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I thought I laid it out clearly: speed only works if you have a winning strategy.

Musk has shown this in the past many times. He never hits his timelines. It's his strategies (mostly in how he solves engineering challenges) that have led to his success. Which is why I'm not counting him out. But all the speed in the world ain't doing anything without an effective strategy. And it burns out staff that have other opportunities.

So far his Twitter strategy is a dud. All the speed in the world won't help a company that is alienating its main revenue stream. He knows that and has tried correcting course, but he can't help himself in being a tad messianic (vacillating from "free speech!" to "we're doing better at content moderation!"

Thanks. When you said you disagreed I thought you meant you disagreed with my post.

For sure there has to be a good strategy to go with speed. I think everyone understands speed by itself isn't useful.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
I can't really fathom why any of you would want to take either those circling the wagons or those kicked from the circle at their word right now. If I had to bet a child's life, I'd bet on both those groups lying. Why is always this need to defend/attack socially on these sorts of things. We will end up learning several months from now the truth is likely somewhere between these groups of dopes.
It's all speculation. None of us knows. But it's an interesting thought exercise nonetheless.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.
I agree. Brands, a lot of the Musk fanboys and other people doing it for politically adjacent reason but that isn’t a big number. It’s hard to kind of discuss the full parameters of what is going on without talking politics as I do think it’s part of the picture.
 
I'm sure he wishes he could. As you said, he was forced into the purchase. Back in March, plenty of folks (Elon included) reasonably though Twitter had a store of untapped value at $44B.
I do think it it's ironic though that as we all assume the platform is cratering they probably have more active daily users than they've ever had in Twitter's history.

I'll admit I have spent more time on Twitter in the past two days than I have in the past 2 years. It's fascinating.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.
And it sounds like the $8 blue check doesn’t even require verification, just a credit card, so that basically makes the blue check worthless.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.

I honestly keep thinking it will have the opposite effect. Let's say a powerful entity uses bots to sway public opinion in various directions. If there is nothing more to the new check than paying $8/month then what is stopping said entity from throwing a million bucks (annually) at it and setting up 10,000 blue check bot accounts that now automatically rise to the top of the algorithms via their subscription? I guess we will see further details but this new system is supposed to be rolled out on Monday and I could see things going south pretty quickly.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.

I honestly keep thinking it will have the opposite effect. Let's say a powerful entity uses bots to sway public opinion in various directions. If there is nothing more to the new check than paying $8/month then what is stopping said entity from throwing a million bucks (annually) at it and setting up 10,000 blue check bot accounts that now automatically rise to the top of the algorithms via their subscription? I guess we will see further details but this new system is supposed to be rolled out on Monday and I could see things going south pretty quickly.
And I have to think Musk knows this. Part of me thinks he is playing the Joker here and the goal is to turn Twitter into chaos.
 
And I have to think Musk knows this. Part of me thinks he is playing the Joker here and the goal is to turn Twitter into chaos.

He's been joked about as growing into a cartoon villain for a while now, so it is somewhat apropos.

In other news, this is absolutely intriguing. He's BSing with randos on Twitter about how to monetize video content. The. Richest. Man. In. The. World. Negotiating % of ad revenue for content creators with just random posters. Either I am watching the machinations of a flailing madman or the world's most brilliant business endeavor in the making. Time will tell I suppose. :popcorn:

 
He's been joked about as growing into a cartoon villain for a while now, so it is somewhat apropos.

In other news, this is absolutely intriguing. He's BSing with randos on Twitter about how to monetize video content. The. Richest. Man. In. The. World. Negotiating % of ad revenue for content creators with just random posters. Either I am watching the machinations of a flailing madman or the world's most brilliant business endeavor in the making. Time will tell I suppose. :popcorn:
So funny too because like an hour before that he asked Twitter how YouTube handles paying content creators. So he went from not knowing about the topic to saying they can pay better YouTube’s 55%. OK sure thing buddy.
 
He's been joked about as growing into a cartoon villain for a while now, so it is somewhat apropos.

In other news, this is absolutely intriguing. He's BSing with randos on Twitter about how to monetize video content. The. Richest. Man. In. The. World. Negotiating % of ad revenue for content creators with just random posters. Either I am watching the machinations of a flailing madman or the world's most brilliant business endeavor in the making. Time will tell I suppose. :popcorn:
So funny too because like an hour before that he asked Twitter how YouTube handles paying content creators. So he went from not knowing about the topic to saying they can pay better YouTube’s 55%. OK sure thing buddy.

I really think he's losing it, like maniacally losing it
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.

I honestly keep thinking it will have the opposite effect. Let's say a powerful entity uses bots to sway public opinion in various directions. If there is nothing more to the new check than paying $8/month then what is stopping said entity from throwing a million bucks (annually) at it and setting up 10,000 blue check bot accounts that now automatically rise to the top of the algorithms via their subscription? I guess we will see further details but this new system is supposed to be rolled out on Monday and I could see things going south pretty quickly.
A different way to look at it:

There are x number of current blue checks who will not want to pay $8 to keep their blue check. There are also x number of current non blue checks who will want to pay $8 to get a blue check.

Think people like Joe, small businesses in your community, entrepreneurs, content creators, up and coming entertainers, journalists, wanna be influencers. All people who did not pass Twitter's previous somewhat arbitrary requirements for a blue check.

Spending $100/yr to have a verified account, half the ads, ability to share video content, boost in search results, ability to edit tweets, plus whatever other perks they come up with down the road could be a solid value for someone who uses Twitter as part of their business or personal brand. The price is peanuts, and likely tax deductible for many.

As for bots, it is easy to set up a bot farm that operates thousands of accounts (China just got caught running 2000 bots to influence the 2022 midterms). Attaching a bank account to each bot account is not logistically possible, that fraud would be caught on the bank's end I assume. Attaching prepaid cards to each bot account to pay the $8 is probably possible for a small farm but no way China or Russia or whoever is taking the time and expense to manually setup prepaid cards and verified accounts for thousands of bots. And who knows what the actual Twitter Blue subscription process involves, I assume it requires a name, email, zip code same as premium subscriptions to Spotify, YouTube, LinkedIn. It would be easier for the evil doer to just create more bots.

It will be interesting to see what Musk does to combat bots though. Bots have infiltrated most platforms (like Instagram, YouTube, Twitter) and none of the companies seem to care, they just look the other way while they juice their numbers for ad dollars and bonuses.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.

I honestly keep thinking it will have the opposite effect. Let's say a powerful entity uses bots to sway public opinion in various directions. If there is nothing more to the new check than paying $8/month then what is stopping said entity from throwing a million bucks (annually) at it and setting up 10,000 blue check bot accounts that now automatically rise to the top of the algorithms via their subscription? I guess we will see further details but this new system is supposed to be rolled out on Monday and I could see things going south pretty quickly.
A different way to look at it:

There are x number of current blue checks who will not want to pay $8 to keep their blue check. There are also x number of current non blue checks who will want to pay $8 to get a blue check.

Think people like Joe, small businesses in your community, entrepreneurs, content creators, up and coming entertainers, journalists, wanna be influencers. All people who did not pass Twitter's previous somewhat arbitrary requirements for a blue check.

Spending $100/yr to have a verified account, half the ads, ability to share video content, boost in search results, ability to edit tweets, plus whatever other perks they come up with down the road could be a solid value for someone who uses Twitter as part of their business or personal brand. The price is peanuts, and likely tax deductible for many.

As for bots, it is easy to set up a bot farm that operates thousands of accounts (China just got caught running 2000 bots to influence the 2022 midterms). Attaching a bank account to each bot account is not logistically possible, that fraud would be caught on the bank's end I assume. Attaching prepaid cards to each bot account to pay the $8 is probably possible for a small farm but no way China or Russia or whoever is taking the time and expense to manually setup prepaid cards and verified accounts for thousands of bots. And who knows what the actual Twitter Blue subscription process involves, I assume it requires a name, email, zip code same as premium subscriptions to Spotify, YouTube, LinkedIn. It would be easier for the evil doer to just create more bots.

It will be interesting to see what Musk does to combat bots though. Bots have infiltrated most platforms (like Instagram, YouTube, Twitter) and none of the companies seem to care, they just look the other way while they juice their numbers for ad dollars and bonuses.
bot
 
He's been joked about as growing into a cartoon villain for a while now, so it is somewhat apropos.

In other news, this is absolutely intriguing. He's BSing with randos on Twitter about how to monetize video content. The. Richest. Man. In. The. World. Negotiating % of ad revenue for content creators with just random posters. Either I am watching the machinations of a flailing madman or the world's most brilliant business endeavor in the making. Time will tell I suppose. :popcorn:
So funny too because like an hour before that he asked Twitter how YouTube handles paying content creators. So he went from not knowing about the topic to saying they can pay better YouTube’s 55%. OK sure thing buddy.
Imagine the person who handles that sort of thing reading that on Twitter for the first time. Lol
 
I can't really fathom why any of you would want to take either those circling the wagons or those kicked from the circle at their word right now. If I had to bet a child's life, I'd bet on both those groups lying. Why is always this need to defend/attack socially on these sorts of things. We will end up learning several months from now the truth is likely somewhere between these groups of dopes.
It's all speculation. None of us knows. But it's an interesting thought exercise nonetheless.
speculation <> thought

And of course, none of this action from the subscriptions to the firing of people etc is going to do ANYTHING to help on the "biggest problem" he claims they have to address. A lot of you caught up in the spin zone and clickbait fodder IMO.
Sorry, I don't understand. Did you just suggest that speculation is lesser than thought? wtf?
Why interject yourself into a conversation to make a judgement on whether the topic is worthy of discussion. If you don't have an opinion, just stay out. You don't have to post about everything.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.
And it sounds like the $8 blue check doesn’t even require verification, just a credit card, so that basically makes the blue check worthless.
Exactly. There's confusion -- largely driven by Musk himself -- about what the $8/mo is for. Whatever they call it, it's not about blue checkmarks and verification. This is just a repurposed Twitter Blue (premium subscription service). Up until now, the checkmarks were a way of guaranteeing to users that the famous people were who they said they were. But under the new system, a blue checkmark is just one of the benefits that comes with a subscription, and as you say, it has nothing to do with verification.
 
I would love to see Twitter go the way of the FFA.

While the FFA had its place and time, it is long over.

Twitter needs a taste of this imo. At this point much more a power for crap than it is productive.
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...plans-for-twitter-clash-with-eu-content-rules

Interesting read. I wonder if Musk is willing to cut out 440 million European to maintain free speech absolutism. I don't think he is, but I'm just guessing.
It's almost like he hasn't thought any of this through...

As an aside: there was a search engine like ten years ago that instead of taking ads sold the top three or so rankings to people. You see these kinda of models every now and then and they always fail. Largely because it's a terrible user experience. Google conditioned people to expect quality search results. And the people who paid to rank on this new search engine were typically those that couldn't rank high organically. So users would search for something and get an irrelevant or poor result.

I forget the name, but I don't think it's still around.

I don't know the details, but that's kind of what's been floated for Twitter blue. People who pay get priority.

That's a bad user experience, depending on how much they weigh paid in the algorithm.
 
Valerie Bertinelie now tweeting as Elon Musk.

What a ********.
This thing, where people are posting as Elon for the lolz, is simply contributing to the things people complain about Twitter.

And while that might be the point, that point was made right away by thousands of people.

So media looking to make fun of Musk will collect various examples of these "funny" tweets, turn that into an article, and collect ad revenue off that, which Twitter gets none of.

And THAT is his real monetization problem, I would love to see that pointed out, rather than, look I'm Elon I drink my own pee haw haw.
 
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what confounds me in life is people’s ability to readily quote “amendment rights”, but not understand them or have even read them. i think this is ultimately musk’s play here. in today’s world there is no longer right or wrong, there is only them and us. musk is able to alienate half the population because he knows he’ll find another half just as anxious to join him. blindly. he is likely smart enough to know this, lord knows…..i am.
Whole bunch of truth to this. Perception is reality and holding to a stanard instead of a comparison to another flawed person is long gone
 
what confounds me in life is people’s ability to readily quote “amendment rights”, but not understand them or have even read them. i think this is ultimately musk’s play here. in today’s world there is no longer right or wrong, there is only them and us. musk is able to alienate half the population because he knows he’ll find another half just as anxious to join him. blindly. he is likely smart enough to know this, lord knows…..i am.
Whole bunch of truth to this. Perception is reality and holding to a stanard instead of a comparison to another flawed person is long gone
being respectful doesn’t get you noticed in our society anymore….boorish behavior is rewarded and therefore is becoming more of the norm. it has trickled into every walk of society. outrageousness sells and makes you money, so why not become a cartoon of oneself? if social media has done anything, it has further eroded common decency. this country are mostly sheep and willing to follow anything to be part of group. no other way to explain people giving up all privacy to post their lives on facebook. scream at politicians in restaurants, fight on airplanes, fight at ballparks, name call…..all gets you in the news in a good way. back in the 50s, it was all about the only bad press was no press, but that didn’t mean being a total doosh like it is nowadays.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.
$8 seems too high for most users, but way too low for people and businesses who make the most money from Twitter.

I don't see why Musk can't take the cybersquatter route and charge a price based on the perceived value of the username and user.
 
I'm really skeptical that people are actually going to pay $8/month for verification unless you work in an industry where you absolutely have to be verified to do your job (journalism). I get the argument about trying to cut down on bots, but if most of your normal users forgo verification, I don't see how this helps on the bot front. This seems like a much bigger risk business-wise than tweaking moderation policies.

I honestly keep thinking it will have the opposite effect. Let's say a powerful entity uses bots to sway public opinion in various directions. If there is nothing more to the new check than paying $8/month then what is stopping said entity from throwing a million bucks (annually) at it and setting up 10,000 blue check bot accounts that now automatically rise to the top of the algorithms via their subscription? I guess we will see further details but this new system is supposed to be rolled out on Monday and I could see things going south pretty quickly.
A different way to look at it:

There are x number of current blue checks who will not want to pay $8 to keep their blue check. There are also x number of current non blue checks who will want to pay $8 to get a blue check.

Think people like Joe, small businesses in your community, entrepreneurs, content creators, up and coming entertainers, journalists, wanna be influencers. All people who did not pass Twitter's previous somewhat arbitrary requirements for a blue check.

Spending $100/yr to have a verified account, half the ads, ability to share video content, boost in search results, ability to edit tweets, plus whatever other perks they come up with down the road could be a solid value for someone who uses Twitter as part of their business or personal brand. The price is peanuts, and likely tax deductible for many.

As for bots, it is easy to set up a bot farm that operates thousands of accounts (China just got caught running 2000 bots to influence the 2022 midterms). Attaching a bank account to each bot account is not logistically possible, that fraud would be caught on the bank's end I assume. Attaching prepaid cards to each bot account to pay the $8 is probably possible for a small farm but no way China or Russia or whoever is taking the time and expense to manually setup prepaid cards and verified accounts for thousands of bots. And who knows what the actual Twitter Blue subscription process involves, I assume it requires a name, email, zip code same as premium subscriptions to Spotify, YouTube, LinkedIn. It would be easier for the evil doer to just create more bots.

It will be interesting to see what Musk does to combat bots though. Bots have infiltrated most platforms (like Instagram, YouTube, Twitter) and none of the companies seem to care, they just look the other way while they juice their numbers for ad dollars and bonuses.

This.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but all the wokesters rushing to tear Elon down seem to keep missing the big picture.

The $8 isn't just for a blue checkmark and media accounts will still be marked as verified.

The same people are mocking Musk for buying a company with bad finances, then mocking him for doing things to improve finances (reducing staff, adding revenue streams). The outrage is a bit bizarre but admittedly entertaining from the sidelines. :lol:
 
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being respectful doesn’t get you noticed in our society anymore….boorish behavior is rewarded and therefore is becoming more of the norm. it has trickled into every walk of society. outrageousness sells and makes you money, so why not become a cartoon of oneself? if social media has done anything, it has further eroded common decency. this country are mostly sheep and willing to follow anything to be part of group. no other way to explain people giving up all privacy to post their lives on facebook. scream at politicians in restaurants, fight on airplanes, fight at ballparks, name call…..all gets you in the news in a good way. back in the 50s, it was all about the only bad press was no press, but that didn’t mean being a total doosh like it is nowadays.
And an economic system built on endless growth has fueled it. We need more channels, more shows, more websites, more bloggers, more content, more, more. The deeper down we expand, the closer we come to the bottom of the barrel.
 
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This.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but all the wokesters rushing to tear Elon down seem to keep missing the big picture. The $8 isn't just for a checkmark and media accounts will still be marked as verified.
Musk's messaging on this hasn't been super clear. He does explain the benefits but also tweets/approvingly replies to memes about how celebs/twitter elite are butthurt that they are no longer the checkmark elite. He is definitely trying to partly sell this as the check being status or a way to upend status.
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, but all the wokesters rushing to tear Elon down seem to keep missing the big picture.

The $8 isn't just for a blue checkmark and media accounts will still be marked as verified.

The same people are mocking Musk for buying a company with bad finances, then mocking him for doing things to improve finances (reducing staff, adding revenue streams). The outrage is a bit bizarre but admittedly entertaining from the sidelines. :lol:

It has been interesting to see much of the discussion online on this. It does seem there's a ton that's more about Musk than the actual stuff he's doing. I guess that's to be expected given how polarizing he is.
 
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The same people are mocking Musk for buying a company with bad finances, then mocking him for doing things to improve finances (reducing staff, adding revenue streams).
He's not getting mocked for buying a company with bad finances. Is that what you think?

To be clear, he took 13 billion in debt, added that to Twitter's balance sheet, then said the extra revenue stream was needed because Twitter was losing 4 million a day. His exact quote was, "We need to pay the bills somehow". Twitter was not a money maker, but it was not in trouble.

His stripping the company and trying to sell subscriptions are direct results of his historic overpay. Mocking both is not inconsistent.
 
The same people are mocking Musk for buying a company with bad finances, then mocking him for doing things to improve finances (reducing staff, adding revenue streams).
He's not getting mocked for buying a company with bad finances. Is that what you think?

To be clear, he took 13 billion in debt, added that to Twitter's balance sheet, then said the extra revenue stream was needed because Twitter was losing 4 million a day. His exact quote was, "We need to pay the bills somehow". Twitter was not a money maker, but it was not in trouble.

His stripping the company and trying to sell subscriptions are direct results of his historic overpay. Mocking both is not inconsistent.

I've seen quite a few folks mocking him on debt/revenue and other financial matters.... yes. I don't think that... I see it with my own two eyes.

And I disagree, I find it to be comically inconsistent and worthy of derision.

If you don't feel that way, that's cool... you're entitled to your opinions too :thumbup:
 
This.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but all the wokesters rushing to tear Elon down seem to keep missing the big picture. The $8 isn't just for a checkmark and media accounts will still be marked as verified.
Musk's messaging on this hasn't been super clear. He does explain the benefits but also tweets/approvingly replies to memes about how celebs/twitter elite are butthurt that they are no longer the checkmark elite. He is definitely trying to partly sell this as the check being status or a way to upend status.

Meh... Musk's online persona is pretty in line with Online Trolls. He's having some fun at others' expense. It's not your typical sterile CEO speak, but he's not your typical CEO. This isn't really new. Is it professional? Nope. Some folks can handle that, others get bent over it. I'm indifferent.

That doesn't really affect that he's alluded pretty openly that it's a suite of features as part of Twitter Blue, and that official media outlets will still be marked as such. The outrage by many celebs is pretty transparently being pissed their precious blue check is losing its exclusivity.
 
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but all the wokesters rushing to tear Elon down seem to keep missing the big picture.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the Musk-ovites who cheer the chaos and/or root for curtailed moderation.
 
One would have to be pretty low IQ to confuse someone with 500k followers and nothing but hysterical political rants in their twitter feed with Elon Musk.

I guess it fooled you?
Valerie Bertinelli, as Musk, was retweeting various left wing tweets, and that shows up in Twitter feeds as "Elon Musk retweeted".

Which is exactly what it looks like when Elon Musk retweets something.
 
His stripping the company and trying to sell subscriptions are direct results of his historic overpay. Mocking both is not inconsistent.
Especially when the people doing the mocking a month ago were saying, "he seems like he stepped in it and probably doesn't even want to buy Twitter, really" and the other side in this same discussion was saying "he has powers beyond your puny brained understanding, hahaha who are you to even question this supergenius titan of industry?!"

And then he tried to back out of the deal and the courts forced him to go through with it, with none of the relief he was seeking, and at the inflated price he initially agreed to.
 
Elon just tweeted that from now on anyone impersonating someone else without the words parody in their title will be permanently suspended with no warning. Makes sense but is kind of funny in light of his "Comedy is legal now on Twitter" tweet when he took over.

Obviously this in response to many users changing their name to Elon Musk and making fun of him.
 
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Elon just tweeted that from now on anyone impersonating someone else without the words parody in their title will be permanently suspended with no warning. Makes sense but is kind of funny in light of his "Comedy is legal now on Twitter" tweet when he took over.

I guess he's learning from his mistakes? Fair enough I suppose but just a really extremely odd situation from a business perspective. And I completely understand that my tiny workerbee brain can't possibly contemplate the 4d chess the entrepreneurial mastermind is playing so am happy to just sit back and watch the magic happen.

 
I guess he's learning from his mistakes?
I don't mean to look 6 seconds in his future or anything, but when you buy a verification with no......verification, then it gets more difficult to weed out the impersonators. Musk knows who's impersonating him, but what about all the other humans? 🙀
 
I know “speed” was discussed earlier in this thread but why is he in such a rush to make a million changes? This is Twitter. It’s a business that’s been around and heavily used. It’s not going away next week. I can understand wanting to make some changes right away but when you’re talking about such drastic changes like laying off 50% of the staff without doing a thorough evaluation of who should stay on, it’s doesn’t really make him look like that great of a leader or businessman, regardless of his past successes.
 
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