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UFC wagering: breaking news - judging is so terrible it got me to return here to update this thread title (8 Viewers)

Stopped watching the event & went to sleep right after that Jimmo fight. That was just brutal to watch. He should have just quit after the groin shot than to do absolutely nothing after it. Will watch rest of card this week.

 
Missed most of the card, but yeah, Oliveira/Lentz was awesome, and the second round of the main event was vintage Condit brutality, wow. Worth staying up to see that.

 
Abrantes said:
Missed most of the card, but yeah, Oliveira/Lentz was awesome, and the second round of the main event was vintage Condit brutality, wow. Worth staying up to see that.
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yup, Condit is a pleasure to watch. was interesting to see when the doctor was in Alves' corner that Alves' corner men told the doc he was fine and they didn't need him. Thankfully the doctor did not get intimidated and did his job.

 
modogg said:
Abrantes said:
Missed most of the card, but yeah, Oliveira/Lentz was awesome, and the second round of the main event was vintage Condit brutality, wow. Worth staying up to see that.
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yup, Condit is a pleasure to watch. was interesting to see when the doctor was in Alves' corner that Alves' corner men told the doc he was fine and they didn't need him. Thankfully the doctor did not get intimidated and did his job.
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Alves was having arguably one of his best performances to date, just took way too much damage. Long time Condit fan and you won't find a nicer person that enjoys violence as much he does. His striking accuracy has always been otherworldly, especially during scrambles or after a knockdown. He also has arguably the best fight IQ when it comes to throwing elbows. Takedown defense has always been his kryptonite even though he is still very dangerous on the ground. All that combined with elite cardio will always make him a factor in any match up.

Alves was a very tough test for a comeback fight. Condit recovering from a completely blown out knee against UFC's record holder for most leg kicks landing was a recipe for disaster and he passed with flying colors.

At 31 he's still in his athletic prime but I feel like attrition is going to become a factor sooner than later. I hope he gets a title shot against Lawler because I would heavily favor him in that match up. The rest of the top of that division will give him a lot of trouble stylistically, namely Hendricks and Woodley.

 
hooter311 said:
modogg said:
Abrantes said:
Missed most of the card, but yeah, Oliveira/Lentz was awesome, and the second round of the main event was vintage Condit brutality, wow. Worth staying up to see that.
Click to expand...
yup, Condit is a pleasure to watch. was interesting to see when the doctor was in Alves' corner that Alves' corner men told the doc he was fine and they didn't need him. Thankfully the doctor did not get intimidated and did his job.
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Alves was having arguably one of his best performances to date, just took way too much damage. Long time Condit fan and you won't find a nicer person that enjoys violence as much he does. His striking accuracy has always been otherworldly, especially during scrambles or after a knockdown. He also has arguably the best fight IQ when it comes to throwing elbows. Takedown defense has always been his kryptonite even though he is still very dangerous on the ground. All that combined with elite cardio will always make him a factor in any match up.

Alves was a very tough test for a comeback fight. Condit recovering from a completely blown out knee against UFC's record holder for most leg kicks landing was a recipe for disaster and he passed with flying colors.

At 31 he's still in his athletic prime but I feel like attrition is going to become a factor sooner than later. I hope he gets a title shot against Lawler because I would heavily favor him in that match up. The rest of the top of that division will give him a lot of trouble stylistically, namely Hendricks and Woodley.
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i thiought he won that fight against Hendricks, so Woodley is the one i hope he is able to avoid the most. a rematch with Rory would be fun too, as well as that Lawlor match-up

 
ATT loses again. Didn't even think that fight should have went to a third. Coy spent the whole 2nd round unsuccessfully trying for a takedown :lmao: Vincente landed the best shots that round.

Like the format, but this is just embarrassing for ATT. Not only have their guys lost, but they've looked terrible doing so.

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Looks like we're getting Rockhold/Weidman & Cormier/Gustaffson in the future. Thank you for not putting us through Cormier/Bader

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
ATT loses again. Didn't even think that fight should have went to a third. Coy spent the whole 2nd round unsuccessfully trying for a takedown :lmao: Vincente landed the best shots that round.

Like the format, but this is just embarrassing for ATT. Not only have their guys lost, but they've looked terrible doing so.

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Looks like we're getting Rockhold/Weidman & Cormier/Gustaffson in the future. Thank you for not putting us through Cormier/Bader
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DC dodging Bader again!! :mellow:

 
:boxing:

Bored enough to watch a Dan Henderson headlined card tonight. :wall: He really should have retired after landing that lucky shot against Rua (after being completely dominated to that point). Would have been a good high note to go out on. That win only gave him false hope. He's lost 5 of last 6 overall.

I really hope he retires win or lose tonight.

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Collier and Abreu on Fight Pass was an absolute war. No losers in that fight.
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hmm good to hear. despite the lackluster look of the card there will be a few fun fights. both HWY fights should be quick, and both Poirer and Bruce LeeRoy will have fun fights

 
Wow what another great fight and finish between Ortega & Tavares. Between this one and the Collier/Abreu, they both deserve fight of the nights.

 
i'll never understand all the Jesus love in MMA. So if both guys are devout Christians, does it mean Jesus likes one and not the other guy because someone has to lose? i just can't figure out how it works

 
modogg said:
i'll never understand all the Jesus love in MMA. So if both guys are devout Christians, does it mean Jesus likes one and not the other guy because someone has to lose? i just can't figure out how it works
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They haven't figured it out either.

 
Serious question, why is Tim Boetsch coming out 2nd? (Is there a reason behind why?) Just seems odd. Thought maybe he was a Louisiana guy or something, but he's not.

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
:lmao: Just wow. 22 seconds.

Would be a great way to go out :whistle: But he won't.
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i really wonder if they will put him against Anderson Silva if he can get away from the Nevada athletic commission. If not, then just put him against Jacare or Rockhold and let's just end this talk about Henderson being a potential force in the MW division

 
I really think Rothwell may be a little "special". If not, he's clearly a top 3 dummy in the spot.

Great card. tons of first round finishes. Brian Ortega/Tavaras was a FotY candidate.

 
Great card tonight. Coming on the heels of the solid Condit card it has been a nice couple of weeks.

Enjoyed these more the most of the recent PPVs.

Would be curious to hear who thinks another card has been better than this one in 2015 with respect to pure watchability. I don't think i got bored during any of the matches.

Absolutely loving the Rothwell Schtick. Not sure what the hell it is...but highly amused by it.

I loved the Ortega performance and thought that fight was one of the best of the year.

I am unsure of what to make by Poirier. Am I the only one that was kind of wondering how the hell he didn't knock his opponent out? I felt like on the surface it was incredibly impressive but I can't help but question if his power is "real" in the sense that he landed bomb after bomb and his opponent kept getting up/fighting back.

 
Fantastic card. That Ortega kid looks great; loved the work he did off his back. Any have the scores for that fight? Interested to see how the judges were scoring it. Tavares was controlling the position but he was talking a beating, constantly defending sub attempts and doing very little damage.

 
SIDA! said:
Would be curious to hear who thinks another card has been better than this one in 2015 with respect to pure watchability. I don't think i got bored during any of the matches.
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Both this card & the Cormier/Johnson cards were terrific. 2 of the better shows in recent memory.

Haven't watched the post-fight press conference yet from last night but they should be giving bonuses up and down that card. There's no way they should be limiting it to just a handful of guys. Ortega/Tavares & Collier/Abreu were 2 of the best fights I've seen all year.

 
SIDA! said:
I am unsure of what to make by Poirier. Am I the only one that was kind of wondering how the hell he didn't knock his opponent out? I felt like on the surface it was incredibly impressive but I can't help but question if his power is "real" in the sense that he landed bomb after bomb and his opponent kept getting up/fighting back.
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imo, it had way more to do with the sturdiness of Yancy's chin then the lack of power in Dustin's punches. With brain trauma, some people are able to go almost full zombie mode if the first strike doesn't completely shut the lights off. Good for winning fights, not good for conversations with your grandchildren years from now. The "button" that they refer to whether it be the chin, temple, or behind the ear bounces your brain from one part of the skull back into the other. For some fighters, Dan Henderson and Chris Leben are the first two that come to mind, that button can be incredibly hard to find.

 
I've met Rothwell. He is weird. He is awesome. Everybody in that community knows him and he gives a ton back. He was the kid in the back of the classroom wearing an anime button up shirt, laughing to himself about who knows what with a backpack full of WWF vhs tapes. But so what? I'm glad that kid found his place in life. To make money in this game you have to stand out. Some people seem to think self promotion goes against the tradition of the sport, but that is the way it has always been.

Stay weird Ben. In Wisconsin, few will notice.

Also that choke might not have looked like much, but it was deep. Matt's first takedown attempt in his professional career, now I know why they call him Meathead. Props to him for accepting defeat and not whining.

Give Stipe the next title shot and book Arlovski/Rothwell for the #1 Contender spot.

 
That card was a lot of fun. It's really weird how infectious some of these cards seem. Sometimes we have all good fights and other times they all kind of suck.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Fantastic card. That Ortega kid looks great; loved the work he did off his back. Any have the scores for that fight? Interested to see how the judges were scoring it. Tavares was controlling the position but he was talking a beating, constantly defending sub attempts and doing very little damage.
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Bump. Anyone see the scores of that fight?

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Fantastic card. That Ortega kid looks great; loved the work he did off his back. Any have the scores for that fight? Interested to see how the judges were scoring it. Tavares was controlling the position but he was talking a beating, constantly defending sub attempts and doing very little damage.
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Bump. Anyone see the scores of that fight?
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I have looked but been unable to find anything.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Fantastic card. That Ortega kid looks great; loved the work he did off his back. Any have the scores for that fight? Interested to see how the judges were scoring it. Tavares was controlling the position but he was talking a beating, constantly defending sub attempts and doing very little damage.
Click to expand...
I re-watched this fight last night.

When I watched it the first time, it seemed to me that Ortega was just destroying Tavares. When I saw Ortega's post fight interview where he intimated he was losing, I was like...huh? I think I was definitely blinded by the damage he inflicted on Tavares. The blood was just profusely pouring out onto the mat and onto Ortega.

Having re-watched it, I have kind of come to the conclusion that Tavares was scoring more points and landing more punches. Though I don't think his punches were as damaging as Ortega's elbows, obviously, I would think he was definitely "out pointing" Ortega. In addition to the volume of punches, Tavares was also taking Ortega down pretty easily.

Interesting scoring conundrum because coming out for the second and third rounds, Tavares was ####ed up. That second gash was long and wide...could have found China on the other end of that cute.

So, what should the scoring/judging philosophy be? I have never read any rule books on judging, but I think I am still pre-disposed to the idea that if two guys enter the ring and one comes out looked like he got ran through a meat grinder then he probably lost. I get that some dudes get marked up or cut easily, but I don't think that was the situation here. Ortega had razors on those elbows.

The fight was stopped with a minute to go. In the moment of first watching the fight I would have been incensed if Tavares won the decision. Now looking back, I think I would feel bad had it gone to decision and Tavares lost, too.

 
kutta said:
That card was a lot of fun. It's really weird how infectious some of these cards seem. Sometimes we have all good fights and other times they all kind of suck.
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Was reading something on reddit about how Jon Anik said they were using a smaller cage for this card. Some MMA dork has shown with a good sample size that smaller cages = more finishes.

 
SIDA! said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Fantastic card. That Ortega kid looks great; loved the work he did off his back. Any have the scores for that fight? Interested to see how the judges were scoring it. Tavares was controlling the position but he was talking a beating, constantly defending sub attempts and doing very little damage.
Click to expand...
I re-watched this fight last night.When I watched it the first time, it seemed to me that Ortega was just destroying Tavares. When I saw Ortega's post fight interview where he intimated he was losing, I was like...huh? I think I was definitely blinded by the damage he inflicted on Tavares. The blood was just profusely pouring out onto the mat and onto Ortega.

Having re-watched it, I have kind of come to the conclusion that Tavares was scoring more points and landing more punches. Though I don't think his punches were as damaging as Ortega's elbows, obviously, I would think he was definitely "out pointing" Ortega. In addition to the volume of punches, Tavares was also taking Ortega down pretty easily.

Interesting scoring conundrum because coming out for the second and third rounds, Tavares was ####ed up. That second gash was long and wide...could have found China on the other end of that cute.

So, what should the scoring/judging philosophy be? I have never read any rule books on judging, but I think I am still pre-disposed to the idea that if two guys enter the ring and one comes out looked like he got ran through a meat grinder then he probably lost. I get that some dudes get marked up or cut easily, but I don't think that was the situation here. Ortega had razors on those elbows.

The fight was stopped with a minute to go. In the moment of first watching the fight I would have been incensed if Tavares won the decision. Now looking back, I think I would feel bad had it gone to decision and Tavares lost, too.
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I've only watched it the once so I could be off.

Its like you say, what so the scoring be based on? Tavares definitely controlled the position but Ortega was more than happy to be in that position. Do we give Tavares a bump even though they were both good with the positioning? Clearly Ortega did more damage in said position. Tavares landed more strikes but they were weaker that what Ortega was throwing from his back. Ortega was actively looking to finish the fight with his sub attempts and elbows while Tavares seemed content playing the position/waiting game.

Tough fight to score :shrug: . After the 1st two rounds, I would say Ortega was winning the fight (not based on rounds but the fight as a whole).

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
kutta said:
That card was a lot of fun. It's really weird how infectious some of these cards seem. Sometimes we have all good fights and other times they all kind of suck.
Click to expand...
Was reading something on reddit about how Jon Anik said they were using a smaller cage for this card. Some MMA dork has shown with a good sample size that smaller cages = more finishes.
Click to expand...
yeah, I saw something about it too. I think it was 25' in diameter, and usually it is 32' or something. No idea why different states have different size cages, and I would think it would mess up fighting style, but if it does equal more exciting fights going to 25 foot might not be a bad thing. Don't know what Kaleb S. (forget his last name Starkes maybe?) would have done in his fight against Nate Quarry with a smaller cage

 
modogg said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
kutta said:
That card was a lot of fun. It's really weird how infectious some of these cards seem. Sometimes we have all good fights and other times they all kind of suck.
Click to expand...
Was reading something on reddit about how Jon Anik said they were using a smaller cage for this card. Some MMA dork has shown with a good sample size that smaller cages = more finishes.
Click to expand...
yeah, I saw something about it too. I think it was 25' in diameter, and usually it is 32' or something. No idea why different states have different size cages, and I would think it would mess up fighting style, but if it does equal more exciting fights going to 25 foot might not be a bad thing. Don't know what Kaleb S. (forget his last name Starkes maybe?) would have done in his fight against Nate Quarry with a smaller cage
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I thought all fight night cards used the small cage and Fox/PPV cards used the big cage.

 
Kaleb Starnes :lol:

I was just watching his season of Ultimate Fighter just the other day.

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Seems like common sense smaller cage = more finishes. No sure why someone would take the time to do such research.

 
modogg said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
kutta said:
That card was a lot of fun. It's really weird how infectious some of these cards seem. Sometimes we have all good fights and other times they all kind of suck.
Click to expand...
Was reading something on reddit about how Jon Anik said they were using a smaller cage for this card. Some MMA dork has shown with a good sample size that smaller cages = more finishes.
Click to expand...
yeah, I saw something about it too. I think it was 25' in diameter, and usually it is 32' or something. No idea why different states have different size cages, and I would think it would mess up fighting style, but if it does equal more exciting fights going to 25 foot might not be a bad thing. Don't know what Kaleb S. (forget his last name Starkes maybe?) would have done in his fight against Nate Quarry with a smaller cage
Click to expand...
In keeping with the original spirit of this thread, it seems like it would be a huge advantage to degenerate gamblers to know this info ahead of time, considering bets like O/U rounds.

 
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AhrnCityPahnder said:
modogg said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
kutta said:
That card was a lot of fun. It's really weird how infectious some of these cards seem. Sometimes we have all good fights and other times they all kind of suck.
Click to expand...
Was reading something on reddit about how Jon Anik said they were using a smaller cage for this card. Some MMA dork has shown with a good sample size that smaller cages = more finishes.
Click to expand...
yeah, I saw something about it too. I think it was 25' in diameter, and usually it is 32' or something. No idea why different states have different size cages, and I would think it would mess up fighting style, but if it does equal more exciting fights going to 25 foot might not be a bad thing. Don't know what Kaleb S. (forget his last name Starkes maybe?) would have done in his fight against Nate Quarry with a smaller cage
Click to expand...
In keeping with the original spirit of this thread, it seems like it would be a huge advantage to degenerate gamblers to know this info ahead of time, considering bets like O/U rounds.
Click to expand...
Yep...I remember hearing Anik say that during the broadcast and meant to ask about it.

 
100% certain that they used to use the smaller cage just for fight nights. Not sure if it changed at some point or not, I haven't paid much attention. Think back to Silva vs Leben for example, small cage.

 
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