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****The 2019 Carolina Panthers Thread**** We Rhule At Losing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
Jayrok
Footballguy
I know I've been talking about wanting higher draft pick slots and looking to next year, but I love watching this team win games. When the game starts, I've never pulled for them to lose under any circumstances and I was so happy to see them play well last night and win. Defense played one of its best games of the season.
Still glad they held Luke out and still hoping they don't play him in these last two games. Cam stuck in there after taking the hit to the shoulder. Dumb rookie mistake for taking the 15 yards and out of FG range, though.
Great team effort. I hope they play to that level against the Falcons too. I'm excited for the potential of next year. Go Cats!
Still glad they held Luke out and still hoping they don't play him in these last two games. Cam stuck in there after taking the hit to the shoulder. Dumb rookie mistake for taking the 15 yards and out of FG range, though.
Great team effort. I hope they play to that level against the Falcons too. I'm excited for the potential of next year. Go Cats!
pantherclub
Footballguy
Next year may be dicey IMO. We need help at just about every line spot. Particularly LT. We have no depth as it stands now and I would imagine DG goes heavy with the linemen in the draft.
We also need a running back or two. Before the season I thought we were set for years at the wideout spot but KB is in some weird funk and Funchess just doesnt have it which is weird because all off season all I heard was how awesome he has been. Ginn is Ginn but IMO we still need some wr help.
The defense still should be good/great as long as we dont get cute with short.
but in a nutshell I cannot see us being a contender without a massive upgrade in line help. A few of us on here were critical when DG didnt really address this in the last couple of drafts. Now cam is paying the price
Jayrok
Footballguy
We've all agreed that we need offensive line help, in the worst way. Unless a pass rushing DE falls, I hope we go OL early and often if the value is there. Also would like to get a good RB in this draft class. There may be OL available in FA as well. I hope DG at least looks into that.
I like how the corners have developed. It would be nice if we could find another safety. I think T. Davis will return for one more year. Get help on the line and I think we absolutely contend in the NFC.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I like our corners as well
I think T Davis is going to play until he is 50. He appears to be still having fun
I know we need oline help but the fantasy football/madden player in me wonders what this offense would look like with Christian McAffrey
I think T Davis is going to play until he is 50. He appears to be still having fun
I know we need oline help but the fantasy football/madden player in me wonders what this offense would look like with Christian McAffrey
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Need a lot of help but not eliminated yet from the playoffs, correct?
I agree. I've been hoping for a great draft pick, but I like seeing the team play well. That shouldn't have been a close game though, too many FG attempts when we need to convert TDs.
I don't want to see Luke out there and I honestly want to make sure we are extremely careful with Newton. He already had an MRI on the shoulder, which while it look OK it is obviously bothering him. That hit he took sure wasn't something that would have hurt his shoulder if it was fine.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Technically not eliminated, but I thought I heard them say Carolina would need WAS to tie again, or something like that.
simey
Footballguy
I hope they play the Falcons and Bucs well the next two games. Give them both a little payback.
Jayrok
Footballguy
You aren't the only one, GB. I think McAffrey will be someone who lines up in the backfield and slot receiver. I think he'll do great things for some team in the right situation (like NE does/did with Edelman and Welker). He is explosive in the open field and can catch the ball. Don't think he'd be a 3 down tail back who's expected to run between the tackles. But on the edge and catching the dump off in space? Could be very good and exciting to watch.
Yeah, it is a ridiculous scenario. We need a 5 way tie with Minnesota, GB, Tampa and Washington (yes they have to tie a game and lose one. NO has to beat Tampa, but can't win both or we are done because they would beat us in a tie breaker. First, I think GB beats Minnesota at home, so that would end it all right there. Not out of the question that GB loses to Minnesota and @Detroit and not out of the question for Minnesota to win and lose to the Bears. Also, not out of the question that we win two and NO beats Tampa and loses to Atlanta. I could easily see a four way tie, again, assuming we win both of our games, which talent wise we can.
That said, having Washington have to have another tie is almost impossible considering their offense is good and defense is bad.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Gano made most of them but he's been dicey this year. Yeah, Cam needs rest and to fix whatever's going on with the shoulder. I have tendinitis or bursitis in my shoulders (course I'm 52!) and can vouch for experiencing pain with just an unexpected nudge/jolt to my arm or side (either side). I know it's not the same as he has, I know. I expect he will be fine once the season is over.
We need a new OC to really utilize McCaffery. We have the least receiving yards by RBs by a good amount.
Personally, my only worry if we end up at 8-8 is that we leave the offense and special teams the same. We should have had Byrd active instead of Bersin and had him getting his feet wet in the return game. Fozzie and Webb suck as returners, simple as that. Bersin will never be a starting WR for us, but Byrd could be a Ginn replacement.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Good point about Byrd. And yeah, Webb is too slow and indecisive to return kicks.
Speaking of Fozzie, do you see how effective he is when he catches that swing pass? That's a huge element of the offense we (well, Shula) seem to forget every Sunday. Imagine Christian McCaffrey.. or D. Cook catching that pass in space. Would take so much pressure off Cam too. Tired of all those long developing deep routes.
And as pantherclub mentioned, not sure what's going on with KB. Seems they just don't use him right. He should be getting more targets. I'd like to see KB and Funchess work on route running. Funchess has a hard time getting open sometimes. If he had Larry Fitzgerald type hands, he could get away with using his size to block out defenders. But he needs to get open more. They could be so much better if they worked on those things.
Imagine if Fozzie was catching a couple of the ones Tolbert caught. Tolbert played very well and got some extra yards, but there was one where there was space on the left from the replay that a quick RB takes it for a TD. Wheel routes have been something we have run a couple times lately, but I agree we need some new elements. I am just not sure Shula can handle that.
As to KB, he's looked terrible lately. I actually wonder if he came back too soon. I think an off season will help him, but he needs to put in some work in case he is just playing lazy. I'm hoping the former because he played amazing against Denver and SF.
Funchess I like, but he's barely gotten much time this season. He has been open a lot and ignored (seen a ton of GIFs on that) and he's had some drops. He had one he should have caught last night, but he was open. I think he's a young WR and has a lot of things to work on, but he just hasn't gotten many targets this year with KB back.
Again, I think we need new blood in the OC chair to utilize the guys we have and to take some pressure off Cam. Too often we just depend on him and our play calling is too predictable. It takes a great pass or a great run to gain yards. Stewart and Newton can do it, but I think we rely too much on their talent rather than catching the D by surprise like that wheel route.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I'm in the we expected too.much from KB this year camp. I don't think he has truly been 100% this season. I know guys are coming back quickly but that doesn't mean everyone can or even should. I think Funchess has continued to develop, I think Cam has overlooked him too much and I think you always wait for year 3 to judge a WR.
On the OC thing it does seem like we could use a new vision. Teams have largely figured us out. Either Shula has to evolve or we have to get someone else. I believe in continuity and this was an awesome offense last year and for a long time this year we were near the top. So if Shula can make some changes and we can get him some better tackles I'd be fine with him staying. But if he can't show them something completely different for next year they should start a search.
On the OC thing it does seem like we could use a new vision. Teams have largely figured us out. Either Shula has to evolve or we have to get someone else. I believe in continuity and this was an awesome offense last year and for a long time this year we were near the top. So if Shula can make some changes and we can get him some better tackles I'd be fine with him staying. But if he can't show them something completely different for next year they should start a search.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Nah the rub on him before the draft was that he was lackadaisical and lazy. He got the fire the first year and now that this season is in the tank he just doesnt care as evidenced in the past 3-4 weeks.
True, but look at some of the plays like the bombs to Kelvin and Ginn against Oakland. We have a lot of talent IMHO and sometimes Newton just makes ridiculous throws and Stewart makes a great run. We shouldn't be middle of the pack with the reigning MVP. Newton has the most 30+ yards completions but we go deep more than any other team.
I just never feel like we surprise anyone or adjust to find the opponents weakness (like NE blowing out Indy every year in the playoffs with Blount). We just run our stuff and sometimes it works and others we play NO, one of the worst Ds and have 1 first down in a quarter. Even against Washington we dominated yet we had 5 drives stall from their 6 to 24.
Watching the D really improve since the bye even with some injuries and then watching the offense sputter so much and not adjust at all to the point where announcers joke about plays not fooling anyone and knowing what we are going to run is frustrating. It's cost us a few losses. I just have no confidence that Shula can adjust.
Also, look at last year. We were the #1 scoring offense but our defense made us number 1 in takeaways to the tune of 6 more than #2 and 1 takeaway a game more than the average team. We were efficient on offense but maybe we were lucky and that made Shula look better under we hit a DC that had time to figure us out. If you dive into the offensive stats we were 11th in yards per game and 13th in yards per play. When you look at the other top offenses the past 5 years that scored around 500 point or more, they were at the top of yards per play.
It's been better, but looking deeper we didn't run well against Seattle (8th best run D), but had good yards against San Diego (9th best), Washington (22nd) and Oakland (25th).
Let's look at the one good run D, San Diego. The RBs were 27-81 (3.0 ypc) against SD. We didn't run well against them, we just got a ton of volume due to defense coming up big with 5 turnovers and 5 sacks. Oakland was solid, RBs were 21 for 110, although we had a 47 yarder, so 20-53 the rest of the time. Hate to take away the big run, but 20-53 isn't as solid. Washington was our legit ### kicking, but amazingly enough that was Cam's best game all year except for SF, whose D is terrible (one of 4 with a passer rating over 100 and 2nd worst yards per attempt). The OL has absolutely played better. Just remember, we averaged 124 yards per game in the first 7 games. We really only had a bad stretch in games 8-10. Other than that we had only 2 bad running weeks in the other 11 games.
We should have gained a lot but the SD GM told their kicker to miss. We were 11, but passed Arizona and Philly so we are 9 now and if Cincinnati wins we'd be 8.
After today, I'm not worried about winning next week. 8 gets a solid player.
Quick note. We could jump back up to 7 if we lose and SD wins at home against KC (KC could be resting players?). If we win, we could also drop all the freaking way to 14. Most of the 7-8 teams have a weaker SOS, so winning could be bad especially after blowing the chance at redemption today. 7-9 does nothing for us.
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Last note, we do have a friend in the schedule. We need Cincinnati to win tonight so that they get behind us but they play Baltimore next week. Depending on tomorrow Baltimore may still be in it.
Philly plays Dallas who could easily have the #1 seed wrapped up on Monday.
Indy plays Jax at home.
Minnesota plays Chicago at home.
Buffalo plays the Jets.
Arizona plays LA.
New Orleans has a better SOS so for the first round they don't matter. They do play Atlanta who might be going for the 2 seed so Atlanta won't be resting anyone.
If we lose, we are 8 unless KC is resting folks and SD wins and we get 7.
If we win then I think we likely only get passed by Cincinnati and maybe Philly so probably 9 or 10. We need to stay top 10. Probably 1-2 QBs, 2-3 CBs and Garrett/Allen. That would leave Adams, Barnett, Robinson and Fournette among others. 7/8 and you are talking about picking the exact guy we want or 9/10 getting one of the guys we really liked.
Philly plays Dallas who could easily have the #1 seed wrapped up on Monday.
Indy plays Jax at home.
Minnesota plays Chicago at home.
Buffalo plays the Jets.
Arizona plays LA.
New Orleans has a better SOS so for the first round they don't matter. They do play Atlanta who might be going for the 2 seed so Atlanta won't be resting anyone.
If we lose, we are 8 unless KC is resting folks and SD wins and we get 7.
If we win then I think we likely only get passed by Cincinnati and maybe Philly so probably 9 or 10. We need to stay top 10. Probably 1-2 QBs, 2-3 CBs and Garrett/Allen. That would leave Adams, Barnett, Robinson and Fournette among others. 7/8 and you are talking about picking the exact guy we want or 9/10 getting one of the guys we really liked.
NCCommish
Footballguy
The defense pretty much corralled Jones and kept Ryan under 300 yards. We had some good plays but not enough of them. Not sure so many mailed it in as much as we got beat by the better team. We just aren't that good this year.
But it should be remembered we did work back.to cut the lead to 10 points. And then injuries caught up. Bradberry trying to strip the ball and Boston's bad knee causing him to be late on the tackle broke our back on the long touchdown. Further on Benjamin he has been recovering from a knee, has had a shoulder problem and a back issue. Finally this week he got past all that and looked dominant at times. I didn't see mail it in.
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Hard to tell because the refs sure ####ed us again. Long pass to KB and no PI even though CB was holding his left arm so he couldn't catch the ball with two hands and the Brown tackle would have had the ball inside their 10. Oh and the non hold call on Funchess when he just missed staying in bounds. Those 3 plays cost us shots at 3 TDs when we converted only 1 FG. Lost a potential 10-18 more points. Refs stop holding the flags in their pockets for us and Cam plays a bit better and it's a much different game.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Cameron Robinson will fix a lot of this. Every mock i checked out this am has him lasting until 8 at least. Gotta think thats a no brainer unless fourtnet slips
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Walter Football has him at 7. Most others seem to have him in the teens. We could be in a prime drop down spot.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Maybe but i would just pick him and be done with it instead of try to get cute.
There is also an ton of great prospects for the secondary
There is also an ton of great prospects for the secondary
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Well his 78.9% on field goals was ranked 27th in the league. Three places better than Cam was ranked so he has that going for him.
NCCommish
Footballguy
With the fifth most attempts with a lot of those being long. Might want to put it in the end zone more and blame the kicker less.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
The ending seemed consistent with how the season has gone this year. Rough season all around with injuries and non-consistent play. But there were high points as well. I really liked how the young corner backs have developed and look forward to Bradberry being one of the league's top young CBs in the next few years. Love how Shaq Thompson is rising too.
On to the draft! I'd be happy with Cam Robinson but only because of need. I hope they stick with their philosophy of picking the best player available at #8. Then I guess the argument would begin on who's the best around that pick.
On to the draft! I'd be happy with Cam Robinson but only because of need. I hope they stick with their philosophy of picking the best player available at #8. Then I guess the argument would begin on who's the best around that pick.
So true. On our how to lose a game bucket list, we hadn't checked don't convert 2 point conversion off yet, so at least we've got that going for us.
That said, I don't like Cam Robinson at 8. There are guys who could be pro-bowlers and I don't think he's one of them.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I dont have a problem with the BPA strategy on the whole, however it hasnt really benefited the team in terms of oline help. This team needs a LT like nobodys business and picking anybody except Robinson (assuming he is there) would be a mortal sin and probably would set the team on an uphill struggle for some time in filling that need. LT's are not commonly found in free agency (I never thought Oher was that good) and most of the really good ones are high first round picks. Picking Robinson, even if there are 10 players on the board rated higher, is just the right thing to do this year.
He looked amazing the few times I watched him and not really sure why he isnt a sure fire top 5 pick. He is huge, mean and still young. He may be a knucklehead though so maybe that is giving teams some pause.
JFS171
Footballguy
Robinson's pass blocking (or the projection thereof) is what's keeping him from being an elite LT prospect. Everything I've seen says he's a road grader in the running game and may be a tremendous RT, but there are concerns about his pass blocking at LT. All that said, I think I agree that OL is BY FAR the biggest need.
pantherclub
Footballguy
https://www.google.com/search?q=nfl+mock+draft+2017&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
the bulk of these mock drafts have have the Panthers taking Leonard F. as their pick and a couple have Robinson. I probably would be okay (more likely deep down ecstatic) with the LF pick as he is one bad dude but holy crap if that were to happen the DG would need to pull a rabbit out of his hat and draft/sign at least 3-4 new lineman.
The fantasy football guy in me would like to draft Robinson and then figure out a way to trade up and get Christian Mc. I think he is exactly what Cam and this offense has been missing.
the bulk of these mock drafts have have the Panthers taking Leonard F. as their pick and a couple have Robinson. I probably would be okay (more likely deep down ecstatic) with the LF pick as he is one bad dude but holy crap if that were to happen the DG would need to pull a rabbit out of his hat and draft/sign at least 3-4 new lineman.
The fantasy football guy in me would like to draft Robinson and then figure out a way to trade up and get Christian Mc. I think he is exactly what Cam and this offense has been missing.
JFS171
Footballguy
I'll personally be pissed if they draft either McCaffery or Fournette.
Fournette is going to require their first rounder... and I just don't see that type of return on investment. This isn't a situation like Dallas where the OL of the ages is in place and just needs a strong RB to grind the clock and chew up opposing teams. I don't even think Fournette is the best RB in this draft class (he could be third on pure talent), and I definitely don't think Carolina needs a 1st round RB.
As for McCaffery, I honestly think he's going to have to be used in a hybrid role to get the most out of him, much like Danny Woodhead. Throw him passes out of the backfield, line him up in the slot, etc. Would he be better than what they're getting from Fozzy right now? Sure. Would you spend a first round pick on Danny Woodhead? No. I don't think McCaffery becomes the type that takes the ball 20 times a game between the tackles.
GMan has been kind of a rogue GM these last few years, but he's generally had productive draft classes. Butler was hurt a good chunk of this year, so we haven't seen the full impact, but Bradberry and Worley came on down the stretch. Both look like future starters. Thompson has played very well. Benjamin, when healthy (and motivated?) has played pretty well. Funchess has flashed. Ealy has flashed. KK and Star have been excellent.
I hope GMan sticks with his big-man philosophy and drafts the trenches, OR takes an impact safety. There will be some OTs in FA that could get them by if they wanted to go that route. I want a franchise LT as much as anyone, but it just may not exist in this draft class... or maybe Cam Robinson just needs some coaching. Maybe it's Ramzyck or McGlinchy.
The needs are clear -- OL, pass rush, secondary, RB... GMan has to know this. What he does in FA will likely let us know a bit more about the plan for the draft.
For now, I have to think that 8th pick is looking at a group of Robinson, Ramzyck, McGlinchy, Barnett, Timm Williams, Malik Hooker, Adams, and a couple corners.
ETA -- the depth of this RB class is going to push some values down the board. I could easily see 4 or 5 guys with Day 1 draft grades, but I'll be floored if that many RBs go in the first round. I think it'll be Fournette and Cook in the first, but behind them guys like Mixon (who will probably be off Carolina's board), Foreman, Perine, etc... the list of quality backs is really 8-10 deep.
Fournette is going to require their first rounder... and I just don't see that type of return on investment. This isn't a situation like Dallas where the OL of the ages is in place and just needs a strong RB to grind the clock and chew up opposing teams. I don't even think Fournette is the best RB in this draft class (he could be third on pure talent), and I definitely don't think Carolina needs a 1st round RB.
As for McCaffery, I honestly think he's going to have to be used in a hybrid role to get the most out of him, much like Danny Woodhead. Throw him passes out of the backfield, line him up in the slot, etc. Would he be better than what they're getting from Fozzy right now? Sure. Would you spend a first round pick on Danny Woodhead? No. I don't think McCaffery becomes the type that takes the ball 20 times a game between the tackles.
GMan has been kind of a rogue GM these last few years, but he's generally had productive draft classes. Butler was hurt a good chunk of this year, so we haven't seen the full impact, but Bradberry and Worley came on down the stretch. Both look like future starters. Thompson has played very well. Benjamin, when healthy (and motivated?) has played pretty well. Funchess has flashed. Ealy has flashed. KK and Star have been excellent.
I hope GMan sticks with his big-man philosophy and drafts the trenches, OR takes an impact safety. There will be some OTs in FA that could get them by if they wanted to go that route. I want a franchise LT as much as anyone, but it just may not exist in this draft class... or maybe Cam Robinson just needs some coaching. Maybe it's Ramzyck or McGlinchy.
The needs are clear -- OL, pass rush, secondary, RB... GMan has to know this. What he does in FA will likely let us know a bit more about the plan for the draft.
For now, I have to think that 8th pick is looking at a group of Robinson, Ramzyck, McGlinchy, Barnett, Timm Williams, Malik Hooker, Adams, and a couple corners.
ETA -- the depth of this RB class is going to push some values down the board. I could easily see 4 or 5 guys with Day 1 draft grades, but I'll be floored if that many RBs go in the first round. I think it'll be Fournette and Cook in the first, but behind them guys like Mixon (who will probably be off Carolina's board), Foreman, Perine, etc... the list of quality backs is really 8-10 deep.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
I am not sure McCffery will go in the first.
LF is a special talent but yeah we need Tackles badly especially since Oher probably isnt coming back.
I wouldnt be pissed if they got LF (I would be however if they drafted Cook over robinson) but I would expect DG to spend some money in free agency on line help if that pick was made.
I honestly dont know what linemen are free agents this year
LF is a special talent but yeah we need Tackles badly especially since Oher probably isnt coming back.
I wouldnt be pissed if they got LF (I would be however if they drafted Cook over robinson) but I would expect DG to spend some money in free agency on line help if that pick was made.
I honestly dont know what linemen are free agents this year
