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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (5 Viewers)
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cheese
Footballguy
I think its fair to call the results inconclusive due to the game plan, but how can a vanilla game plan and pretty good execution of that game plan convince some in here that a guy isn't good? Plenty of games have been won by quarterbacks that play careful football. The main problem is, its going to be really hard to win games that way with a defense that isn't any good.FavreCo said:
two_dollars
Footballguy
Not this year but eventually, yes.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Same problems he's always had. He's got decent arm strength, but terrible mechanics. When he scrambles, he reverts to old techniques, dropping the ball all the way to his hip before he throws it. That'll earn him quite a few sacks and swatted balls. I didn't see him read a defense in the manner expected of a high caliber NFL QB (ala Sam Bradford). Runs too violently to be trusted to last a whole season, especially with a move to 18 games. He needs to learn to maximize his running without taking the hard hits. Does tend to float some passes that will end with a high INT rate unless he can improve his mechanics and increase the zip on his passes across the board. Alternatively, he could get away with his current mechanics if he can break down defenses mentally. I don't know the man personally, so I can't begin to claim whether that is likely to happen or not. I could guess based on pure statistics (that there are only a handful of athletes in the entire world that are skilled enough to do so), that it is unlikely. Overall, I think Orton is a better QB for that team, and I hope they trade him to a team that will use him (I liked the Arizona suggestion, would be a great fit).
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
That's insane. Tebow is not the 2nd coming of M. Vick. He made some plays against some broken down defenses. Those plays will not be there consistently. When the Raiders regrouped and discussed the situation, they shut down the run game completely and led to a safety. Tebow got figured out quickly, and others will follow.
thehornet
Footballguy
two dollars thing is tired. he doesnt even let people own vick in his fantasy church league. Only a clueless person would even suggest tebow is or will be better than vick.
FavreCo
Footballguy
What I couldn't beleive is that they actually defended 3-24 in the 1st Q as if he was a threat to pass for it. Once they saw that they made a huge mistake they adjusted and brought everyone to the LOS. Solid game film for the league that Denver is going to have to adapt to.
faulknromos
Footballguy
I think Tebow will be a quality QB. That was a quality defense he was playing against. At least his wonderlic doesn't look like Vince Young and he works his ### off.
two_dollars
Footballguy
Vick of 2001 was not Vick of 2011 either.
Hang 10
Footballguy
What's funny about that? Quinn sucks. Who isn't a better option than Brady?
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Insoxicated
Aren't the Raiders 20th out of 32 teams for points allowed?
Johnny Ice
Footballguy
two_dollars said:
That's all you get.
massraider
Footballguy
Great post. It didn't look to me like he was spooked or anything, it just looked to me like he's not an NFL passer. I notice people keep pointing to the same pass to Lloyd on the out as proof that he can pass the ball with zip. Well, that's one. It is way too early to say, but he uncorked some floaters yesterday. I saw balls take a while to get released, and a while to get there. The savvy, the leadership, the 'will to win', I believe that's all there, sure. But I think the combination of his lack of zip on the ball, and willingness to run (and I am going to guess, his reluctance to slide) is going to hold him back. There are physical things that I think successful NFL QBs have to be able to do. Passes they need to make with a flick of the wrist. I haven't seen the ability for Tebow to make those passes. But heck, I've also only seen 16 passes from him in the NFL. He could get better.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Well maybe that's true, but when you post things like thisFavreCo said:
it seems like you don't know a draw from a scramble and can't recognize the difference by looking at the blocking. Either that or you think Tebow is ignoring the play calls from the sideline and calling his own plays in his first NFL start because Tim Tebow has that much disrespect for authority. Either way I'm going to stop reading your posts in Tebow/Broncos threads. I should have stopped when you described the pass he dropped over the DBs into the back corner of the end zone as "horrid". Either you're determined to describe anything he does negatively regardless of the truth or you just don't know what you are talking about.FavreCo said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, the whole 'haters' thing is a bit played out (don't even know what to say about 'haterz').Thing is, people using the term are kind of letting you know immediately that any criticism will be met with this label, pretty much letting you know that any criticism will be completely ignored.HATER!He's clearly the next Steve Young.
switz
Footballguy
You may just want to extend that to all his posts. He is in the habit of insulting anyone's football IQ when they disagree, then running away when they point out the flaws in his arguments. It's probably not worth the time to read or reply to his posts.
thehornet
Footballguy
this is hysterical coming from one of the most notorious cherry-picking stat guys on this board.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
For those who missed the game, Tebow highlites.
The TD throw that someone said would have been "praised if it were Manning or Brady" is at the 0:44 mark.
Tell me honestly if it was not an extremely poor decision to throw the ball. That ball should be picked off 100 times out of 100.
The TD throw that someone said would have been "praised if it were Manning or Brady" is at the 0:44 mark.
Tell me honestly if it was not an extremely poor decision to throw the ball. That ball should be picked off 100 times out of 100.
Thanks for the link. I liked what I saw a lot. Lots to learn but clearly has the ability to succeed at this level. Sure he'll make some bad decisions. I think we all expect that. But it makes total sense to me to let him start the rest of this season and see what you have.So far so good though.
J
moleculo
Footballguy
that's not true at all. When I said "haterz", you should realize that I'm talking to the naysayers to expand on why they thought he looked "terrible".I asked previously for someone to chime in with criticism that went beyond the playcalling. So far, only two items have been offered up - too much touch on his passes (i.e. lack of zip), and a 33 yard throw into double coverage that ended up being a TD. Macintyre1 also criticizes his mechanics, but I'm not sure if that's an unbiased opinion of what he saw on Sunday, or residual criticism from the off-season.I'm optimistic for Tebow, but I'm not ready to crown him the QBotF either. I just want to hear from the downers exactly why they saw the same stuff I saw yesterday, and conclude "terrible" and cling on to a pre-conceived notion that he can never be an NFL caliber QB.Yeah, the whole 'haters' thing is a bit played out (don't even know what to say about 'haterz').Thing is, people using the term are kind of letting you know immediately that any criticism will be met with this label, pretty much letting you know that any criticism will be completely ignored.HATER!He's clearly the next Steve Young.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Tebow should never be mentioned in the same breath as the Starship 7. Vick is as good a passer as anyone in the NFL, and his dual threat is truly elite in a way that hasn't been seen in ages.
Tebow will never be a good passer. Tebow’s delivery is slow and ponderous like Byron Leftwich, and almost side armed wind up like Bernie Kosar. Also he doesn’t have NFL arm strength or accuracy. He can’t get the ball out of his hand in half the time it takes a P. Rivers to fire a pass.
Tebow will never be a good passer. Tebow’s delivery is slow and ponderous like Byron Leftwich, and almost side armed wind up like Bernie Kosar. Also he doesn’t have NFL arm strength or accuracy. He can’t get the ball out of his hand in half the time it takes a P. Rivers to fire a pass.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Yeah, everyone raved about Vick as a passer when he was in Atlanta.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
FavreCo said:
This shtick is annoying but amusing.gotexansgo
Footballguy
exactly, how long did it take Vick to learn how to be a passer? Tebow has plenty arm strength for the NFL, we wont really know the rest until he is given a better opportunity to show everyone what he can really do.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
so is he to be trusted in a championship game v the texans @ home?
az_prof
Footballguy
I have to agree with Joe. There is a lot to like here. Can he be a great NFL QB? Who knows? He still needs to show he can read defenses and throw accurately under pressure. But he can certainly run against NFL defenses and his throwing arm looks fine to me. The question isn't IS he an NFL QB anymore; it's how good of an NFL QB can he become and how quickly?
thatguy
Footballguy
Love the detailed breakdown.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
I liked that Tebow actually let that ball fly. Was it ill advised, perhaps.. but you have to get the ball into your playmakers hands. Tebow read quarters defense, the corner froze for just a moment, and Timmy decided to let Money Lloyd make a play on the ball.
I was talking on the air with Darius Walker on the NO BS Broncos Postgame show and I pointed out to him and the audience that play is one of the reasons why Quinn won't see the field.
Brady Quinn has always been so afraid to make a mistake that he never makes a play with the ball as he's too cautious. Tebow saw something he liked and let it fly. Money Lloyd is the type of player you don't need pinpoint accuracy for. Throw it in his general vicinity and Money will bring it down. That is what Tebow did and I applaud the rookie for reading that and making the play.
Several things for Tebow to work on here, but for a first start it wasn't a complete trainwreck.
BTW, they still should take Andrew Luck if they have a chance to.
CalBear
Footballguy
Definitely a bad decision. But he also had a TD dropped on a good read and good throw.
massraider
Footballguy
I agree with this. I had no problem with that pass. It was to the back corner, and it was kind of a prayer, but it wasn't directly into the hands of Routt or anything. QBs make that throw all the time, and it gets picked once in a while, but more often than not it gets knocked out of bounds, or the WR makes a great play. If you rewatch the play, Routt should have knocked it down with his right hand, but he sure wasn't close to catching it. It wasn't an amazing, needle-threading bullet, but good QBs take that chance, and get away with it.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
And smart QBs understand when a pick is probably going to be better than a punt, so give luck a chance.
thehornet
Footballguy
bad qb's make that decision too and get lucky. thats what happended here.
massraider
Footballguy
I guess. Calling him a bad QB at this point isn't really going out on a limb. And really, he should be bad in his first game, with no running game, and an overly conservative gameplan. Wasn't really set up for success. Like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle for me. He was not awful, and I didn't think he was exceptionally promising. And it was one game. Just one game.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
As I reported earlier, Tebow named starter for week 16 against Houston.
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#3012
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/news.php#3012
He will provide this with each game. Well maybe not against the Texans. But as more game film is produced for opposing Defence, Tebow's lack of NFL QB abilities will be exposed. He is going to be sacked a ####load, stripped of the ball a ####load and throwing INT's a ####load. My god I've never seen a ball hang in the air as long as his. Nice kid, big heart but NFL QB talent ?that's not true at all. When I said "haterz", you should realize that I'm talking to the naysayers to expand on why they thought he looked "terrible".I asked previously for someone to chime in with criticism that went beyond the playcalling. So far, only two items have been offered up - too much touch on his passes (i.e. lack of zip), and a 33 yard throw into double coverage that ended up being a TD. Macintyre1 also criticizes his mechanics, but I'm not sure if that's an unbiased opinion of what he saw on Sunday, or residual criticism from the off-season.Yeah, the whole 'haters' thing is a bit played out (don't even know what to say about 'haterz').Thing is, people using the term are kind of letting you know immediately that any criticism will be met with this label, pretty much letting you know that any criticism will be completely ignored.
HATER!
He's clearly the next Steve Young.
I'm optimistic for Tebow, but I'm not ready to crown him the QBotF either. I just want to hear from the downers exactly why they saw the same stuff I saw yesterday, and conclude "terrible" and cling on to a pre-conceived notion that he can never be an NFL caliber QB.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
My point here is that opinions and prognostications are more colored by prejiduces than what we saw on Sunday. Tebow was sacked twice (not a ####load), was never stripped, and didn't throw any interceptions. In pre-season, he didn't throw more picks or was sacked more than typical rookie QB's.You may end up being right, but what we saw in oakland neither confirmed nor refuted all of the pre-draft criticism. continuing to beat on that drum really adds nothing. In fact, parroting these opinions after a game where he didn't really show these caracteristics is counter-productive.He will provide this with each game. Well maybe not against the Texans. But as more game film is produced for opposing Defence, Tebow's lack of NFL QB abilities will be exposed. He is going to be sacked a ####load, stripped of the ball a ####load and throwing INT's a ####load. My god I've never seen a ball hang in the air as long as his. Nice kid, big heart but NFL QB talent ?that's not true at all. When I said "haterz", you should realize that I'm talking to the naysayers to expand on why they thought he looked "terrible".I asked previously for someone to chime in with criticism that went beyond the playcalling. So far, only two items have been offered up - too much touch on his passes (i.e. lack of zip), and a 33 yard throw into double coverage that ended up being a TD. Macintyre1 also criticizes his mechanics, but I'm not sure if that's an unbiased opinion of what he saw on Sunday, or residual criticism from the off-season.Yeah, the whole 'haters' thing is a bit played out (don't even know what to say about 'haterz').Thing is, people using the term are kind of letting you know immediately that any criticism will be met with this label, pretty much letting you know that any criticism will be completely ignored.
HATER!
He's clearly the next Steve Young.
I'm optimistic for Tebow, but I'm not ready to crown him the QBotF either. I just want to hear from the downers exactly why they saw the same stuff I saw yesterday, and conclude "terrible" and cling on to a pre-conceived notion that he can never be an NFL caliber QB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I was actually surprised by how well he played, and while I wasn't a beleiver I wasn't a hater either, but "lack of zip /= "too much touch on his passes". What some people said was that many of his passes floated - which is a valid criticism.I was impressed with his running, he showed adequate enough speed to get by NFL defenders and thought he threw reasonably well for a rookie in his first start. I also agree that criticizing that deep TD pass is a little disingenous. It wasn't necessarily a great decision but it was an impressive throw.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I'm actually expecting a fantastic game out of him this week.... no shtick.
The Texans lost Mario and have absolutely no pass rush. Not to mention they laid down against the Titans. It's not easy to make Kerry Collins look like Dan Marino. I'm putting my $$$ where my mouth is. Denver +8.5 in a bunch of teasers. GO TIMMY!!!
The Texans lost Mario and have absolutely no pass rush. Not to mention they laid down against the Titans. It's not easy to make Kerry Collins look like Dan Marino. I'm putting my $$$ where my mouth is. Denver +8.5 in a bunch of teasers. GO TIMMY!!!
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Say what you have to say. The HUCKS routine is weak.
Instinctive
Footballguy
In the stattracker, I have yet to see a completion of less than 20 yards. I see 20, 21, 23, 50, 41...what's happening in that game? Are receivers gaining a ton of YAC, or does Tebow have a nice deep ball?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I saw two of them. The 50-yarder to Gaffney was a very nice throw.He just threw the 41-yarder to Lloyd which was an ill-advised throw. Should have been picked, but Lloyd (as Lloyd does) made a great play to steal the ball.Even Steve Tasker, who is doing the color, said it shouldn't have been thrown but he got away with it.
LargeMouthBass
Footballguy
Is it safe to assume the GOD is not on his side today?
gianmarco
Footballguy
I said it last week and got this fantastic response from you: NegativeSay what you have to say. The HUCKS routine is weak.
I never did really hear back from you after last week
I've been a pretty vocal supporter of Tebow since well before the draft. So far, in very limited time, he's done what many were saying he wasn't capable of doing whatsoever. I don't know if the guy is ever going to be a consistent stud of an NFL QB, but the guy has the tools to do well and isn't failing miserably like many predicted by writing him off completely as a QB. In fact, he was only supposed to be an H-Back or something like that. The guy is a QB and is showing he's capable of playing the position at the NFL level.
