Tim Tebow - 8.17.21 Waived By Jacksonville (1 Viewer)

[shnikies]

If you're trying to prove that Tebow occasionally plays under center, ummmm, congratulations?But the facts still prove that John Fox has gone out of his way to accommodate Tebow by playing him in the shotgun FAR MORE OFTEN than Orton ever did.

Broncos run shotgun far more often with Tebow than with Orton

You already said he only took 57% of his snaps from shotgun during the first half proving Fox isn't going out of his way to accommodate Tebow's strengths. Of course he's going to be taking a lot of snaps from shotgun when they go down 24-3 at half.

 

[shnikies]

You do understand taking 57.1% of snaps from shotgun is not a lot, correct? Orton took 56.3% of his snaps from shotgun when he was playing this year.

You do understand that Orton's stats are for complete games and not the first half, correct?(Actually, you probably didn't understand that or else you wouldn't have posted this! )

Answer one question, how is playing only 57% of snaps from shotgun tailoring an offense to Tebow's strengths?

 

[Joe Summer]

You do understand taking 57.1% of snaps from shotgun is not a lot, correct? Orton took 56.3% of his snaps from shotgun when he was playing this year.

You do understand that Orton's stats are for complete games and not the first half, correct?(Actually, you probably didn't understand that or else you wouldn't have posted this! )

Answer one question, how is playing only 57% of snaps from shotgun tailoring an offense to Tebow's strengths?

I never said it was. I said Fox was accommodating Tebow, not tailoring the offense to him.Fox let Tebow play from the shotgun for 71% of the snaps in the second half last week. You still think there's a conspiracy??

 

[shnikies]

You do understand taking 57.1% of snaps from shotgun is not a lot, correct? Orton took 56.3% of his snaps from shotgun when he was playing this year.

You do understand that Orton's stats are for complete games and not the first half, correct?(Actually, you probably didn't understand that or else you wouldn't have posted this! )

Answer one question, how is playing only 57% of snaps from shotgun tailoring an offense to Tebow's strengths?

I never said it was. I said Fox was accommodating Tebow, not tailoring the offense to him.Fox let Tebow play from the shotgun for 71% of the snaps in the second half last week. You still think there's a conspiracy??

Really? The quarterback ran 71% of the snaps from shotgun when the team was down 24-3!?!?!? No way!

 

[Joe Summer]

You do understand taking 57.1% of snaps from shotgun is not a lot, correct? Orton took 56.3% of his snaps from shotgun when he was playing this year.

You do understand that Orton's stats are for complete games and not the first half, correct?(Actually, you probably didn't understand that or else you wouldn't have posted this! )

Answer one question, how is playing only 57% of snaps from shotgun tailoring an offense to Tebow's strengths?

I never said it was. I said Fox was accommodating Tebow, not tailoring the offense to him.Fox let Tebow play from the shotgun for 71% of the snaps in the second half last week. You still think there's a conspiracy??

Really? The quarterback ran 71% of the snaps from shotgun when the team was down 24-3!?!?!? No way!

That's a higher percentage than Orton ever ran, even when the Broncos were behind.

 

[shnikies]

You do understand taking 57.1% of snaps from shotgun is not a lot, correct? Orton took 56.3% of his snaps from shotgun when he was playing this year.

You do understand that Orton's stats are for complete games and not the first half, correct?(Actually, you probably didn't understand that or else you wouldn't have posted this! )

Answer one question, how is playing only 57% of snaps from shotgun tailoring an offense to Tebow's strengths?

I never said it was. I said Fox was accommodating Tebow, not tailoring the offense to him.Fox let Tebow play from the shotgun for 71% of the snaps in the second half last week. You still think there's a conspiracy??

Really? The quarterback ran 71% of the snaps from shotgun when the team was down 24-3!?!?!? No way!

That's a higher percentage than Orton ever ran, even when the Broncos were behind.

Let me see the stats for Orton when the Broncos were behind three scores.

 

[Joe Summer]

That's a higher percentage than Orton ever ran, even when the Broncos were behind.

Let me see the stats for Orton when the Broncos were behind three scores.

Broncos were never behind three scores with Orton. You're not helping Tebow's cause here. Oh wait, they were down by 3 scores for a while at Green Bay. Guess what? They ran shotgun formation 12 out of 27 times, or 44.5%.

Once again: you're not helping Tebow's cause here.

 

[shnikies]

That's a higher percentage than Orton ever ran, even when the Broncos were behind.

Let me see the stats for Orton when the Broncos were behind three scores.

Broncos were never behind three scores with Orton. You're not helping Tebow's cause here. Oh wait, they were down by 3 scores for a while at Green Bay. Guess what? They ran shotgun formation 12 out of 27 times, or 44.5%.

Once again: you're not helping Tebow's cause here.

Correct. One game. It's settled. Fox is "accomodating" Tebow by running about the league average amount of shotgun plays relative to the situation. You win.

 

[Joe Summer]

Fox is "accomodating" Tebow by running about the league average amount of shotgun plays relative to the situation. You win.

Got a link to back that one up?

 

[shnikies]

Fox is "accomodating" Tebow by running about the league average amount of shotgun plays relative to the situation. You win.

Got a link to back that one up?

I don't have the time. If you'd like to dispute it, you can find it.

 

[packersfan]

It's definitely a fact that the Broncos are using the shotgun considerably more for Tebow than they did before. I posted an article earlier this week from the Denver Post which made that quite clear. What strikes me as odd is how little public confidence Fox has given for his starting quarterback. It really feels like he has no investment in Tebow succeeding. That's what I find curious.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the article and a link. This really should end the whole shotgun debate.

In the two games since Tebow has been the starting quarterback, the Broncos have been passing from the shotgun 79.7 percent of the time — a whopping 23.4 percent increase from the first five games started by Kyle Orton.

Among NFL teams, only the Baltimore Ravens, who have played from behind in each of their past two games, have thrown a higher percentage of passes from the shotgun (86.2) in that span.

Counting all plays, running and passing, the Broncos have averaged 16.7 more plays from the shotgun formation in Tebow's two starts compared with Orton's five starts.

Link

 

[Joe Summer]

Fox is "accomodating" Tebow by running about the league average amount of shotgun plays relative to the situation. You win.

Got a link to back that one up?

I don't have the time. If you'd like to dispute it, you can find it.

How were you able to find the info in the first place if you didn't have the time? Maybe because YOU MADE IT UP?

 

[shnikies]

It's definitely a fact that the Broncos are using the shotgun considerably more for Tebow than they did before. I posted an article earlier this week from the Denver Post which made that quite clear. What strikes me as odd is how little public confidence Fox has given for his starting quarterback. It really feels like he has no investment in Tebow succeeding. That's what I find curious.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the article and a link. This really should end the whole shotgun debate.

In the two games since Tebow has been the starting quarterback, the Broncos have been passing from the shotgun 79.7 percent of the time — a whopping 23.4 percent increase from the first five games started by Kyle Orton.

Among NFL teams, only the Baltimore Ravens, who have played from behind in each of their past two games, have thrown a higher percentage of passes from the shotgun (86.2) in that span.

Counting all plays, running and passing, the Broncos have averaged 16.7 more plays from the shotgun formation in Tebow's two starts compared with Orton's five starts.

Link

They ran four straight possessions during the first half on first and second down from under center. They're obviously going to run out of shotgun during the second half when they're down 2 or more possessions. What matter is he's not running the hurry up shotgun unless it's the scripted first possession of the game or if they're trailing by multiple scores in the second half. That's not running shotgun because of Tebow, that's running shotgun out of necessity.

 

[shnikies]

Fox is "accomodating" Tebow by running about the league average amount of shotgun plays relative to the situation. You win.

Got a link to back that one up?

I don't have the time. If you'd like to dispute it, you can find it.

How were you able to find the info in the first place if you didn't have the time? Maybe because YOU MADE IT UP?

I'm arguing a point I didn't make in the first place. Please read about them not running shotgun because of Tebow but out of necessity.

 

[shnikies]

If you're trying to prove that Tebow occasionally plays under center, ummmm, congratulations?But the facts still prove that John Fox has gone out of his way to accommodate Tebow by playing him in the shotgun FAR MORE OFTEN than Orton ever did.

Broncos run shotgun far more often with Tebow than with Orton

Those stats are passes out of shotgun, not shotgun plays in general.

 

[Joe Summer]

If you're trying to prove that Tebow occasionally plays under center, ummmm, congratulations?But the facts still prove that John Fox has gone out of his way to accommodate Tebow by playing him in the shotgun FAR MORE OFTEN than Orton ever did.

Broncos run shotgun far more often with Tebow than with Orton

Those stats are passes out of shotgun, not shotgun plays in general.

Broncos' shotgun running plays are also up 15 percent in Tebow's two starts. Overall, the Broncos have run 16.7 more plays from the shotgun formation in Tebow's two starts as compared to Orton's five starts.

You should have quit while you were behind.

 

[shnikies]

That's a higher percentage than Orton ever ran, even when the Broncos were behind.

Let me see the stats for Orton when the Broncos were behind three scores.

Broncos were never behind three scores with Orton. You're not helping Tebow's cause here. Oh wait, they were down by 3 scores for a while at Green Bay. Guess what? They ran shotgun formation 12 out of 27 times, or 44.5%.

Once again: you're not helping Tebow's cause here.

Orton threw 65% of his passes out of the shotgun when they were down three scores.

 

[shnikies]

If you're trying to prove that Tebow occasionally plays under center, ummmm, congratulations?But the facts still prove that John Fox has gone out of his way to accommodate Tebow by playing him in the shotgun FAR MORE OFTEN than Orton ever did.

Broncos run shotgun far more often with Tebow than with Orton

Those stats are passes out of shotgun, not shotgun plays in general.

Broncos' shotgun running plays are also up 15 percent in Tebow's two starts. Overall, the Broncos have run 16.7 more plays from the shotgun formation in Tebow's two starts as compared to Orton's five starts.

You should have quit while you were behind.

Shotgun running plays are up 15%? That's it? What does that prove? How many plays did the Broncos run the two game Tebow played? I don't know how much of a difference 16.7 plays is relative to the total amount of plays run.

 

[packersfan]

It's definitely a fact that the Broncos are using the shotgun considerably more for Tebow than they did before. I posted an article earlier this week from the Denver Post which made that quite clear. What strikes me as odd is how little public confidence Fox has given for his starting quarterback. It really feels like he has no investment in Tebow succeeding. That's what I find curious.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the article and a link. This really should end the whole shotgun debate.

In the two games since Tebow has been the starting quarterback, the Broncos have been passing from the shotgun 79.7 percent of the time — a whopping 23.4 percent increase from the first five games started by Kyle Orton.

Among NFL teams, only the Baltimore Ravens, who have played from behind in each of their past two games, have thrown a higher percentage of passes from the shotgun (86.2) in that span.

Counting all plays, running and passing, the Broncos have averaged 16.7 more plays from the shotgun formation in Tebow's two starts compared with Orton's five starts.

Link

They ran four straight possessions during the first half on first and second down from under center. They're obviously going to run out of shotgun during the second half when they're down 2 or more possessions.

They ran a lot of plays out of the shotgun in the first half when the game was still in contention as well. They had success with it on the first drive but no success with it after that. The bottom line is the Broncos' shotgun usage is up significantly with Tebow. That's a fact no matter how hard you try and spin it. What's also a fact is that last week (and for the majority of the Miami game) Tebow has played like garbage regardless of whether he was in the shotgun or not.

 

[dontknowaboutme]

Fact of the matter is Tebow is terrible, probably doesn't have a future in this league at QB, he is usually great in fantasy though. Broncos have increased their usage of the shotgun formation, however they aren't exactly running a short-spread offense. Tebow has to be able to make the long throws, but this isn't training camp, if they are trying to win they should drastically shorten some of the plays that I have seen.

 

[shnikies]

It's definitely a fact that the Broncos are using the shotgun considerably more for Tebow than they did before. I posted an article earlier this week from the Denver Post which made that quite clear. What strikes me as odd is how little public confidence Fox has given for his starting quarterback. It really feels like he has no investment in Tebow succeeding. That's what I find curious.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the article and a link. This really should end the whole shotgun debate.

In the two games since Tebow has been the starting quarterback, the Broncos have been passing from the shotgun 79.7 percent of the time — a whopping 23.4 percent increase from the first five games started by Kyle Orton.

Among NFL teams, only the Baltimore Ravens, who have played from behind in each of their past two games, have thrown a higher percentage of passes from the shotgun (86.2) in that span.

Counting all plays, running and passing, the Broncos have averaged 16.7 more plays from the shotgun formation in Tebow's two starts compared with Orton's five starts.

Link

They ran four straight possessions during the first half on first and second down from under center. They're obviously going to run out of shotgun during the second half when they're down 2 or more possessions.

They ran a lot of plays out of the shotgun in the first half when the game was still in contention as well. They had success with it on the first drive but no success with it after that. The bottom line is the Broncos' shotgun usage is up significantly with Tebow. That's a fact no matter how hard you try and spin it. What's also a fact is that last week (and for the majority of the Miami game) Tebow has played like garbage regardless of whether he was in the shotgun or not.

I already posted this but here are the four possessions following the first possession where they ran shotgun almost exclusively and successfully. That looks like just any ole team running shotgun on 3rd down for obvious passing situations with an early down shotgun play thrown in for a little change. There's no way you can say Fox is doing what Glazer said, "Jay Glazer reported on FOX's pregame show Sunday that coach John Fox is revamping his entire offense to more of a college style to suit Tim Tebow's strengths."Denver Broncos at 08:33

1-10-DEN21 (8:33) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to E.Royal.

2-10-DEN21 (8:27) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 23 for 2 yards (L.Jackson).

3-8-DEN23 (7:51) (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 15 for -8 yards (C.Avril). FUMBLES (C.Avril), and recovers at DEN 15. T.Tebow to DEN 15 for no gain (D.Levy).

4-16-DEN15 (7:35) B.Colquitt punts 48 yards to DET 37, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by S.Logan.

Denver Broncos at 04:52

1-10-DEN20 (4:52) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 20 for no gain (J.Durant).

2-10-DEN20 (4:18) T.Tebow pass deep left to E.Decker to DEN 36 for 16 yards (E.Wright).

1-10-DEN36 (3:36) (Shotgun) T.Tebow right end to DEN 39 for 3 yards (C.Houston; W.Young).

2-7-DEN39 (2:51) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep right to E.Royal.

3-7-DEN39 (2:44) (Shotgun) T.Tebow sacked at DEN 34 for -5 yards (S.Tulloch).

4-12-DEN34 (2:27) B.Colquitt punts 55 yards to DET 11, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by S.Logan.

Denver Broncos at 14:44

1-10-DEN20 (14:44) L.Ball left guard to DEN 23 for 3 yards (S.Tulloch).

2-7-DEN23 (14:08) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to J.Thomas.

3-7-DEN23 (14:02) (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep left to D.Thomas.

4-7-DEN23 (13:55) B.Colquitt punts 46 yards to DET 31, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by S.Logan.

Denver Broncos at 09:52

1-10-DEN20 (9:52) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep middle to E.Decker.

2-10-DEN20 (9:45) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 24 for 4 yards (S.Tulloch).

3-6-DEN24 (9:06) (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to E.Decker.

4-6-DEN24 (9:02) B.Colquitt punts 53 yards to DET 23, Center-L.Paxton. S.Logan to DET 32 for 9 yards (D.Rosario).

 

[packersfan]

Does this series in the first half not count?

(4:11) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow up the middle to DEN 26 for 6 yards (42-A.Spievey).

2-4-DEN 26

(3:36) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end to DEN 27 for 1 yard (79-W.Young).

3-3-DEN 27

(2:55) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short left to 19-E.Royal to DEN 29 for 2 yards (21-E.Wright).

Looks like an entire three-and-out from the shotgun.

Again, it's a fact the Broncos' shotgun usage is up considerably. You can spin it all you want but the numbers don't lie. If your argument is it's only up in the second half because Denver has been so far behind have you ever considered the reason why the Broncos are so far behind is because Tebow has been so bad?

 

[Joe Summer]

Again, it's a fact the Broncos' shotgun usage is up considerably. You can spin it all you want but the numbers don't lie. If your argument is it's only up in the second half because Denver has been so far behind have you ever considered the reason why the Broncos are so far behind is because Tebow has been so bad?

 

[shnikies]

Does this series in the first half not count?

(4:11) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow up the middle to DEN 26 for 6 yards (42-A.Spievey).

2-4-DEN 26

(3:36) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end to DEN 27 for 1 yard (79-W.Young).

3-3-DEN 27

(2:55) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short left to 19-E.Royal to DEN 29 for 2 yards (21-E.Wright).

Looks like an entire three-and-out from the shotgun.

Again, it's a fact the Broncos' shotgun usage is up considerably. You can spin it all you want but the numbers don't lie. If your argument is it's only up in the second half because Denver has been so far behind have you ever considered the reason why the Broncos are so far behind is because Tebow has been so bad?

My point was that they aren't running enough plays on early downs from the shotgun during the first half. Of course he isn't going to succeed every time he's in shotgun. Here are his stats from shotgun vs. under center. If you'd like to also go back and watch the Detroit game to see Demaryius Thomas and Eddie Royal absolutely stink up the joint you are more than welcome to. I'm not defending Tebow's performance thus far but it's clear his only opportunity to succeed is in a shotgun spread offense almost exclusively. Fox has two options that are both good moves:1. Don't play Tim Tebow

2. Play Tebow and run shotgun almost exclusively

There is one option that isn't a good move

1. Play Tebow and consistently run a vanilla offense as if Orton were still the quarterback

Detroit Game

Unofficial breakdown of shotgun vs. under center

Shotgun

Passing: 15-28 141 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5 dropped passes, 6 sacks, 1 Fumble

Rushing: 8 carries 51 yards

Under Center

Passing: 3-11 31 yards, 1 dropped pass, 1 sack

Rushing: 1 carry 12 yards

 

[packersfan]

Again I'll say I don't believe Fox is completely invested in Tebow. I think he caved to public sentiment and is playing someone he doesn't believe in. That said, there's no denying the fact he's doing more to try and cater to Tebow's supposed strengths. The primary problem is that outside of the final four minutes or so against Miami and the first drive against the Lions Tebow has been completely pathetic regardless of whether he's playing in the shotgun or not. I can't blame Fox for that. That's all on Tebow. Right now, Tebow hasn't shown the ability to be consistently productive in any offensive alignment so I can't blame Fox for not deciding to use one exclusively.

 

[shnikies]

Again I'll say I don't believe Fox is completely invested in Tebow. I think he caved to public sentiment and is playing someone he doesn't believe in. That said, there's no denying the fact he's doing more to try and cater to Tebow's supposed strengths. The primary problem is that outside of the final four minutes or so against Miami and the first drive against the Lions Tebow has been completely pathetic regardless of whether he's playing in the shotgun or not. I can't blame Fox for that. That's all on Tebow. Right now, Tebow hasn't shown the ability to be consistently productive in any offensive alignment so I can't blame Fox for not deciding to use one exclusively.

My point is that every time you run a play from under center it is thrown away. He's digging Tebow a hole with his play calling. Do I think Tebow would succeed if given the right opportunity? I have no idea. Probably not. Does he have a chance at least? Yes. Just because Fox is running more plays that cater to Tebow's strengths doesn't mean he's running enough. That's all I'm saying. If Fox has chosen Tebow to start at quarterback and he also wants to win, he's not doing a good job. He's going halfway and that won't get it done.

 

[packersfan]

Again I'll say I don't believe Fox is completely invested in Tebow. I think he caved to public sentiment and is playing someone he doesn't believe in. That said, there's no denying the fact he's doing more to try and cater to Tebow's supposed strengths. The primary problem is that outside of the final four minutes or so against Miami and the first drive against the Lions Tebow has been completely pathetic regardless of whether he's playing in the shotgun or not. I can't blame Fox for that. That's all on Tebow. Right now, Tebow hasn't shown the ability to be consistently productive in any offensive alignment so I can't blame Fox for not deciding to use one exclusively.

My point is that every time you run a play from under center it is thrown away. He's digging Tebow a hole with his play calling. Do I think Tebow would succeed if given the right opportunity? I have no idea. Probably not. Does he have a chance at least? Yes. Just because Fox is running more plays that cater to Tebow's strengths doesn't mean he's running enough. That's all I'm saying. If Fox has chosen Tebow to start at quarterback and he also wants to win, he's not doing a good job. He's going halfway and that won't get it done.

What you're ignoring is Tebow has looked awful out of the shotgun too. So plenty of those plays have been thrown away too - or resulted in defensive touchdowns as was the case against the Lions. I can't blame Fox if Tebow is giving him nothing to build on. He's been awful regardless of the formation with the exception of a few minutes of playing time. That's not on Fox. That's on Tebow and his lack of ability. You want to completely revamp an offense to fit a player who has provided no indication whatsoever he can succeed in that new revamped offense. Criticize Fox all you want (and let's be clear, I'm not a huge John Fox fan), but your idea isn't any better than what he's done so far. The reason why his approach and your approach can't work is because Tim Tebow stinks as a quarterback. He's stunk under center and he's stunk in the shotgun. He's just stunk. Until he shows some signs he can play the position consistently it won't matter what formation the team uses.

 

[FavreCo]

shnikies is to The Tebow as the hairy scotsman is to ___________?

Picked up the Raiders D in redraft. It will make The Tebow's beatdown even more enjoyable.

 

[Sea Duck]

What you're ignoring is Tebow has looked awful out of the shotgun too. So plenty of those plays have been thrown away too - or resulted in defensive touchdowns as was the case against the Lions. I can't blame Fox if Tebow is giving him nothing to build on. He's been awful regardless of the formation with the exception of a few minutes of playing time. That's not on Fox. That's on Tebow and his lack of ability. You want to completely revamp an offense to fit a player who has provided no indication whatsoever he can succeed in that new revamped offense. Criticize Fox all you want (and let's be clear, I'm not a huge John Fox fan), but your idea isn't any better than what he's done so far. The reason why his approach and your approach can't work is because Tim Tebow stinks as a quarterback. He's stunk under center and he's stunk in the shotgun. He's just stunk. Until he shows some signs he can play the position consistently it won't matter what formation the team uses.

If someone's argument boils down to "He can only succeed if the coach installs the exact same offense that he ran in college", then it's probably not a very strong argument.

 

[shnikies]

shnikies is to The Tebow as the hairy scotsman is to ___________?Picked up the Raiders D in redraft. It will make The Tebow's beatdown even more enjoyable.

If I knew what that meant it would mean something. If you're inferring that I'm defending Tebow's performance then I'd like you to point out where I have done just that.

 

[Raider Nation]

Tebow is on my roster yet I'm sick of him.

 

[shnikies]

What you're ignoring is Tebow has looked awful out of the shotgun too. So plenty of those plays have been thrown away too - or resulted in defensive touchdowns as was the case against the Lions. I can't blame Fox if Tebow is giving him nothing to build on. He's been awful regardless of the formation with the exception of a few minutes of playing time. That's not on Fox. That's on Tebow and his lack of ability. You want to completely revamp an offense to fit a player who has provided no indication whatsoever he can succeed in that new revamped offense. Criticize Fox all you want (and let's be clear, I'm not a huge John Fox fan), but your idea isn't any better than what he's done so far. The reason why his approach and your approach can't work is because Tim Tebow stinks as a quarterback. He's stunk under center and he's stunk in the shotgun. He's just stunk. Until he shows some signs he can play the position consistently it won't matter what formation the team uses.

If someone's argument boils down to "He can only succeed if the coach installs the exact same offense that he ran in college", then it's probably not a very strong argument.

How many greatest college spread quarterbacks of all-time are there? I only know one.

 

[Sea Duck]

What you're ignoring is Tebow has looked awful out of the shotgun too. So plenty of those plays have been thrown away too - or resulted in defensive touchdowns as was the case against the Lions. I can't blame Fox if Tebow is giving him nothing to build on. He's been awful regardless of the formation with the exception of a few minutes of playing time. That's not on Fox. That's on Tebow and his lack of ability. You want to completely revamp an offense to fit a player who has provided no indication whatsoever he can succeed in that new revamped offense. Criticize Fox all you want (and let's be clear, I'm not a huge John Fox fan), but your idea isn't any better than what he's done so far. The reason why his approach and your approach can't work is because Tim Tebow stinks as a quarterback. He's stunk under center and he's stunk in the shotgun. He's just stunk. Until he shows some signs he can play the position consistently it won't matter what formation the team uses.

If someone's argument boils down to "He can only succeed if the coach installs the exact same offense that he ran in college", then it's probably not a very strong argument.

How many greatest college spread quarterbacks of all-time are there? I only know one.

How many of the "greatest college spread quarterbacks" prior to Tebow were successes in the NFL?

 

[shnikies]

What you're ignoring is Tebow has looked awful out of the shotgun too. So plenty of those plays have been thrown away too - or resulted in defensive touchdowns as was the case against the Lions. I can't blame Fox if Tebow is giving him nothing to build on. He's been awful regardless of the formation with the exception of a few minutes of playing time. That's not on Fox. That's on Tebow and his lack of ability. You want to completely revamp an offense to fit a player who has provided no indication whatsoever he can succeed in that new revamped offense. Criticize Fox all you want (and let's be clear, I'm not a huge John Fox fan), but your idea isn't any better than what he's done so far. The reason why his approach and your approach can't work is because Tim Tebow stinks as a quarterback. He's stunk under center and he's stunk in the shotgun. He's just stunk. Until he shows some signs he can play the position consistently it won't matter what formation the team uses.

If someone's argument boils down to "He can only succeed if the coach installs the exact same offense that he ran in college", then it's probably not a very strong argument.

How many greatest college spread quarterbacks of all-time are there? I only know one.

How many of the "greatest college spread quarterbacks" prior to Tebow were successes in the NFL?

There weren't any that ran the spread offense in the NFL. Not to mention, there were no Tim Tebow's until Tim Tebow. In 1995, 6.9% of NFL throws were from the shotgun. In 2010, that number went up to 37.5%. Last year Hill threw 87.6% of his passes from the shotgun and Peyton Manning, 74.5%. Why is so crazy for a team to run the spread formation nearly exclusively? Especially, when the quarterback is clearly better in it?

 

[packersfan]

Can someone explain to me why a team should revamp its entire offensive approach for a quarterback who can't even complete 50% of his passes? Why is the fact Tebow has stunk in the shotgun being continually ignored? It's not like he's been great in the shotgun and awful under center. He's generally been awful regardless of the formation. So radically retooling the offense makes no sense until Tebow shows he can do one thing well.

One thing.

That's it.

Show me something Tebow other than a keen ability to create sacks for the defense, the ability to flutter passes wildly off target and be unable to complete simple short and intermediate passes. Once you do that then maybe we can talk about tailoring the offense to your "strengths" because right now, you don't have any at the NFL level.

I'm with Raider Nation. I massively overbid for Tebow when he became the starter, regretted it at the time and am sick of him now. I'm just hoping he can show some rudimentary quarterback skills. Seems like a simple enough request, doesn't it?

 

[shnikies]

Can someone explain to me why a team should revamp its entire offensive approach for a quarterback who can't even complete 50% of his passes? Why is the fact Tebow has stunk in the shotgun being continually ignored? It's not like he's been great in the shotgun and awful under center. He's generally been awful regardless of the formation. So radically retooling the offense makes no sense until Tebow shows he can do one thing well.One thing.That's it. Show me something Tebow other than a keen ability to create sacks for the defense, the ability to flutter passes wildly off target and be unable to complete simple short and intermediate passes. Once you do that then maybe we can talk about tailoring the offense to your "strengths" because right now, you don't have any at the NFL level. I'm with Raider Nation. I massively overbid for Tebow when he became the starter, regretted it at the time and am sick of him now. I'm just hoping he can show some rudimentary quarterback skills. Seems like a simple enough request, doesn't it?

He hasn't been good in the shotgun but definitely better than under center. He's started five games in his career. If you made a list of quarterbacks that had a sub 50% completion rate through five starts it would include a bunch of players that went on to have a solid to great careers. Why would a team revamp its offense for a quarterback? Because it's the quarterback. If you don't want to revamp the offense then don't play him. I'd have no qualms about that.

 

[packersfan]

Can someone explain to me why a team should revamp its entire offensive approach for a quarterback who can't even complete 50% of his passes? Why is the fact Tebow has stunk in the shotgun being continually ignored? It's not like he's been great in the shotgun and awful under center. He's generally been awful regardless of the formation. So radically retooling the offense makes no sense until Tebow shows he can do one thing well.One thing.That's it. Show me something Tebow other than a keen ability to create sacks for the defense, the ability to flutter passes wildly off target and be unable to complete simple short and intermediate passes. Once you do that then maybe we can talk about tailoring the offense to your "strengths" because right now, you don't have any at the NFL level. I'm with Raider Nation. I massively overbid for Tebow when he became the starter, regretted it at the time and am sick of him now. I'm just hoping he can show some rudimentary quarterback skills. Seems like a simple enough request, doesn't it?

He hasn't been good in the shotgun but definitely better than under center. He's started five games in his career. If you made a list of quarterbacks that had a sub 50% completion rate through five starts it would include a bunch of players that went on to have a solid to great careers. Why would a team revamp its offense for a quarterback? Because it's the quarterback. If you don't want to revamp the offense then don't play him. I'd have no qualms about that.

Of those players who had sub-50% completion rates, how many of them had offenses radically redesigned and how many of them simply learned to play the position better? I can't figure out why you continue to ignore the fact that Tebow stinks in the shotgun too. He's given the Broncos nothing they can build on right now. You insist the Broncos need to do something no team in the history of the NFL has done. I'm saying perhaps it's up to Tim Tebow to do what ALL successful quarterbacks in the NFL have done.

 

[FavreCo]

shnikies is to The Tebow as the hairy scotsman is to ___________?Picked up the Raiders D in redraft. It will make The Tebow's beatdown even more enjoyable.

If I knew what that meant it would mean something. If you're inferring that I'm defending Tebow's performance then I'd like you to point out where I have done just that.

Vince Young. You think he's a viable NFL player.

 

[shnikies]

Can someone explain to me why a team should revamp its entire offensive approach for a quarterback who can't even complete 50% of his passes? Why is the fact Tebow has stunk in the shotgun being continually ignored? It's not like he's been great in the shotgun and awful under center. He's generally been awful regardless of the formation. So radically retooling the offense makes no sense until Tebow shows he can do one thing well.One thing.That's it. Show me something Tebow other than a keen ability to create sacks for the defense, the ability to flutter passes wildly off target and be unable to complete simple short and intermediate passes. Once you do that then maybe we can talk about tailoring the offense to your "strengths" because right now, you don't have any at the NFL level. I'm with Raider Nation. I massively overbid for Tebow when he became the starter, regretted it at the time and am sick of him now. I'm just hoping he can show some rudimentary quarterback skills. Seems like a simple enough request, doesn't it?

He hasn't been good in the shotgun but definitely better than under center. He's started five games in his career. If you made a list of quarterbacks that had a sub 50% completion rate through five starts it would include a bunch of players that went on to have a solid to great careers. Why would a team revamp its offense for a quarterback? Because it's the quarterback. If you don't want to revamp the offense then don't play him. I'd have no qualms about that.

Of those players who had sub-50% completion rates, how many of them had offenses radically redesigned and how many of them simply learned to play the position better? I can't figure out why you continue to ignore the fact that Tebow stinks in the shotgun too. He's given the Broncos nothing they can build on right now. You insist the Broncos need to do something no team in the history of the NFL has done. I'm saying perhaps it's up to Tim Tebow to do what ALL successful quarterbacks in the NFL have done.

26-53 270 yards 3 tds, 1 int vs 5-16 63 yards. I don't know why his shotgun stats "stink" for a guy's 4th and 5th career starts. They're not good but it's pretty unfair to say he can't improve.

 

[fatness]

I'm not defending Tebow's performance thus far but it's clear his only opportunity to succeed is in a shotgun spread offense almost exclusively.

Why should any NFL team start a QB who cannot play under center?

 

[chinawildman]

I don't think the shotgun formation is the sole determinant of Tebow's success... It's fair to say that McDaniels's offense probably had more to do with his success as well as the presence of lloyd being able to come down with some jump balls.

The OC is still the same guy however so there's a chance he can turn it around by throwing more screens and letting Tebow run more on passes on early downs. They just need to go back to the tape from last year to see what Tebow was more comfortable doing... obviously passing from the pocket is not one of them.

 

[yrforyg]

As I watched the pregame show for “Football Night in America” on Sunday, I fully expected the crew to dramatically shift course from the “Tim Tebow is a born winner” refrain to the more reasonable “Oh right, Tim Tebow can only lob knuckleballs in a general direction, which isn’t a desirable trait for a professional quarterback.” But that didn’t happen. Tony Dungy and Rodney Harrison both faulted the entire Broncos team for the blowout against the Lions, and Harrison pinned additional blame on the defense for “allowing 45 points.”

Um.

First of all, the Broncos defense — while by no means good — gave up 31 points, not 45. Two of those touchdowns were scored by the Lions defense on Tebow turnovers, the latter of which was a terrible goal-line throw that went 100 yards the other way. Tebow was sacked seven times for the second week in a row. His throws are wobbly and off-target. It’s obvious to the most casual observer that he’s overwhelmed by the pro game.

Tony Dungy was an NFL coach! Rodney Harrison played in the NFL for 15 years! Don’t lie to us, you #######s. We have EYES. We can SEE Tebow playing like dog####. It’s right there on the TV, every play that isn’t him running the option.

 

[packersfan]

So who's starting Tebow today and if so who are you starting him over? If you're sitting him, who's starting ahead of him?

 

[Warrior]

I'm not defending Tebow's performance thus far but it's clear his only opportunity to succeed is in a shotgun spread offense almost exclusively.

Why should any NFL team start a QB who cannot play under center?

Easy. Because it's what the fans want, hands down. Every team is in it for 2 things: 1) win, 2) make money.They aren't doing any of #1 anytime soon with ANY of their QBs. It's a smart decision to get as much of #2 as possible.

I don't see why this is so difficult for you guys to understand. Think outside of your little boxes.

 

[Sea Duck]

So who's starting Tebow today and if so who are you starting him over? If you're sitting him, who's starting ahead of him?

I am starting him over Flacco and Cutler in a league that gives bonus points when QBs or WRs get rushing yards/TDs.Not that I have much confidence in him. Flacco and Cutler are like a pair of jacks. Tebow is A7 offsuit and I'm going all-in with him.

 

[ExaltedOne]

So who's starting Tebow today and if so who are you starting him over? If you're sitting him, who's starting ahead of him?

I'm starting him over Freeman this week with Newton on a bye. Freeman has been inconsistent and has a thumb injury on his throwing hand so I am rolling the dice with The Tebow Thing.He's done well in my league the last couple of weeks despite his struggles. If I can get just this one good week of production from him I will be really happy.

 

[Lester Long]

So who's starting Tebow today and if so who are you starting him over? If you're sitting him, who's starting ahead of him?

I'm starting him over Freeman this week with Newton on a bye. Freeman has been inconsistent and has a thumb injury on his throwing hand so I am rolling the dice with The Tebow Thing.He's done well in my league the last couple of weeks despite his struggles. If I can get just this one good week of production from him I will be really happy.

If he is not productive I think Quinn comes in early. I would not start Tebow today if I had him in any leagues.

 

[Joe Summer]

I'm not defending Tebow's performance thus far but it's clear his only opportunity to succeed is in a shotgun spread offense almost exclusively.

Why should any NFL team start a QB who cannot play under center?

Easy. Because it's what the fans want, hands down. Every team is in it for 2 things: 1) win, 2) make money.They aren't doing any of #1 anytime soon with ANY of their QBs. It's a smart decision to get as much of #2 as possible.

I don't see why this is so difficult for you guys to understand. Think outside of your little boxes.

Pretty sure there is a reason why you are not an NFL executive.

 

[jon_mx]

I'm not defending Tebow's performance thus far but it's clear his only opportunity to succeed is in a shotgun spread offense almost exclusively.

Why should any NFL team start a QB who cannot play under center?

Easy. Because it's what the fans want, hands down. Every team is in it for 2 things: 1) win, 2) make money.They aren't doing any of #1 anytime soon with ANY of their QBs. It's a smart decision to get as much of #2 as possible.

I don't see why this is so difficult for you guys to understand. Think outside of your little boxes.

Pretty sure there is a reason why you are not an NFL executive.

Considering the Raiders just gave up potentially 2 very high draft picks for a washed up QB, I am not sure that is an insult.

 

[fatness]

I'm not defending Tebow's performance thus far but it's clear his only opportunity to succeed is in a shotgun spread offense almost exclusively.

Why should any NFL team start a QB who cannot play under center?

Easy. Because it's what the fans want, hands down. Every team is in it for 2 things: 1) win, 2) make money.They aren't doing any of #1 anytime soon with ANY of their QBs. It's a smart decision to get as much of #2 as possible.

I don't see why this is so difficult for you guys to understand. Think outside of your little boxes.

You just explained why Lindsay Lohan should start at QB.