ericttspikes
Footballguy
Just a normal American dude recruited by a Russian spy in 2013. So why was he a "volunteer" advisor on Team Trump?
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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
Bozeman Bruiser
Footballguy
Lol at all the "letdown" and "nothing burger" comments.
There has to be at least a few fbg scratching their heads about why the media, Schiff, holder, and others have been trying so hard to prevent the release of the memo.
"Threat to national security"
If the content of these 4 pages was nothing then why the effort to squash it?
There has to be at least a few fbg scratching their heads about why the media, Schiff, holder, and others have been trying so hard to prevent the release of the memo.
"Threat to national security"
If the content of these 4 pages was nothing then why the effort to squash it?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
No one ever went broke underestimating 37% of the American public.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
It's only four pages long.I like how everyone has already read and interpreted the entire memo already.
The General
Footballguy
McJose
Footballguy
eurotrashman
Footballguy
jomar
Footballguy
why would a former British spy care that a wildly unpopular Republican candidate could be elected POTUS? cared so much that he made up a bunch of lies against him. doesn't it make more sense that the things he found on Trump were the cause of his angst at Trump possibly being POTUS? in other words, he didn't hate Trump so much that he fabricated the dossier. instead it was the information he found and put in the dossier that led to his distaste for Trump. think critically here, which one is far more plausible?
eurotrashman
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
The Indestructible
Footballguy
John DickersonVerified account @jdickerson
So if the memo confirms that and the FBI “deep state” knew about Papadopoulos for so long why, if the “deep state” was hell bent on keeping Donald Trump out of office, did the Papadopoulos News never get leaked? Didn’t FBI have Papadopoulos news for months before election?
So if the memo confirms that and the FBI “deep state” knew about Papadopoulos for so long why, if the “deep state” was hell bent on keeping Donald Trump out of office, did the Papadopoulos News never get leaked? Didn’t FBI have Papadopoulos news for months before election?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's a radical move as a matter of principle. There's a reason these courts and the inner workings of the Select Committees are secret. I assume his concern was more about that, and about setting a precedent for selling that out for cheap partisanship, than about any damage it would do to Mueller or the FBI or any Dems.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
When you've lost shader, you've lost the country.
Dedfin
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That was one of my favorite parts, and one of the things that made it so obvious that the White House helped write this. There's no reason to try to distance Page from Trump in the context of this memo, but someone clearly insisted that they add that irrelevant detail.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I want to know what was changed after committee approval. And was anything redacted?
shader
Footballguy
I don't know which one is far more plausible. No reason for me to think critically. I don't have to make a decision, nor am I nearly informed enough to make one. I'd assume that the special counsel Mueller is the one whose opinion will ultimately matter, as he's the one with the facts, not me.
timschochet
Footballguy
Regarding Steele, is there any part of his dossier which has been proven untrue so far?
The Indestructible
Footballguy
Reminds me of the Stormy Daniels' letter that denies an alleged affair "many, many, many years ago."
guncrib
Footballguy
the memo means that they got a warrant to spy domestically on an American based on a false dossier, corroborated by a media that reported on it after being briefed on it by the author. Trump guilty or not, this should disturb everyone. Many of you blame all police for the actions of a few but cant differentiate between the FBI and a few bad apples in it? It's that impossible?
squistion
Footballguy
Rachel Maddow @maddow 5m5 minutes ago
LOL
A year attacking the Steele dossier.
A month hyping that the dossier started the whole FBI investigation.
Weeks hyping that they have a memo (a memo!) that will finally prove it!
So... is there some other memo?
Because this one says it was Papadopoulos, not the dossier.
LOL
A year attacking the Steele dossier.
A month hyping that the dossier started the whole FBI investigation.
Weeks hyping that they have a memo (a memo!) that will finally prove it!
So... is there some other memo?
Because this one says it was Papadopoulos, not the dossier.
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The Indestructible
Footballguy
Brad HeathVerified account @bradheath
The curious thing about the Nunes memo is that it doesn't actually accuse the FBI or DOJ of violating any particular law. There are legal standards for warrant applications, material omissions, etc., but it doesn't reference them.
The curious thing about the Nunes memo is that it doesn't actually accuse the FBI or DOJ of violating any particular law. There are legal standards for warrant applications, material omissions, etc., but it doesn't reference them.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
In my continuing effort to document this entire affair with Simpsons references:
Expectations vs reality
Expectations vs reality
guncrib
Footballguy
well Tim. last I heard you have to PROVE an allegation not DISPROVE a lie in this country. No part of it has been proven, as per Comy
whoknew
Footballguy
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Rirruto
Footballguy
It depends on what it is. If it's our source who has proven credible in x, y, z way works for a guy who works for a guy who is paid by someone who would benefit from something bad happening to the suspect, I can't imagine I'd put that in.
guncrib
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Hey here's a guy that might actually know something"
https://twitter.com/GarrettHaake/status/959486766003744769
whoknew
Footballguy
Are you trying to confuse me?
The memo doesn't say anything about the veracity of the Steele dossier as far as I can tell. Which means your statement that "the memo means that they got a warrant to spy domestically on an American based on a false dossier" is itself false.
So I'm trying to figure out why you wrote that. Or if I am missing something.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
John Kelly wasn't kidding when he said his lawyers were "slicing and dicing" it yesterday.
slicing and dicing it
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The main takeaway here is that the pee tape is real.
guncrib
Footballguy
no. you didnt ask me how I know its false. You asserted that it has to proven false. But I'll take Comy's word for it
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Not in the context of an application for a warrant. You have to show probable cause, which is not a particularly demanding standard.
In this context, it was an application to extend existing surveillance of a target who had been under investigation since 2013, backed by statements picked up from Russian intelligence operatives that he had been contacted, and buttressed by information that they knew about how Papadapolous had been contacted. And that's just the stuff we know without seeing the FISA application and the intelligence underlying it. But it would seem to be plenty. Particularly considering that the author of the dossier had proven a credible source about Russia's role in the FIFA World Cup bribery scandal.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
This is the key. It's nonsensical to look at the memo through the lens of non-partisan logic. There's just enough meat in this thing for Trump, the Republican party, and Fox News to keep the base focused like a cat follows a laser pointer. They just need to keep pounding the "this investigation is illegitimate" drum over and over until anything Mueller finds is discredited. Heck, given the intellectual dishonesty of the 'base' nowadays, the memo could have said, "Rosenstein didn't wash his hands after going # 2" and it would still serve its intended purpose: To discredit the Mueller investigation.
GoBirds
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
The @RepAdamSchiff statement on the memo is crushing, even as Republicans continue to block the full minority memo. Read it:
https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=350
Washington, DC – Today, the Minority of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence responded to the release of HPSCI Chairman Nunes’ memo:
“Chairman Nunes’ decision, supported by House Speaker Ryan and Republican Members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to publicly release misleading allegations against the Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation is a shameful effort to discredit these institutions, undermine the Special Counsel’s ongoing investigation, and undercut congressional probes. Furthermore, their refusal to allow release of a comprehensive response memorandum prepared by Committee Democrats is a transparent effort to suppress the full truth.
“As the DOJ emphasized to Chairman Nunes, the decision to employ an obscure and never before used House rule to release classified information without DOJ and FBI vetting was ‘extraordinarily reckless.’ The selective release and politicization of classified information sets a terrible precedent and will do long-term damage to the Intelligence Community and our law enforcement agencies. If potential intelligence sources know that their identities might be compromised when political winds arise, those sources of vital information will simply dry up, at great cost to our national security.
“The Republican document mischaracterizes highly sensitive classified information that few Members of Congress have seen, and which Chairman Nunes himself chose not to review. It fails to provide vital context and information contained in DOJ’s FISA application and renewals, and ignores why and how the FBI initiated, and the Special Counsel has continued, its counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s election interference and links to the Trump campaign. The sole purpose of the Republican document is to circle the wagons around the White House and insulate the President. Tellingly, when asked whether the Republican staff who wrote the memo had coordinated its drafting with the White House, the Chairman refused to answer.
“The premise of the Nunes memo is that the FBI and DOJ corruptly sought a FISA warrant on a former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, Carter Page, and deliberately misled the court as part of a systematic abuse of the FISA process. As the Minority memo makes clear, none of this is true. The FBI had good reason to be concerned about Carter Page and would have been derelict in its responsibility to protect the country had it not sought a FISA warrant.
“In order to understand the context in which the FBI sought a FISA warrant for Carter Page, it is necessary to understand how the investigation began, what other information the FBI had about Russia’s efforts to interfere with our election, and what the FBI knew about Carter Page prior to making application to the court – including Carter Page’s previous interactions with Russian intelligence operatives. This is set out in the Democratic response which the GOP so far refuses to make public.
“The authors of the GOP memo would like the country to believe that the investigation began with Christopher Steele and the dossier, and if they can just discredit Mr. Steele, they can make the whole investigation go away regardless of the Russians’ interference in our election or the role of the Trump campaign in that interference. This ignores the inconvenient fact that the investigation did not begin with, or arise from Christopher Steele or the dossier, and that the investigation would persist on the basis of wholly independent evidence had Christopher Steele never entered the picture.
“The DOJ appropriately provided the court with a comprehensive explanation of Russia’s election interference, including evidence that Russian agents courted another Trump campaign foreign adviser, George Papadopoulos. As we know from Papadopoulos’ guilty plea, Russian agents disclosed to Papadopoulos their possession of stolen Clinton emails and interest in a relationship with the campaign. In claiming that there is ‘no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,’ the Majority deliberately misstates the reason why DOJ specifically explained Russia’s role in courting Papadopoulos and the context in which to evaluate Russian approaches to Page.
“The Majority suggests that the FBI failed to alert the court as to Mr. Steele’s potential political motivations or the political motivations of those who hired him, but this is not accurate. The GOP memo also claims that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate Steele, but this is not at all why the article was referenced. These are but a few of the serious mischaracterizations of the FISA application. There are many more set out in the Democratic response, which we will again be seeking a vote to release publicly on Monday, February 5th. Unlike Committee Republicans, however, we will ask the relevant agencies to propose any necessary redactions to protect any sources and methods not already disclosed by Chairman Nunes’ document.
“It is telling that Chairman Nunes put out this memo without bothering to read the underlying materials, and that he ordered changes to the document without informing his own committee members. It is a terrible lapse in leadership that Speaker Ryan failed to intervene and prevent the abuse of classified materials in this way. It is tragic, if all too predictable, that this President would allow the release of the memo despite FBI and DOJ’s expressions of ‘grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the [Republicans’] memo’s accuracy’. But most destructive of all may be the announcement by Chairman Nunes that he has placed the FBI and DOJ under investigation, impugning and impairing the work of the dedicated professionals trying to keep our country safe.”
The memo and letter from the White House can be found here.
https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=350
Washington, DC – Today, the Minority of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence responded to the release of HPSCI Chairman Nunes’ memo:
“Chairman Nunes’ decision, supported by House Speaker Ryan and Republican Members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to publicly release misleading allegations against the Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation is a shameful effort to discredit these institutions, undermine the Special Counsel’s ongoing investigation, and undercut congressional probes. Furthermore, their refusal to allow release of a comprehensive response memorandum prepared by Committee Democrats is a transparent effort to suppress the full truth.
“As the DOJ emphasized to Chairman Nunes, the decision to employ an obscure and never before used House rule to release classified information without DOJ and FBI vetting was ‘extraordinarily reckless.’ The selective release and politicization of classified information sets a terrible precedent and will do long-term damage to the Intelligence Community and our law enforcement agencies. If potential intelligence sources know that their identities might be compromised when political winds arise, those sources of vital information will simply dry up, at great cost to our national security.
“The Republican document mischaracterizes highly sensitive classified information that few Members of Congress have seen, and which Chairman Nunes himself chose not to review. It fails to provide vital context and information contained in DOJ’s FISA application and renewals, and ignores why and how the FBI initiated, and the Special Counsel has continued, its counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s election interference and links to the Trump campaign. The sole purpose of the Republican document is to circle the wagons around the White House and insulate the President. Tellingly, when asked whether the Republican staff who wrote the memo had coordinated its drafting with the White House, the Chairman refused to answer.
“The premise of the Nunes memo is that the FBI and DOJ corruptly sought a FISA warrant on a former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, Carter Page, and deliberately misled the court as part of a systematic abuse of the FISA process. As the Minority memo makes clear, none of this is true. The FBI had good reason to be concerned about Carter Page and would have been derelict in its responsibility to protect the country had it not sought a FISA warrant.
“In order to understand the context in which the FBI sought a FISA warrant for Carter Page, it is necessary to understand how the investigation began, what other information the FBI had about Russia’s efforts to interfere with our election, and what the FBI knew about Carter Page prior to making application to the court – including Carter Page’s previous interactions with Russian intelligence operatives. This is set out in the Democratic response which the GOP so far refuses to make public.
“The authors of the GOP memo would like the country to believe that the investigation began with Christopher Steele and the dossier, and if they can just discredit Mr. Steele, they can make the whole investigation go away regardless of the Russians’ interference in our election or the role of the Trump campaign in that interference. This ignores the inconvenient fact that the investigation did not begin with, or arise from Christopher Steele or the dossier, and that the investigation would persist on the basis of wholly independent evidence had Christopher Steele never entered the picture.
“The DOJ appropriately provided the court with a comprehensive explanation of Russia’s election interference, including evidence that Russian agents courted another Trump campaign foreign adviser, George Papadopoulos. As we know from Papadopoulos’ guilty plea, Russian agents disclosed to Papadopoulos their possession of stolen Clinton emails and interest in a relationship with the campaign. In claiming that there is ‘no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,’ the Majority deliberately misstates the reason why DOJ specifically explained Russia’s role in courting Papadopoulos and the context in which to evaluate Russian approaches to Page.
“The Majority suggests that the FBI failed to alert the court as to Mr. Steele’s potential political motivations or the political motivations of those who hired him, but this is not accurate. The GOP memo also claims that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate Steele, but this is not at all why the article was referenced. These are but a few of the serious mischaracterizations of the FISA application. There are many more set out in the Democratic response, which we will again be seeking a vote to release publicly on Monday, February 5th. Unlike Committee Republicans, however, we will ask the relevant agencies to propose any necessary redactions to protect any sources and methods not already disclosed by Chairman Nunes’ document.
“It is telling that Chairman Nunes put out this memo without bothering to read the underlying materials, and that he ordered changes to the document without informing his own committee members. It is a terrible lapse in leadership that Speaker Ryan failed to intervene and prevent the abuse of classified materials in this way. It is tragic, if all too predictable, that this President would allow the release of the memo despite FBI and DOJ’s expressions of ‘grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the [Republicans’] memo’s accuracy’. But most destructive of all may be the announcement by Chairman Nunes that he has placed the FBI and DOJ under investigation, impugning and impairing the work of the dedicated professionals trying to keep our country safe.”
The memo and letter from the White House can be found here.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
There's very little that the Banana Republicans can do to surprise me at this point. But undermining one of their own talking points, in their own "bombshell" memo, for reasons that seem entirely unrelated to the claimed purpose of the memo? Impressive.
guncrib
Footballguy
and besides I should of known that this board would take the CNN line on one side and FOX on the other. If any accusation in this memo is true then I have serious concerns about the politicization of the FBI and the DOJ. The Trump haters insist on knowing the truth about Russia. Why do you not ask for the same transparency about the Nunes memo, written by the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and voted on by that same committee for release.
And Trumpers. Why dont you wait for the Russia investigation to end before claiming its a witch hunt?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Page and trying to discredit Steele.
There is literally nothing in this that affects Mueller.
