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Who's better, Manning or Brady?

Who's the better quarterback?  

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One point of comparison is that when Brady went down, Matt Cassel led the team to 11-5

When Manning went down, they went from contender to 1-15 worst team in the NFL

conversely, when manning took over a 3-13 team, he led them to a 3-13 record the following year. When Brady took over a 5-11 team, he led them to an 11-3 record the rest of the way and won a superbowl.

Manning was a rookie thrown to the wolves on a bad team. Brady settled into a team that forced 41 turnovers during his starts and only had to throw for 300 yards 1 time. He was under 200 yards 10 times that year. The Patriots were led by a great defense.
you're welcome to call them a great defense but they were a 5-13 team without Brady and a 14-3 championship team with him.

If you want to use turnovers as the reason they won them the fact that Brady threw 12 picks and manning threw 28 ought to be brought up.

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Manning was asked to throw a ton, that's a big reason he threw a ton of INT as a rookie. He hasn't come close to that number since and has had huge usage numbers.

Ignoring the defense that NE had in 2001 is ridiculous. How often are you going to win the Super Bowl throwing for only 145 yards? During their last 8 wins including the playoffs, NE never allowed more than 17 points in any game and they forced 23 turnovers. Brady threw for 3 TD and 6 INT during that stretch. I mean he threw for 1 TD in 3 total playoff games. Just admit he rode the defense to that title.

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Manning was asked to throw a ton, that's a big reason he threw a ton of INT as a rookie.

So he threw a lot and wasn't good at it. Who was he throwing to, by the way? Any hall of famers? Just marshall faulk and Marvin Harrison?

I mean he threw for 1 TD in 3 total playoff games. Just admit he rode the defense to that title.

He ran for a td in the Raiders game and got hurt in the steelers game. He led a game winning field goal drove in the superbowl that most coaches wouldn't even have let him try. But yes, like you said with manning, he did what was asked of him, he had an 18 to 12 td/int ratio, he played conservative ball with significantly below average receivers and turned troy brown into a 100 catch receiver overnight.

And he undisputedly turned a 5 win team into a superbowl champ, while manning undisputedly turned a 3 win team into a 3 win team.

If you don't like that, of course, you can dispense with the nonsense about the patriots being an 11 win team without Brady and the Colts being a 2 win team without manning. I'm fine either way. You just don't get to say both. It's logically inconsistent.

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I never said any of that stuff about how many wins they had with/without them. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I did say Matt Cassel is garbage, and I'm not altering my stance on that.

If your argument against Manning is that he had a bad rookie year and his team didn't improve, that's a pretty thin argument considering his teams have gone 170-62 since then and made the playoffs 13 times going on 14 this year.

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Manning was asked to throw a ton, that's a big reason he threw a ton of INT as a rookie. He hasn't come close to that number since and has had huge usage numbers.

Ignoring the defense that NE had in 2001 is ridiculous. How often are you going to win the Super Bowl throwing for only 145 yards? During their last 8 wins including the playoffs, NE never allowed more than 17 points in any game and they forced 23 turnovers. Brady threw for 3 TD and 6 INT during that stretch. I mean he threw for 1 TD in 3 total playoff games. Just admit he rode the defense to that title.

Again, you can say the same about Manning's title. 3 TDs to 7 INTs, I am pretty sure that he is the only SB winning QB that threw twice as many INTs in his playoff run than TDs. 47% of the Colts' points were scored by the kicker vs. 40% for Brady in 2001. If there is a guy that can be argued was carried to his title based on the D and K it was Manning - not Brady.

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Ignoring the defense that NE had in 2001 is ridiculous. How often are you going to win the Super Bowl throwing for only 145 yards? During their last 8 wins including the playoffs, NE never allowed more than 17 points in any game and they forced 23 turnovers. Brady threw for 3 TD and 6 INT during that stretch. I mean he threw for 1 TD in 3 total playoff games. Just admit he rode the defense to that title.

Brady was in his first year as a starter. In Manning's Superbowl season - his 8th(?) as a starter - he threw 3 TDs in 4 playoff games, along with 7 picks. He had one game where he threw for 170 yards and 2 picks, and his team did not score a singleTD, but they still won. Luckily his defense generated 13 turnovers of their own during the 4 playoff games - 3.25 per game for those keeping score at home. They also held opponents to 16.25 ppg and 239 ypg compared to the 15.7 ppg and 321 ypg for Brady in 01.

It' may be fair to say Brady rode his D to that title, but certainly no moreso than Manning did for his title.

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Guest General Tso

In the age of the fantasy world, too many just look at the raw stats. Manning had some good stats yesterday...but the scoreboard is what matters.

Both great QB's, but Brady has the intangibles that sets him apart. Switch QBs yesterday with Brady Qbing Denver, any doubt who wins the game?

not a doubt in my mind that the QB playing for Belichick in Foxboro wins yesterdays game.

Look BB is great hc, but his defs have not been dominant for a long, long time.

I am not saying if you switch qbs the broncos would have definitely won, but I don't understand the slam dunk mentality that its all BB and the qb doesn't matter. Its so dismissive of brady's strengths while overlooking mannings weakness's.

When you have pristine conditions, manning is as good or better than anyone at throwing the ball; however, when things aren't pristine he isn't as good or better than everyone else.

Manning doesn't play as well on the road (most don't) and he doesn't play as well outside in the elements, particularly when it is cold, windy etc. Now with his age and neck injury he doesn't (imho) have the same arm strength he used to have. Time will tell, but I think going forward if you put a decent defense in front of him with those weather conditions you can expect similar results.

On the other side of the line, BB didn't carve up dens defense it was brady again playing well in the elements. Wasn't Dens defense considered to be better than NEs going into the game?

There are lots of little things like playing well outdoors, qb sneaking for key 1st downs (90 out of 95) etc, etc that don't show up in the "passing stats" but are big parts of why brady and NE just continue to win and win. So many don't see him game in and game out and don't realize\appreciate the little things he does that don't show up in the box score.

People can slide the blame\credit to BB, but the truth is there are things Brady does better than Manning and playing outdoors in bad weather is one of them.

the whole "not play well in the cold" is overdone. The fact of the matter is for most of Mannings career, playing outdoors is a surrogate for "on the road" and in the cold is a surrogate for "on the road in the playoffs".

Mannings arm, by all reports, is actually stronger this year than it ever has been. This past off-season is the first time that Manning has ever gone in and lifted weights. he is fully recovered from the neck thing, and all of the rehab got him to a point where he is stronger than he was previously. It's all in the training camp chatter.

Broncos didn't lose this game because Manning struggles in the cold, or in Foxboro, or any of the simple narratives that places like bleacherreport like to push.

I firmly believe NE won because they were a better prepared team. Their defense was more physical, they disguised their defenses better, they created a lot of chaos, they stopped the run, and they did a fantastic job of pressuring Manning up the middle. Denver defense, on the other hand, left giant cushions for the WR's, they gave Gronk a free release for most of the game, they failed to collapse the pocket, and they did not do a good job of adapting.

Please don't misconstrue any of this as criticism of Brady. Bronco pass rush was actually pretty good and they got Brady throwing the ball before he was ready all game; Brady did a fantastic job of getting the ball out on time and finding the open man.

The difference in the game is that the NE defense played better than the Broncos offense, and the NE offense played better than the Bronco defense. It's more than Manning vs Brady. I don't think Manning played terribly - he could have done better, obviously, but he was under durress all game, throwing to WR's who couldn't get open and handing off to a running back going nowhere. If you want to find blame with Manning for this game, that's fine. one int was cearly his fault, the other, well, when you hit your WR in the chest, not sure you can really pin that on Manning.

I agree with most of this except for the assertion that Manning played under duress the whole game. He was threw the ball 57 times and was only touched once. Brady on the other hand was touched 8 times, which is still pretty good protection.

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In the age of the fantasy world, too many just look at the raw stats. Manning had some good stats yesterday...but the scoreboard is what matters.

Both great QB's, but Brady has the intangibles that sets him apart. Switch QBs yesterday with Brady Qbing Denver, any doubt who wins the game?

not a doubt in my mind that the QB playing for Belichick in Foxboro wins yesterdays game.

Look BB is great hc, but his defs have not been dominant for a long, long time.

I am not saying if you switch qbs the broncos would have definitely won, but I don't understand the slam dunk mentality that its all BB and the qb doesn't matter. Its so dismissive of brady's strengths while overlooking mannings weakness's.

When you have pristine conditions, manning is as good or better than anyone at throwing the ball; however, when things aren't pristine he isn't as good or better than everyone else.

Manning doesn't play as well on the road (most don't) and he doesn't play as well outside in the elements, particularly when it is cold, windy etc. Now with his age and neck injury he doesn't (imho) have the same arm strength he used to have. Time will tell, but I think going forward if you put a decent defense in front of him with those weather conditions you can expect similar results.

On the other side of the line, BB didn't carve up dens defense it was brady again playing well in the elements. Wasn't Dens defense considered to be better than NEs going into the game?

There are lots of little things like playing well outdoors, qb sneaking for key 1st downs (90 out of 95) etc, etc that don't show up in the "passing stats" but are big parts of why brady and NE just continue to win and win. So many don't see him game in and game out and don't realize\appreciate the little things he does that don't show up in the box score.

People can slide the blame\credit to BB, but the truth is there are things Brady does better than Manning and playing outdoors in bad weather is one of them.

the whole "not play well in the cold" is overdone. The fact of the matter is for most of Mannings career, playing outdoors is a surrogate for "on the road" and in the cold is a surrogate for "on the road in the playoffs".

Mannings arm, by all reports, is actually stronger this year than it ever has been. This past off-season is the first time that Manning has ever gone in and lifted weights. he is fully recovered from the neck thing, and all of the rehab got him to a point where he is stronger than he was previously. It's all in the training camp chatter.

Broncos didn't lose this game because Manning struggles in the cold, or in Foxboro, or any of the simple narratives that places like bleacherreport like to push.

I firmly believe NE won because they were a better prepared team. Their defense was more physical, they disguised their defenses better, they created a lot of chaos, they stopped the run, and they did a fantastic job of pressuring Manning up the middle. Denver defense, on the other hand, left giant cushions for the WR's, they gave Gronk a free release for most of the game, they failed to collapse the pocket, and they did not do a good job of adapting.

Please don't misconstrue any of this as criticism of Brady. Bronco pass rush was actually pretty good and they got Brady throwing the ball before he was ready all game; Brady did a fantastic job of getting the ball out on time and finding the open man.

The difference in the game is that the NE defense played better than the Broncos offense, and the NE offense played better than the Bronco defense. It's more than Manning vs Brady. I don't think Manning played terribly - he could have done better, obviously, but he was under durress all game, throwing to WR's who couldn't get open and handing off to a running back going nowhere. If you want to find blame with Manning for this game, that's fine. one int was cearly his fault, the other, well, when you hit your WR in the chest, not sure you can really pin that on Manning.

You don't honestly believe this, do you? His arm has never been great, but it has been obviously weaker post operation(s).

And what's this about never lifting weights?

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In the age of the fantasy world, too many just look at the raw stats. Manning had some good stats yesterday...but the scoreboard is what matters.

Both great QB's, but Brady has the intangibles that sets him apart. Switch QBs yesterday with Brady Qbing Denver, any doubt who wins the game?

not a doubt in my mind that the QB playing for Belichick in Foxboro wins yesterdays game.

Look BB is great hc, but his defs have not been dominant for a long, long time.

I am not saying if you switch qbs the broncos would have definitely won, but I don't understand the slam dunk mentality that its all BB and the qb doesn't matter. Its so dismissive of brady's strengths while overlooking mannings weakness's.

When you have pristine conditions, manning is as good or better than anyone at throwing the ball; however, when things aren't pristine he isn't as good or better than everyone else.

Manning doesn't play as well on the road (most don't) and he doesn't play as well outside in the elements, particularly when it is cold, windy etc. Now with his age and neck injury he doesn't (imho) have the same arm strength he used to have. Time will tell, but I think going forward if you put a decent defense in front of him with those weather conditions you can expect similar results.

On the other side of the line, BB didn't carve up dens defense it was brady again playing well in the elements. Wasn't Dens defense considered to be better than NEs going into the game?

There are lots of little things like playing well outdoors, qb sneaking for key 1st downs (90 out of 95) etc, etc that don't show up in the "passing stats" but are big parts of why brady and NE just continue to win and win. So many don't see him game in and game out and don't realize\appreciate the little things he does that don't show up in the box score.

People can slide the blame\credit to BB, but the truth is there are things Brady does better than Manning and playing outdoors in bad weather is one of them.

the whole "not play well in the cold" is overdone. The fact of the matter is for most of Mannings career, playing outdoors is a surrogate for "on the road" and in the cold is a surrogate for "on the road in the playoffs".

Mannings arm, by all reports, is actually stronger this year than it ever has been. This past off-season is the first time that Manning has ever gone in and lifted weights. he is fully recovered from the neck thing, and all of the rehab got him to a point where he is stronger than he was previously. It's all in the training camp chatter.

Broncos didn't lose this game because Manning struggles in the cold, or in Foxboro, or any of the simple narratives that places like bleacherreport like to push.

I firmly believe NE won because they were a better prepared team. Their defense was more physical, they disguised their defenses better, they created a lot of chaos, they stopped the run, and they did a fantastic job of pressuring Manning up the middle. Denver defense, on the other hand, left giant cushions for the WR's, they gave Gronk a free release for most of the game, they failed to collapse the pocket, and they did not do a good job of adapting.

Please don't misconstrue any of this as criticism of Brady. Bronco pass rush was actually pretty good and they got Brady throwing the ball before he was ready all game; Brady did a fantastic job of getting the ball out on time and finding the open man.

The difference in the game is that the NE defense played better than the Broncos offense, and the NE offense played better than the Bronco defense. It's more than Manning vs Brady. I don't think Manning played terribly - he could have done better, obviously, but he was under durress all game, throwing to WR's who couldn't get open and handing off to a running back going nowhere. If you want to find blame with Manning for this game, that's fine. one int was cearly his fault, the other, well, when you hit your WR in the chest, not sure you can really pin that on Manning.

You don't honestly believe this, do you? His arm has never been great, but it has been obviously weaker post operation(s).

And what's this about never lifting weights?

that's what I remeber reading in August, but can't find a link.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Manning has actually been pretty lucky as far as weather goes in Denver.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Manning has actually been pretty lucky as far as weather goes in Denver.

lol ... insufferable. Probably a meteorological stat out there that shows wind and frozen precipitation rates always increased when Brady had the ball

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

Id imagine its the altitude.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25

Wow. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about AT ALL. Someone from Denver should actually chime in, because the fact that you think Denver is colder than Boston is absolutely hilarious. You obviously didn't do enough research on Google. Due to the altitude Denver has very mild winters, with an average winter temperature of 45 degrees, and it's not uncommon for it to hit 60. Denver gets more annual hours of sun than Miami and San Diego. It's a totally different climate than Boston. Snow doesn't even stay on the ground for long in Denver because of the climate. Get your facts straight first before you try making a point. Boston and New England in general have much colder winters than Denver.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25

Wow. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about AT ALL. Someone from Denver should actually chime in, because the fact that you think Denver is colder than Boston is absolutely hilarious. You obviously didn't do enough research on Google. Due to the altitude Denver has very mild winters, with an average winter temperature of 45 degrees, and it's not uncommon for it to hit 60. Denver gets more annual hours of sun than Miami and San Diego. It's a totally different climate than Boston. Snow doesn't even stay on the ground for long in Denver because of the climate. Get your facts straight first before you try making a point. Boston and New England in general have much colder winters than Denver.

My guess is you are 12 y/o old and don't travel much :) --ok I lose. Brady wins, and Boston fans win even with the wickedest weather on the planet.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold
Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25

Wow. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about AT ALL. Someone from Denver should actually chime in, because the fact that you think Denver is colder than Boston is absolutely hilarious. You obviously didn't do enough research on Google. Due to the altitude Denver has very mild winters, with an average winter temperature of 45 degrees, and it's not uncommon for it to hit 60. Denver gets more annual hours of sun than Miami and San Diego. It's a totally different climate than Boston. Snow doesn't even stay on the ground for long in Denver because of the climate. Get your facts straight first before you try making a point. Boston and New England in general have much colder winters than Denver.

My guess is you are 12 y/o old and don't travel much :) --ok I lose. Brady wins, and Boston fans win even with the wickedest weather on the planet.

Someone's a little salty huh? ;)

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25
it's a good thing they don't play football at 5AM (when you see daily lows). Now compare average high temps.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Manning has actually been pretty lucky as far as weather goes in Denver.

lol ... insufferable. Probably a meteorological stat out there that shows wind and frozen precipitation rates always increased when Brady had the ball

I live in Denver. Manning has played in very few bad weather games here. In fact, I would guess the number is 3 or less. By bad weather I mean 15+ MPH winds or sub 30 degrees with precipitation or sub 15 degree with wind chill. The vast majority of his games in Denver have had very mild conditions.

In Denver, it is almost always sunny. So even if it is cold, it doesn't often feel as cold due to the sun and high altitude. You need wind or rain/snow/overcast conditions to really feel that cold.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Manning has actually been pretty lucky as far as weather goes in Denver.

lol ... insufferable. Probably a meteorological stat out there that shows wind and frozen precipitation rates always increased when Brady had the ball

I live in Denver. Manning has played in very few bad weather games here. In fact, I would guess the number is 3 or less. By bad weather I mean 15+ MPH winds or sub 30 degrees with precipitation or sub 15 degree with wind chill. The vast majority of his games in Denver have had very mild conditions.

In Denver, it is almost always sunny. So even if it is cold, it doesn't often feel as cold due to the sun and high altitude. You need wind or rain/snow/overcast conditions to really feel that cold.

wow. so its actually NICER and WAY easier on Manning in Denver than it was indoors!

So, what about something more important ? like Chowda. I hear Manning's go to is Manhattan Clam. I tend to agree. Its clearly better than the NE variety.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Manning has actually been pretty lucky as far as weather goes in Denver.

lol ... insufferable. Probably a meteorological stat out there that shows wind and frozen precipitation rates always increased when Brady had the ball

I live in Denver. Manning has played in very few bad weather games here. In fact, I would guess the number is 3 or less. By bad weather I mean 15+ MPH winds or sub 30 degrees with precipitation or sub 15 degree with wind chill. The vast majority of his games in Denver have had very mild conditions.

In Denver, it is almost always sunny. So even if it is cold, it doesn't often feel as cold due to the sun and high altitude. You need wind or rain/snow/overcast conditions to really feel that cold.

wow. so its actually NICER and WAY easier on Manning in Denver than it was indoors!

So, what about something more important ? like Chowda. I hear Manning's go to is Manhattan Clam. I tend to agree. Its clearly better than the NE variety.

No, it's not nicer than the dome he played 12 ( 13? ) years in. However, looking at the game logs, he's played exactly 2 games under 30 degrees at home since moving to Denver, one in 2012 and one in 2013. He's also played 2 games in Dec/Jan at home that were over 60 degrees.

Lets just say that Manning hasn't played a significant portion of home games in difficult weather conditions over his 14+ seasons. Is that a fair statement? Could we even go so far as to say Brady has played in significantly more bad weather home games than Manning over their respective careers?

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I disagree that quarterbacks make the receivers.

How would you explain Schroeder and FBOC then? Those two are the first that jump to the forefront for me in this debate.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold
Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25

Wow. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about AT ALL. Someone from Denver should actually chime in, because the fact that you think Denver is colder than Boston is absolutely hilarious. You obviously didn't do enough research on Google. Due to the altitude Denver has very mild winters, with an average winter temperature of 45 degrees, and it's not uncommon for it to hit 60. Denver gets more annual hours of sun than Miami and San Diego. It's a totally different climate than Boston. Snow doesn't even stay on the ground for long in Denver because of the climate. Get your facts straight first before you try making a point. Boston and New England in general have much colder winters than Denver.

My guess is you are 12 y/o old and don't travel much :) --ok I lose. Brady wins, and Boston fans win even with the wickedest weather on the planet.

You may want to extend an apology. Not only are you way wrong but then you played the 12 yo card on top of it.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25
it's a good thing they don't play football at 5AM (when you see daily lows). Now compare average high temps.

Ya who compares average lows?

DEC->FEB

Denver - 46,47,49

Boston - 41,36,39

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25
it's a good thing they don't play football at 5AM (when you see daily lows). Now compare average high temps.

Ya who compares average lows?

DEC->FEB

Denver - 46,47,49

Boston - 41,36,39

Ya, but why compare highs either? :deadhorse:

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25
it's a good thing they don't play football at 5AM (when you see daily lows). Now compare average high temps.

Ya who compares average lows?

DEC->FEB

Denver - 46,47,49

Boston - 41,36,39

Ya, but why compare highs either? :deadhorse:

which temperature do think is closer to game time temps? The high, which generally registers in mid afternoon, or the low, which generally registers in the early AM hours?

Answer that, and I bet you can answer your own.

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25
it's a good thing they don't play football at 5AM (when you see daily lows). Now compare average high temps.

Ya who compares average lows?

DEC->FEB

Denver - 46,47,49

Boston - 41,36,39

Ya, but why compare highs either? :deadhorse:

which temperature do think is closer to game time temps? The high, which generally registers in mid afternoon, or the low, which generally registers in the early AM hours?

:cool:

Answer that, and I bet you can answer your own.

In general that is correct, but average takes into account the whole day and Denver, being intercontinental sees drastic changes in weather faster than say Boston which is more maritime. So, given that, Manning, even in the middle of the day, likely has to deal with faster changes in weather and temperature than Mr. Tom Brady. So clearly, Manning is the better quarterback :cool:

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25
it's a good thing they don't play football at 5AM (when you see daily lows). Now compare average high temps.

Ya who compares average lows?

DEC->FEB

Denver - 46,47,49

Boston - 41,36,39

Ya, but why compare highs either? :deadhorse:

which temperature do think is closer to game time temps? The high, which generally registers in mid afternoon, or the low, which generally registers in the early AM hours?

:cool:

Answer that, and I bet you can answer your own.

In general that is correct, but average takes into account the whole day and Denver, being intercontinental sees drastic changes in weather faster than say Boston which is more maritime. So, given that, Manning, even in the middle of the day, likely has to deal with faster changes in weather and temperature than Mr. Tom Brady. So clearly, Manning is the better quarterback :cool:

I live in Denver - you are wrong.

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you should get out more:)

wait --about Manning being better or the weather? they are both equally important.

Edited by JIslander

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I live in Denver - you are wrong.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

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I get that this conversation will never go away, but why do we really need to even have it? It's like asking wheter you would rather have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini when everyone else is driving a Prius.

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I get that this conversation will never go away, but why do we really need to even have it? It's like asking wheter you would rather have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini when everyone else is driving a Prius.

Yeah, but the Ferrari can't handle the NE weather, man! :lmao:;)

:goodposting:

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I'm sure its been said here but thread is long -- and then they'll be arguments the weather has to be New England "wicked" cold to count, but didn't Manning win his SB in the rain?

Being rainy in Miami in February is a hell of a lot different than playing in the cold and snow in New England over the winter. No one ever said he can't win in the rain either, it's the cold that he can't get it done in.

yeah --I guess Denver never gets cold

Why does everyone assume Denver is really cold? It's not. Other places in Colorado yeah, but Denver is actually pretty mild compared to New England.

google's your friend --Avg low in Denver for Dec. -> Feb is 16, 16, 18 degrees -- Boston 28, 22, 25

I grew up in Maine and currently live in Denver. They are not even close. Winter here is pretty nice, winter there is brutal. Denver is a much better place to live just looking at weather (and honestly everything else).

The lows are low in Denver, but look at the highs we have a big swing as it gets dark. A night game can be pretty damn cold out here. A 11AM game or 2PM game for the most part isn't going to be too cold. There are definitely cold days, but most days in the winter we'll get up to 40 or 50 and sunny with no real humidity.

I moved here in '06, I went to Cutler's first start (against Seattle) that was freezing cold. I'm sure Peyton has had some very cold games by now too. But I'd say nothing compared to what Brady has played in during the same period.

I'd guess about half of the Pats games are pretty cold and uncomfortable. More like 1/4 of the Broncos. (talking about home games).

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I get that this conversation will never go away, but why do we really need to even have it? It's like asking wheter you would rather have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini when everyone else is driving a Prius.

Of course we have to have it, it's a great sports topic, they both continue to win and it is perpetually timely since they play each other every year. Nothing can be settled until they are done playing and if one doesn't win another title or 2 it probably won't ever be "settled". Nothing wrong with that, it's all good, take a position and put up your dukes :boxing: or sit back and enjoy or ignore the spectacle.

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They don't just play each other each year, the games have huge implications. The winner of this game was going to take the lead in the AFC and in the race to host the AFC Championship game if they meet again. The loser was going to be stuck fighting off a division rival and scrapping for a first round bye. This isn't Bears-Packers, which is a big rivalry between two teams that are both kind of sort of in contention most years but not every year. It's not even like 49ers-Seahawks, where the loser can say, oh well, we'll get them when we meet again. The stakes go up every time they meet. And the biggest stakes are for their legacies - if Manning or Brady wins another Superbowl before they retire, it will have a huge impact on how people see the two of them. It's the best sports rivalry since Magic/Bird.

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In the age of the fantasy world, too many just look at the raw stats. Manning had some good stats yesterday...but the scoreboard is what matters.

Both great QB's, but Brady has the intangibles that sets him apart. Switch QBs yesterday with Brady Qbing Denver, any doubt who wins the game?

not a doubt in my mind that the QB playing for Belichick in Foxboro wins yesterdays game.

Look BB is great hc, but his defs have not been dominant for a long, long time.

I am not saying if you switch qbs the broncos would have definitely won, but I don't understand the slam dunk mentality that its all BB and the qb doesn't matter. Its so dismissive of brady's strengths while overlooking mannings weakness's.

When you have pristine conditions, manning is as good or better than anyone at throwing the ball; however, when things aren't pristine he isn't as good or better than everyone else.

Manning doesn't play as well on the road (most don't) and he doesn't play as well outside in the elements, particularly when it is cold, windy etc. Now with his age and neck injury he doesn't (imho) have the same arm strength he used to have. Time will tell, but I think going forward if you put a decent defense in front of him with those weather conditions you can expect similar results.

On the other side of the line, BB didn't carve up dens defense it was brady again playing well in the elements. Wasn't Dens defense considered to be better than NEs going into the game?

There are lots of little things like playing well outdoors, qb sneaking for key 1st downs (90 out of 95) etc, etc that don't show up in the "passing stats" but are big parts of why brady and NE just continue to win and win. So many don't see him game in and game out and don't realize\appreciate the little things he does that don't show up in the box score.

People can slide the blame\credit to BB, but the truth is there are things Brady does better than Manning and playing outdoors in bad weather is one of them.

the whole "not play well in the cold" is overdone. The fact of the matter is for most of Mannings career, playing outdoors is a surrogate for "on the road" and in the cold is a surrogate for "on the road in the playoffs".

Mannings arm, by all reports, is actually stronger this year than it ever has been. This past off-season is the first time that Manning has ever gone in and lifted weights. he is fully recovered from the neck thing, and all of the rehab got him to a point where he is stronger than he was previously. It's all in the training camp chatter.

Broncos didn't lose this game because Manning struggles in the cold, or in Foxboro, or any of the simple narratives that places like bleacherreport like to push.

I firmly believe NE won because they were a better prepared team. Their defense was more physical, they disguised their defenses better, they created a lot of chaos, they stopped the run, and they did a fantastic job of pressuring Manning up the middle. Denver defense, on the other hand, left giant cushions for the WR's, they gave Gronk a free release for most of the game, they failed to collapse the pocket, and they did not do a good job of adapting.

Please don't misconstrue any of this as criticism of Brady. Bronco pass rush was actually pretty good and they got Brady throwing the ball before he was ready all game; Brady did a fantastic job of getting the ball out on time and finding the open man.

The difference in the game is that the NE defense played better than the Broncos offense, and the NE offense played better than the Bronco defense. It's more than Manning vs Brady. I don't think Manning played terribly - he could have done better, obviously, but he was under durress all game, throwing to WR's who couldn't get open and handing off to a running back going nowhere. If you want to find blame with Manning for this game, that's fine. one int was cearly his fault, the other, well, when you hit your WR in the chest, not sure you can really pin that on Manning.

You don't honestly believe this, do you? His arm has never been great, but it has been obviously weaker post operation(s).

And what's this about never lifting weights?

that's what I remeber reading in August, but can't find a link.

Just finished watching the Denver-St. Louis game and it's more clear than ever that Manning's arm isn't what it once was. He struggles to throw the ball 50 yards down field, and at that distance it's a duck.

Edited by Neofight

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I disagree. His throw to Sanders for a td (50 yards) was perfect.

I think what little problems he has are pressure related, he plays terribly under pressure, behind and even more so in big games. Not saying Brady doesn't, but I think it's much less so.

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