Joe Summer
Footballguy
I don't see him getting benched unless he starts putting up Ryan Leaf-type numbers and the home crowd actually starts calling for Brady Quinn.Denver is going to see this through to the bitter end.
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Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (2 Viewers)
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FavreCo
Footballguy
They really need to leave the guy out there long enough for SD and the NYJets to destroy him and silence the tebowners forever.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That Green Bay game was pretty awful until garbage time; that's how Tebow got to start...
TSB-Rollin
Footballguy
I agree with you 99%. I have mentioned the shotgun situationt multiple times on our podcast and was written about here:Sportscasters At TSB Battle Over Tim Tebow In Their Sports Podcast
He definitely doesn't fit as a prototypical quarterback, by any means, from what we have seen thus far. He does seem to have trouble making the correct reads and having everyone spread out and in shotgun will help that situation. A lot of people like to say that he gets all his numbers in trash time. I consider trash time to be when the opponent is running prevent defense. Houston and San Diego last year, along with Miami this year... they weren't playing prevent. What changed was that Tebow was running a hurry-up offense from the shotgun - just like he did at Florida. That is where he is comfortable. When you have a full offseason to get him up-to-speed in this vanilla offense, maybe he can be effective then. But for now, if Denver actually wants to win (and I'm beginning to wonder), they need to do what Shnikies (love the Tommy Boy reference, btw) said and go 100% shotgun. Not to say you're wrong, but where did you get 79.7% from? That seems kind of high to me, but I could be wrong. Either way, as you said, it should be 100%.
I like the Wonderlic and it's a tried and true method of finding out whether or not a quarterback is mentally capable of playing at the NFL level - it isn't perfect, though. Tim Tebow, reportedly, scored a 22 out of 50. In comparison, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each scored 15. Matt Leinart also scored a 35, Brian Griese a 39, Alex Smith a 40... definitely not perfect. The more accurate assessment is the 26/27/60 rule, but that isn't even perfect - as proven by Cam Newton. He failed the rule because he only played in 14 games in college. On the flip side, Matt Leinert passed this rule. It isn't perfect, but much closer than the Wonderlic alone.
People can complain all they want about Tebow, but there are only three choices in Denver - Tebow, Orton, or Quinn. That said, let's take a look at the 3 Denver quarterbacks and put the 26/27/60 rule to work.
Tim Tebow - Wonderlic = 22 / Starts = 41 (Played in 55) / Completion Percentage = 66.45%
Kyle Orton - Wonderlic = 26 / Starts = 37 / Completion Percentage = 60.7%
Brady Quinn - Wonderlic = 29 / Starts = 48 / Completion Percentage = 58.9%
Pretty close playing field with these guys. Yes, Kyle Orton is the only one to pass, but look at Tebow's completion percentage running the spread.... not too shabby. Combine that with being a "winner" and I give the edge to Tebow. And yes, I am well-aware I made a point for the other side.
I blasted the guy in college and it blew my mind when Denver took him in the first round. However, I have gotten so tired of hearing the same regurgitated crap about him, I have become an avid Tim Tebow supporter. Maybe it's Meril Hodge's analysis of his horrific accuracy, that everyone seemed to latch on to. Maybe it's what I have seen in the games he played in 2010 and 2011. Maybe it's just to make people mad and start a ruckus. Whatever the reason, I support the guy to the end. Consider me the Skip Bayless of TSB, on the subject.
shnikies
Footballguy
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/01/shotgun-stats-say-broncos-molding-offense-specifically-for-tebow/10503/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitterI agree with you 99%. I have mentioned the shotgun situationt multiple times on our podcast and was written about here:Sportscasters At TSB Battle Over Tim Tebow In Their Sports Podcast
He definitely doesn't fit as a prototypical quarterback, by any means, from what we have seen thus far. He does seem to have trouble making the correct reads and having everyone spread out and in shotgun will help that situation. A lot of people like to say that he gets all his numbers in trash time. I consider trash time to be when the opponent is running prevent defense. Houston and San Diego last year, along with Miami this year... they weren't playing prevent. What changed was that Tebow was running a hurry-up offense from the shotgun - just like he did at Florida. That is where he is comfortable. When you have a full offseason to get him up-to-speed in this vanilla offense, maybe he can be effective then. But for now, if Denver actually wants to win (and I'm beginning to wonder), they need to do what Shnikies (love the Tommy Boy reference, btw) said and go 100% shotgun. Not to say you're wrong, but where did you get 79.7% from? That seems kind of high to me, but I could be wrong. Either way, as you said, it should be 100%.
I like the Wonderlic and it's a tried and true method of finding out whether or not a quarterback is mentally capable of playing at the NFL level - it isn't perfect, though. Tim Tebow, reportedly, scored a 22 out of 50. In comparison, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each scored 15. Matt Leinart also scored a 35, Brian Griese a 39, Alex Smith a 40... definitely not perfect. The more accurate assessment is the 26/27/60 rule, but that isn't even perfect - as proven by Cam Newton. He failed the rule because he only played in 14 games in college. On the flip side, Matt Leinert passed this rule. It isn't perfect, but much closer than the Wonderlic alone.
People can complain all they want about Tebow, but there are only three choices in Denver - Tebow, Orton, or Quinn. That said, let's take a look at the 3 Denver quarterbacks and put the 26/27/60 rule to work.
Tim Tebow - Wonderlic = 22 / Starts = 41 (Played in 55) / Completion Percentage = 66.45%
Kyle Orton - Wonderlic = 26 / Starts = 37 / Completion Percentage = 60.7%
Brady Quinn - Wonderlic = 29 / Starts = 48 / Completion Percentage = 58.9%
Pretty close playing field with these guys. Yes, Kyle Orton is the only one to pass, but look at Tebow's completion percentage running the spread.... not too shabby. Combine that with being a "winner" and I give the edge to Tebow. And yes, I am well-aware I made a point for the other side.
I blasted the guy in college and it blew my mind when Denver took him in the first round. However, I have gotten so tired of hearing the same regurgitated crap about him, I have become an avid Tim Tebow supporter. Maybe it's Meril Hodge's analysis of his horrific accuracy, that everyone seemed to latch on to. Maybe it's what I have seen in the games he played in 2010 and 2011. Maybe it's just to make people mad and start a ruckus. Whatever the reason, I support the guy to the end. Consider me the Skip Bayless of TSB, on the subject.
fatness
Footballguy
Until they begin to lose the locker room by putting a guy out there on a weekly basis who the other players know doesn't give them the best chance to win. I don't know if any of that grumbling has started yet or not.There are other players on the team besides Tebow, after all.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I know what you mean.I would not call myself an "avid supporter" but I have been a FF believer (largely based on what he did the end of last year and 2 weeks ago).
I heard it on the radio - someone on ESPN radio so perplexed with how this guy won the game it was almost funny. It was like he was complimenting and insulting him at the same time and I don't even know how you do that.
Then there was someone on the NFL channel lambasting him for his late completion to Fells inside the 10 which led to the winning scores and the commentator was sputtering as he explained how awful this completed, clutch, near game winning pass was.
And yes, Hodge, and now Cowher. X100.
Tebow makes a mockery of the game right? Guess what folks this glorified game of foot-ball is still rugby at its heart; move the ball forward behind the scrum with the added advantage of throwing the ball forward and it does not matter how it happens. And then do that across the goal line more than the other team.
He is 2-3 as Denver starter. Denver is 4-14 when he is not the starter.
massraider
Footballguy
Tebow doesn't make a mockery of the game. He makes a mockery of people that believe he can be a long-term viable NFL starter.
TSB-Rollin
Footballguy
Good article! Thanks for that!http://blogs.denverp..._medium=twitterI agree with you 99%. I have mentioned the shotgun situationt multiple times on our podcast and was written about here:Sportscasters At TSB Battle Over Tim Tebow In Their Sports Podcast
He definitely doesn't fit as a prototypical quarterback, by any means, from what we have seen thus far. He does seem to have trouble making the correct reads and having everyone spread out and in shotgun will help that situation. A lot of people like to say that he gets all his numbers in trash time. I consider trash time to be when the opponent is running prevent defense. Houston and San Diego last year, along with Miami this year... they weren't playing prevent. What changed was that Tebow was running a hurry-up offense from the shotgun - just like he did at Florida. That is where he is comfortable. When you have a full offseason to get him up-to-speed in this vanilla offense, maybe he can be effective then. But for now, if Denver actually wants to win (and I'm beginning to wonder), they need to do what Shnikies (love the Tommy Boy reference, btw) said and go 100% shotgun. Not to say you're wrong, but where did you get 79.7% from? That seems kind of high to me, but I could be wrong. Either way, as you said, it should be 100%.
I like the Wonderlic and it's a tried and true method of finding out whether or not a quarterback is mentally capable of playing at the NFL level - it isn't perfect, though. Tim Tebow, reportedly, scored a 22 out of 50. In comparison, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each scored 15. Matt Leinart also scored a 35, Brian Griese a 39, Alex Smith a 40... definitely not perfect. The more accurate assessment is the 26/27/60 rule, but that isn't even perfect - as proven by Cam Newton. He failed the rule because he only played in 14 games in college. On the flip side, Matt Leinert passed this rule. It isn't perfect, but much closer than the Wonderlic alone.
People can complain all they want about Tebow, but there are only three choices in Denver - Tebow, Orton, or Quinn. That said, let's take a look at the 3 Denver quarterbacks and put the 26/27/60 rule to work.
Tim Tebow - Wonderlic = 22 / Starts = 41 (Played in 55) / Completion Percentage = 66.45%
Kyle Orton - Wonderlic = 26 / Starts = 37 / Completion Percentage = 60.7%
Brady Quinn - Wonderlic = 29 / Starts = 48 / Completion Percentage = 58.9%
Pretty close playing field with these guys. Yes, Kyle Orton is the only one to pass, but look at Tebow's completion percentage running the spread.... not too shabby. Combine that with being a "winner" and I give the edge to Tebow. And yes, I am well-aware I made a point for the other side.
I blasted the guy in college and it blew my mind when Denver took him in the first round. However, I have gotten so tired of hearing the same regurgitated crap about him, I have become an avid Tim Tebow supporter. Maybe it's Meril Hodge's analysis of his horrific accuracy, that everyone seemed to latch on to. Maybe it's what I have seen in the games he played in 2010 and 2011. Maybe it's just to make people mad and start a ruckus. Whatever the reason, I support the guy to the end. Consider me the Skip Bayless of TSB, on the subject.
TSB-Rollin
Footballguy
If you're wondering how you do that, refer to Brett Favre's comments on Aaron Rodgers.
Exactly. Who cares how it gets done, as long as it gets done. 100% fast-paced shotgun, with a lot of no-huddle. That's how you win with Tebow - PERIOD. Just do it Denver!And there it is.
Yeah, I'm tired of the same ol' crap from all the analysts that refuse to give him any credit. Plenty of quarterbacks throw plenty of bad passes in a game. Every one of Tebow's is poked and prodded more than a Vegas call-girl. It's ridiculous. No it isn't always pretty. No they aren't always on target. But he throw some really good ones in there too (refer to Miami game in 4th quarter).
massraider
Footballguy
I know, it's shameful they way they all gang up on him.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Clayton then opined that Sofia Vergara is sexy and bacon tastes good.
fatness
Footballguy
Perhaps a league where everyone gets a medal would be more appropriate for him?
TSB-Rollin
Footballguy
Yes, it is. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold back on bashing anyone that deserves it. I just think it's way too early in his career to gang up on him. Not everyone can jump into the league like Cam Newton. If he was a big d bag like Russell or Leaf, I would join the crowd. I give good people extra time before I rain in on their parade.
massraider
Footballguy
This is the reason they invented this emoticon: :whoosh:
TSB-Rollin
Footballguy
HAHA! Good one! That's totally not what I'm saying, though. Matt Ryan was expected to explode this year, having Roddy and Julio, but he hasn't. Frankly, it hasn't been pretty. Brees came off a huge performance the prior week to give a not-so-breeslike performance this past Sunday. Tom Brady? Yeah... he didn't have a great day either. Sanchez? Flacco? Quite a few bad games this year. But Tim Tebow comes back in the 4th quarter of the Miami game TO GET THE WIIN and gets bashed for his play in the first 55 minutes of the game. Then he gets ripped up by a team that has been touted as one of the best throughout the season, with one of the best defensive lines in the league... going against a 2-win team with the youngest offensive line (and one of the worst) in the league... "Oh. Everyone's analysis was correct!" Give me a break...
duaneok66
Footballguy
wow - I didn't know QBs got free passes for playing like crap in 92% of a game against a winless team - what were they thinking??
az_prof
Footballguy
Peyton Manning also does best when he plays in a shotgun, spread offense. Is that because he "isn't very smart"? With all due respect, but making a judgement on a player's ability to read defenses and make smart decisions after 5 career starts is really premature. I can remember Brett Favre's first year as a starter--he made a lot of mistakes and forced alot of balls that resulted in INTs. He turned out to become a pretty good QB. People who think they can make these kinds of judgements on such a small body of work are either naive or excessively arrogant.I agree with you 99%. I have mentioned the shotgun situationt multiple times on our podcast and was written about here:Sportscasters At TSB Battle Over Tim Tebow In Their Sports Podcast
He definitely doesn't fit as a prototypical quarterback, by any means, from what we have seen thus far. He does seem to have trouble making the correct reads and having everyone spread out and in shotgun will help that situation. A lot of people like to say that he gets all his numbers in trash time. I consider trash time to be when the opponent is running prevent defense. Houston and San Diego last year, along with Miami this year... they weren't playing prevent. What changed was that Tebow was running a hurry-up offense from the shotgun - just like he did at Florida. That is where he is comfortable. When you have a full offseason to get him up-to-speed in this vanilla offense, maybe he can be effective then. But for now, if Denver actually wants to win (and I'm beginning to wonder), they need to do what Shnikies (love the Tommy Boy reference, btw) said and go 100% shotgun. Not to say you're wrong, but where did you get 79.7% from? That seems kind of high to me, but I could be wrong. Either way, as you said, it should be 100%.
I like the Wonderlic and it's a tried and true method of finding out whether or not a quarterback is mentally capable of playing at the NFL level - it isn't perfect, though. Tim Tebow, reportedly, scored a 22 out of 50. In comparison, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each scored 15. Matt Leinart also scored a 35, Brian Griese a 39, Alex Smith a 40... definitely not perfect. The more accurate assessment is the 26/27/60 rule, but that isn't even perfect - as proven by Cam Newton. He failed the rule because he only played in 14 games in college. On the flip side, Matt Leinert passed this rule. It isn't perfect, but much closer than the Wonderlic alone.
People can complain all they want about Tebow, but there are only three choices in Denver - Tebow, Orton, or Quinn. That said, let's take a look at the 3 Denver quarterbacks and put the 26/27/60 rule to work.
Tim Tebow - Wonderlic = 22 / Starts = 41 (Played in 55) / Completion Percentage = 66.45%
Kyle Orton - Wonderlic = 26 / Starts = 37 / Completion Percentage = 60.7%
Brady Quinn - Wonderlic = 29 / Starts = 48 / Completion Percentage = 58.9%
Pretty close playing field with these guys. Yes, Kyle Orton is the only one to pass, but look at Tebow's completion percentage running the spread.... not too shabby. Combine that with being a "winner" and I give the edge to Tebow. And yes, I am well-aware I made a point for the other side.
I blasted the guy in college and it blew my mind when Denver took him in the first round. However, I have gotten so tired of hearing the same regurgitated crap about him, I have become an avid Tim Tebow supporter. Maybe it's Meril Hodge's analysis of his horrific accuracy, that everyone seemed to latch on to. Maybe it's what I have seen in the games he played in 2010 and 2011. Maybe it's just to make people mad and start a ruckus. Whatever the reason, I support the guy to the end. Consider me the Skip Bayless of TSB, on the subject.
Dizzy
Footballguy
It's looking like that game said a lot more about the DOLPHINS than it did about Tebow and the Broncos.It's pretty clear that you would jump off a bridge if Tebow asked you to, but either you haven't watched his play at all over the last two weeks... or you are blinded by your faith from what you've seen in South Florida.
Switching gears... How lucky is Brandon Lloyd!
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Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here: The vociferous defenders of Tebow are perplexing to me. I always felt like Tebow was a project-type of guy for the NFL, but one with huge upside potential. He should have been a 3rd or 4th round pick by a team with an OK QB situation for the immediate future. That would enable them to completely deconstruct the guy's throwing motion and rebuild it (we can make him stronger, faster, ...). Assuming the guy's got the smarts to be an NFL QB (and I don't know if he does or doesn't, but will assume he does), he's got the physical package. All he needs to do is learn how to properly throw the football and how to read a defense and make his progressions.
But he spent absolutely no time during the offseason working on what he needed to work on. Instead he lifted the crap out of some weights all the time. That's great, but that's not "getting better" or "working hard". At some level I think the guy's a victim of his own physical gifts. He managed to play QB at the highest level in college with atrocious mechanics in a watered-down, simple system because he was/is so gifted physically. He's never had to actually "work hard" at being a QB. He's just "worked hard" at the stuff he's already good at instead of the stuff he really needs to "work hard" at.
In short he is absolutely no better in his 2nd year in the NFL than he was his freshman year of college. I know. I had to watch him shred my conference like he was toying with it for 3 years as a starter.
I can't really tell if he has a strong arm or not. It takes him so damn long between deciding to throw and actually releasing the ball that it's almost impossible for me to discern whether his arm is actually weak or if it just seems that way because he's always late with the throw. Look at Cam as a counter. He may not always make smart decisions, but when he decides to throw the football it is gone in a hurry. Eli is a guy who's been brought up in this thread, but he always had a quick release of the ball. It's not purely a function of "holding it too long", it's a function of the length of time (and of arm movement) between deciding to throw it and actually throwing it. Coaches know they can work with a guy who has a quick release.
Finally, his fantasy "production" brings up a far greater topic, IMO. I think scoring for QBs in fantasy needs to be significantly changed to reflect the realities of the new NFL. Honestly, whether you love Tebow or hate him, his performance Sunday was absolutely atrocious. Using Dodds' stats, he was the 11th best QB in fantasyland last week. Does ANYONE think that's an accurate measure of his performance? Can a guy be both a QB1 AND the catalyst for the top Team Defense at the same time?
But he spent absolutely no time during the offseason working on what he needed to work on. Instead he lifted the crap out of some weights all the time. That's great, but that's not "getting better" or "working hard". At some level I think the guy's a victim of his own physical gifts. He managed to play QB at the highest level in college with atrocious mechanics in a watered-down, simple system because he was/is so gifted physically. He's never had to actually "work hard" at being a QB. He's just "worked hard" at the stuff he's already good at instead of the stuff he really needs to "work hard" at.
In short he is absolutely no better in his 2nd year in the NFL than he was his freshman year of college. I know. I had to watch him shred my conference like he was toying with it for 3 years as a starter.
I can't really tell if he has a strong arm or not. It takes him so damn long between deciding to throw and actually releasing the ball that it's almost impossible for me to discern whether his arm is actually weak or if it just seems that way because he's always late with the throw. Look at Cam as a counter. He may not always make smart decisions, but when he decides to throw the football it is gone in a hurry. Eli is a guy who's been brought up in this thread, but he always had a quick release of the ball. It's not purely a function of "holding it too long", it's a function of the length of time (and of arm movement) between deciding to throw it and actually throwing it. Coaches know they can work with a guy who has a quick release.
Finally, his fantasy "production" brings up a far greater topic, IMO. I think scoring for QBs in fantasy needs to be significantly changed to reflect the realities of the new NFL. Honestly, whether you love Tebow or hate him, his performance Sunday was absolutely atrocious. Using Dodds' stats, he was the 11th best QB in fantasyland last week. Does ANYONE think that's an accurate measure of his performance? Can a guy be both a QB1 AND the catalyst for the top Team Defense at the same time?
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njherdfan
Footballguy
TSB-Rollin
Footballguy
There was a reason why I prefaced my Tebow comment with the other quarterbacks... because they HAVE gotten a pass. How much do we hear about the other guys and how much do we hear about Tebow? It's pretty lop-sided. Sanchez didn't look good throughout his playoff wins, but he helped them come back for the win and he was praised - not bashed like Tebow. That is my point. Not that he should have a free pass.Sheesh. Some of you guys should be in the media the way you flip people's comments.'duaneok66 said:
shnikies
Footballguy
Detroit Game
Unofficial breakdown of shotgun vs. under center
Shotgun
Passing: 15-28 141 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5 dropped passes, 6 sacks, 1 Fumble
Rushing: 8 carries 51 yards
Under Center
Passing: 3-11 31 yards, 1 dropped pass, 1 sack
Rushing: 1 carry 12 yards
FWIW, following the first possession, Tebow lined up under center on first and second down for three straight possessions.
Unofficial breakdown of shotgun vs. under center
Shotgun
Passing: 15-28 141 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5 dropped passes, 6 sacks, 1 Fumble
Rushing: 8 carries 51 yards
Under Center
Passing: 3-11 31 yards, 1 dropped pass, 1 sack
Rushing: 1 carry 12 yards
FWIW, following the first possession, Tebow lined up under center on first and second down for three straight possessions.
duaneok66
Footballguy
Sanchez is horrible - bad example.'TSB-Rollin said:There was a reason why I prefaced my Tebow comment with the other quarterbacks... because they HAVE gotten a pass. How much do we hear about the other guys and how much do we hear about Tebow? It's pretty lop-sided. Sanchez didn't look good throughout his playoff wins, but he helped them come back for the win and he was praised - not bashed like Tebow. That is my point. Not that he should have a free pass.Sheesh. Some of you guys should be in the media the way you flip people's comments.'duaneok66 said:
Dizzy
Footballguy
Your MAN-LOVE for "St. Tebow" is well documented... please don't feel pressured to pretend to make a point. Just shout it from the mountain tops my brother!Gotta hand it to Elway and Fox; start Tebow, giving the fans what they (think they) want, and at the same time virtually guarantee that you stay firmly in the hunt for Andrew Luck.BRILLIANT!'TSB-Rollin said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
So fast-forward to the point where every team in the NFL becomes convinced Tebow will never be an NFL quarterback.
Can he realistically convert to another position? He does have extraordinary athletic ability. I don't think anyone would debate that. The "true fullback" position is almost extinct these days, so let's look elsewhere. Tight end? Slot receiver? Sam LB, where he can provide run support and shadow the TE?
Or does he just retire and build a church at that point?
Can he realistically convert to another position? He does have extraordinary athletic ability. I don't think anyone would debate that. The "true fullback" position is almost extinct these days, so let's look elsewhere. Tight end? Slot receiver? Sam LB, where he can provide run support and shadow the TE?
Or does he just retire and build a church at that point?
Diamond One
Footballguy
Retires and builds a church. Lord knows he has yelled "Jesus Christ" on the field plenty of times this season. Great college career, but lacks the supporting cast in Denver to be a career pro. Now if he leaves Denver, that would be another issue - and what's to say that won't happen? Agree that he has the extrodinary athletic ability for sure and could be a viable weapom in another system... Would love to see him get it done in Denver as a Bronco fan, but I fear that he is done in Denver soon (maybe he can carry Orton's and Fox's luggage at DIA)...
Sea Duck
Footballguy
No, but he won't have to. He'll make more as a spokesman/personality than he could ever make as a backup fullback.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Seems to be built like a TE, but who knows if he can catch or not.He might carve out some years as a "Slash" type... comes in, and could line up anywhere, TE/WR/RB/QB.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
I agree with this. Even if he bombs as a full-timer, he'd still be an effective change of pace around the goal line for a team like the Bills/Jets/Chiefs/etc. At team without a run threat at QB that struggles in goal to go situations. I think there's still a place for him in specific situations.
massraider
Footballguy
Start Orton and use Tebow in short yardage. That's what I would do.
The Comedian
Footballguy
What are the chances this guy gets benched during the game this weekend? I might actually have to start him in one league. :X
packersfan
Footballguy
I'd put the odds at about 25% and that may be conservative. It could be as much as a 50-50 chance he gets benched considering how poorly he's played as well as Fox's comments all week, which hardly have been an endorsement of Tebow, and the fact Fox has already benched one QB during a game who was playing much better than Tebow's playing now. I think Tebow has the lowest floor of any QB starting this week and that includes guys like Matt Moore, Skelton and Feely (if he starts) because of the benching factor.
packersfan
Footballguy
I hope you're right because I'll be forced to start him in my Start-2 QB league if Bradford doesn't play. What's been striking to me this week is how Fox hasn't shown any support whatsoever for Tebow. All of his comments strongly indicate he doesn't believe in him and isn't committed to him. I'm willing to bet if you went to Jacksonville and asked Del Rio about Gabbert (who's also playing poorly) you'd hear strong words of endorsement and positive comments about how the team believes in Gabbert, how he's their guy etc. There hasn't been a single comment from Fox about Tebow being this team's starter and how they believe in him and are committed to him. He made those types of comments about Orton, but nothing about Tebow. I think that tells us a lot about where Tebow's at in Fox's eyes and why he's so risky from a fantasy perspective.
packersfan
Footballguy
Fox isn't going anywhere. It's his first season. He and Elway have plenty of job security in my opinion. I agree, though, that Fox doesn't seem invested in Tebow succeeding. Certainly, there's nothing from the comments I've seen that indicates a strong belief in Tebow. That's been the case for months so it isn't really surprising. But I am still taken aback that Fox can't even fake some belief in Tebow. Nearly every head coach will do that but Fox appears to be radically opposed to pronouncing any faith or belief in Tebow.
duaneok66
Footballguy
he is just confirming how bad Tebow is.
packersfan
Footballguy
I don't necessarily disagree but it still runs contrary to how nearly every head coach at any level would handle a starting player and especially a starting quarterback. I think it's really quite bizarre.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
The facts do not support this claim in any way, shape, or form. Fox has gone out of his way to accommodate Tebow, going so far as to allow Tebow to play his preferred formation (shotgun) in situations that clearly called for him to take the snap under center.
Most of the play calling in the first half had Tebow under center first and second down, then in shotgun on third and long. I would not call that going out of his way. Fox wants Tebow to prove he is a pocket passer. He's the coach, and if that is the style he wants, fine. But Fox is not making many accommodations for Tebow.
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shnikies
Footballguy
He took snaps under center on first and second down for the Broncos' 2nd, 3rd and 4th possessions against the Lions (I'm not sure about after that). The facts support this claim in every way, shape and form.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
False.
Code:
1-10-DEN 20 (15:00) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow up the middle to DEN 25 for 5 yards (99-C.Williams). 1-10-DEN 35 (13:49) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short left to 87-E.Decker ran ob at DEN 49 for 14 yards. 1-10-DEN 49 (13:26) (Shotgun) 35-L.Ball right guard to DET 17 for 34 yards (42-A.Spievey). 2-14-DET 21 (11:34) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass incomplete deep right to 87-E.Decker. Denver challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. 1-10-DEN 36 (3:36) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end to DEN 39 for 3 yards (23-C.Houston; 79-W.Young). 3-6-DEN 24 (9:06) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to 87-E.Decker (32-A.Berry). 1-10-DEN 20 (4:11) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow up the middle to DEN 26 for 6 yards (42-A.Spievey). 2-4-DEN 26 (3:36) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end to DEN 27 for 1 yard (79-W.Young). 3-3-DEN 27 (2:55) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short left to 19-E.Royal to DEN 29 for 2 yards (21-E.Wright). 1-10-DEN 20 (:29) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short right to 27-K.Moreno to DEN 25 for 5 yards (21-E.Wright). 2-5-DEN 25 (:21) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow sacked at DEN 18 for -7 yards (99-C.Williams). Penalty on DEN-78-R.Clady, Offensive Holding, declined.
Do you just make stuff up in hopes that people won't call you on it??Joe Summer
Footballguy
The Broncos had 28 offensive snaps in the 1st half, and 16 of them were from the shotgun.http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011103006/2011/REG8/lions@broncos#menu=highlights&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay
shnikies
Footballguy
False.3 out of the first 4 plays were from the shotgun for Pete's sake!Code:1-10-DEN 20 (15:00) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow up the middle to DEN 25 for 5 yards (99-C.Williams). 1-10-DEN 35 (13:49) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short left to 87-E.Decker ran ob at DEN 49 for 14 yards. 1-10-DEN 49 (13:26) (Shotgun) 35-L.Ball right guard to DET 17 for 34 yards (42-A.Spievey). 2-14-DET 21 (11:34) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass incomplete deep right to 87-E.Decker. Denver challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. 1-10-DEN 36 (3:36) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end to DEN 39 for 3 yards (23-C.Houston; 79-W.Young). 3-6-DEN 24 (9:06) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to 87-E.Decker (32-A.Berry). 1-10-DEN 20 (4:11) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow up the middle to DEN 26 for 6 yards (42-A.Spievey). 2-4-DEN 26 (3:36) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end to DEN 27 for 1 yard (79-W.Young). 3-3-DEN 27 (2:55) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short left to 19-E.Royal to DEN 29 for 2 yards (21-E.Wright). 1-10-DEN 20 (:29) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short right to 27-K.Moreno to DEN 25 for 5 yards (21-E.Wright). 2-5-DEN 25 (:21) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow sacked at DEN 18 for -7 yards (99-C.Williams). Penalty on DEN-78-R.Clady, Offensive Holding, declined.
Denver Broncos at 08:331-10-DEN21 (8:33) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to E.Royal.2-10-DEN21 (8:27) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 23 for 2 yards (L.Jackson).3-8-DEN23 (7:51) (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 15 for -8 yards (C.Avril). FUMBLES (C.Avril), and recovers at DEN 15. T.Tebow to DEN 15 for no gain (D.Levy).4-16-DEN15 (7:35) B.Colquitt punts 48 yards to DET 37, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by S.Logan.Denver Broncos at 04:521-10-DEN20 (4:52) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 20 for no gain (J.Durant).2-10-DEN20 (4:18) T.Tebow pass deep left to E.Decker to DEN 36 for 16 yards (E.Wright).1-10-DEN36 (3:36) (Shotgun) T.Tebow right end to DEN 39 for 3 yards (C.Houston; W.Young).2-7-DEN39 (2:51) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep right to E.Royal.3-7-DEN39 (2:44) (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 34 for -5 yards (S.Tulloch).4-12-DEN34 (2:27) B.Colquitt punts 55 yards to DET 11, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by S.Logan.Denver Broncos at 14:441-10-DEN20 (14:44) L.Ball left guard to DEN 23 for 3 yards (S.Tulloch).2-7-DEN23 (14:08) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to J.Thomas.3-7-DEN23 (14:02) (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep left to D.Thomas.4-7-DEN23 (13:55) B.Colquitt punts 46 yards to DET 31, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by S.Logan.Denver Broncos at 09:521-10-DEN20 (9:52) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep middle to E.Decker.2-10-DEN20 (9:45) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 24 for 4 yards (S.Tulloch).3-6-DEN24 (9:06) (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to E.Decker.4-6-DEN24 (9:02) B.Colquitt punts 53 yards to DET 23, Center-L.Paxton. S.Logan to DET 32 for 9 yards (D.Rosario).
shnikies
Footballguy
You do understand taking 57.1% of snaps from shotgun is not a lot, correct? Orton took 56.3% of his snaps from shotgun when he was playing this year.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
If you're trying to prove that Tebow occasionally plays under center, ummmm, congratulations?But the facts still prove that John Fox has gone out of his way to accommodate Tebow by playing him in the shotgun FAR MORE OFTEN than Orton ever did.
Broncos run shotgun far more often with Tebow than with Orton
Joe Summer
Footballguy
You do understand that Orton's stats are for complete games and not the first half, correct?(Actually, you probably didn't understand that or else you wouldn't have posted this!
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