What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Trouble getting pregnant? (1 Viewer)

I agree on the convenience thing. For us, the most important thing was being comfortable with our doctor. Ours was fantastic.

I also agree on the success rate stats. One thing we liked about our clinic is that they were very honest with everyone about the success rates and have the stats by age and complication posted on their website.

As far as the "educational" material goes, I believe that the age of the portable video media player has rendered the doctors' selection obsolete.

Luckily for us, after one IVF cycle, we have a bouncing baby boy and a second frozen embryo that we're going to have inserted this fall. Best of luck! Feel free to PM me any time if you have questions during the process.
Didn't realize this was a possibility. How much was this extra cost? Yeah, we're lucky enough that it's only about 10 minutes away, so not a problem at all on convenience.

Thanks for the heads up (fatguytoo)
I was looking at these numbers last week, and I think it's going to cost about 15% of what the original procedure cost. The hard (and expensive) part is growing high quality embryos in the first place. Just like with everything else, there's no guarantee that you'll have extra viable embryos after the original procedure. For the second round, it's just a thawing, implantation, and the follow-up drugs. If this works, our boy will have a sibling that's a fraternal twin but two years younger than him. I'm pretty sure that we'll spare the kids that discussion.

 
"Five years? What else you got? He said they got two Ko-reans and a negro born with his heart on the outside."
:lol: :lmao: :lmao: gb this movieand gllllllllllllllllll to everyone. my brother and sister in-law went through this for almost 10 years before success in October of 2009 at age 40.
 
Just read through this whole thread -- inspiring that people going through what we are going through came out successful on the other side. My guys are fine, wife's tests have all come back great. We're now 14 months in, after one cycle of IUI, and we have no idea why it just won't work. "Unexplained infertility" is the worst -- the wife needs all my emotional support once a month, and it seems like it is raining babies with our friends and family. Never really noticed how many pregnant ladies are walking around on the street.

 
1) The porn thing was just a joke, but you guys blew my mind with the "BYOP" idea. That seems so ridiculously pervy I'm not sure I could keep a straight face. "Umm, yes, I know that you have a selection of magazines and videos in there, but I had to bring my own selection just in case you don't have anything with midget trannies peeing on each other."

2) Freezing extra embryos is standard operating procedure everywhere. The part of the procedure that is most expensive and most hazardous to a woman's health is the part where you inject her with a bunch of drugs to make a lot of eggs to be harvested. If you have some embryos on ice, you can avoid that whole part. My first kid was once a frozen embryo.

3) I think most people consider adoption at some point. After we had IVF fail a few times, we met with an adoption agency worker for an initial consult. I'm sure if we had ended up adopting we would have loved the kid just as much as we love our kids now, but it's hard to make that choice. And the whole process of adoption freaked us out a little bit.

 
1) The porn thing was just a joke, but you guys blew my mind with the "BYOP" idea. That seems so ridiculously pervy I'm not sure I could keep a straight face. "Umm, yes, I know that you have a selection of magazines and videos in there, but I had to bring my own selection just in case you don't have anything with midget trannies peeing on each other."2) Freezing extra embryos is standard operating procedure everywhere. The part of the procedure that is most expensive and most hazardous to a woman's health is the part where you inject her with a bunch of drugs to make a lot of eggs to be harvested. If you have some embryos on ice, you can avoid that whole part. My first kid was once a frozen embryo. 3) I think most people consider adoption at some point. After we had IVF fail a few times, we met with an adoption agency worker for an initial consult. I'm sure if we had ended up adopting we would have loved the kid just as much as we love our kids now, but it's hard to make that choice. And the whole process of adoption freaked us out a little bit.
BYOP is my SOP. The first time I went they handed me a 1996 PH. It didn't move.
 
1) The porn thing was just a joke, but you guys blew my mind with the "BYOP" idea. That seems so ridiculously pervy I'm not sure I could keep a straight face. "Umm, yes, I know that you have a selection of magazines and videos in there, but I had to bring my own selection just in case you don't have anything with midget trannies peeing on each other."2) Freezing extra embryos is standard operating procedure everywhere. The part of the procedure that is most expensive and most hazardous to a woman's health is the part where you inject her with a bunch of drugs to make a lot of eggs to be harvested. If you have some embryos on ice, you can avoid that whole part. My first kid was once a frozen embryo. 3) I think most people consider adoption at some point. After we had IVF fail a few times, we met with an adoption agency worker for an initial consult. I'm sure if we had ended up adopting we would have loved the kid just as much as we love our kids now, but it's hard to make that choice. And the whole process of adoption freaked us out a little bit.
BYOP is my SOP. The first time I went they handed me a 1996 PH. It didn't move.
And it's not like you have to smuggle in a magazine or a tape. It's 2010. There's iPhones.
 
3 out of 5 said:
and it seems like it is raining babies with our friends and family. Never really noticed how many pregnant ladies are walking around on the street.
this was one of the worst parts about the whole process...it was unbelievable really
I had to bring my own selection just in case you don't have anything with midget trannies peeing on each other
:bag: :thumbup:
I think most people consider adoption at some point. After we had IVF fail a few times, we met with an adoption agency worker for an initial consult.
As some here know, we ended up doing both. Adopted a newborn and have been with him since he was 5 minutes old. Tried our luck with IVF one final time and hit a grand slam. It was a long and trying process but we stayed positive and hoped for the best that it would all work out.Best of luck to everyone.
 
Just went through our first round of IUI trying for number two (I got some monster-headed sperm, apparently, and as such floppolinho number one seems to have been a miracle child). I'm not sure how much we both have in us emotionally, physically and financially in going down this route. Hope the turkey baster worked... we'll see.

 
Just went through our first round of IUI trying for number two (I got some monster-headed sperm, apparently, and as such floppolinho number one seems to have been a miracle child). I'm not sure how much we both have in us emotionally, physically and financially in going down this route. Hope the turkey baster worked... we'll see.
good luck Floppo. Apparently our # 1 was a bit of a micracle baby as well, as we had quite a bit of trouble getting and staying pregnant with #2. We made it though, but it was quite a struggle. I hope it works out for you.
 
Just got back from the doctor to talk about IVF. Thanks to everyone with the questions. It was interesting b/c when we first started seeing our doctor, he was practicing at one hospital; but that hospital has since closed it's fertility operations due to some labeling problems a few years back (nothing to do with the doctor, but a little red flag nonetheless. Either way, he's in charge of getting finding a lab that can handle IVF....so he can't take us right now....which isn't necessarily a bad thing b/c we really got to talk to him about what to look for in different clinics.

Long story short, we're investigating some IVF places around the country. He referred us to this website to few certified IVF stats.....so it's a good place to start.

Curious to know if anyone else has gone this route (looking outside of your home area) and any tips/thoughts?

thx

 
We did everything up to and including IVF with no success other than a couple of miscarriages. After the second unsuccessful IVF, we agreed to take a break. My wife did acupuncture and we got pregnant naturally. Ditto for the second including IVF.

Eastern medicine has something that we don't get in the west.

 
Wow never saw this thread.

Wife and I have been through 2 IUIs and 1 IVF. Both IUIs took but we lost the 1st baby because of chromosomal problems at 9 weeks. We both went and got tested for genetic anomalies after that and everything came up fine. The 2nd IUI, everything was going great up until 19 weeks, then the fetus got an infection in the amniotic sack and we ended up losing her too. Total mindfu** since the wife had to deliver her. That was 3 weeks ago and it's been tough on us both. Good luck to anyone trying out there, it's a trying process to say the least.

ETA: Both times wifey got pregnant, she was going for acupuncture. I recommend too.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
We did everything up to and including IVF with no success other than a couple of miscarriages. After the second unsuccessful IVF, we agreed to take a break. My wife did acupuncture and we got pregnant naturally. Ditto for the second including IVF.Eastern medicine has something that we don't get in the west.
We did acupuncture in conjunction with our one successful round of IVF at a place that specialized in "reproductive acupuncture." Most of the doctors at our fertility clinic recommended it. I'd totally forgotten about that, so I'm glad you brought it up.As far as the adult entertainment goes, I hope to sit down some day with my son and watch the video of the buxom young real estate agent giving her dad's friend a "special tour" of an available home.
 
We did everything up to and including IVF with no success other than a couple of miscarriages. After the second unsuccessful IVF, we agreed to take a break. My wife did acupuncture and we got pregnant naturally. Ditto for the second including IVF.Eastern medicine has something that we don't get in the west.
I've heard accupuncture works from like 3 different people. How did you go about finding someone?
 
Curious to know if anyone else has gone this route (looking outside of your home area) and any tips/thoughts?
I don't understand exactly how it would work. Would you need to take a week or two for vacation to get to the place where it was done? It's not like a single surgery. Even if you did all the preliminary stuff at home, you still need to be there for the retrieval and then back there a few days later for the implantation. And you can't just set a date for the retrieval and show up -- it needs to be whenever the eggs are ready.
 
Curious to know if anyone else has gone this route (looking outside of your home area) and any tips/thoughts?
I don't understand exactly how it would work. Would you need to take a week or two for vacation to get to the place where it was done? It's not like a single surgery. Even if you did all the preliminary stuff at home, you still need to be there for the retrieval and then back there a few days later for the implantation. And you can't just set a date for the retrieval and show up -- it needs to be whenever the eggs are ready.
Yeah, basically you'd need to commit to being in that location for anywhere b/w 3-6 days. So each circumstance is unique based on location (driving distance or easy flight...), vacation time, any family in the area, etc...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Curious to know if anyone else has gone this route (looking outside of your home area) and any tips/thoughts?
I don't understand exactly how it would work. Would you need to take a week or two for vacation to get to the place where it was done? It's not like a single surgery. Even if you did all the preliminary stuff at home, you still need to be there for the retrieval and then back there a few days later for the implantation. And you can't just set a date for the retrieval and show up -- it needs to be whenever the eggs are ready.
Exactly. You need a place within an hour from home to be honest. We had to cancel a vacation because of the shot.harvest cycle timing and since we have a little bundle of joy to show for it, I will take that trade everytime.Still, you need to go to easily a dozen plus appointments, so you need something close to home.
 
Wow never saw this thread.Wife and I have been through 2 IUIs and 1 IVF. Both IUIs took but we lost the 1st baby because of chromosomal problems at 9 weeks. We both went and got tested for genetic anomalies after that and everything came up fine. The 2nd IUI, everything was going great up until 19 weeks, then the fetus got an infection in the amniotic sack and we ended up losing her too. Total mindfu** since the wife had to deliver her. That was 3 weeks ago and it's been tough on us both. Good luck to anyone trying out there, it's a trying process to say the least.ETA: Both times wifey got pregnant, she was going for acupuncture. I recommend too.
oh.... dude. :lmao: I can't even imagine what you guys have gone/are going through.
 
Curious to know if anyone else has gone this route (looking outside of your home area) and any tips/thoughts?
I don't understand exactly how it would work. Would you need to take a week or two for vacation to get to the place where it was done? It's not like a single surgery. Even if you did all the preliminary stuff at home, you still need to be there for the retrieval and then back there a few days later for the implantation. And you can't just set a date for the retrieval and show up -- it needs to be whenever the eggs are ready.
Yeah, basically you'd need to commit to being in that location for anywhere b/w 3-6 days. So each circumstance is unique based on location (driving distance or easy flight...), vacation time, any family in the area, etc...
This seems like it could be tough to coordinate. Although I guess it could be sort of cool to set it up like a vacation. Not sure you would really be able to enjoy it though. The whole thing is just so ####### stressful. I'm feeling anxious just thinking about it and my kids are already 6 and 4 years old. Where do you live?
 
Curious to know if anyone else has gone this route (looking outside of your home area) and any tips/thoughts?
I don't understand exactly how it would work. Would you need to take a week or two for vacation to get to the place where it was done? It's not like a single surgery. Even if you did all the preliminary stuff at home, you still need to be there for the retrieval and then back there a few days later for the implantation. And you can't just set a date for the retrieval and show up -- it needs to be whenever the eggs are ready.
Yeah, basically you'd need to commit to being in that location for anywhere b/w 3-6 days. So each circumstance is unique based on location (driving distance or easy flight...), vacation time, any family in the area, etc...
This seems like it could be tough to coordinate. Although I guess it could be sort of cool to set it up like a vacation. Not sure you would really be able to enjoy it though. The whole thing is just so ####### stressful. I'm feeling anxious just thinking about it and my kids are already 6 and 4 years old. Where do you live?
In new orleans. Luckily there are a bunch of places in texas that would be an easy flight on Southwest.....also, since our doctor doesn't perform the IVF's, he would be able to administer all of the pre-IVF stuff so we wouldn't have to go back and forth. Not saying we're definitely going to do it, but we've got options.
 
In new orleans. Luckily there are a bunch of places in texas that would be an easy flight on Southwest.....also, since our doctor doesn't perform the IVF's, he would be able to administer all of the pre-IVF stuff so we wouldn't have to go back and forth. Not saying we're definitely going to do it, but we've got options.
I just googled "New Orleans IVF" and it seems like there are a few places that do it. What's the motivation to go to Texas? Are the places in New Orleans supposed to be really bad?
 
Just went through our first round of IUI trying for number two (I got some monster-headed sperm, apparently, and as such floppolinho number one seems to have been a miracle child). I'm not sure how much we both have in us emotionally, physically and financially in going down this route. Hope the turkey baster worked... we'll see.
good luck Floppo. Apparently our # 1 was a bit of a micracle baby as well, as we had quite a bit of trouble getting and staying pregnant with #2. We made it though, but it was quite a struggle. I hope it works out for you.
Currently working on baby #2 as well. I'm 39 and my wife is 35. This was our third month of really trying. We just got through a week of trying to make a baby which was pretty fun. :yes: Doing the whole body temp, etc. WE'll see how it goes. If this month doesn't work we're going to talk to her OBGYN. The past two months her period has came a few days earlier than it should have, so the egg doesn't have enough time to travel it's natural course. HOpefully we were lucky this month though.
 
In new orleans. Luckily there are a bunch of places in texas that would be an easy flight on Southwest.....also, since our doctor doesn't perform the IVF's, he would be able to administer all of the pre-IVF stuff so we wouldn't have to go back and forth. Not saying we're definitely going to do it, but we've got options.
I just googled "New Orleans IVF" and it seems like there are a few places that do it. What's the motivation to go to Texas? Are the places in New Orleans supposed to be really bad?
There's only 1 place in N.O. (one recently closed). This was the place we went first (where the guy put us through 3 IUIs before he suggested that I get a thorough test). What turned out to be a $20 co pay for me (finding out I had an issue) could have prevented us in wasting $6k in IUI with my bad sperm.There's some places in texas that have 10-30% better success rates then the one here in nola
 
Tar Heel Boy said:
commisholio said:
El Floppo said:
Just went through our first round of IUI trying for number two (I got some monster-headed sperm, apparently, and as such floppolinho number one seems to have been a miracle child). I'm not sure how much we both have in us emotionally, physically and financially in going down this route. Hope the turkey baster worked... we'll see.
good luck Floppo. Apparently our # 1 was a bit of a micracle baby as well, as we had quite a bit of trouble getting and staying pregnant with #2. We made it though, but it was quite a struggle. I hope it works out for you.
Currently working on baby #2 as well. I'm 39 and my wife is 35. This was our third month of really trying. We just got through a week of trying to make a baby which was pretty fun. :popcorn: Doing the whole body temp, etc. WE'll see how it goes. If this month doesn't work we're going to talk to her OBGYN. The past two months her period has came a few days earlier than it should have, so the egg doesn't have enough time to travel it's natural course. HOpefully we were lucky this month though.
Gl!42 and 40 here, with what we found out after #1 are some complications with both of us (her womb was a rocky place where my monster headed seed could find no purchase). We tried a few months of teh humping, but given all of the above knew we'd be seeing baby doc duvalier right quick. Wife is doing the PT sometime within the next week :fingerscrossed:
 
And given the talk about having to travel for this- which I'd definitely do- makes me happy to live in NYC where there's baby-docs practically next to every hot-dog cart around here.

 
42 and 40 here, with what we found out after #1 are some complications with both of us (her womb was a rocky place where my monster headed seed could find no purchase). We tried a few months of teh humping, but given all of the above knew we'd be seeing baby doc duvalier right quick. Wife is doing the PT sometime within the next week :fingerscrossed:
well done, sir.
 
Anyone had any luck or experience with gluten sensitivity or wheat/soy/other food allergies as an explanation for unexplained infertility?

 
Anyone had any luck or experience with gluten sensitivity or wheat/soy/other food allergies as an explanation for unexplained infertility?
This may or may not correlate, but while going through the IVF process, the doctor had us on the maintenance phase of South Beach diet (which is basically no white flour or sugar) for the past 2 months
 
Jumping in here too..Wish me luck.

1st child made easily...no issues. He's now 3.

We tried in September of last year, conceived right out of the gate. Wife had a miscarriage a month later.

We waited...tried again in January and conceived in February. In March my wife had an ectopic pregnancy (fetus gets stuck in a fallopian tube), and had to use a low dosage of a chemotherapy drug to essentially dissolve the embryo, which took about two months.

We decided to go to a fertility doctor, who did a test of my wife's insides, which essentially revealed that one of the tubes (the one with the ectopic pregnancy) was big enough to get sperm through it, but not big enough to let a fertized egg pass through.

So now we are going to the doctor on a monthly basis to determine if it is "safe" to ry to conceive again, and all other times, it is condom only, with my wife being terrified that she might have accidentally gotten pregnant on the "bad" side.

From start to finish, it has been pure AWESOMENESS!!

 
:blackdot:

As if our fire wasn't bad enough. Insurance covered three rounds of IuI... last one was in the midst of the fire. Not suprised no dice. Looking at uncovered IVF next... cha-ching. Hooray.

 
We are trying acupuncture next, before our last IUI and any thought of IVF.

I read somewhere that they recommend 3-4 months of acupuncture before any attempt at IUI or IVF. That seems like a long time to me. Any thoughts?

 
This thread makes me feel a little bad about not wanting kids (assuming my little spermies are fully capable of making kids).

GLA

Keep trying. ;)

 
had the retreival this morning. Got 8 good size eggs. Hopefully enough of the fertilized eggs will incubate so we can transfer 2 on day 5 and freeze the rest

:crossesfingers:

 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.

I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.

 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Tough call here. I'd imagine your ex might have some claim to or interest in these embryos as well?
 
:unsure:As if our fire wasn't bad enough. Insurance covered three rounds of IuI... last one was in the midst of the fire. Not suprised no dice. Looking at uncovered IVF next... cha-ching. Hooray.
Sorry Floppo - with that kind of stress going on the deck was stacked against you the last round. Terrible timing. Assuming IUI is the same thing as AI, which I think it is, we went through 8 rounds (and 3 different specialists) before we were blessed with my oldest son. Don't give up hope!
 
We are trying acupuncture next, before our last IUI and any thought of IVF. I read somewhere that they recommend 3-4 months of acupuncture before any attempt at IUI or IVF. That seems like a long time to me. Any thoughts?
I think the main question is age of your wife. If she's over 35 or pushing 40, every month that goes by becomes exponentially more valuable in my opinion, and I'd be more apt to attempt more IUI (or IVF) instead of acupuncture.
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.

I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Me and my wife are getting ready to try embryo adoption. If you are interested in donating the embryos instead of storing them yourself, there may be a couple out there like us that would be blessed to be able to use them. Contact the NEDC or a similar agency if interested. There are no fees for donating (at least through the NEDC).
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.

I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Me and my wife are getting ready to try embryo adoption. If you are interested in donating the embryos instead of storing them yourself, there may be a couple out there like us that would be blessed to be able to use them. Contact the NEDC or a similar agency if interested. There are no fees for donating (at least through the NEDC).
Could Mrs Worm have rovers baby? That would surely be a FFA first.
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
We had to sign all sorts of waivers in case of this. Do you remember doing this? Perhaps your state doesn't require it, or 6 years ago it wasn't required :goodposting:
 
:goodposting:As if our fire wasn't bad enough. Insurance covered three rounds of IuI... last one was in the midst of the fire. Not suprised no dice. Looking at uncovered IVF next... cha-ching. Hooray.
Sorry to hear that. do you live in a city with a wide selection of fertility doctors? I was very surprised at all of the differences b/w the prices in our area.
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.

I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Me and my wife are getting ready to try embryo adoption. If you are interested in donating the embryos instead of storing them yourself, there may be a couple out there like us that would be blessed to be able to use them. Contact the NEDC or a similar agency if interested. There are no fees for donating (at least through the NEDC).
Could Mrs Worm have rovers baby? That would surely be a FFA first.
You'd have to name the baby Shuke or something
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Tough call here. I'd imagine your ex might have some claim to or interest in these embryos as well?
of course. it's a weird issue for me, though. not to get into the whole debate about when life begins, etc., but when you see a 4-celled embryo grow into your child (I have color photos through the microscope of the embryo and 17 ultrasounds (high-risk pregnancy)), it gives you a different perspective of what exactly the embryos represent. basically, I have frozen the potential fraternal twin to my 6-year old daughter.
 
We did everything up to and including IVF with no success other than a couple of miscarriages. After the second unsuccessful IVF, we agreed to take a break. My wife did acupuncture and we got pregnant naturally. Ditto for the second including IVF.Eastern medicine has something that we don't get in the west.
Went with IVF and several rounds of acupuncture(hey it works) We're now expecting identical twinsI'm scared ####less.............but my/our excitement out-ways any fear 10 fold
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.

I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Me and my wife are getting ready to try embryo adoption. If you are interested in donating the embryos instead of storing them yourself, there may be a couple out there like us that would be blessed to be able to use them. Contact the NEDC or a similar agency if interested. There are no fees for donating (at least through the NEDC).
Could Mrs Worm have rovers baby? That would surely be a FFA first.
In...
 
I have been paying $480/year to store 3 frozen embryos since a successful IVF 6 years ago. We wanted a second child, but wife developed a condition that made it unsafe for her to go through pregnancy again. We were looking at a surrogate, but things went south and now we're getting divorced.

I just got the bill for frozen embryo storage. No idea what to do.
Me and my wife are getting ready to try embryo adoption. If you are interested in donating the embryos instead of storing them yourself, there may be a couple out there like us that would be blessed to be able to use them. Contact the NEDC or a similar agency if interested. There are no fees for donating (at least through the NEDC).
Could Mrs Worm have rovers baby? That would surely be a FFA first.
In...
most awkward cornhole of all time.hi, I'm your dad. you know, from teh innernets.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top