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bostonfred

Who's better, Manning or Brady?

Who's the better quarterback?  

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We've done this before, but last time was in the middle of Manning's huge season. Does today's game change anything?

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Nothing has changed. Until Brady stops winning EVERY big game he plays in, and until Manning actually wins ONE big game, there is no discussion. Brady is better.

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Brady does have the better D by far, so that shouldn't be underestimated. That said, all he does is win big games. I vote Brady but it's probably more like a tie to me, they're both money.

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No one will convince me that if Peyton was on the Patriots he wouldn't be as successful as Brady. Peyton is the better quarterback, Brady is on one of the greatest teams of the last twenty years.Capice?

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No one will convince me that if Peyton was on the Patriots he wouldn't be as successful as Brady. Peyton is the better quarterback, Brady is on one of the greatest teams of the last twenty years.Capice?

Don't have to convince you. Don't deal in hypotheticals. Facts are facts, and Brady is the winningest quarterback of his generation. Manning is Marino. Brady is Montana. Which one of those guys do you think feels like he had the better career?

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You have to account the contracts for the players. Brady and his cheap contract against Manning and his mega-contract is an easy choice, Brady. For the past three years, I have grumbled when asked this question because I felt Manning was better. Brady is a little bit better, and unlike Manning, is on a much better team.

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It's still Manning for sure. Manning could do what Brady does with the Pats. Brady couldn't do what Manning does with the Colts.Although I will say this for Brady: he has closed the gap over the last couple years. I think he would put up some pretty gaudy numbers on a pass-happy team.

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No one will convince me that if Peyton was on the Patriots he wouldn't be as successful as Brady. Peyton is the better quarterback, Brady is on one of the greatest teams of the last twenty years.Capice?

I feel the same way about Marino if you stuck him on the 49ers instead of Montana during their glory years. But we'll never know...

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You have to account the contracts for the players. Brady and his cheap contract against Manning and his mega-contract is an easy choice, Brady. For the past three years, I have grumbled when asked this question because I felt Manning was better. Brady is a little bit better, and unlike Manning, is on a much better team.

I have to agree with you - money talks, BS walks. Until Brady gets a contract like Manning it's pretty clear that even his own team knows he's just a good QB who's in a great system.

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You have to account the contracts for the players. Brady and his cheap contract against Manning and his mega-contract is an easy choice, Brady. For the past three years, I have grumbled when asked this question because I felt Manning was better. Brady is a little bit better, and unlike Manning, is on a much better team.

I have to agree with you - money talks, BS walks. Until Brady gets a contract like Manning it's pretty clear that even his own team knows he's just a good QB who's in a great system.
Ahh, i see. Because he doesn't make the coin Manning does, he isn't as good and the rings mean nothing.

Tongue firmly planted in cheek....

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I'm always surprised when people say that Manning is putting up numbers on his own, but that Brady is benefitting from his team. Doesn't Manning throw all those TD passes to four different first round receivers, plus a couple of quality veterans?

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It's still Manning for sure. Manning could do what Brady does with the Pats. Brady couldn't do what Manning does with the Colts.

That's the biggest bunch of :bs: I've heard in a LOONG time! For crying out loud, if Scott Mitchell could do it what would make you think Tom Brady couldn't?

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Obviously Manning, anyone who argues otherwise is foolish. Give the Colts the Pats D and coach and the Colts would be the dominate force in the league. Manning just set the single season QB rating against a full schedule that was on par with the Pats. That said, Brady is a great QB and hopefully will string together enough solid seasons to get consideration in the the Hall.

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I just wanted to chime in on this discussion. Today shouldn't change anybody's oppinion. Brady did nothing special. Manning didn't play that badly. It was a game won by a dominate running game and a great defense. The defense held Manning and Co. in check in the first half. Then the offensive line and running backs for New England completely took that game over. The quarterbacks were pretty insignificant in this game. Unfortunately for the Colts, they can't win without their quarterback being significant.

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You have to account the contracts for the players. Brady and his cheap contract against Manning and his mega-contract is an easy choice, Brady. For the past three years, I have grumbled when asked this question because I felt Manning was better. Brady is a little bit better, and unlike Manning, is on a much better team.

I have to agree with you - money talks, BS walks. Until Brady gets a contract like Manning it's pretty clear that even his own team knows he's just a good QB who's in a great system.
Ahh, i see. Because he doesn't make the coin Manning does, he isn't as good and the rings mean nothing.

Tongue firmly planted in cheek....

I didn't say they meant nothing, but if you asked every GM in the NFL which QB they would want to build a team with none of them would say Brady.

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I'm a Pats fan, but ignoring salary, if I had to pick Manning or Brady to QB the Pats for the rest of their career I'd take Manning. If the NFL had a redraft of all players every year, Manning would be picked ahead of Brady.

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You have to account the contracts for the players. Brady and his cheap contract against Manning and his mega-contract is an easy choice, Brady. For the past three years, I have grumbled when asked this question because I felt Manning was better. Brady is a little bit better, and unlike Manning, is on a much better team.

I have to agree with you - money talks, BS walks. Until Brady gets a contract like Manning it's pretty clear that even his own team knows he's just a good QB who's in a great system.
Ahh, i see. Because he doesn't make the coin Manning does, he isn't as good and the rings mean nothing.

Tongue firmly planted in cheek....

if you asked every GM in the NFL which QB they would want to build a team with none of them would say Brady.
i think this statement would be the same as saying "i am completely clueless!!!"

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You have to account the contracts for the players. Brady and his cheap contract against Manning and his mega-contract is an easy choice, Brady. For the past three years, I have grumbled when asked this question because I felt Manning was better. Brady is a little bit better, and unlike Manning, is on a much better team.

I have to agree with you - money talks, BS walks. Until Brady gets a contract like Manning it's pretty clear that even his own team knows he's just a good QB who's in a great system.
Ahh, i see. Because he doesn't make the coin Manning does, he isn't as good and the rings mean nothing.

Tongue firmly planted in cheek....

I didn't say they meant nothing, but if you asked every GM in the NFL which QB they would want to build a team with none of them would say Brady.
And you know this how? I think NE would gladly start off with Brady over Manning. If I were a GM, I would too. All those flashy stats for Manning result in more cost to the GM (vs salary cap) and less wins compared to Brady.

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I will just stick with facts and not with what if...The fact is Brady has two super bowl rings, named super bowl MVP twice, two Pro Bowls, and has never lost a playoff game yet. Yes he is in a great system, but to me the QB is still the Captain, and he sure knows how to steer the Patriot Ship.I guess the Question is what makes a better QB: Statistics or wins? Maybe Manning could win the big game if he didn't play in a Dome so much! Manning is still a better Fantasy Football QB though! :DAnd about Manning and his big contract and more money....maybe he should start earing it by delivering a SB!!! :P

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Pats' LBs are 10 times better than the Colts' LBs. Maybe 50 times better. That is what was striking to me today. I'm null voting (meaning a tie).

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it is really unfortunate that so many are so blinded by homer glasses that they cant just sit back and enjoy what they are watching. tom brady is the best NFL qb in the league. manning is the best FFL qb in the league. he is the coolest, calmest qb i have EVER watched play the game (i am not saying he is the best ever, just the best i have seen). there is no gm in the game who would want any other active qb at the healm in the SB down by 6 with 90 seconds remaining. i am sorry if you disagree, you are just wrong. i didnt vote because i know this will come down to pats fans and true football fans voting for brady and everyone else voting for the stats guy.....

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We've done this before, but last time was in the middle of Manning's huge season. Does today's game change anything?

Nope.But, I sure would take Belichick and that defense (and Dillon) over Dungy, their defense and Edge.

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Is this still a question? What more does Brady have to do to show he is a winner and a better NFL QB? Win a 3rd Superbowl? Win a 3rd Superbowl MVP? Or both?

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maybe we shouls bump that poll that was putup right after Brady and the Pats lost to the Fins. That way a lot of people can remember which side if the bandwagon the are supposed to be on. :lol:

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It's still Manning for sure. Manning could do what Brady does with the Pats. Brady couldn't do what Manning does with the Colts.

I will take Tom Brady and the two Super Bowl wins.Tom Brady does play on the better overall team no debating that fact. Of course, he has never had a go to guy the caliber of Marvin Harrison and up until this season he never had much of a running game behind him either. As for saying that Manning would do just as well as Brady has if he were New Englands QB? I don't feel the Patriots offensive line pass blocks as well as what Manning is used to in Indianapolis. Not sure his game would translate well in New England as he would have to be more mobile in the pocket. As for Peyton Manning without a rushing attack, not sure how he would hold up as his game is predicated on play action and without a rushing attack you don't have play action. :brush:

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Manning's contract will continue to hinder Indy's ability to get defensive players. IMO, if he's truly the greatest quarterback in the game, he should take less money to help his team win a Super Bowl.

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If an NFL GM knew they would have a great defense with great coaches they would certainly take Brady IF they had to. But leave it to Pats fans to give Brady credit for every win when all he did today was not screw it up. Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

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Oh - it doesn't really matter what we say - if form keeps up, Brady will be considered the best QB of this generation, no question about it.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.

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Is this still a question? What more does Brady have to do to show he is a winner and a better NFL QB? Win a 3rd Superbowl? Win a 3rd Superbowl MVP? Or both?

As soon as you say that Dan Marino is not as good a QB as Dilfer, Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Marc Rypien, etc.

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Manning's contract will continue to hinder Indy's ability to get defensive players. IMO, if he's truly the greatest quarterback in the game, he should take less money to help his team win a Super Bowl.

It's not that simple. His cap number next year is very low, also (around 8 million). He has to restructure each time there is a year when his cap number is high - and I think he'll do that. The years after Manning is not a Colt will be cap-hell years.

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If an NFL GM knew they would have a great defense with great coaches they would certainly take Brady IF they had to. But leave it to Pats fans to give Brady credit for every win when all he did today was not screw it up. Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

I don't like the Dilfer analogy at all. Brady has NEVER lost a playoff game - he's been money the last three out of four regular seasons. Two time SB MVP. This guy is on a trajectory right now to be one of the best ever. No idea where he'll end up, but you can't deny how special this guy is RIGHT NOW.Troy Aikman feels more appropriate an analogy at the moment, and if Brady wins another SB this year, I feel Montana comparisons will merit serious consideration.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.

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If an NFL GM knew they would have a great defense with great coaches they would certainly take Brady IF they had to. But leave it to Pats fans to give Brady credit for every win when all he did today was not screw it up. Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

I don't like the Dilfer analogy at all. Brady has NEVER lost a playoff game - he's been money the last three out of four regular seasons. Two time SB MVP. This guy is on a trajectory right now to be one of the best ever. No idea where he'll end up, but you can't deny how special this guy is RIGHT NOW.Troy Aikman feels more appropriate an analogy at the moment, and if Brady wins another SB this year, I feel Montana comparisons will merit serious consideration.
:goodposting:the great qbs make their teammates better. id bet the gms around the league would rather have the colts wrs over the pats wrs, but brady makes his average wrs great....

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.
i dont remember mentioning marino in my post. please read my post again and get back to me.tia.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

In 2000, Dilfer had 11 INTs in 225 attempts. That's mistake-full football.By comparison, Banks threw 8 picks in 274 attempts with those same Ravens.The Ravens had the best defense ever. They had Jonathan Ogden blocking for Jamal Lewis who was backed up by Priest Holmes.They didn't need a QB to play mistake-free. Mistakes don't turn in to points against a defense like that. What they needed was a guy who could throw enough of a deep ball to keep the other team from playing 9 men in the box. That's all.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.
i dont remember mentioning marino in my post. please read my post again and get back to me.tia.
Nope, you didn't. But, using your logic, can you apply it consistently?I think prolly not.

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Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

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Manning's contract will continue to hinder Indy's ability to get defensive players. IMO, if he's truly the greatest quarterback in the game, he should take less money to help his team win a Super Bowl.

It's not that simple. His cap number next year is very low, also (around 8 million). He has to restructure each time there is a year when his cap number is high - and I think he'll do that. The years after Manning is not a Colt will be cap-hell years.
Interesting, I stand corrected. And actually I'm starting to think the problem isn't his own defense, but the ones he's played.
1999  ten  L  16-19  2000  mia  L  17-23  2002  nyj  L  0-41 2003  den  W  41-10  2003  kan  W  38-31  2003  nwe  L  14-24  2004  den  W  49-24   2004  nwe  L  3-20
10 ppg in the losses. Unless you're the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the best defense ever, you won't win putting up 10 points a game.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.
i dont remember mentioning marino in my post. please read my post again and get back to me.tia.
Nope, you didn't. But, using your logic, can you apply it consistently?I think prolly not.
Are you back to this straw man argument? Quarters are worth more than dollars. I can prove this because if I have ten quarters, that's worth more than two dollars. You can't prove to me that dollars are worth more than quarters unless they are ALWAYS better than quarters.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.
then based on what you are saying, Brady and Dilfer are better than Manning...Manning = 0 SBDilfer = 1 SBBrady = 2 SB (and heading for #3) :DAnd with all the Money that gets shelled out for Manning, Harrison, and Edge, it is no surprise they can't get the Defensive side of the ball stregthened. If you want to win a SB ring, you need to share the Salary Cap Wealth on both sides of the ball.

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I will just stick with facts and not with what if...

The fact is Brady has two super bowl rings, named super bowl MVP twice, two Pro Bowls, and has never lost a playoff game yet. Yes he is in a great system, but to me the QB is still the Captain, and he sure knows how to steer the Patriot Ship.

I guess the Question is what makes a better QB: Statistics or wins?

Maybe Manning could win the big game if he didn't play in a Dome so much! Manning is still a better Fantasy Football QB though! :D

And about Manning and his big contract and more money....maybe he should start earing it by delivering a SB!!! :P

Interesting.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.
then based on what you are saying, Brady and Dilfer are better than Manning...Manning = 0 SBDilfer = 1 SBBrady = 2 SB (and heading for #3) :D
No, but that's what you seem to be saying.

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Seriously, folks - quit with the Dilfer comparisons with Brady. It isn't close - that's like comparing a Fort Escort to a BMW.

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Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me. tia.
Dilfer's Stats = 1 SB. That's all that matters, right? Super Bowl wins.Marino's Stats = 0 SBs. Dilfer's better under your criterion.
i dont remember mentioning marino in my post. please read my post again and get back to me.tia.
Nope, you didn't. But, using your logic, can you apply it consistently?I think prolly not.
Are you back to this straw man argument? Quarters are worth more than dollars. I can prove this because if I have ten quarters, that's worth more than two dollars. You can't prove to me that dollars are worth more than quarters unless they are ALWAYS better than quarters.
Your 22 starters were better than the Colts 22 starters. I'm not sure what's so confusing about this.

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If an NFL GM knew they would have a great defense with great coaches they would certainly take Brady IF they had to. But leave it to Pats fans to give Brady credit for every win when all he did today was not screw it up. Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

I don't like the Dilfer analogy at all. Brady has NEVER lost a playoff game - he's been money the last three out of four regular seasons. Two time SB MVP. This guy is on a trajectory right now to be one of the best ever. No idea where he'll end up, but you can't deny how special this guy is RIGHT NOW.

Troy Aikman feels more appropriate an analogy at the moment, and if Brady wins another SB this year, I feel Montana comparisons will merit serious consideration.

I always think that's a misleading statistic. The Patriots missed the playoffs in 2002 because Brady got terribly outplayed by Chad Pennington in the second to last game of the season. If you ask me, that was a "playoff" game.

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A huge part of a QB's ability in the playoffs is their personality and leadership, which can translate to the whole team being confident and playing positively, or the team being tentative and playing negatively.If you believe your QB will find a way to win when it is on his shoulders (BRADY... BIG BEN?), you dont dwell on mistakes, you dont tighten up, you just continue to play your game no matter the score, because you know if you can get it in your guys hands late with a chance to win, he will do it. Brady is possibly the best in the history of the game (elway, favre, montana also deserve consideration) at instilling this kind of confidence in his team through performance. the effect snowballs with each win. On the other hand, if your QB has not "willed" your team to huge playoff victories(MANNING, KORDELL), you're more likely to lose. if a team has a history of losing big playoff games with a certain QB at the helm, mistakes get magnified, players get tighter and have more emotional ups and downs, and that effect snowballs...the team takes on the personality of the QB and the coach in the playoffs. Brady/Belicheck/NE = cool, confident, executes perfectly, if unspectacularlyRoethlisberger/Cowher/PIT = verdict is still out for ben, luck played a huge role, or Ben could be in danger of the early "choker" label, despite the mistakes, he has a game tying 4th quarter drive and an overtime game winning drive under his belt, to add his comebacks in the regular season. the team still believes in him, and is very confident. does have the look of an early brady. Cowher's have never won a super bowl, always choking at the worst possible time - we will see if last week's game reverses that.Manning/Dungy/IND = unstoppable when comfortable, but flustered by nemesis teams/coaches, and can get discouraged when things arent going well. confidence questionable. McNabb/Reid/PHI = loose to a fault. against weaker teams, can turn it on and off at will. against tough defenses, can have trouble finding a groove. makes inexplicable mistake and amazing individual plays. possibly too confident, blunting focus. Not the best game plan adjusters.Vick/Mora/ATL = verdict still out, in a lot of ways next weeks game will begin to really solidify his playoff personality - is he a manning, great against weaker opponents, but can not will his team to a win against equal or better opponents, or a brady, ready to take the team on his back at any time, making them more confident. Mora obviously had them ready to play on Saturday, but the true test is next sunday...

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Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

Manning has never scored more than 17 points OR thrown for more than 1 TD and lost a playoff game.Translation: It's not the defense that's hurting him. He's not losing playoff games 35-34.

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