffldrew said:
'cstu said:
'ffldrew said:
'netnalp said:
'StrikeS2k said:
'pantagrapher said:
Nice cop out. :thumbup:
There's no need for this.
Then answer the question. From what I can tell this guy hasn't been on anyone's radar re: mental issues his entire life. How would we possibly have detected this? Give me one plausible scenario. How would it work? Are we going to do mental health evaluations of EVERY person in the country? If so, how frequently? And if we even slightly suspect they might be a danger how do we approach it if they haven't done anything wrong and don't want treatment? Are you going to force it on them? I just think it's a cop out to use this tragic situation to suggest that it could have been prevented had we "done more." Because in this case I don't think there was anything that would have prevented this.
:goodposting: Even the co-worker that helped police investigate my brother felt she'd gather evidence that would clear him. She couldn't fathom that he could be violent. He was just quiet and awkward.
I'm not sure how we could detect this given the current state of affairs with our mental health system and how society treats those when they a person runs into problems- it needs a 180 degree turnaround in my opinion. We need to start better processes and protocols that start with recognition of symptoms - and that continues on into cures/mitigation - right now we seem to just do what we can and get you out of the system as soon as we can because we try to "look away" - it's seen as being a failure and when you get tagged as a failure you are starting to drown in this world we live in. We kick you out because of the cost factor and because it's hard, real hard to find a "cure". We as a society don't do the real hard things well - just look at all the hard questions asked above.But it is not a cop out to ask these questions - far, far from it - something could have helped, even here. Someone looked the other way somewhere along the way.
I don't see what we could do without becoming a fascist society. You can't simply identify people you think have problems and take them away for treatment.
I don't think you have to go that way. I'm talking about a complete change that I believe would help mitigate these types of things - and certainly have a much better effect than more gun laws or a death penalty has had up until now.At some point in time could this guy have checked out and had some of his issues looked at? It obviously took a bit of time to get to this point - where was the genesis? If at that time had our society not put a stigma on mental issues to begin with could he have asked for help? Maybe - is that maybe worth it? If we had a system that helped you as a family or friend talk someone into getting some help at an early stage - without as many barriers/cost as there are today - would it be worth it. I am not saying my solution would have stopped ALL of this- but is this type of examination into our approach to mental health and possible solutions including the cost better than some alternatives? I'm pretty sure we have tried all the laws we can - guns aren't going away - you can kill the guy in an electric chair but it doesn't stop the next guy - is there a new way to get there? Can we afford it or do we just react like we have done over and over.
I don't know what kind of system that would be. Are you suggesting something like having therapy be one of the classes at schools?
 
WTF is the NYC Police Chief doing calling the Aurora Chief today? Shouldn't he recognize that the guy is a little busy with more important stuff right now? And then the NYC Police Chief goes rushing to the press to share his nugget of info.

 
Thoughts and prayers to the families of this....

News here is saying they found some explosives in his apartment

It won't be long until we start getting into the gun debate and movie violence debate - but how come no one brings up the real issue and that is the mental illness debate. There are lots of people in this country messed up - the Gabby Giffords guy, Columbine Kids - with real mental issues. And it seems as though people (family and acquaintances) recognized these issues prior to these tragedies. We should consider the value of taking care of these mental issues before hand - to be proactive. The infrastructure and affordable resources around mental illness are sorely lacking - not to mention the 'stigma" to go and ask for help. Heck I bet this guys family knew he needed help and struggled to find him the help he needed. It cost money to deal with this stuff and in today's climate I'm afraid that people really have a difficulty going into community mode to help resolve this.
Outstanding effing post, ffldrew. You couldn't be more correct.Finally, someone recognizes the real issue at hand.

 
'Eviloutsider said:
I am sure someone took video. It will be dark, blurry, and everything else but I am sure it will be uploaded. Will you watch it?
That's gonna be the worst Batman bootleg ever.
 
'OldBill said:
Bouncer from a bar Holmes frequented said that Holmes usually kept to himself, never really was with anybody. Said he was "always alone." Said he would come in 1 or 2 times a week for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. Then he wouldn't show up for a month or more at a time.
Honestly, I do that too...at a movie theater that serves beer.
 
After hearing the most recent news conference and the description of what the shooter was wearing, this whole thing reminds me of the movie "Rampage".

 
'OldBill said:
Bouncer from a bar Holmes frequented said that Holmes usually kept to himself, never really was with anybody. Said he was "always alone." Said he would come in 1 or 2 times a week for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. Then he wouldn't show up for a month or more at a time.
Honestly, I do that too...at a movie theater that serves beer.
:reported:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top