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The Americans (1 Viewer)

phandango said:
She's an awful person. So is Philip. Just because they happen to be the protagonists in the story doesn't make them good. Just this season she killed that guy in the hotel room just because he said his girlfriend worked in the company's security department. She killed the hockey player and his wife with their kid in the next room. Over past seasons, Elizabeth befriended that Korean woman and then pretended that she had an affair with the husband so she could break up their marriage, and she and Philip killed that old lady in the repair place when they went to bug the FBI mail robot that was in the shop. There's Martha and a whole slew of people whose lives they ruined. The fact that we, as viewers, "root" for them is attributable to how good the writing is, but come on, whatever epiphany Elizabeth had in the past episode (and Philip before her) doesn't excuse just how horrid a person she is (and him, too). She may have had respect for Erica, but she was a Soviet agent posing as a hospice nurse to spy on Erica's husband. Wouldn't Erica have been better served by having, say, an actual hospice nurse? Yes, her realization at being used and manipulated by the Center all these years is harsh, but it's nothing in comparison to the things Elizabeth has done to others. She and Philip deserve whatever they get. 
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She's serving her country, the same way military members do in times of war. And wars always kill non-combatants, especially modern warfare.

 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
She's serving her country, the same way military members do in times of war. And wars always kill non-combatants, especially modern warfare.

 
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Yes, but soldiers are typically identifiable, or if the combat takes place in areas of conflict, then it's expected that non-combatants will be killed. A woman disguised as a security consultant kills a guy in a hotel room because she's afraid her cover might be endangered after he casually mentions his girlfriend works in security. That's not "collateral damage." That's just murder.

You may be Good Posting Judge, but are you Good Person Judge? I submit that the evidence shows you are not. Good day to you, sir!

 
phandango said:
Yes, but soldiers are typically identifiable, or if the combat takes place in areas of conflict, then it's expected that non-combatants will be killed. A woman disguised as a security consultant kills a guy in a hotel room because she's afraid her cover might be endangered after he casually mentions his girlfriend works in security. That's not "collateral damage." That's just murder.

You may be Good Posting Judge, but are you Good Person Judge? I submit that the evidence shows you are not. Good day to you, sir!
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There have been plenty of people throughout history who have just been going about their business and have been killed by a war they didn't have anything to do with, particularly in WW2 when everything was a combat zone. A soldier isn't "identifiable" if he's in a plane 4 miles above you dropping bombs on you, or piloting a drone that blows up your village.

Of course it's all pretty awful, but the term "Cold War" is pretty accurate. People died on both sides, but it was done so quietly and at the hands of people like the protagonists in The Americans.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
There have been plenty of people throughout history who have just been going about their business and have been killed by a war they didn't have anything to do with, particularly in WW2 when everything was a combat zone. A soldier isn't "identifiable" if he's in a plane 4 miles above you dropping bombs on you, or piloting a drone that blows up your village.

Of course it's all pretty awful, but the term "Cold War" is pretty accurate. People died on both sides, but it was done so quietly and at the hands of people like the protagonists in The Americans.
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In her mind, what she's doing is in the name of a righteous cause (protecting Russia), and thus, to her, it's justifiable. I'm not arguing that. Plenty of people think what they're doing is morally right despite popular opinion supporting the opposite. If caught alive, would she be treated as a prisoner of war? No, she'd be tried, likely found guilty (because she is) and then executed. She's not a war criminal. She's a criminal.

Elizabeth's sudden epiphany is a tacit admission that even she knows that killing Jackson or the Russian guy on tape would be wrong, even though doing so would be entirely consistent with the murders she already committed this season and before. For the sake of the story, I like that her perspective has changed. But it doesn't redeem her. She's still a murderer. 

 
phandango said:
I think Stan will find that connection, as well as with the Orthodox priest, and Stan will take that (along with the info he got from the Roy Rogers guy -- I had completely forgotten about that whole plot line from years ago) and go to Aderholt (who was shown earlier this season dining with Philip and Elizabeth, so even though it's not as bad as being neighbors to Russian spies, he still won't look good at the end of this, either). 
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fine line.

 
phandango said:
I still can't figure out the angle with Stan's wife. I really, really don't want her to be all, "SUH-PRISE, BETCHES!" in the finale, but I don't see why else they would cast a recognizable actress in the role and then keep going with, now, the letter for the job interview at the FBI (not to mention that scene where Stan is scoping out the Jennings house and the wife asks what he's doing -- why include that?). I guess, maybe, she's an insurance policy for the Center. Didn't she arrive at about the time Philip was wavering? Maybe she was supposed to keep tabs on Stan to protect Elizabeth and eliminate Philip if he looked like he was going to turn, but, instead, she will be charged with taking both Philip and Elizabeth out now that they've sided with Gorbachev. 
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She works for the Centre.  Stan continues to get closer and closer.  She's ordered to take him out.  Elizabeth finds out about the order.  She informs Philip.  Philip and Elisabeth save his life in a way that reveals their true selves.  Stan lets them go.  They disappear and open a cigarette lighter repair shop in Montana.

 
The economy was pretty much booming in the 80's. How does Philip not have a thriving travel business in the DC area? I think he needs to look inward.

 
Grahamburn said:
She works for the Centre.  Stan continues to get closer and closer.  She's ordered to take him out.  Elizabeth finds out about the order.  She informs Philip.  Philip and Elisabeth save his life in a way that reveals their true selves.  Stan lets them go.  They disappear and open a cigarette lighter repair shop in Montana become lumberjacks in Oregon.
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Or maybe manage a Cinnabon in Omaha.

 
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Good Posting Judge said:
She's serving her country, the same way military members do in times of war. And wars always kill non-combatants, especially modern warfare.

 
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There is always the black Ops folks, who are the 'by ANY means necessary' soldiers and agents that do the worst of the worst, when that's needed. Almost a known forsaking of o e's soul to so the awful stuff that has no defense... except it serges the long term security needs of your country.

But, Phillip nailed it - in the end, the choice to actually carry out every order has been their own.As such, they too, are responsible.

 
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lardonastick said:
Great episode last night. Nice to see Philip show off his world class speed.
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He wasn't even breathing hard in the taxi. I got winded just sitting on my couch watching him run.

I liked that they tied off the Pastor Tim story. I thought maybe for a second that Tim would try to talk in code. ("Paige was part of the 'church' but Philip and Elizabeth were not 'legal members.' Some might go so far as to call them 'foreign' to the church.") But I guess it was godlier for Tim to choose his own well-being over the interests of his home country. Traitor!

 
simey said:
Now that things are topsy turvy at the office, who will die? Philip, Elizabeth, both, or neither?
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Before this episode, I'd been thinking one (& maybe two) of Elizabeth/Philip/Paige, plus Oleg.

But Oleg may have dodged a bullet by getting busted.

I honestly don't know with E/P/P now.

In meta terms, if last night was the last we see of Paige it would be fitting (same with Claudia). 

I'm guessing, if one of them has to die, it'll be Philip.

I don't expect a neat bow tying everything up. I think that's going to piss some viewers off, but that's kind of how real life goes.

 
that was pretty awesome.  can't we have like three more episodes at least? Bummed there is only one more.

 
I like how Aderholt dismissed Stan's thoughts about Philip/Elizabeth as well.  It made is less likely that Stan will "look bad" once the truth is out there.  

I agree that this is probably the last we've seen of Claudia and Oleg.  I can see how Paige could be done, but I'd really like her to have an impact in the finale.

 
I didn't catch this as I was watching :doh:

(*) I particularly love the little head shake he gives Stan when Stan shows him a Jennings family photo in the hopes he’ll identify them as the illegals, and the way Ronin’s expression makes it not so much Oleg saying, “No, that’s not them” as, “No, I will not tell you, Stan, no matter how many times and ways you ask.”

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Did anyone else think for a split second that the blonde assassin was Renee?
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No, but I thought maybe she was the lady doing the chemical things that Oleg messed up (and that they showed in the "previously on" clips), but my wife says I'm wrong.  

 
The Noid said:
No, but I thought maybe she was the lady doing the chemical things that Oleg messed up (and that they showed in the "previously on" clips), but my wife says I'm wrong.  
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Don't want to spoil it for anyone but look more closely at the screen when she is laying on the steps and you will recognize who it was if you already did not. 

 
walnutz said:
3 minutes ago, The Noid said:
No, but I thought maybe she was the lady doing the chemical things that Oleg messed up (and that they showed in the "previously on" clips), but my wife says I'm wrong.  
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walnutz said:
Don't want to spoil it for anyone but look more closely at the screen when she is laying on the steps and you will recognize who it was if you already did not. 
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Just read Sepinwall's review and I was right, it was her (Tatiana.) 

 
walnutz said:
Don't want to spoil it for anyone but look more closely at the screen when she is laying on the steps and you will recognize who it was if you already did not. 
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Oh, I knew who it was after she was shot. I was talking about when Elizabeth first saw her and all you could see was blond hair. 

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Oh, I knew who it was after she was shot. I was talking about when Elizabeth first saw her and all you could see was blond hair. 
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Oh yeah Uruk - i was thinking the same thing. When the wig came off i should nor have been surprised at who it was but i kind of was. 

 
I think it ends like this:

Paige, Henry and Phillip get away to Canada

Elizabeth sacrifices herself to help them get away

Stan repeats the cycle of not knowing what was under his nose the whole time when it's revealed (to the audience) his girlfriend is an illegal or some other plant 

 
Uruk-Hai said:
In meta terms, if last night was the last we see of Paige it would be fitting (same with Claudia). 
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Paige is in the trailer for the season finale. I saw an interview with her, and she said the last scene they shot was in Staten Island at 4:30 am, and it was freezing outside. She said an unexpected blizzard started during their shooting, and they had to set up tents to make it look like it wasn't snowing, because they had already filmed half the scenes when there was no snow. She said they had to put their hand warmers up to their mouths so they could keep their lips warm so they could speak. 

She is a sophomore in college studying graphic design. She said her mom was born and raised in Ireland, her dad was born and raised in Scotland, they married and moved to England, his job took him to Canada where she was born, and then his job took him to NJ where she grew up. She said she has four passports, and that her real parents could be spies.

 
simey said:
Paige is in the trailer for the season finale. I saw an interview with her, and she said the last scene they shot was in Staten Island at 4:30 am, and it was freezing outside. She said an unexpected blizzard started during their shooting, and they had to set up tents to make it look like it wasn't snowing, because they had already filmed half the scenes when there was no snow. She said they had to put their hand warmers up to their mouths so they could keep their lips warm so they could speak. 

She is a sophomore in college studying graphic design. She said her mom was born and raised in Ireland, her dad was born and raised in Scotland, they married and moved to England, his job took him to Canada where she was born, and then his job took him to NJ where she grew up. She said she has four passports, and that her real parents could be spies.
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spoilierish....

 
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