8th in career passing yards and I believe QB rating. 6th all time in TD passes.
Don't need to win a SB or even make one. Plenty of QB's are in the HOF because they were really good for a long time.
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QB Philip Rivers, RET (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Moe Green
- Start date
Don't need to win a SB or even make one. Plenty of QB's are in the HOF because they were really good for a long time.
Yeah it is utter stupidity to argue he is not a HOF caliber QB. Simply dumb.
And yesterday.....he had pressure on him all day. It was ridiculous. Brady I think had one grass stain on his ###. One.
The Patriots OL was the MVP yesterday. They simply dominated the game whistle to whistle. It was incredible to watch. Literally every play the Chargers were pushed back 5 yards on the snap....almost all day.
Rivers can’t overcome that.
And then when on offense, there was a Patriot in Rivers mug less than 2.5 seconds from the snap....literally all day, until they started letting up to run clock and allowing the Chargers to move the ball when the game was already out of hand. This game was not on Rivers. This game was on the OL and DL of the Chargers who were man-handled the entire day.
And yesterday.....he had pressure on him all day. It was ridiculous. Brady I think had one grass stain on his ###. One.
The Patriots OL was the MVP yesterday. They simply dominated the game whistle to whistle. It was incredible to watch. Literally every play the Chargers were pushed back 5 yards on the snap....almost all day.
Rivers can’t overcome that.
And then when on offense, there was a Patriot in Rivers mug less than 2.5 seconds from the snap....literally all day, until they started letting up to run clock and allowing the Chargers to move the ball when the game was already out of hand. This game was not on Rivers. This game was on the OL and DL of the Chargers who were man-handled the entire day.
Ah, this is the game I referenced earlier. Nice breakdown. Such a painful game to watch. I had LT that year and had gotten used to rooting for the Chargers, so I was pretty bummed but can only imagine how people from SD felt. I think AJ Smith fired Marty after that game as if it was his fault they lost. Sometimes I wonder how much better things would have gone for the Chargers if they had fired Smith instead of Marty. Did anybody in SD like Smith back then? I remember thinking he was garbage then and that Norv was a step down from Marty, but never knew how the locals felt about it.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Maybe we need a Hall of Very Good.
Putting Rivers in the HOF with 1-3 years of Brady is an insult to Brady.
Even if you don't put any of the seven losses v. Brady on Rivers, you would think a HOF caliber QB would beat Brady at least once.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Mark Sanchez is right behind him with 4.
- including a win over Rivers (and Manning and Brady).
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Max Power
Footballguy
Here is a good article on keeping Passer ratings in preservative.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kirk-cousins-is-not-better-than-joe-montana-so-lets-fix-passer-rating/
It's some fuzzy math, but puts Rivers 18th all time in passer rating. Just ahead of Chad Pennington and 9 slots behind Tony Romo.
Just something to think about.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kirk-cousins-is-not-better-than-joe-montana-so-lets-fix-passer-rating/
It's some fuzzy math, but puts Rivers 18th all time in passer rating. Just ahead of Chad Pennington and 9 slots behind Tony Romo.
Just something to think about.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I love seeing people argue his stats. You guys arguing his stats aware of the era he is & has been playing in?
To put it in perspective, Joe Montana, who can be argued as the greatest QB ever (although, even being an SF fan, I'd prob concede it is TB) never threw for 4k yards or over 30 TDs in a season. Do you think that is because Rivers is better than Joe Montana?
Guy is just a stat machine, bolstered by the era he plays in. A guy like Dan Marino put his stats up in a different era, that's why his stats are so special.
To put it in perspective, Joe Montana, who can be argued as the greatest QB ever (although, even being an SF fan, I'd prob concede it is TB) never threw for 4k yards or over 30 TDs in a season. Do you think that is because Rivers is better than Joe Montana?
Guy is just a stat machine, bolstered by the era he plays in. A guy like Dan Marino put his stats up in a different era, that's why his stats are so special.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
Adjusted net yards per pass attempt gives a bonus for throwing touchdown passes while penalizing for sacks and interceptions, making it very good at telling you the amount of value provided (or not provided) by a passer in a given game, season, or career.
Rivers is #6 all time.
Unfortunately, there is no statistic that can adequately adjust for quality of supporting cast, coaching, front office, and ownership. Rivers has generally suffered relative to his HOF caliber contemporaries in those areas, which makes what he has accomplished much more impressive IMO.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'll give you maybe the coaching, front office, and ownership piece. I don't think his surrounding talent was that much worse than his peer level. Rivers played with a couple of the league leaders in TDs.
The adjusted yards per pass attempt is a good metric, but there has to be more. Again Tony Romo beats him out in that and no one thinks Tony should be HOF bound.
I'm not one who believes in longevity being a major factor though.
Seriously? It is a team game. This is not Rivers vs Brady. This is The Chargers vs The Patriots.
The entire premise of Super Bowl Rings defining HOF players is a joke. It is about your career and your production. Not about winning titles. Titles are team accomplishments.....in the big picture.
The baseball HOF would be 75% less if they used World Series rings as a measure if you are HOF caliber.
Think about what you are saying. I can even say with almost complete certainty that if you had swapped Marino and Montana.....Marino would have 4-5 rings....easy.
It is a team game. Rivers has had some very good teams. The reason they have not been Super Bowl Caliber has very little to do with Phillip Rivers.
If you think it is on him...that is your opinion. But he will be in the HOF. I very have little doubt about that. Same for Mtt Ryan if he keeps on this current career track as well. His OC costed him a ring two years ago. Otherwise......he beats Brady....oh wait that was his team. His defense laid a total egg in the second half and they never ran the ball when they were running at will. But that is on Ryan....he sucks. He could not beat Brady.
I guess Dan Fouts does not deserve to be in the HOF based on this line of thinking too. He could not beat freaking David Woodley one year....he must suck. Could not beat Ken Anderson.....this guy sucks.
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I disagree. Rivers is a heck of QB. I would have loved to had him in Miami. Big time. Guy is a fierce competitor and a damn good leader. I disagree whole heartedly.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If he was a real HOF QB, he'd have blocked those rushing linemen and given himself more time to throw.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Yes, I agree, he is a heck of a QB. The comment above by @BassNBrew was excellent.
If it was the Hall of Very Good, I'd have him in, HOF, I'd pass. He is a borderline guy, whichever way it goes, I won't be surprised.
shadyridr
Footballguy
I agree, comparing his stats to QBs from other eras would be silly. It is a different game. However, when comparing his stats to QBs of his own generation, its hard to not argue for his stats...
Since 2006 (the year he became starter):
- 3rd in TDs (behind Brees and Brady)
- 2nd in passing yards (behind Brees)
- 4th in wins (behind Brady, Brees, and Ben)
- 95.7 QB Rating
- 4th in pards per attempt (if you ignore 1 season of Mahomes, 2 seasons of Watson, and 1 season of Garropollo) behind Romo, Wilson, and Rogers
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Matt Ryan? What? The same Matt Ryan who threw the ball away, out of the back of the end zone, on 4th and goal with almost no tim left and his team trailing by 7 (earlier this year)? I mean, comparing him to Matt Ryan is not the direction I would go to sway people.
Milkman
Footballguy
Rivers had pressure on him all day? He wasn't very good at getting away from that pressure and making plays was he?
Hmmmmmm........
The Frankman
Footballguy
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yeah. He’s such a special QB that he just KNOWS throwing it up straight in the air 20+ yards is the smart play. In the 1st half. Repeatedly.
Supposedly HOF-bound Phil Rivers was abysmal last night......and though his o-line deserves a lot of blame, his terrible decisions killed any chance the team had of winning versus a guy who doesn’t belong as even a backup in the league.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Rivers has looked great over the years. He certainly doesn't now but the o line does him no favors. Their is no running game now. He has no time.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
whatever....he is a freakin statue back there and his decision making sucks.... him ben and eli should all hang em up
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Jacksonke1
Footballguy
Rivers had a great run and is on the downside for sure, but what can they do?
There are so few athletes in the world that can play NFL QB at an elite level, certainly only a couple dozen who can play the position at a passable level.
There are so few athletes in the world that can play NFL QB at an elite level, certainly only a couple dozen who can play the position at a passable level.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Much respect to Rivers, he's a truly talented QB and has nothing to prove to anyone.
But nothing I like seeing more than sad/angry Rivers.
Was clear his o-line is a sieve, but he looked really shaky and indecisive under pressure. He was never a mobile QB, but he looked a little rattled even when the pocket was collapsing, which I am not used to seeing.
But nothing I like seeing more than sad/angry Rivers.
Was clear his o-line is a sieve, but he looked really shaky and indecisive under pressure. He was never a mobile QB, but he looked a little rattled even when the pocket was collapsing, which I am not used to seeing.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Second time this season I’ve seen Rivers get behind and just start heaving up deep balls on a wing and a prayer.
I don’t recall this being his usual MO. Typically more cerebral and willing to dice up a defense to march downfield. (He used to throw up prayers at Malcolm Floyd but they seemed calculated as part of a solid game plan. )
Seems like, from this observer, Rivers is just “mailing it in” in 2019.
I don’t recall this being his usual MO. Typically more cerebral and willing to dice up a defense to march downfield. (He used to throw up prayers at Malcolm Floyd but they seemed calculated as part of a solid game plan. )
Seems like, from this observer, Rivers is just “mailing it in” in 2019.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
Everyone sing with me: "old man Rivers...."
TheWinz
Footballguy
Was a tough game to watch. OL was dreadful, but the running game was very effective, averaging 4.9 per carry. With Rivers under pressure all game, they should've run it alot more, and threw more quick passes. Every time Rivers held the ball for more than 2 seconds, bad things happened.
need2know
Footballguy
i have to post something like this every year in this thread since Phillip does this several times a year
Rivers is so bad. He beat up on an awful AFC west for years and compiled tons of stats. But whenever a prime time game or playoff game comes up you see his true form. Some of the throws last night he just threw it up without even scanning the field. Every year he has multiple meltdown games like last night where he has multiple turnovers. if not for penalties he would have had like what 6 turnovers last night? Doesn't help that hes basically a statue in the pocket and takes sacks like crazy. I know most are aware of all this but it just irks me when I hear his name get mentioned with the other really great qbs. Hes garbage
Rivers is so bad. He beat up on an awful AFC west for years and compiled tons of stats. But whenever a prime time game or playoff game comes up you see his true form. Some of the throws last night he just threw it up without even scanning the field. Every year he has multiple meltdown games like last night where he has multiple turnovers. if not for penalties he would have had like what 6 turnovers last night? Doesn't help that hes basically a statue in the pocket and takes sacks like crazy. I know most are aware of all this but it just irks me when I hear his name get mentioned with the other really great qbs. Hes garbage
I haven't checked the schedule but he's a good producer in FF, for his draft position, and could be a buy low. Those long passes at the end were perplexing, as they only needed a FG.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
I won’t try to defend a nearly 38-year-old rivers. That said, for the last decade plus he was one of the best quarterbacks in the game.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Not really. He was an above average QB, a great stat compiler, an average-at-best winner.
Tau837
Footballguy
This is one of the worst takes in this 46 page thread, and that is saying something. Pretty much every sentence in this post is wrong. Kudos.
Tau837
Footballguy
A guy is not a compiler if his rate statistics are great in addition to his accumulated statistics. They are.
Tau837
Footballguy
Rivers had a bad game, no doubt about that. He was under heavy pressure all game, and it definitely affected him.
Despite that, he led the Chargers on a TD drive to give the Chargers a 4 point lead with 4:02 remaining in the game. Then the Chargers defense proceeded to allow the Raiders to drive 75 yards for the game winning TD over the next 3 minutes. It's not all on Rivers.
Despite that, he led the Chargers on a TD drive to give the Chargers a 4 point lead with 4:02 remaining in the game. Then the Chargers defense proceeded to allow the Raiders to drive 75 yards for the game winning TD over the next 3 minutes. It's not all on Rivers.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
his decision making is pure garbage right now.....all you need to win is a fg and hes chucking it 40 yards down field...you have your time outs ...its ok to throw 7 yard passes and get a drive going....im baffled at how poorly he played
TheWinz
Footballguy
Rivers will squeak into the HOF, based on his numbers. He is currently #6 all time in yardage. Of the 4 in the top 10 already eligible (Favre, Marino, Elway, Moon), all made it. Peyton will be a shoe-in, and the other 4 active will make it too (Brees, Brady, Eli, Ben). He is currently #6 all time in TD's, trailing only Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre, and Marino, all of which are in, or will be in. The next 4 below him (Ben, Eli, Rodgers, Tarkenton) are in or will be in. He is 9th in wins, trailing only QB's in the hall, or QB's that will be.
Does he deserve to be in the HOF? As a 40+ year fan of the Chargers, the answer is no. He is a good QB, but not great. He lets his emotions get the best of him in the face of adversity. Great QB's find ways to win, but Rivers finds ways to lose. FWIW, I think Eli will make it too, but shouldn't.
Does he deserve to be in the HOF? As a 40+ year fan of the Chargers, the answer is no. He is a good QB, but not great. He lets his emotions get the best of him in the face of adversity. Great QB's find ways to win, but Rivers finds ways to lose. FWIW, I think Eli will make it too, but shouldn't.
