Dynasty & Redraft: TE Tim Tebow, Jaguars (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

Ertz is “stick a fork in him” done at 30, and more to the point, was actually a very good NFL TE for a number of years. 

I can’t imagine Tebow amounts to anything more than a cheap headline grab, which I strongly suspect was the team’s intent.

Again - nothing against Tebow. He seems like a nice person & I admire his drive & passion for the game. 

If we are to believe the hype, the plan for Tebow is to become the Jaguars version of Taysom Hill, perhaps with a broader range of potential responsibilities. Basically a jack of all trades, gadget type player. Part TE, part H-back, part wildcat QB, part goal line / short yardage QB, part oversize receiver / mismatch when needed.

I have nothing against the man and wish him well, but I suspect there are any number of players that are 10-12 years younger that could serve that specialty role that would be significantly better at it because they are younger, stronger, faster . . . and have experience doing it and have already been used that way. If Meyer likes having him around as a good leader and mentor, just add him to the coaching staff as an assistant to help coach up the young guys. They could tell Trevor to do the opposite of everything TT tells him to do and things will turn out fine. I'm mostly joking about the part with Lawrence, but other than being BFF's with Meyer, I am finding it harder and harder to believe that Tebow should be on a game day roster.

 

[wgoldsph]

Can I just get @Hot Sauce Guy
to reply to everything for me?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Can I just get @Hot Sauce Guy
to reply to everything for me?

I charge $3 a post. $4 if you want me to state an opinion I disagree with. 

 

[DJackson10]

Not going to dive into your entire post, but terrible coaching & lack of talent at the skill positions surrounding him + injuries almost certainly depressed his numbers in his final season. 

His last full season he started 16 games, completed 60% of his passes for 3369 air yards and 19:10, while rushing for 649 yards & 1, including a rush of 90 yards. 

after that season, he started 9 games due to injury.  The following year (2016) Kaep had “in way over his head” Chip Kelly as HC, nobody OC Curtis Modkins who wanted to turn Kaep into a pocket passer, and a receiving corps of such “elite” receiving weapons as Jeremy Kerley, Vance McDonald, Quinten Patton & washed up never-was Torrey Smith, while starting behind a raggedy OL  

if that’s not a recipe for QB success, I don’t know what is!
[/heavy mocking sarcasm tones]

Regardless of his issues with arguably the weakest supporting cast in the country, the problem people had with Kaepernick getting blackballed wasn’t that a “sucky” QB couldn’t get a job, it’s the a vast many QBs who sucked a LOT more than Kaepeenick’s worst season in terrible circumstances were getting jobs as backup QBs & he wasn’t even getting calls to try out anywhere for anything. He sued the NFL for it & they settled, presumably because they knew they’d lose. People defending Kaep’s situation weren’t “whiners”, they were correct. The man took a knee to raise awareness of police violence against people of color & was blackballed for it. And not for nothin, using the hindsight of several high profile killings of black men by police, he was sooooooo right. 

I look forward to your sincere retort about how teams in 2017 were sooooo much better off with Cooper Rush, Bryce Petty, Drew Stanton, Scott Tolzien, Austin Davis, Nathan Peterson, Jake Rudock, Landry Jones, Sean Mannion, C.J. Beathard, Caradale Jones, E.J. Manuel, Paxton Lynch, Ryan Mallett - do I really need to go on here? Every one of these absolute scrubs (and a dozen more just like them) had a job holding a clipboard at the start of the 2017, season, but a dude 3 years removed from a Super Bowl couldn’t even get a tryout.

You absolutely certain that didn’t have more to do with Kaepernick’s politics in a league that *just this year* halted the practice of collectively agreeing that concussions/CTE wasn’t as bad for black folks since they had inferior brains to begin with? Really?

C’mon. 

Colin and guys like him I have issues with. I was hoping and maybe I'll create a post on this when I got more time before the season, but Colin, Mike Vick, Lamar Jackson's of the world are already in their prime entering the league. This also shows why the "they didn't put enough talent around X" is a load of BS or "He wasn't coached right that year is as well.

The TLDR Version Explanation on these QBs: These guys in HS are usually the best athletes with the best arms strength wise. They are just told to go out and do their thing. Never really taught how to read defense pre and post snap and many of these schools are in win now or coach gets fired so they have zero time to develop the player. There were reports that the Eagles had Jason Kelce doing the QB protection calls when Mike Vick was with us because he had zero clue how to do it and the offensive West Coast playbook was too complicated for him. Thats just embarrassing I'm sorry. 

They get to college and there isn't much time to really develop the guy (especially if they come as a top recruit. This is the important time in a QBs development  where with Pre and post snap correctly learning to read defenses they get to see different looks and play against better talent. Now some of these college offenses are schemed to pad stats or leagues that pad offensive Numbers AKA Oklahoma and the Big 12. They still don't develop proper mechanics

So let's get to the NFL. For similar reasons when a guy reaches the majors in baseball and try and get them a new batting stance or better mechanics it's harder to get those things for a QB in the NFL especially one who may have play 8 yrs already from HS and all for yrs of college. It also falls on the athlete to be better. In Vick's case he had a terrible work ethic. In SF there was definitely concerns about Colins work ethic prior to the whole kneeling. Jay Glazer reported he was on an island all alone and I was told Harbaugh one of the issues he had in SF was how much the York's babied Kaepernick. He also slept with Aldon Smith's GF at the time and which caused the Training camp fight. I was told by a person close to the situation Smith wasn't let go because of off the field issues but Because the York's are trying to get everyone that's anti Kaepernick out of the building. They are babying the guy to death and it's sickening. Keep was also not doing his part to work better. 

Now yes talent around these guys matter which is why I believe these guys shouldn't be 1st round picks. These are QB who fit a team who maybe the team knows they can't afford to a franchise Long term QB anyway and might just be a good QB away from being a Contender AKA Baltimore Ravens is a great example with Lamar. We are already seeing decline in him as teams gather more tape. The 49ers had talent but unfortunately a lot of that talent around Keep that hid a lot of his faults was let go and never replaced. At the same time Kapernick was in a huge decline. Guys like Kaepernick had a shelf life in the nFL for 2-4 good seasons before they start to decline if they don't put the work in. After that they make really good spot starting back ups. It also doesn't help when said Org is babying the player and only wants to surround him with people who won't criticize him. It also doesn't help in half a season he played his last year he led the NFL in Yards lost per sacks, Fumbles lost by skilled position players and TO's by Skilled position players. His better stats were padded stats at end of Games when teams played prevent the 2nd half protecting a 4TD advantage. It also doesn't help that Colin has the record for worst QB statistical performance in Modern SB Era that year as well. Colin was on a steady decline and the 49ers knew that but unfortunately put themselves in a terrible contract. Colin had the top Rushing attack in the NFL or close to it the SB season and a top 3 defense that year as well which helps a whole lot. Lets not sit here and pretend Colin Miracoulously took this team to the SB. He played a horrible GB defense 

As for wh these other guys were signed. The NFL hires murders, rapist and drug dealers because their talent on the field for them outweighs the negative attention. Colin and his media distractions out weighed the talent he brought to teams. It also doesn't help that the Ravens were about to sign him when a Ravens PR person came in and said yeah Colins GF Neesha just called Ozzie Newsome a yes man to slave owner among other things. When the team asked Colin to tell his GF to delete the tweets and denounce her opinion he refused. Can't remember but I think the Dolphins cut a player because his wife made comments about the org around a similar time too. So these guys they may have sucked but they didn't bring unneeded distractions to the teams and org. 

As for the lawsuit the league settled just to not drag it along. Malcom Jenkins could've sued him and Eric Reid for Defamation and cease and desist on the subject as a whole for making inflammatory remarks and false statements on Jenkins. Jenkins tried to get Colin a part of the Players Coalition but the PC wanted an active player as the president. When all the attention went away from Colin and Eric to the coalition and what can be done with the NFL Colin stopped all contact with the PC. Jenkins tried to get through to CK's agent as well who also ghosted multiple people. 

So why didn't Malcom take Colin to Court? One he was the better person in that situation and just saw them as throwing a temper tantrum. And 2 him going after Colin does nothing but put a negative on the fight the players coalition is on. May I also remind you Eric Reid because of all of this kept going after Jenkins despite signing with the Panthers and got into an altercation pre game with Numerious Eagles players. Reid then tried to cheap shot Jenkins QB Carson Wentz and even the Announcers said something to the effect that Carolina needs to get him off the field before he does something stupid. Torrey Smith a former Teammate of Jenkins on Car then was trying to calm Reid down and Reid almost got into a physical altercation with Jenkins. Reid accursed Torrey Smith of not being a team player and continued to talk smack on Jenkins. Meanwhile Jenkins routinely said he was happy to see Eric Reid in the NFL and Colin should be on a team just making himself look like the better person in all of this with numerous players having his back around the league. 

Finally CK despite sucking kept asking for starter money and thinking he was ENTITLED TO A STARTING SPOT. Instead of saying hey I sucked this past year give me a 1 year prove it deal he decided to go the route of asking for too much money and a starting job. Now I can't say for sure this was intentional to help his later argument but if I'm a Judge I'm bringing up this and the GFs tweets as prime examples in court why his case is bad for him. 

So why was CK not  signed

1. His talent was godawful and the distractions off the field didn't warrant it 

2. Asked for too much money and guarantee starting spot despite his play

3. His poor work ethic, needing to be babied, not coachable, girl friends tweets 

4. Going after the NFLPA and one of their most Respective Players in Malcom Jenkins 

5. Essentially burning any and all bridges he had left in the NFL 

I think people forget 2,3, and 4. Especially Neesha's tweets among other things she's said in the past. Kapernick I really don't believe wanted to continue to play in the NFL. I'm all for the Social Justice movement, BLM etc Heck I can DM you my person Facebook and you can sift through it if you don't believe me. However what I see in Kaepernick is someone in over his head. He has a GF who's a known Locker room rat who's using him and his money and the minute the money is gone she's gone influencing him into stuff. I think it's nothing more then Virtue Signaling by him. I'm against anyone saying Players don't have a right to protest however I don't see this as a league blackballing a player.

The problem here is the whole situation there is a lot of key pieces involved and anyone can twist and turn any of them to fit their own agenda. Most of the people complaining for Kaepernick never watched a game or know very little about the league. People reporting on the situation giving football opinions who really have ZERO BUSINESS doing so. I mean how would you like it if you had people breathing down your neck telling you how to do your job who have zero knowledge of your job to begin with? Most of these media on both sides see an agenda. The right sees a perfect opportunity to put a military that they could careless about any war crimes it commits or their own soldiers hurt pretending to be all for everyone in the military and fake patriotism, then you got the Right media who loves to blow a lot of things up into "Oh thats racism man?" and grasping at straws and trying to cancel anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with them in the slightest. It doesn't allow anyone to be in the middle. It's you either with this or that side or against us mentality. 

I've said before I'm not hiring a player if I was in charge if his availability is an issue no matter how great he is. At the same opposite Side I'm also not signing a Colin Kaepernick who's distractions off the field outweigh what positives he brings on it 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Colin and guys like him I have issues with. I was hoping and maybe I'll create a post on this when I got more time before the season, but Colin, Mike Vick, Lamar Jackson's of the world are already in their prime entering the league. This also shows why the "they didn't put enough talent around X" is a load of BS or "He wasn't coached right that year is as well.

The TLDR Version Explanation on these QBs: These guys in HS are usually the best athletes with the best arms strength wise. They are just told to go out and do their thing. Never really taught how to read defense pre and post snap and many of these schools are in win now or coach gets fired so they have zero time to develop the player. There were reports that the Eagles had Jason Kelce doing the QB protection calls when Mike Vick was with us because he had zero clue how to do it and the offensive West Coast playbook was too complicated for him. Thats just embarrassing I'm sorry. 

They get to college and there isn't much time to really develop the guy (especially if they come as a top recruit. This is the important time in a QBs development  where with Pre and post snap correctly learning to read defenses they get to see different looks and play against better talent. Now some of these college offenses are schemed to pad stats or leagues that pad offensive Numbers AKA Oklahoma and the Big 12. They still don't develop proper mechanics

So let's get to the NFL. For similar reasons when a guy reaches the majors in baseball and try and get them a new batting stance or better mechanics it's harder to get those things for a QB in the NFL especially one who may have play 8 yrs already from HS and all for yrs of college. It also falls on the athlete to be better. In Vick's case he had a terrible work ethic. In SF there was definitely concerns about Colins work ethic prior to the whole kneeling. Jay Glazer reported he was on an island all alone and I was told Harbaugh one of the issues he had in SF was how much the York's babied Kaepernick. He also slept with Aldon Smith's GF at the time and which caused the Training camp fight. I was told by a person close to the situation Smith wasn't let go because of off the field issues but Because the York's are trying to get everyone that's anti Kaepernick out of the building. They are babying the guy to death and it's sickening. Keep was also not doing his part to work better. 

Now yes talent around these guys matter which is why I believe these guys shouldn't be 1st round picks. These are QB who fit a team who maybe the team knows they can't afford to a franchise Long term QB anyway and might just be a good QB away from being a Contender AKA Baltimore Ravens is a great example with Lamar. We are already seeing decline in him as teams gather more tape. The 49ers had talent but unfortunately a lot of that talent around Keep that hid a lot of his faults was let go and never replaced. At the same time Kapernick was in a huge decline. Guys like Kaepernick had a shelf life in the nFL for 2-4 good seasons before they start to decline if they don't put the work in. After that they make really good spot starting back ups. It also doesn't help when said Org is babying the player and only wants to surround him with people who won't criticize him. It also doesn't help in half a season he played his last year he led the NFL in Yards lost per sacks, Fumbles lost by skilled position players and TO's by Skilled position players. His better stats were padded stats at end of Games when teams played prevent the 2nd half protecting a 4TD advantage. It also doesn't help that Colin has the record for worst QB statistical performance in Modern SB Era that year as well. Colin was on a steady decline and the 49ers knew that but unfortunately put themselves in a terrible contract. Colin had the top Rushing attack in the NFL or close to it the SB season and a top 3 defense that year as well which helps a whole lot. Lets not sit here and pretend Colin Miracoulously took this team to the SB. He played a horrible GB defense 

As for wh these other guys were signed. The NFL hires murders, rapist and drug dealers because their talent on the field for them outweighs the negative attention. Colin and his media distractions out weighed the talent he brought to teams. It also doesn't help that the Ravens were about to sign him when a Ravens PR person came in and said yeah Colins GF Neesha just called Ozzie Newsome a yes man to slave owner among other things. When the team asked Colin to tell his GF to delete the tweets and denounce her opinion he refused. Can't remember but I think the Dolphins cut a player because his wife made comments about the org around a similar time too. So these guys they may have sucked but they didn't bring unneeded distractions to the teams and org. 

As for the lawsuit the league settled just to not drag it along. Malcom Jenkins could've sued him and Eric Reid for Defamation and cease and desist on the subject as a whole for making inflammatory remarks and false statements on Jenkins. Jenkins tried to get Colin a part of the Players Coalition but the PC wanted an active player as the president. When all the attention went away from Colin and Eric to the coalition and what can be done with the NFL Colin stopped all contact with the PC. Jenkins tried to get through to CK's agent as well who also ghosted multiple people. 

So why didn't Malcom take Colin to Court? One he was the better person in that situation and just saw them as throwing a temper tantrum. And 2 him going after Colin does nothing but put a negative on the fight the players coalition is on. May I also remind you Eric Reid because of all of this kept going after Jenkins despite signing with the Panthers and got into an altercation pre game with Numerious Eagles players. Reid then tried to cheap shot Jenkins QB Carson Wentz and even the Announcers said something to the effect that Carolina needs to get him off the field before he does something stupid. Torrey Smith a former Teammate of Jenkins on Car then was trying to calm Reid down and Reid almost got into a physical altercation with Jenkins. Reid accursed Torrey Smith of not being a team player and continued to talk smack on Jenkins. Meanwhile Jenkins routinely said he was happy to see Eric Reid in the NFL and Colin should be on a team just making himself look like the better person in all of this with numerous players having his back around the league. 

Finally CK despite sucking kept asking for starter money and thinking he was ENTITLED TO A STARTING SPOT. Instead of saying hey I sucked this past year give me a 1 year prove it deal he decided to go the route of asking for too much money and a starting job. Now I can't say for sure this was intentional to help his later argument but if I'm a Judge I'm bringing up this and the GFs tweets as prime examples in court why his case is bad for him. 

So why was CK not  signed

1. His talent was godawful and the distractions off the field didn't warrant it 

2. Asked for too much money and guarantee starting spot despite his play

3. His poor work ethic, needing to be babied, not coachable, girl friends tweets 

4. Going after the NFLPA and one of their most Respective Players in Malcom Jenkins 

5. Essentially burning any and all bridges he had left in the NFL 

I think people forget 2,3, and 4. Especially Neesha's tweets among other things she's said in the past. Kapernick I really don't believe wanted to continue to play in the NFL. I'm all for the Social Justice movement, BLM etc Heck I can DM you my person Facebook and you can sift through it if you don't believe me. However what I see in Kaepernick is someone in over his head. He has a GF who's a known Locker room rat who's using him and his money and the minute the money is gone she's gone influencing him into stuff. I think it's nothing more then Virtue Signaling by him. I'm against anyone saying Players don't have a right to protest however I don't see this as a league blackballing a player.

The problem here is the whole situation there is a lot of key pieces involved and anyone can twist and turn any of them to fit their own agenda. Most of the people complaining for Kaepernick never watched a game or know very little about the league. People reporting on the situation giving football opinions who really have ZERO BUSINESS doing so. I mean how would you like it if you had people breathing down your neck telling you how to do your job who have zero knowledge of your job to begin with? Most of these media on both sides see an agenda. The right sees a perfect opportunity to put a military that they could careless about any war crimes it commits or their own soldiers hurt pretending to be all for everyone in the military and fake patriotism, then you got the Right media who loves to blow a lot of things up into "Oh thats racism man?" and grasping at straws and trying to cancel anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with them in the slightest. It doesn't allow anyone to be in the middle. It's you either with this or that side or against us mentality. 

I've said before I'm not hiring a player if I was in charge if his availability is an issue no matter how great he is. At the same opposite Side I'm also not signing a Colin Kaepernick who's distractions off the field outweigh what positives he brings on it 

That’s an awful lot of words to avoid answering the simple question of why 20 backups obviously worse than Kaeprnick were signed to hold a clipboard, but he couldn’t even get a tryout. 

 

[rzrback77]

That’s an awful lot of words to avoid answering the simple question of why 20 backups obviously worse than Kaeprnick were signed to hold a clipboard, but he couldn’t even get a tryout. 

Clipboard holders are usually hard workers that give their best for the team. CK went more for its all amour me, not good back-up material.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Clipboard holders are usually hard workers that give their best for the team. CK went more for its all amour me, not good back-up material.

I’m not sure what “amour me” means, but if you’re saying Kaep wasn’t a team guy or a hard worker you’re entirely mistaken on both. 

during his time in SF, dude was a gym rat. He was first to the facility & last to leave. He reportedly studied hard & was a total team guy. He was seen as a leader in the locker room and on the field. 
 

The rumors about him reek of laziness, since he was voted by teammates as the team's Len Eshmont award winner. “The award was voted on by San Francisco players and is given to the 49er who "best exemplifies the inspirational and courageous play of Len Eshmont,”

This information is easily researched. 
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colin-kaepernick-wins-prestigious-award-voted-on-by-49ers-teammates/

 

[matuski]

Colin and guys like him I have issues with. I was hoping and maybe I'll create a post on this when I got more time before the season, but Colin, Mike Vick, Lamar Jackson's of the world are already in their prime entering the league. This also shows why the "they didn't put enough talent around X" is a load of BS or "He wasn't coached right that year is as well.

The TLDR Version Explanation on these QBs: These guys in HS are usually the best athletes with the best arms strength wise. They are just told to go out and do their thing. Never really taught how to read defense pre and post snap and many of these schools are in win now or coach gets fired so they have zero time to develop the player. There were reports that the Eagles had Jason Kelce doing the QB protection calls when Mike Vick was with us because he had zero clue how to do it and the offensive West Coast playbook was too complicated for him. Thats just embarrassing I'm sorry. 

They get to college and there isn't much time to really develop the guy (especially if they come as a top recruit. This is the important time in a QBs development  where with Pre and post snap correctly learning to read defenses they get to see different looks and play against better talent. Now some of these college offenses are schemed to pad stats or leagues that pad offensive Numbers AKA Oklahoma and the Big 12. They still don't develop proper mechanics

So let's get to the NFL. For similar reasons when a guy reaches the majors in baseball and try and get them a new batting stance or better mechanics it's harder to get those things for a QB in the NFL especially one who may have play 8 yrs already from HS and all for yrs of college. It also falls on the athlete to be better. In Vick's case he had a terrible work ethic. In SF there was definitely concerns about Colins work ethic prior to the whole kneeling. Jay Glazer reported he was on an island all alone and I was told Harbaugh one of the issues he had in SF was how much the York's babied Kaepernick. He also slept with Aldon Smith's GF at the time and which caused the Training camp fight. I was told by a person close to the situation Smith wasn't let go because of off the field issues but Because the York's are trying to get everyone that's anti Kaepernick out of the building. They are babying the guy to death and it's sickening. Keep was also not doing his part to work better. 

Now yes talent around these guys matter which is why I believe these guys shouldn't be 1st round picks. These are QB who fit a team who maybe the team knows they can't afford to a franchise Long term QB anyway and might just be a good QB away from being a Contender AKA Baltimore Ravens is a great example with Lamar. We are already seeing decline in him as teams gather more tape. The 49ers had talent but unfortunately a lot of that talent around Keep that hid a lot of his faults was let go and never replaced. At the same time Kapernick was in a huge decline. Guys like Kaepernick had a shelf life in the nFL for 2-4 good seasons before they start to decline if they don't put the work in. After that they make really good spot starting back ups. It also doesn't help when said Org is babying the player and only wants to surround him with people who won't criticize him. It also doesn't help in half a season he played his last year he led the NFL in Yards lost per sacks, Fumbles lost by skilled position players and TO's by Skilled position players. His better stats were padded stats at end of Games when teams played prevent the 2nd half protecting a 4TD advantage. It also doesn't help that Colin has the record for worst QB statistical performance in Modern SB Era that year as well. Colin was on a steady decline and the 49ers knew that but unfortunately put themselves in a terrible contract. Colin had the top Rushing attack in the NFL or close to it the SB season and a top 3 defense that year as well which helps a whole lot. Lets not sit here and pretend Colin Miracoulously took this team to the SB. He played a horrible GB defense 

As for wh these other guys were signed. The NFL hires murders, rapist and drug dealers because their talent on the field for them outweighs the negative attention. Colin and his media distractions out weighed the talent he brought to teams. It also doesn't help that the Ravens were about to sign him when a Ravens PR person came in and said yeah Colins GF Neesha just called Ozzie Newsome a yes man to slave owner among other things. When the team asked Colin to tell his GF to delete the tweets and denounce her opinion he refused. Can't remember but I think the Dolphins cut a player because his wife made comments about the org around a similar time too. So these guys they may have sucked but they didn't bring unneeded distractions to the teams and org. 

As for the lawsuit the league settled just to not drag it along. Malcom Jenkins could've sued him and Eric Reid for Defamation and cease and desist on the subject as a whole for making inflammatory remarks and false statements on Jenkins. Jenkins tried to get Colin a part of the Players Coalition but the PC wanted an active player as the president. When all the attention went away from Colin and Eric to the coalition and what can be done with the NFL Colin stopped all contact with the PC. Jenkins tried to get through to CK's agent as well who also ghosted multiple people. 

So why didn't Malcom take Colin to Court? One he was the better person in that situation and just saw them as throwing a temper tantrum. And 2 him going after Colin does nothing but put a negative on the fight the players coalition is on. May I also remind you Eric Reid because of all of this kept going after Jenkins despite signing with the Panthers and got into an altercation pre game with Numerious Eagles players. Reid then tried to cheap shot Jenkins QB Carson Wentz and even the Announcers said something to the effect that Carolina needs to get him off the field before he does something stupid. Torrey Smith a former Teammate of Jenkins on Car then was trying to calm Reid down and Reid almost got into a physical altercation with Jenkins. Reid accursed Torrey Smith of not being a team player and continued to talk smack on Jenkins. Meanwhile Jenkins routinely said he was happy to see Eric Reid in the NFL and Colin should be on a team just making himself look like the better person in all of this with numerous players having his back around the league. 

Finally CK despite sucking kept asking for starter money and thinking he was ENTITLED TO A STARTING SPOT. Instead of saying hey I sucked this past year give me a 1 year prove it deal he decided to go the route of asking for too much money and a starting job. Now I can't say for sure this was intentional to help his later argument but if I'm a Judge I'm bringing up this and the GFs tweets as prime examples in court why his case is bad for him. 

So why was CK not  signed

1. His talent was godawful and the distractions off the field didn't warrant it 

2. Asked for too much money and guarantee starting spot despite his play

3. His poor work ethic, needing to be babied, not coachable, girl friends tweets 

4. Going after the NFLPA and one of their most Respective Players in Malcom Jenkins 

5. Essentially burning any and all bridges he had left in the NFL 

I think people forget 2,3, and 4. Especially Neesha's tweets among other things she's said in the past. Kapernick I really don't believe wanted to continue to play in the NFL. I'm all for the Social Justice movement, BLM etc Heck I can DM you my person Facebook and you can sift through it if you don't believe me. However what I see in Kaepernick is someone in over his head. He has a GF who's a known Locker room rat who's using him and his money and the minute the money is gone she's gone influencing him into stuff. I think it's nothing more then Virtue Signaling by him. I'm against anyone saying Players don't have a right to protest however I don't see this as a league blackballing a player.

The problem here is the whole situation there is a lot of key pieces involved and anyone can twist and turn any of them to fit their own agenda. Most of the people complaining for Kaepernick never watched a game or know very little about the league. People reporting on the situation giving football opinions who really have ZERO BUSINESS doing so. I mean how would you like it if you had people breathing down your neck telling you how to do your job who have zero knowledge of your job to begin with? Most of these media on both sides see an agenda. The right sees a perfect opportunity to put a military that they could careless about any war crimes it commits or their own soldiers hurt pretending to be all for everyone in the military and fake patriotism, then you got the Right media who loves to blow a lot of things up into "Oh thats racism man?" and grasping at straws and trying to cancel anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with them in the slightest. It doesn't allow anyone to be in the middle. It's you either with this or that side or against us mentality. 

I've said before I'm not hiring a player if I was in charge if his availability is an issue no matter how great he is. At the same opposite Side I'm also not signing a Colin Kaepernick who's distractions off the field outweigh what positives he brings on it 

Could you elaborate a little more here?

 

[matuski]

That’s an awful lot of words to avoid answering the simple question of why 20 backups obviously worse than Kaeprnick were signed to hold a clipboard, but he couldn’t even get a tryout. 

If Kaep was good enough to impact a game he would have been signed.

He wasnt, so 20 backups that wouldn't be a detriment to the team were signed.

Rocket science.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If Kaep was good enough to impact a game he would have been signed.

He wasnt, so 20 backups that wouldn't be a detriment to the team were signed.

Rocket science.

Except the flaw of this statement is that this is your projected opinion, not reality. It is merely your hypothesis, and not proven as fact.

it ain’t rocket science, it’s football. 
 

ETA: check the list of backups I put up earlier. 

now check Kaep’s career stats. Also acknowledge that he was hurt and surrounded by garbage for his last 2 seasons. 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaepCo00.htm

Objectively speaking, Kaepernick was a better football player than 80% of the backups in the NFL.

his “problem” was he cared about social justice, so the league blackballed him. 

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Colin and guys like him I have issues with. I was hoping and maybe I'll create a post on this when I got more time before the season, but Colin, Mike Vick, Lamar Jackson's of the world are already in their prime entering the league. This also shows why the "they didn't put enough talent around X" is a load of BS or "He wasn't coached right that year is as well.

The TLDR Version Explanation on these QBs: These guys in HS are usually the best athletes with the best arms strength wise. They are just told to go out and do their thing. Never really taught how to read defense pre and post snap and many of these schools are in win now or coach gets fired so they have zero time to develop the player. There were reports that the Eagles had Jason Kelce doing the QB protection calls when Mike Vick was with us because he had zero clue how to do it and the offensive West Coast playbook was too complicated for him. Thats just embarrassing I'm sorry. 

They get to college and there isn't much time to really develop the guy (especially if they come as a top recruit. This is the important time in a QBs development  where with Pre and post snap correctly learning to read defenses they get to see different looks and play against better talent. Now some of these college offenses are schemed to pad stats or leagues that pad offensive Numbers AKA Oklahoma and the Big 12. They still don't develop proper mechanics

So let's get to the NFL. For similar reasons when a guy reaches the majors in baseball and try and get them a new batting stance or better mechanics it's harder to get those things for a QB in the NFL especially one who may have play 8 yrs already from HS and all for yrs of college. It also falls on the athlete to be better. In Vick's case he had a terrible work ethic. In SF there was definitely concerns about Colins work ethic prior to the whole kneeling. Jay Glazer reported he was on an island all alone and I was told Harbaugh one of the issues he had in SF was how much the York's babied Kaepernick. He also slept with Aldon Smith's GF at the time and which caused the Training camp fight. I was told by a person close to the situation Smith wasn't let go because of off the field issues but Because the York's are trying to get everyone that's anti Kaepernick out of the building. They are babying the guy to death and it's sickening. Keep was also not doing his part to work better. 

Now yes talent around these guys matter which is why I believe these guys shouldn't be 1st round picks. These are QB who fit a team who maybe the team knows they can't afford to a franchise Long term QB anyway and might just be a good QB away from being a Contender AKA Baltimore Ravens is a great example with Lamar. We are already seeing decline in him as teams gather more tape. The 49ers had talent but unfortunately a lot of that talent around Keep that hid a lot of his faults was let go and never replaced. At the same time Kapernick was in a huge decline. Guys like Kaepernick had a shelf life in the nFL for 2-4 good seasons before they start to decline if they don't put the work in. After that they make really good spot starting back ups. It also doesn't help when said Org is babying the player and only wants to surround him with people who won't criticize him. It also doesn't help in half a season he played his last year he led the NFL in Yards lost per sacks, Fumbles lost by skilled position players and TO's by Skilled position players. His better stats were padded stats at end of Games when teams played prevent the 2nd half protecting a 4TD advantage. It also doesn't help that Colin has the record for worst QB statistical performance in Modern SB Era that year as well. Colin was on a steady decline and the 49ers knew that but unfortunately put themselves in a terrible contract. Colin had the top Rushing attack in the NFL or close to it the SB season and a top 3 defense that year as well which helps a whole lot. Lets not sit here and pretend Colin Miracoulously took this team to the SB. He played a horrible GB defense 

As for wh these other guys were signed. The NFL hires murders, rapist and drug dealers because their talent on the field for them outweighs the negative attention. Colin and his media distractions out weighed the talent he brought to teams. It also doesn't help that the Ravens were about to sign him when a Ravens PR person came in and said yeah Colins GF Neesha just called Ozzie Newsome a yes man to slave owner among other things. When the team asked Colin to tell his GF to delete the tweets and denounce her opinion he refused. Can't remember but I think the Dolphins cut a player because his wife made comments about the org around a similar time too. So these guys they may have sucked but they didn't bring unneeded distractions to the teams and org. 

As for the lawsuit the league settled just to not drag it along. Malcom Jenkins could've sued him and Eric Reid for Defamation and cease and desist on the subject as a whole for making inflammatory remarks and false statements on Jenkins. Jenkins tried to get Colin a part of the Players Coalition but the PC wanted an active player as the president. When all the attention went away from Colin and Eric to the coalition and what can be done with the NFL Colin stopped all contact with the PC. Jenkins tried to get through to CK's agent as well who also ghosted multiple people. 

So why didn't Malcom take Colin to Court? One he was the better person in that situation and just saw them as throwing a temper tantrum. And 2 him going after Colin does nothing but put a negative on the fight the players coalition is on. May I also remind you Eric Reid because of all of this kept going after Jenkins despite signing with the Panthers and got into an altercation pre game with Numerious Eagles players. Reid then tried to cheap shot Jenkins QB Carson Wentz and even the Announcers said something to the effect that Carolina needs to get him off the field before he does something stupid. Torrey Smith a former Teammate of Jenkins on Car then was trying to calm Reid down and Reid almost got into a physical altercation with Jenkins. Reid accursed Torrey Smith of not being a team player and continued to talk smack on Jenkins. Meanwhile Jenkins routinely said he was happy to see Eric Reid in the NFL and Colin should be on a team just making himself look like the better person in all of this with numerous players having his back around the league. 

Finally CK despite sucking kept asking for starter money and thinking he was ENTITLED TO A STARTING SPOT. Instead of saying hey I sucked this past year give me a 1 year prove it deal he decided to go the route of asking for too much money and a starting job. Now I can't say for sure this was intentional to help his later argument but if I'm a Judge I'm bringing up this and the GFs tweets as prime examples in court why his case is bad for him. 

So why was CK not  signed

1. His talent was godawful and the distractions off the field didn't warrant it 

2. Asked for too much money and guarantee starting spot despite his play

3. His poor work ethic, needing to be babied, not coachable, girl friends tweets 

4. Going after the NFLPA and one of their most Respective Players in Malcom Jenkins 

5. Essentially burning any and all bridges he had left in the NFL 

I think people forget 2,3, and 4. Especially Neesha's tweets among other things she's said in the past. Kapernick I really don't believe wanted to continue to play in the NFL. I'm all for the Social Justice movement, BLM etc Heck I can DM you my person Facebook and you can sift through it if you don't believe me. However what I see in Kaepernick is someone in over his head. He has a GF who's a known Locker room rat who's using him and his money and the minute the money is gone she's gone influencing him into stuff. I think it's nothing more then Virtue Signaling by him. I'm against anyone saying Players don't have a right to protest however I don't see this as a league blackballing a player.

The problem here is the whole situation there is a lot of key pieces involved and anyone can twist and turn any of them to fit their own agenda. Most of the people complaining for Kaepernick never watched a game or know very little about the league. People reporting on the situation giving football opinions who really have ZERO BUSINESS doing so. I mean how would you like it if you had people breathing down your neck telling you how to do your job who have zero knowledge of your job to begin with? Most of these media on both sides see an agenda. The right sees a perfect opportunity to put a military that they could careless about any war crimes it commits or their own soldiers hurt pretending to be all for everyone in the military and fake patriotism, then you got the Right media who loves to blow a lot of things up into "Oh thats racism man?" and grasping at straws and trying to cancel anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with them in the slightest. It doesn't allow anyone to be in the middle. It's you either with this or that side or against us mentality. 

I've said before I'm not hiring a player if I was in charge if his availability is an issue no matter how great he is. At the same opposite Side I'm also not signing a Colin Kaepernick who's distractions off the field outweigh what positives he brings on it 

Other than the terrible, easily disproven take about Lamar declining, this post is spot on. I'm not even sure Kaep wanted to play football. I agree completely with the causes he says he is championing but I feel like he intentionally torpedoed his relationship with the NFL because he knew that being blacklisted was ultimately better for the brand he was trying to build. Hard to be a martyr when you don't actually die. I don't agree that he was completely washed up but it eventually got a point where Kaep was radioactive to the NFL. His talent became irrelevant. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Other than the terrible, easily disproven take about Lamar declining, this post is spot on. I'm not even sure Kaep wanted to play football. I agree completely with the causes he says he is championing but I feel like he intentionally torpedoed his relationship with the NFL because he knew that being blacklisted was ultimately better for the brand he was trying to build. Hard to be a martyr when you don't actually die. I don't agree that he was completely washed up but it eventually got a point where Kaep was radioactive to the NFL. His talent became irrelevant. 

I find that theory difficult to believe.

So your contention is that as Kaep used his platform to raise awareness about police brutality, specifically against POC. you’re suggesting that in the face of rapidly increasing media coverage, (his entire goal of taking a knee), he wanted to...leave the platform he worked so hard to use so effectively at raising awareness?

Further, that he could raise more awareness by being blackballed from the league, and knew this & planned for it?

Sounds a little like a post hoc explanation for his being blackballed than the simple “the league blackballed him & he then used that to raise additional awareness”.

I’m a big Occam’s Razor guy, so to me the simplest way Kaep coulda raised more awareness was by continuing to play football, & taking a knee during the anthem. It was a movement that was growing & spreading to other teams.

He was most certainly burned out by the time the lawsuit happened, but I’m not inclined to believe he planned it all out that way, somehow prescient enough to see that 1. They’d blackball him & 2. That blackballing would be a publicity tool. That’s just way too complex of a scenario compared to describe what I saw go down. 

And let’s be honest...if it’s that obvious that a black player fighting for civil rights will be blackballed, the NFL has bigger problems than Kaepernick.

 

[matuski]

Except the flaw of this statement is that this is your projected opinion, not reality. It is merely your hypothesis, and not proven as fact.

it ain’t rocket science, it’s football. 
 

ETA: check the list of backups I put up earlier. 

now check Kaep’s career stats. Also acknowledge that he was hurt and surrounded by garbage for his last 2 seasons. 
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaepCo00.htm

Objectively speaking, Kaepernick was a better football player than 80% of the backups in the NFL.

his “problem” was he cared about social justice, so the league blackballed him. 

Not really opinion.

We have seen over and over again questionable characters signed and started and produced when the league thought they could help win games.  Even today.  Every single season there are unsigned QBs that are probably better than backups.. but they arent good enough to start and they arent good enough character guys to help the starter or develop the other backups.

The league didn't tink Kaep could.

So they didn't.  Objectively.  Proven fact.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not really opinion.

We have seen over and over again questionable characters signed and started and produced when the league thought they could help win games.  Even today.  Every single season there are unsigned QBs that are probably better than backups.. but they arent good enough to start and they arent good enough character guys to help the starter or develop the other backups.

The league didn't tink Kaep could.

So they didn't.  Objectively.  Proven fact.

No, facts are backed up by statistics. Kaep was statistically better than those other QBs

you seem to be confusing your opinions with facts. 

 

[matuski]

No, facts are backed up by statistics. Kaep was statistically better than those other QBs

you seem to be confusing your opinions with facts. 

Facts are backed up by facts.

The NFL signs players with all types of issues (murder, rape, drugs, abuse... anyone?) to help win.

They didn't sign Kaep.  Fact.

You seem to be confusing the fact with opinion.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Facts are backed up by facts.

The NFL signs players with all types of issues (murder anyone?) to help win.

They didn't sign Kaep.  Fact.

You seem to be confusing the fact with opinion.

I posted a link to Kaepernick’s career stats. I listed ~20 backup QBs he’s statistically better than.

And you replied with this, so I’m going to assume you aren’t a serious person and disengage. Have a nice evening. 

 

[matuski]

I posted a link to Kaepernick’s career stats. I listed ~20 backup QBs he’s statistically better than.

And you replied with this, so I’m going to assume you aren’t a serious person and disengage. Have a nice evening. 

I love the argument that Kaep should have been signed as a backup

Yea- lets sign a guy by @Hot Sauce Guy's own conspiracy minded theory ISNT GOOD ENOUGH TO START.... so we can distract the team with an attention whore on the sideline.

The NFL spoke.  Take your list of backups and shove it.  Statistically speaking.

eta - By your own argument he isn't good enough to back up 12 teams   Let's have a SERIOUS debate over it.

 

[matuski]

The craziest, kookiest theory left is the guy would be the 44th/45th best QB.  Love it. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yea- lets sign a guy by @Hot Sauce Guy's own conspiracy minded theory ISNT GOOD ENOUGH TO START...

I never said this. In the future, kindly use the quote feature to avoid misrepresentation like this.

I’m embarrassed for you. Putting you on ignore now.  

 

[matuski]

I never said this. In the future, kindly use the quote feature to avoid misrepresentation like this.

I’m embarrassed for you. Putting you on ignore now.  

I listed ~20 backup QBs he’s statistically better than.

Ignore is probably your best bet here.

 

[matuski]

Very clearly the league never missed a beat without Kaep.

They won't miss another beat without Tebow.

The preseason press is great, and welcomed by the league... but when it comes time for winning neither will be rostered, and for the same reason - they aren't good enough.

 

[Anarchy99]

Maybe I should check the Kaepernick thread for Tebow news. 

 

[DJackson10]

Other than the terrible, easily disproven take about Lamar declining, this post is spot on. I'm not even sure Kaep wanted to play football. I agree completely with the causes he says he is championing but I feel like he intentionally torpedoed his relationship with the NFL because he knew that being blacklisted was ultimately better for the brand he was trying to build. Hard to be a martyr when you don't actually die. I don't agree that he was completely washed up but it eventually got a point where Kaep was radioactive to the NFL. His talent became irrelevant. 

Yeah I'm all for the causes and such but I feel Kaep never was meaningful about it. I know a few NFL people and a few people who were close enough some SF guys. I've also had about 3-4 personal friends who were Colin's message me on social media privately. A lot of the talk I hear is Nessah the GF is very controlling and he just does whatever she tells him to do. Another rumor was she tried to get Aldon Smith to do this but he refused but that's unconfirmed. I will say Colin has gotten rid of many friends who were trying to help him believing the GF is too controlling and the relationship isn't good for him. He's at the point of you disagree with one thing he says he cuts you off. 

I've coached at a football camp for former NFL player Anthony Betch who has numerous former and current coaches and players involved. Off the record CK is not well liked by a lot of players in the NFL. Many were upset with him and his SF teammates didn't like how he was babied and disrespected veteran players. They were afraid of coming out and made to look bad by the black community as well as media and virtue Signalers and SJW crowd. I've heard a few say CK felt entitled as well. I know a few players respected his opinion and tried to have professional convo's with him trying to talk him out (basically saying Nessah is using him and this isn't the right way to go about this) but he rudely would brush them off. 

I was never a big CK fan but it's sad that we have people like this who control and take advantage of people. I've believed since Day 1 Keep intentionally sabotage his career. Just from the Press Conference at first he was clearly uncomfortable talking about it, using a lot of filler words and his body language. Not condemning the GF for her tweets, taking his ball and going home and other behavior towards the NFLPA? Yeah thats not signs of someone who clearly wants back in. Thats someone who says hey if I act like this, well it's better for my future brand then playing in the NFL. On top of that the ridiculous contract requests and guarantee being a starter? 

I will leave it at this. He's pulled the wool over so many people's eyes. It's a great con when you think about it though. Honestly if I was a proceeding judge over the NFL Cases I would've laughed CK and his people out of the court house and told them nice try. Colin got a ton of money in the case off of he said she said. Like I said Jenkins could've permanitely ended this guy but he chose to be the better person. Better than me because I would've been filing grievances against Colin the minute he and his agent opened their mouths about me if I had the proof Jenkins had. 

 

[DJackson10]

I find that theory difficult to believe.

So your contention is that as Kaep used his platform to raise awareness about police brutality, specifically against POC. you’re suggesting that in the face of rapidly increasing media coverage, (his entire goal of taking a knee), he wanted to...leave the platform he worked so hard to use so effectively at raising awareness?

Further, that he could raise more awareness by being blackballed from the league, and knew this & planned for it?

Sounds a little like a post hoc explanation for his being blackballed than the simple “the league blackballed him & he then used that to raise additional awareness”.

I’m a big Occam’s Razor guy, so to me the simplest way Kaep coulda raised more awareness was by continuing to play football, & taking a knee during the anthem. It was a movement that was growing & spreading to other teams.

He was most certainly burned out by the time the lawsuit happened, but I’m not inclined to believe he planned it all out that way, somehow prescient enough to see that 1. They’d blackball him & 2. That blackballing would be a publicity tool. That’s just way too complex of a scenario compared to describe what I saw go down. 

And let’s be honest...if it’s that obvious that a black player fighting for civil rights will be blackballed, the NFL has bigger problems than Kaepernick.

Kaepernick's off the field media attention was more of a distraction then his on field play. We've seen numerious players get second chances with off the field actions. I just think your opinion is a lot of BS especially when the Kaepernick Crowd isn't complaining about these guys who get arrested constantly are then signed to other teams. To me and others it looks nothing more then Virtue Signaling. 

Look you clearly have a strong bias/opinion on this subject and honestly I'm not gonna waste hours on end on this to the point I might get sent to TO or others do. Not everything is as black and white here as you are making it. You CLEARLY IGNORED my reasons such as his Girlfriends tweets, and all though conveniently though. 

So I'm just gonna say We'll just agree to disagree on this subject. Obviously your opinion here is quite strong and no one is gonna be able to change that

 

[DJackson10]

Not really opinion.

We have seen over and over again questionable characters signed and started and produced when the league thought they could help win games.  Even today.  Every single season there are unsigned QBs that are probably better than backups.. but they arent good enough to start and they arent good enough character guys to help the starter or develop the other backups.

The league didn't tink Kaep could.

So they didn't.  Objectively.  Proven fact.

This whole argument by Hot sauce is pretty much BS when the CK crowd also isn't going after the NFL signing guys with questionable character who are good. It's always "lets go after the easy targets like Tim Tebow or a really horrible football player like Connor Rush." 

A lot of the people though aren't really football fans and are just virtue Signalers jumping on whatever flavor of the day someone wants to accuse them for. Like I said I'm all for the cause but Jesus when you have People like CK who I believe was never doing this for the right reasons and the the crowd that defends him, it just makes that fight for the true fight much much harder. Its the boy who cried wolf too many times 

 

[DJackson10]

No, facts are backed up by statistics. Kaep was statistically better than those other QBs

you seem to be confusing your opinions with facts. 

I know I said I was done but I wanted to clearly point this out I talked about this already 

I just told you why his stats looked better. He was stat padding in games where defenses were playing prevent the whole 2nd half since SF was down by 4TDs routinely. Easy to look great when the Defense isn't trying. That last year he had THE WORST STATISTICAL QB GAME OF ANY QB IN THE MODERN SB ERA and led the league in Turnovers, sacks and yards lost by sacks. 14TDs or whatever to 4-5 INTs in half a season isn't great for teams wanting to win games and most of those TD's were accumulated in garbage time. 

THOSE ARE FACTS TOO. Bottom half of the league in production. 

How good was CK really his final year? You might be shocked how bad it really was

 

[DJackson10]

Very clearly the league never missed a beat without Kaep.

They won't miss another beat without Tebow.

The preseason press is great, and welcomed by the league... but when it comes time for winning neither will be rostered, and for the same reason - they aren't good enough.

Gut feeling says ego of Urban Meyer has him on the roster. 

I'll play devils advocate here with the two QBs

Had Tim done this at a younger age and reading how JAX plans to use him he is/was athletic enough for that role. Kaepernick I don't think ever was as he was never big enough to handle it. Also you are talking about 2 completely different character individuals. One guy truly does everything he can to win and tried everything. Meanwhile you had Kaepernick reportedly showing up late to meetings, not studying game film etc. 

I'm not saying you are wrong in the whole post but I think Tebow would have more options in terms of playing just on his will and athletic ability size which was better then CK's. Plus JAX is putting him in a role he played Freshman year at Florida 

Maybe Tebow makes it maybe not but the one think this guy has over CK is his passion to play and try to get better and I don't think anyone will fault a guy for that. And given how many roster spots NFL teams have in the pre season is he really taking a spot away from anyone right now? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Kaepernick's off the field media attention was more of a distraction then his on field play.

in your opinion. 

We've seen numerious players get second chances with off the field actions. I just think your opinion is a lot of BS especially when the Kaepernick Crowd isn't complaining about these guys who get arrested constantly are then signed to other teams. To me and others it looks nothing more then Virtue Signaling. 

 

why’s it so hard for you to admit he was blackballed? 

im not “virtue signaling”, I’m making factual observations & calling you on your bull****. 

Look you clearly have a strong bias/opinion on this subject and honestly I'm not gonna waste hours on end on this to the point I might get sent to TO or others do.

no, I don’t. I just know what went down and feel like an accurate record should he presented. You generalized/called anyone who stood up for Kaep “whiners” and made factually incorrect statements about why he was not even given a tryout as a backup, much less a starter. 

if you don’t like getting fact checked, stick to the facts. It’s pretty simple. 

Projecting that I’m somehow biased or emotional about this only serves to weaken your already weak argument. 

Not everything is as black and white here as you are making it. You CLEARLY IGNORED my reasons such as his Girlfriends tweets, and all though conveniently though. 

So I'm just gonna say We'll just agree to disagree on this subject. Obviously your opinion here is quite strong and no one is gonna be able to change that

His girlfriend’s tweets didn’t stop Kaep from getting a tryout anywhere in the NFL. The NFL blackballing him did. 

But hey, at least you are agreeing that it was his politics and not his lack of ability that got him blackballed. I mean, you didn’t mean to, but we got there anyway. Probably because one can only dance around that reality with projection & opinion-based reasoning for so long before the truth becomes apparent. 

 

[FBG Moderator]

Maybe you should read first, then respond. It’s a much less embarrassing way for you to participate than whatever this was.

Please be more cool to posters here. 

 

[wgoldsph]

That last year he had THE WORST STATISTICAL QB GAME OF ANY QB IN THE MODERN SB ERA

Even worse than the one Nathan Peterman start where he threw for a billion ints? 

Worse than 2009 Derek Anderson going 2-17, 24 yards and an int?

Worse than 2003 Tim Hasselbeck going 6-26, 56 yards, 4 INTs?

Worse than 2012 Tebow going 6-22, 60 yards, and an int?

Worse than any of the other terrible games I'm copy pasting from this reddit thread?  

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/28zihu/what_was_statistically_the_worst_game_an_nfl/

Worse than all these 0 qbr games on wiki?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_quarterbacks_who_have_posted_a_passer_rating_of_zero

Or maybe, maaaaybe, you're just biased and need to admit that Kaep should never have been black balled from football.

 

[Anarchy99]

I know I said I was done but I wanted to clearly point this out I talked about this already 

I just told you why his stats looked better. He was stat padding in games where defenses were playing prevent the whole 2nd half since SF was down by 4TDs routinely. Easy to look great when the Defense isn't trying. That last year he had THE WORST STATISTICAL QB GAME OF ANY QB IN THE MODERN SB ERA and led the league in Turnovers, sacks and yards lost by sacks. 14TDs or whatever to 4-5 INTs in half a season isn't great for teams wanting to win games and most of those TD's were accumulated in garbage time. 

THOSE ARE FACTS TOO. Bottom half of the league in production. 

How good was CK really his final year? You might be shocked how bad it really was

Against my better judgement (as this is a TIM TEBOW thread after all), numbers can be used to prove or disprove just about anything.

In Kaerpernick's final year in SF, he basically played heavy minutes in 10 games with the Niners going 1-9. He had two games with passer rating under 80 . . . one at 77.8 and one at 56.4.

In Tom Brady's final year in NE, he had 5 games with passer ratings under 80 . . . 70.8, 67.3, 63.3, 45.9, and 59.4 in their one playoff loss. TB12 over his last 8 games had a 78.2 passer rating. People will say "but Brady had no one to throw to and his receivers were terrible."

Well, CK was throwing to Jeremy Kerley, Quinton Patton, Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, et al. But Brady gets the benefit of the doubt as the GOAT and Kaep gets nothing for being a PITA.

The point being, anyone can argue just about anything and put forth statistical evidence that the world is both round and flat.

 

[Streetduck]

 

why’s it so hard for you to admit he was blackballed? 

im not “virtue signaling”, I’m making factual observations & calling you on your bull****. 

Blackballed? Kaep was given the chance to play just not at what he thought he should be paid. Big difference, what's Tebow's paycheck?

 

[DJackson10]

in your opinion. 

 

why’s it so hard for you to admit he was blackballed? 

im not “virtue signaling”, I’m making factual observations & calling you on your bull****. 

no, I don’t. I just know what went down and feel like an accurate record should he presented. You generalized/called anyone who stood up for Kaep “whiners” and made factually incorrect statements about why he was not even given a tryout as a backup, much less a starter. 

if you don’t like getting fact checked, stick to the facts. It’s pretty simple. 

Projecting that I’m somehow biased or emotional about this only serves to weaken your already weak argument. 

His girlfriend’s tweets didn’t stop Kaep from getting a tryout anywhere in the NFL. The NFL blackballing him did. 

But hey, at least you are agreeing that it was his politics and not his lack of ability that got him blackballed. I mean, you didn’t mean to, but we got there anyway. Probably because one can only dance around that reality with projection & opinion-based reasoning for so long before the truth becomes apparent. 

I'm not saying it was just his politics. I also heard he wasn't the best teammate either and was constantly babied and wasn't very coachable. There's a ton of factors here not always so black and white. I also gave you a link to an article that showed how bad he was that year. 

 

[DJackson10]

Against my better judgement (as this is a TIM TEBOW thread after all), numbers can be used to prove or disprove just about anything.

In Kaerpernick's final year in SF, he basically played heavy minutes in 10 games with the Niners going 1-9. He had two games with passer rating under 80 . . . one at 77.8 and one at 56.4.

In Tom Brady's final year in NE, he had 5 games with passer ratings under 80 . . . 70.8, 67.3, 63.3, 45.9, and 59.4 in their one playoff loss. TB12 over his last 8 games had a 78.2 passer rating. People will say "but Brady had no one to throw to and his receivers were terrible."

Well, CK was throwing to Jeremy Kerley, Quinton Patton, Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, et al. But Brady gets the benefit of the doubt as the GOAT and Kaep gets nothing for being a PITA.

The point being, anyone can argue just about anything and put forth statistical evidence that the world is both round and flat.

Good to great QBs make the guys around them better. So IMHO that's not an excuse for QBs. You either have the talent or you don't. When the pressure was on he was horrible. It's fair to say and if you go back and watch the games yes many of CK's numbers were padded in garbage time. I think there was a game he barely had 50 yds passing in the first half and ended it with almost 300 yds and 2 or 3 TDs but had like 2 INTS as well. Most people would say looking at the boxscore CK played well. But if you look again at HT they were down by 21 and the 2nd Half the Opp played prevent 

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I've been out of town for a few days, and I'm so confused... Did the Jags sign Kaepernick to play TE, too?

 

[wgoldsph]

Good to great QBs make the guys around them better. So IMHO that's not an excuse for QBs. You either have the talent or you don't. When the pressure was on he was horrible. It's fair to say and if you go back and watch the games yes many of CK's numbers were padded in garbage time. I think there was a game he barely had 50 yds passing in the first half and ended it with almost 300 yds and 2 or 3 TDs but had like 2 INTS as well. Most people would say looking at the boxscore CK played well. But if you look again at HT they were down by 21 and the 2nd Half the Opp played prevent 

Love how this went from WORST STATISTICAL QB GAME OF ANY IN THE MODERN ERA to he had a really bad half and got garbage time numbers.  Totally ignored my post proving you wrong with stats to push the narrative that he wasn't liked.

You remember Terrell Owens?  The guy was locker room cancer.  Even when his teams were good he still got into fights with everyone, specifically his qbs.  Had a number of off the field issues too. Still managed to play a long career despite many injuries.  The difference between Owens and other off the field trouble makers is that nobody quite threatened the NFL's bottom line the same way Kaepernick did by kneeling in protest.

I've been out of town for a few days, and I'm so confused... Did the Jags sign Kaepernick to play TE, too?

No, but in reality they didn't sign Tebow to play te either.   They either signed him to fail at te or "inspire" guys at practice.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If Tim Tebow was truly such a “good guy” he would not be taking a camp spot from a guy that really deserves it. What other 34 year old player gets a fresh start at a new position after they washed out of the league years ago?

This is all about his ego.

 

[Cjw_55106]

If Tim Tebow was truly such a “good guy” he would not be taking a camp spot from a guy that really deserves it. What other 34 year old player gets a fresh start at a new position after they washed out of the league years ago?

This is all about his ego.

This is nonsense. Over 2800 players are in NFL training camps. Are you actually arguing that he is taking away someone's opportunity? 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This is nonsense. Over 2800 players are in NFL training camps. Are you actually arguing that he is taking away someone's opportunity? 

yes - his snaps and his slot on the roster is taking away from a more deserving player.

You can list the reasons how he "earned" his training camp invite when you get a chance.

 

[wgoldsph]

This is nonsense. Over 2800 players are in NFL training camps. Are you actually arguing that he is taking away someone's opportunity? 

There's roughly about 16,000 draft eligible ncaa players every year.   So, yes, Tebow definitely is taking away one of their spots for his vanity comeback tour. 

 

[DJackson10]

Love how this went from WORST STATISTICAL QB GAME OF ANY IN THE MODERN ERA to he had a really bad half and got garbage time numbers.  Totally ignored my post proving you wrong with stats to push the narrative that he wasn't liked.

You remember Terrell Owens?  The guy was locker room cancer.  Even when his teams were good he still got into fights with everyone, specifically his qbs.  Had a number of off the field issues too. Still managed to play a long career despite many injuries.  The difference between Owens and other off the field trouble makers is that nobody quite threatened the NFL's bottom line the same way Kaepernick did by kneeling in protest.

I mean clearly his GF calling an NFL owner a Slave Trade and basically calling one of the most respected African American GMs in the sport essentially an Uncle T had nothing to do with this and when Colin was asked to rebuke he didn't. There is too many signs that tell me Colin wasn't interested in playing again and just used the Movement to get his own bottom 

And yes he was hot garbage his last year. He incredible bad. The guy asked for starter money and a guaranteed starting job in FA while putting up the god awful stats. Go re read the link I posted that listed he was the worst if not one of the worst statistical QBs in almost every category that. He made ridiculous demands on his next contract. It was even reported that his agents told the CFL and XFL that it would take 20M to sign CK so they said NO THANKS AS WELL. 

Yes I remember TO very well. Despite helping my team to a SB he equally divided my team and got in a fight with a very well respected retired former Eagle in the locker room. Andy didn't put up with his nonsense and eventually let him go which more of these teams need to do for these players

I think the issue here isn't that the league didn't take Colin Kaepernick and they are racist for most here. I the issue should be more with why are poor character players no matter their talent still be hired over others? 

 

[DJackson10]

If Tim Tebow was truly such a “good guy” he would not be taking a camp spot from a guy that really deserves it. What other 34 year old player gets a fresh start at a new position after they washed out of the league years ago?

This is all about his ego.

If only people were this upset about Kareem Hunt taking a roster spot from someone more deserving. Tell me again how beating the absolute crap out a female DESERVES a roster spot? 

 

[DJackson10]

There's roughly about 16,000 draft eligible ncaa players every year.   So, yes, Tebow definitely is taking away one of their spots for his vanity comeback tour. 

If only we were this concerned about guys like Vick and Kareem Hunt taking roster spots away from these kids. Instead we are worried about a great human being who's never been arrested or had any legal problems. But hey we will be silent about wife and women beaters and a guy who killed dogs who couldn't win illegal dog fights when they take roster spots away. 

This is my biggest problem with this sort of argument. We're concerned about a guy like Tebow but always stay silent when guys who truly shouldn't be in these sports leagues are given chance after chance after chance. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If only people were this upset about Kareem Hunt taking a roster spot from someone more deserving. Tell me again how beating the absolute crap out a female DESERVES a roster spot? 

Well I did say exactly that so you got me - good work Columbo.

Frankly I don’t get how anyone can even watch football with all the children starving.

 

[wgoldsph]

I mean clearly his GF calling an NFL owner a Slave Trade and basically calling one of the most respected African American GMs in the sport essentially an Uncle T had nothing to do with this and when Colin was asked to rebuke he didn't. There is too many signs that tell me Colin wasn't interested in playing again and just used the Movement to get his own bottom 

And yes he was hot garbage his last year. He incredible bad. The guy asked for starter money and a guaranteed starting job in FA while putting up the god awful stats. Go re read the link I posted that listed he was the worst if not one of the worst statistical QBs in almost every category that. He made ridiculous demands on his next contract. It was even reported that his agents told the CFL and XFL that it would take 20M to sign CK so they said NO THANKS AS WELL. 

Yes I remember TO very well. Despite helping my team to a SB he equally divided my team and got in a fight with a very well respected retired former Eagle in the locker room. Andy didn't put up with his nonsense and eventually let him go which more of these teams need to do for these players

I think the issue here isn't that the league didn't take Colin Kaepernick and they are racist for most here. I the issue should be more with why are poor character players no matter their talent still be hired over others? 

You keep bringing up Kaepernick's gf.  Who gives a ####?  Does she play football?  Is she not allowed to say whatever she wants or does everything that she says have to go through him.  When I dated a girl who was an idiot in my early 20s did that mean all of her opinions were mine?  Should I have been kicked out of college because of the things she said?  When my friends would tell me that she was awful and I'd defend her did that mean that I supported all of her terrible opinions?

Stop talking about Kaepernick's girlfriend.  Nobody cares and she is entirely irrelevant to the man himself.

Another irrelevant thing is your opinion on Kaepernick not being interested in playing again.  Because it doesn't line up with the fact that he wanted to be a starter.  

In 2017 Trevor Seimain was the starting qb out of camp for Denver.  Jay Cutler was pulled out of retirement to be a starter.  DeShone Kizer was so bad on the Browns they had 0 wins!  Are you seriously arguing that he wasn't better than any of these three starters at the same point in time?   Or that he wasn't as big an in person **** head as Jay Cutler?  Cause I've got a whole forest of bridges to sell you.

If only we were this concerned about guys like Vick and Kareem Hunt taking roster spots away from these kids. Instead we are worried about a great human being who's never been arrested or had any legal problems. But hey we will be silent about wife and women beaters and a guy who killed dogs who couldn't win illegal dog fights when they take roster spots away. 

This is my biggest problem with this sort of argument. We're concerned about a guy like Tebow but always stay silent when guys who truly shouldn't be in these sports leagues are given chance after chance after chance. 

Who said we weren't concerned about these guys?  I've never liked Vick since the dog fighting thing.  And I've been talking trash about the horrible scum that is former giants kicker Josh Brown who literally got away with beating his wife during probowl weekend.

But here's the thing - there's going back to my 16,000 ncaa draft eligible kids, you're telling me that there's not one of them who isn't a genuinely good person who does everything they can to help society while not being out of football for over five years and in his thirties?  A kid who deserves that chance more? 

I loved Tebow in the day.  He was great to root for.   But his time is over.  That shot belongs to someone else.

 

[Cjw_55106]

yes - his snaps and his slot on the roster is taking away from a more deserving player.

You can list the reasons how he "earned" his training camp invite when you get a chance.

The powers that be want him there. There really is no other reason needed. If you have a specific player in mind that you think is getting screwed because of this, go ahead and list him.

 

[Anarchy99]

Will there be similar outrage over Brandon Jacobs should he take up a training camp roster spot somewhere? He last played football in 2013 (as a running back), and is attempting to return to football at 38 years old . . . as a defensive end.

 

[wgoldsph]

Will there be similar outrage over Brandon Jacobs should he take up a training cap roster spot somewhere? He last played football in 2013 (as a running back), and is attempting to return to football at 38 years old . . . as a defensive end.

Whaaaaat?  Jacobs was never an elite rb because he ran too high.  Are we expected to believe he's developed quality bend while out of football?

 

[rockaction]

I just want to wade right into the Kaepernick controversy and say that when your high-profile significant other is calling the NFL a slave trade and then called a GM that showed interest in him an "Uncle Tom," you're absolutely going to get blowback about signing him. As for being blackballed? That's a very hard thing to do. It's hard to herd the thirty-two owners together for anything but profits. I sincerely doubt, even as cynical as I am, that Kaepernick was truly blackballed in the proper sense of the term.

He was better than a lot of the guys that stuck around, but they weren't holding up flaming bags of dog poop for the owners to to stomp on repeatedly while paying him a nice salary at the same time their foot burned and stank. The brand he brought to the public eye, while successful with a lot of downtrodden folks, was toxic to those that preferred a status quo, a status quo the billionaires that run the NFL certainly crave. Kaep's presence was, suffice it to say, a bad fit for all involved. He torpedoed himself with the off-the-field stuff like the pig socks and the girlfriend and the militancy that went with all of it. This all happened before the summer of the world's discontent with America's official treatment of Afro-Americans, so one is given pause thinking about what any enterprising owner or GM was up against as far as public opinion went.

And it doesn't matter if in the end George Floyd happened and the NFL basically said that Kaep was right; his brand never would fly -- then, or even today, frankly. And if I may digress a little: If anything, today his brand would get co-opted by stealth marketing and stealth branding (whereby huge corporations give one the access and dollars to huge "independent" clothing lines, etc.), the other serious irony behind the activist self. But that's neither here nor there, really.

TL;DR: He wasn't blackballed. The stridency in his positions gave the world pause, and the owners fits about what to do with him.

 

[rockaction]

Whaaaaat?  Jacobs was never an elite rb because he ran too high.  Are we expected to believe he's developed quality bend while out of football?

What's his three-cone and ten-yard split looking like? I won't begrudge a dude anything.

I don't begrudge Tebow for trying to hang on. I think he might feel like he missed his true calling. I disagree with Dr. Octopus: It should be the team's decision to invite him or not. His presence there doesn't determine whether he's a good, altruistic guy. We all follow our dreams to the ultimate detriment of others when it comes to exclusive positions, whatever they may be.

I'm surprisingly not on the side of three people I usually agree with in threads, but these are my honest opinions.