Turkey shoots down Russian jet (3 Viewers)

[Bucky86]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

 

[Shula-holic]

Don't you guys wish Donald Trump was in charge right now instead of having to wait another year and two months? He'd show them who's boss!!

Posts like this are beneath you Tim....or so I thought.

Why? Isn't it a legit question as to how each candidate might handle this situation?

I tell you this much, any candidate who thinks that a US/NATO no-fly zone is going to work needs to have his head examined. There can't be anything dumber or worse than US fighters crossing swords with the Russians over Syria. I could almost give Trump a pass for stupidity in comparison to more experienced politicians who have advocated disastrous policies in the past and who can't seem to get it in their thick skull that those policies were wrong and so seem all the more ready to do it all over again in the chaos they created just in a situation 1000X worse. The only candidates who seem to have this down right now are Sanders and Rand Paul. We have ceded this field to Russia.

I'm all for Russia to meddle in that situation as much as they want. Gives all the zealots someone to focus their need to fight on. I'm all for team Assad.

 

[Harry Manback]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

You clearly do since you can articulate the problem well enough.

Oh wait...

 

[Green and Gold]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

You clearly do since you can articulate the problem well enough.

Oh wait...

It only took one line for him to explain it, an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US. It doesn't really matter how it worked out before, if Turkey is invaded we go to war with Russia, and so do 27 other countries.

 

[grateful zed]

too soon

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great article here, from 9/16/13 after our capitulation on the chemical weapons issue and the removal of Assad:

America's Middle East Policy CollapsesThe United States and Russia have now averted U.S. military action against the Syrian regime for Bashar al-Assad’s use of chemical weapons against civilians. Is the agreement reached by Secretary Kerry and Foreign Minister Lavrov on September 9 a diplomatic triumph for the Obama administration, or was it, as retired British ambassador Charles Crawford called it, “the worst day for U.S. and wider Western diplomacy since records began?”

While perhaps not as bad as Ambassador Crawford suggests, we agree that the outcome is one of the worst defeats for U.S. foreign policy in decades. We write as two scholars and former national-security practitioners who agree on almost nothing else regarding Syria: one is a traditional realist who opposed military action against Assad, and the other is a recent arrival in the camp of the post-Cold War liberal internationalists who supported striking the Syrian regime. We come not only from diverging views but also from different academic disciplines (history and political science), and while both of us have served in positions relevant to American foreign and security policy, we speak on our own behalf, especially since we ourselves are otherwise so deeply divided about U.S. intervention overseas.

We share, however, a background in the study of Russia, and it is here that we find the outcome of the Syrian crisis to be so disastrous. For nearly seven decades, American efforts in the Middle East have been based on a bipartisan consensus—one of the few to be found in U.S. foreign policy—aimed at limiting Moscow’s influence in that region. This is a core interest of American foreign policy: it reflects the strategic importance of the region to us and to our allies, as well as the historical reality Russia has continually sought clients there who would oppose both Western interests and ideals. In less than a week, an unguarded utterance by a U.S. Secretary of State has undone those efforts. Not only is Moscow now Washington’s peer in the Middle East, but the United States has effectively outsourced any further management of security problems in the region to Russian president Vladimir Putin.

...

http://www.nationalinterest.org/commentary/americas-middle-east-policy-collapses-9073

- It's an excellent read IMO.

 

[Jobber]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

You clearly do since you can articulate the problem well enough.Oh wait...

It only took one line for him to explain it, an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US. It doesn't really matter how it worked out before, if Turkey is invaded we go to war with Russia, and so do 27 other countries.

That would never happen. This is Turkey, not the UK. Not to mention, Turkey is the aggressor and I believe that's an out for the rest of NATO.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Don't you guys wish Donald Trump was in charge right now instead of having to wait another year and two months? He'd show them who's boss!!

Posts like this are beneath you Tim....or so I thought.

Why? Isn't it a legit question as to how each candidate might handle this situation?

Nevermind. I was wrong. Juvenile responses about someone that has no baring on the situation is not beneath you.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

 

[Rove!]

So Russia is fighting on 50 fronts, mostly against rebels who are fighting Asaad, not ISIS. Today they were flying missions against moderate Syrian Rebels, were warned a dozen times by the Turks, and did not respond. The pilot then was shot from the ground by the moderate Rebels.

Basically Russia is using satellite data that is 24 hours old and ground Intel provided by Asaad's regime. Then the pilots get on site, look out the window, and start dropping bombs hoping they hit something.

They are 30+ years behind the U.S. In military technology and probably behind the Turks also. Some Americans seem to think what Russia is doing in Syria is somehow a strong response and/or it's war plan is to eliminate ISIS. What it is however is akin to a blindfolded guy swinging at a piñata. Pretty much anyone on the ground in Syria is at risk of dying from an intended or stray Russian bomb, and the Russians simply don't give a #### if they are hitting the right or wrong targets.

...and they're allegedly dropping WP.

Hey remember when the president asked for an AUMF in August 2013 against Syria because Assad had used chemical weapons and Russia then avoided all that by promising to take them all away?

Yeah.

And yet in 2012 we had a chance for Assad to step down in a deal with the Russians.

And here we are.

Russian warplanes have dropped banned white phosphorus munitions on civilians in northwest Syria, witnesses claimed yesterday as the Kremlin increased the number of its airstrikes on rebel-held areas. The incendiary weapon is used by armies to illuminate targets during the night or as a smokescreen during daylight hours. It is illegal under international law if fired over areas where there is a high number of civilians because the chemical is highly flammable and can burn through flesh and bone.

Don't you guys wish Donald Trump was in charge right now instead of having to wait another year and two months? He'd show them who's boss!!

I don't think he could possibly bungle it worse than it has already been bungled

 

[Eephus]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

 

[Righetti]

So in one respect you are happy the US isn't putting any boots on the ground but then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction and that doesn't seem right.

They are flying hundreds of missions over Syria and have taken on a big offensive, in turn the US has ceded the entire RISK board to Putin and we're in a spot where we (along with our closest 27 NATO-y friends) are bound to defend Turkey if the Russia goes to war after this. So some Russian fighter gets a little too close to the equivalent of Turkish Maine and now we are in a big cluster duck with a dude who likes to prance around topless. But even that isn't enough, there is whole thing about us having idea what the hell we are doing and I, for one, have no idea who I am suppose to like and who I am bound to hate

What I know is that we hate ISIS who hate Assad who we hate too. Assad is backed by Putin who we hate and he is backing Iran who we kind of hate, although not as much as before. Iran has been funneling money to Hezbollah who we hate but are not the thorn in our side that Al Qaeda has been, who of course we hate. AQ are backed by the Saudis who we like (for some inexplicable reason). We hated Saddam Hussein but he kept the hated Iranians at bay but we got rid of him and that created AQ in Iraq who we hated. Al Qaeda in Iraq sort of spawned ISIS but the Mothership (Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) hates ISIS which makes us unlikely allies. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, the Arabs and the Persians hate each other, we are backing some freedom fighters in Syria who are probably some form of Al Qaeda or some new group of mujahideen and they will eventually hate us but for the same reason as they all hate us (see as as invaders of the ME). We decided to like them because they hate Assad but they might be indifferent to ISIS or maybe they are ISIS. We know the Turks (who we like) hate the Armenians (who we like), and hate the Kurds (who we like),and hate the Syrians (who we hate). The problem is that now their overplayed hand may have just forced us into a spot where we are on the brink of war with a country who we sort of hate over a country we kind of hate while we would be better off offing the people we actually hate.
Basically we hate everybody and the ones we like we should hate and the ones we hate we should hate and the ones who hate us are much more passionate about their hatred for us than our hatred for them.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

Actually that raises a question - what's going on here?

- Russia gets Black Sea port at Sebastopol back by taking Crimea.

- Russia moves into Syria.

- Russia expands its base at Tartus, Syria.

- Russia allies with Iran, Iraq, Hezbullah and bonds itself with Syria in a whole new way.

- Russia bumps up against Turkey, causes conflict and a good deal of concern in western political circles.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

Actually that raises a question - what's going on here?

- Russia gets Black Sea port at Sebastopol back by taking Crimea.

- Russia moves into Syria.

- Russia expands its base at Tartus, Syria.

- Russia allies with Iran, Iraq, Hezbullah and bonds itself with Syria in a whole new way.

- Russia bumps up against Turkey, causes conflict and a good deal of concern in western political circles.

Well I think you laid it out pretty well here.

 

[Righetti]

That Reuters article Saints posted is fascinating

 

[Rove!]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

Which makes the 2007 US Congessional push to recognize the Armenian Genocide baffling. Right in the heart of the surge against Al Qaeda in Iraq which became ISIS, some congressmen thought it was a good idea to antagonize that important ally....

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

Which makes the 2007 US Congessional push to recognize the Armenian Genocide baffling. Right in the heart of the surge against Al Qaeda in Iraq which became ISIS, some congressmen thought it was a good idea to antagonize that important ally....

you saying the Armenian genocide didn't happen?

 

[TPW]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

Turkey denied U.S. forces the use of its territory during the 2003 invasion of Iraq which severely disrupted our two-front battle plan. Paratroopers were dropped into northern Iraq but nowhere near the full Army division which had been proposed. It's arguable that this action resulted a greater loss of American lives during the invasion than otherwise would have been the case by allowing the Iraqis to concentrate their forces in the south.

The Turks were a key ally during the Cold War and have done us a favor by not attacking the Kurds whom they absolutely hate. However, the Erdogan government these days has become increasingly dominated by Islamists and they are neck deep in with ISIS behind the scenes.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

 

[Tau837]

...then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction...

And the way they are doing it is particularly bad: Syrians Are Paying A High Price For Russia’s Cheap Bombs

 

[Rove!]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

Which makes the 2007 US Congessional push to recognize the Armenian Genocide baffling. Right in the heart of the surge against Al Qaeda in Iraq which became ISIS, some congressmen thought it was a good idea to antagonize that important ally....

you saying the Armenian genocide didn't happen?

In 1915...bringing it up in 2007 seemed to be poorly timed in light of the ongoing wars....

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Honestly, #### Turkey. I hope Russian demolishes them.

You do know that as a NATO ally an attack on Turkey is an attack on the US?

Do you know how well this worked in WWI?

So, see, you do realize how bad it is if Russia "demolishes" them. Not for the sake of Turkey (not much love for the Turks from me) but what it would mean to the world and us.

What would it mean?

I am starting to think that you don't know what NATO is.

Something that has out lived its usefulness??? And why on earth would they allow the turks in is beyond me

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

Which makes the 2007 US Congessional push to recognize the Armenian Genocide baffling. Right in the heart of the surge against Al Qaeda in Iraq which became ISIS, some congressmen thought it was a good idea to antagonize that important ally....

you saying the Armenian genocide didn't happen?

In 1915...bringing it up in 2007 seemed to be poorly timed in light of the ongoing wars....

Yeah and turkey being a good ally ended along time ago

 

[Rove!]

DD, what's your take on this?

You can't fly in sovereign airspace with military fighter jets without explicit, and confirmed approval. Same as it has always been.Russia has been warned by both the U.S and Turkey to not enter Turkish airspace. But Russia does what Russia wants to do, they are habitual line steppers.

Turkey's action seems harsh but we are talking about Russia, the same country who has invaded several neighbors recently and shot down a plane full of civilians with basically no remorse.

I say #### them, good for Turkey.

Turkey said they warned that particular jet 10 times before shooting it down

We don't know the jet was in Turkey. It landed 4 KM inside Syria.

Turkey captured images on their radar with the jets inside Turkey.Also by international law, they can query and respond to any aircraft within 22 kilometers of their border. If they sent warnings and Russia was in Turkey for even a second, an international court is going to side with the Turks. Russia basically provoked them.

Or the simple explanation is that the plane was over Syria when it was shot down

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-jet-hit-inside-syria-incursion-turkey-u-010811956.html

 

[lakerstan]

From an article 10 days ago...

“Turkey basically wants to drag NATO into this situation because the actual goal of Turkey is to neutralize Assad…ISIS’s actions and what’s happening to the Kurds are subsidiary…and it has to be clearly said that an ally who behaves like this doesn’t deserve the protection of this alliance, an ally who doesn’t intervene for protection in a such tragic situation doesn’t deserve protection himself.”

Makes you wonder if this dude was on to something...

http://atimes.com/2015/11/german-general-nato-article-5-wont-apply-to-turkeys-buffer-zone-in-syria/

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Turkey has been a NATO member since 1952

The Bosphorus was pretty strategic during the Cold War.

And they probably were our most crucial ally during both Iraq operations and in Afghanistan. It is by far the most strategically located NATO country and although we've had our ups and downs over the years, a staunch U.S. ally.

Turkey denied U.S. forces the use of its territory during the 2003 invasion of Iraq which severely disrupted our two-front battle plan.

This lasted a whole three weeks. They voted to not allow us in on March 1st, they voted to allow us use on March 20th. We invaded Iraq on March 19th. We could not fly combat sorties from Turkey but we were able to do airdrops and resupply.

Paratroopers were dropped into northern Iraq but nowhere near the full Army division which had been proposed. It's arguable that this action resulted a greater loss of American lives during the invasion than otherwise would have been the case by allowing the Iraqis to concentrate their forces in the south.

Who is arguing that? U.S. lost 139 troops in the invasion, and that was spread out throughout the campaign, with the majority of the deaths occuring in and around Baghdad. After Basra there was little resistance between there and Baghdad, the Air Force made sure of that.

Paratroopers were dropped in Kirkuk and they had great success working with the Kurds. The South was more critical because we wanted to shut down the port city of Basra first, then march to Baghdad from the south. Troops had supply lines coming from Turkey the whole time.

According to General Tommy Franks, April Fool, an American officer working undercover as a diplomat, was approached by an Iraqi intelligence agent. April Fool then sold to the Iraqi false "top secret" invasion plans provided by Franks' team. This decoy deception successfully misled the Iraqi military into deploying major forces in Northern and Western Iraq in anticipation of attacks by way of Turkey or Jordan, which never took place. This greatly reduced the defensive capacity in the rest of Iraq and significantly facilitated the actual attacks via Kuwait and the Persian Gulf in the southeast.

Since you don't know a lot about this or Turkish/American relations you can read this if you want. Then the insurgency began because the Bush administration thought that once we toppled Hussein, the good people of Iraq would be at peace and immediately have elections, parades, and confetti parties. Then we lost 4500 more U.S. lives, but that's for a different bed time story.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

DD, what's your take on this?

You can't fly in sovereign airspace with military fighter jets without explicit, and confirmed approval. Same as it has always been.Russia has been warned by both the U.S and Turkey to not enter Turkish airspace. But Russia does what Russia wants to do, they are habitual line steppers.

Turkey's action seems harsh but we are talking about Russia, the same country who has invaded several neighbors recently and shot down a plane full of civilians with basically no remorse.

I say #### them, good for Turkey.

Turkey said they warned that particular jet 10 times before shooting it down

We don't know the jet was in Turkey. It landed 4 KM inside Syria.

Turkey captured images on their radar with the jets inside Turkey.Also by international law, they can query and respond to any aircraft within 22 kilometers of their border. If they sent warnings and Russia was in Turkey for even a second, an international court is going to side with the Turks. Russia basically provoked them.

Or the simple explanation is that the plane was over Syria when it was shot down

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-jet-hit-inside-syria-incursion-turkey-u-010811956.html

Doesn't change what I said does it? Fighers came into Turkish airspace, Turks did what they felt was necessary to defend their sovereignty.

Best believe if the U.S. had some unidentified fighter jets coming at Anchorage or Seattle in our airspace and we attempted to contact those aircraft with negative response, that we would do the same.

 

[Otis]

Turkey just getting some advance vengeance for thanksgiving.

 

[Otis]

I wonder if Russia maybe was taking my posts about leveling the place a bit too seriously?

 

[dschuler]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

 

[mr roboto]

So in one respect you are happy the US isn't putting any boots on the ground but then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction and that doesn't seem right They are flying hundreds of missions over Syria and have taken on a big offensive, in turn the US has ceded the entire RISK board to Putin and we're in a spot where we (along with our closest 27 NATO-y friends) are bound to defend Turkey if the Russia goes to war after this. So some Russian fighter gets a little too close to the equivalent of Turkish Maine and now we are in a big cluster duck with a dude who likes to prance around topless. But even that isn't enough, is the fact that we have no idea what the hell we are doing and I, for one, have no idea who I am suppose to like and who I am bound to hate

What I know is that we hate ISIS who hate Assad who we hate too. Assad is backed by Putin who we hate and he is backing Iran who we kind of hate although not as much as before who have been funneling money to Hezbollah who we hate but are not the thorn in our side that Al Qaeda has been, who of course we hate but they are backed by the Saudis who we like (for some inexplicable reason). We hated Saddam Hussein but he kept the hated Iranians at bay but we got rid of him and that created AQ in Iraq who we hated. Al Qaeda in Iraq sort of spawned ISIS but the Mothership (Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) hates ISIS which makes us unlikely allies. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, the Arabs and the Persians hate each other, we are backing some freedom fighters in Syria who are probably some form of Al Qaeda or some new group of mujahideen and they will eventually hate us but for the same reason as they all hate us (see as as invaders of the ME) but we decided to like them because they hate Assad but might be indifferent to ISIS or maybe they are ISIS. We know the Turks, who we like, hate the Armenians, who we like, and the Kurds, who we like, and hate the Syrians, who we hate, but now their overplayed hand may have just forced us into a spot where we are on the brink of war with a country who we sort of hate over a country we kind of hate while we would be better off offing the people we actually hate.

Basically we hate everybody and the ones we like we should hate and the ones we hate we should hate and the ones who hate us are much more passionate about their hatred for us than our hatred for them.

I'm almost positive this is close to correct. Great summary here IMO.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

 

[Mister CIA]

So in one respect you are happy the US isn't putting any boots on the ground but then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction and that doesn't seem right They are flying hundreds of missions over Syria and have taken on a big offensive, in turn the US has ceded the entire RISK board to Putin and we're in a spot where we (along with our closest 27 NATO-y friends) are bound to defend Turkey if the Russia goes to war after this. So some Russian fighter gets a little too close to the equivalent of Turkish Maine and now we are in a big cluster duck with a dude who likes to prance around topless. But even that isn't enough, is the fact that we have no idea what the hell we are doing and I, for one, have no idea who I am suppose to like and who I am bound to hate

What I know is that we hate ISIS who hate Assad who we hate too. Assad is backed by Putin who we hate and he is backing Iran who we kind of hate although not as much as before who have been funneling money to Hezbollah who we hate but are not the thorn in our side that Al Qaeda has been, who of course we hate but they are backed by the Saudis who we like (for some inexplicable reason). We hated Saddam Hussein but he kept the hated Iranians at bay but we got rid of him and that created AQ in Iraq who we hated. Al Qaeda in Iraq sort of spawned ISIS but the Mothership (Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) hates ISIS which makes us unlikely allies. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, the Arabs and the Persians hate each other, we are backing some freedom fighters in Syria who are probably some form of Al Qaeda or some new group of mujahideen and they will eventually hate us but for the same reason as they all hate us (see as as invaders of the ME) but we decided to like them because they hate Assad but might be indifferent to ISIS or maybe they are ISIS. We know the Turks, who we like, hate the Armenians, who we like, and the Kurds, who we like, and hate the Syrians, who we hate, but now their overplayed hand may have just forced us into a spot where we are on the brink of war with a country who we sort of hate over a country we kind of hate while we would be better off offing the people we actually hate.

Basically we hate everybody and the ones we like we should hate and the ones we hate we should hate and the ones who hate us are much more passionate about their hatred for us than our hatred for them.

Remember The Maine!!

ETA: Great writing by the way.

Sincerely,

Many Millions

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So in one respect you are happy the US isn't putting any boots on the ground but then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction and that doesn't seem right They are flying hundreds of missions over Syria and have taken on a big offensive, in turn the US has ceded the entire RISK board to Putin and we're in a spot where we (along with our closest 27 NATO-y friends) are bound to defend Turkey if the Russia goes to war after this. So some Russian fighter gets a little too close to the equivalent of Turkish Maine and now we are in a big cluster duck with a dude who likes to prance around topless. But even that isn't enough, is the fact that we have no idea what the hell we are doing and I, for one, have no idea who I am suppose to like and who I am bound to hate

What I know is that we hate ISIS who hate Assad who we hate too. Assad is backed by Putin who we hate and he is backing Iran who we kind of hate although not as much as before who have been funneling money to Hezbollah who we hate but are not the thorn in our side that Al Qaeda has been, who of course we hate but they are backed by the Saudis who we like (for some inexplicable reason). We hated Saddam Hussein but he kept the hated Iranians at bay but we got rid of him and that created AQ in Iraq who we hated. Al Qaeda in Iraq sort of spawned ISIS but the Mothership (Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) hates ISIS which makes us unlikely allies. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, the Arabs and the Persians hate each other, we are backing some freedom fighters in Syria who are probably some form of Al Qaeda or some new group of mujahideen and they will eventually hate us but for the same reason as they all hate us (see as as invaders of the ME) but we decided to like them because they hate Assad but might be indifferent to ISIS or maybe they are ISIS. We know the Turks, who we like, hate the Armenians, who we like, and the Kurds, who we like, and hate the Syrians, who we hate, but now their overplayed hand may have just forced us into a spot where we are on the brink of war with a country who we sort of hate over a country we kind of hate while we would be better off offing the people we actually hate.

Basically we hate everybody and the ones we like we should hate and the ones we hate we should hate and the ones who hate us are much more passionate about their hatred for us than our hatred for them.

Good lord, I think you deserve some kind of prize.

 

[Otis]

So in one respect you are happy the US isn't putting any boots on the ground but then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction and that doesn't seem right They are flying hundreds of missions over Syria and have taken on a big offensive, in turn the US has ceded the entire RISK board to Putin and we're in a spot where we (along with our closest 27 NATO-y friends) are bound to defend Turkey if the Russia goes to war after this. So some Russian fighter gets a little too close to the equivalent of Turkish Maine and now we are in a big cluster duck with a dude who likes to prance around topless. But even that isn't enough, is the fact that we have no idea what the hell we are doing and I, for one, have no idea who I am suppose to like and who I am bound to hate

What I know is that we hate ISIS who hate Assad who we hate too. Assad is backed by Putin who we hate and he is backing Iran who we kind of hate although not as much as before who have been funneling money to Hezbollah who we hate but are not the thorn in our side that Al Qaeda has been, who of course we hate but they are backed by the Saudis who we like (for some inexplicable reason). We hated Saddam Hussein but he kept the hated Iranians at bay but we got rid of him and that created AQ in Iraq who we hated. Al Qaeda in Iraq sort of spawned ISIS but the Mothership (Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) hates ISIS which makes us unlikely allies. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, the Arabs and the Persians hate each other, we are backing some freedom fighters in Syria who are probably some form of Al Qaeda or some new group of mujahideen and they will eventually hate us but for the same reason as they all hate us (see as as invaders of the ME) but we decided to like them because they hate Assad but might be indifferent to ISIS or maybe they are ISIS. We know the Turks, who we like, hate the Armenians, who we like, and the Kurds, who we like, and hate the Syrians, who we hate, but now their overplayed hand may have just forced us into a spot where we are on the brink of war with a country who we sort of hate over a country we kind of hate while we would be better off offing the people we actually hate.

Basically we hate everybody and the ones we like we should hate and the ones we hate we should hate and the ones who hate us are much more passionate about their hatred for us than our hatred for them.

I'm almost positive this is close to correct. Great summary here IMO.

Well done GB.

 

[Wooderson]

Turkey just getting some advance vengeance for thanksgiving.

Hey look everyone a "Turkey" joke.

 

[Rove!]

Turkey just getting some advance vengeance for thanksgiving.

Hey look everyone a "Turkey" joke.

And Thanksgiving is coming up too!!!!!1111!!!!!!1!!!

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

So Russia is fighting on 50 fronts, mostly against rebels who are fighting Asaad, not ISIS. Today they were flying missions against moderate Syrian Rebels, were warned a dozen times by the Turks, and did not respond. The pilot then was shot from the ground by the moderate Rebels.

Don't you mean that Turkish F-16s downed the Russian fighter? The rebels might have hit the Russian search and rescue helicopter, but I'm pretty sure everything I've seen has the Syrian Rebels on the ground not being involved in the initial SU-24.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So Russia is fighting on 50 fronts, mostly against rebels who are fighting Asaad, not ISIS. Today they were flying missions against moderate Syrian Rebels, were warned a dozen times by the Turks, and did not respond. The pilot then was shot from the ground by the moderate Rebels.

Don't you mean that Turkish F-16s downed the Russian fighter? The rebels might have hit the Russian search and rescue helicopter, but I'm pretty sure everything I've seen has the Syrian Rebels on the ground not being involved in the initial SU-24.

The parachuting pilot was apparently shot by Syrian rebels.

 

[russinfortworth]

So in one respect you are happy the US isn't putting any boots on the ground but then you look and the Russians are bombing the hell out of anybody who even sneezed in Assad's direction and that doesn't seem right They are flying hundreds of missions over Syria and have taken on a big offensive, in turn the US has ceded the entire RISK board to Putin and we're in a spot where we (along with our closest 27 NATO-y friends) are bound to defend Turkey if the Russia goes to war after this. So some Russian fighter gets a little too close to the equivalent of Turkish Maine and now we are in a big cluster duck with a dude who likes to prance around topless. But even that isn't enough, is the fact that we have no idea what the hell we are doing and I, for one, have no idea who I am suppose to like and who I am bound to hate

What I know is that we hate ISIS who hate Assad who we hate too. Assad is backed by Putin who we hate and he is backing Iran who we kind of hate although not as much as before who have been funneling money to Hezbollah who we hate but are not the thorn in our side that Al Qaeda has been, who of course we hate but they are backed by the Saudis who we like (for some inexplicable reason). We hated Saddam Hussein but he kept the hated Iranians at bay but we got rid of him and that created AQ in Iraq who we hated. Al Qaeda in Iraq sort of spawned ISIS but the Mothership (Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) hates ISIS which makes us unlikely allies. The Sunnis and Shiites hate each other, the Arabs and the Persians hate each other, we are backing some freedom fighters in Syria who are probably some form of Al Qaeda or some new group of mujahideen and they will eventually hate us but for the same reason as they all hate us (see as as invaders of the ME) but we decided to like them because they hate Assad but might be indifferent to ISIS or maybe they are ISIS. We know the Turks, who we like, hate the Armenians, who we like, and the Kurds, who we like, and hate the Syrians, who we hate, but now their overplayed hand may have just forced us into a spot where we are on the brink of war with a country who we sort of hate over a country we kind of hate while we would be better off offing the people we actually hate.

Basically we hate everybody and the ones we like we should hate and the ones we hate we should hate and the ones who hate us are much more passionate about their hatred for us than our hatred for them.

I read this and about half way through it I swear my inner brain heard Will from Good Will Hunting. Good stuff here Rags...

 

[dschuler]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

Although that all might be true, what is also true is they didn't have the right to shoot it down if it was in Syria. And yeah, rocking that Cold War technology didn't work out too well for the Russians.

 

[Leviathan]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

Although that all might be true, what is also true is they didn't have the right to shoot it down if it was in Syria. And yeah, rocking that Cold War technology didn't work out too well for the Russians.

Cold War technology may be a factor. If Turkish F-16s shot down a Russian Mig-29 or an Su-34, would it make a difference? Dunno...

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

Although that all might be true, what is also true is they didn't have the right to shoot it down if it was in Syria. And yeah, rocking that Cold War technology didn't work out too well for the Russians.

Putin himself said the Russian fighters were 1 kilometer away from Turkey when attacked.

A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that it issued 10 warnings over five minutes but did not say all of those warnings occurred while the jet was in their airspace.

IMO Turkey had every right to fire upon the Russian fighters given the known variables. You also have to consider this part of Syria is not controlled by the Syrian government in Damascus, therefore it is really a no man's land. I mean the U.S. is flying sorties in northern Syria, we aren't getting permission to do so by the Syrian government. This is all a very big mess, and Russia made it worse today buy what I think is purposely baiting the Turks along the border. They thought they'd just fly through and laugh it up with the boys back at the base, but it didn't end that way.

 

[Fennis]

Russia has a history of playing chicken. I'm glad to see them get slapped back.

Ask the Swedes : http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/20/world/europe/sweden-russia-submarine-mystery/index.html

The Brits: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/11/23/with-no-sub-chasing-aircraft-of-its-own-uk-calls-on-allies-to-help-find-russian-submarine/

NATO: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/europe/nato-russia-aircraft-intercepted/index.html

US and Canada: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/us/russian-plane-incidents/index.html

 

[Leviathan]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

Although that all might be true, what is also true is they didn't have the right to shoot it down if it was in Syria. And yeah, rocking that Cold War technology didn't work out too well for the Russians.

Putin himself said the Russian fighters were 1 kilometer away from Turkey when attacked.

A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that it issued 10 warnings over five minutes but did not say all of those warnings occurred while the jet was in their airspace.

IMO Turkey had every right to fire upon the Russian fighters given the known variables. You also have to consider this part of Syria is not controlled by the Syrian government in Damascus, therefore it is really a no man's land. I mean the U.S. is flying sorties in northern Syria, we aren't getting permission to do so by the Syrian government. This is all a very big mess, and Russia made it worse today buy what I think is purposely baiting the Turks along the border. They thought they'd just fly through and laugh it up with the boys back at the base, but it didn't end that way.

Really?Seems to me that people who put their lives on the line (sans politics) do not laugh it up.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

Although that all might be true, what is also true is they didn't have the right to shoot it down if it was in Syria. And yeah, rocking that Cold War technology didn't work out too well for the Russians.

Putin himself said the Russian fighters were 1 kilometer away from Turkey when attacked.

A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that it issued 10 warnings over five minutes but did not say all of those warnings occurred while the jet was in their airspace.

IMO Turkey had every right to fire upon the Russian fighters given the known variables. You also have to consider this part of Syria is not controlled by the Syrian government in Damascus, therefore it is really a no man's land. I mean the U.S. is flying sorties in northern Syria, we aren't getting permission to do so by the Syrian government. This is all a very big mess, and Russia made it worse today buy what I think is purposely baiting the Turks along the border. They thought they'd just fly through and laugh it up with the boys back at the base, but it didn't end that way.

Really?Seems to me that people who put their lives on the line (sans politics) do not laugh it up.

Yeah, ok. You don't know Russians I guess. That's exactly what they'd do.

 

[Leviathan]

It's looking more and more like the Russian jet was in Syria when it was hit. I already assumed such, since it landed 4 KM inside the country. Might make this even more interesting.

That's 2.5 miles, so it's going to make zero difference. Russia shouldn't be anywhere near that close to Turkish airspace without prior warning, without responding to Turkish calls, and without a clear target in that area. They were doing what Russia does best, being a bully. And they paid for it. #### them and their 1970s Air Force.

Although that all might be true, what is also true is they didn't have the right to shoot it down if it was in Syria. And yeah, rocking that Cold War technology didn't work out too well for the Russians.

Putin himself said the Russian fighters were 1 kilometer away from Turkey when attacked.

A U.S. official told CNN that a calculation shows the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less. The Turkish government has said that it issued 10 warnings over five minutes but did not say all of those warnings occurred while the jet was in their airspace.

IMO Turkey had every right to fire upon the Russian fighters given the known variables. You also have to consider this part of Syria is not controlled by the Syrian government in Damascus, therefore it is really a no man's land. I mean the U.S. is flying sorties in northern Syria, we aren't getting permission to do so by the Syrian government. This is all a very big mess, and Russia made it worse today buy what I think is purposely baiting the Turks along the border. They thought they'd just fly through and laugh it up with the boys back at the base, but it didn't end that way.

Really?Seems to me that people who put their lives on the line (sans politics) do not laugh it up.

Yeah, ok. You don't know Russians I guess. That's exactly what they'd do.

You have no idea what I know.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

You have no idea what I know.

Besides the report button, doesn't seem like much.

 

[Leviathan]

You have no idea what I know.

Besides the report button, doesn't seem like much.

That's all you've got?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

You have no idea what I know.

Besides the report button, doesn't seem like much.

That's all you've got?

I'd ask you to prove me wrong, but I doubt you can. Good rollie roll you're on though, no content, all

 

[Leviathan]

You have no idea what I know.

Besides the report button, doesn't seem like much.

That's all you've got?

I'd ask you to prove me wrong, but I doubt you can. Good rollie roll you're on though, no content, all

Likewise. By all means, continue to pass yourself off as an expert on all military and geopolitical issues. It's quite entertaining.