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DYNASTY: Lance Kendricks (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hoss_Cartwright
- Start date
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
oooooooo yeaaa...thats right, that was Beckum who made that transition.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
I'm not a mind reader.Hoss, slow down and think about his post, brother. He means as a backup TE on your fantasy team.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Where in his post did he indicate it was fantasy related? He's talking about how McDaniels will use him and that he will be a good backup TE. That's all I read from that.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
www.footballguys.com
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
That made no sense. We talk about usage of players on their real NFL team all the time in the shark pool. I sure as hell don't want to get into a pissing contest over such mundane things. I'm just saying if you mean for it to be fantasy related, state it. I guess if you read the post he was replying to you could read between the lines
Anyway, back to the subject of Kendricks......
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T with T
Footballguy
I am not here to pat myself on the back but Im usually good at snatching stud tes before they are even on the radar.. A few years ago I heard Rodgers loved Finley and was saying how he was the best Redzone guy on the team and I picked him up before he even played a reg season game. I also picked up Gates years ago before he even played a game... This year I snagged Kendricks in almost every league that I could and absolutely love the guys potential, situation and what Im hearing from Camp. I believe he has 60-70 catch production with 800-900 yards and 8-9 tds as a rookie.. KENDRICKS=BEAST
I always struggle with knowing how much the "regular" FF guy knows compared to the Shark Pool FF guy. But among people that watch this closely, there isn't a more hyped receiver so far than Kendricks. Nice article today from Bryan Burwell http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bryan-burwell/article_8c246708-1a9a-532a-97e2-fb0b45de1fac.html
J
J
FavreAndAwayAnIdiot
Footballguy
Like how Danario Alexander is getting noticed again after a slow start to camp.
baconisgood
Footballguy
I don't think it is fair to say he didn't use Watson. Watson had 49/643/3 in 13 games as a third year player in McDaniels first official season as coordinator, Welker and Moss came in the next year.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
hauser42
Footballguy
I know I am going to be called a homer, but Kendricks should be getting the love.Rams WR situation is unknown with a bunch of solid players but no superstart. These guys could very easily be rotated around all season long. Right now Kendricks should be the starting TE and create a lot of chances for himself. You could say he is the one sure starting recieving threat for the Rams at this point.'Joe Bryant said:
McDaniels loves to throw the ball but what happen in NE is minimal, Bellicheck runs that team. McDaniel had some input but not enough to change the game plan. NE also did not have an athletic TE like Kendricks during his time.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
'T with T said:
bulger2holt
Footballguy
with no real verticle threats, look for Bradford to be throwing underneath a lot again this year. Amendola and Kendricks are the guys to have. Avery and DX will never be healthy enough to play many games, and MSW is already nursing a sore groin.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
For me it's more about the following factors:1) no true WR#1 on the team (common with many of the top receiving TEs historically)'Joe Bryant said:
2) Bradford is a prodigy and the real deal, one of only a handful of rookie QBs that put up his rookie numbers
3) McDaniels loves to pass the ball
4) The Rams only "big" endzone target
Even if you believe Kendricks is a mediocre talent you'd have to take the above into account.
I would not be surprised if he caught 80 balls this year, althought that's not what I have him projected for.
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Just want to put a little perspective here as a guy who reads the Post Dispatch online everyday. Burwell is not a good source for Rams news. Guy writes rah rah fluff pieces for a living and should be on the marketing payroll of the Rams and Cards. If you want objective opinions on the Rams you have to follow Miklasz. Jim Thomas and Jeff Gordon also do a creditable job. But Burwell? No.
Kendrick, from what we've seen should be a decent value as TE2 in redraft and could surprise. OTOH McDaniels should put together one good season for a TE before we put our faith in what he says. This feels a lot like Martz last year telling us how good Olsen was and how they were gonna use him. Uh Huh. Just show us one year and then we can believe.
The bigger problem for me is the statement that Kendrick is better long term than Thomas. For dynasty purposes I think that is way off the mark. Even with a conservative Fox running the show in Denver, Thomas has top 5 upside where Kendrick projects to be a borderline #1. He can put up Heath Miller numbers this year and be a value drafted late but beyond that forget it.
Other fringe #1's that can be had around his ADP include M Lewis, Cook, Winslow and Celek. All of which are better gambles than Kendrick.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Wow, I guess we will see. I guess you don't see the athletic ability of Kendricks and the upside. That's your right, but you're dead wrong.
That's a pretty big qualifier in the last sentence. What do you have him projected for? I'll say 45/ 500/ 6 And I feel that's his ceiling. He's still a rook after all.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
I have him projected at 64/720/6I project ranges, but the above is the weighted average.
Everybody loves the new guys and that's ok. But he'll have his bumps along the way. The guys I mentioned are all acclimated to the NFL and missing the OTAs wont have as big an impact on them so I value them a little higher.
McDaniels has yet to produce a stud TE and that downgrades Kendrick a little more. Bradford's ability is the big reason we are even discussing a rook TE that could breakout. I'll give it a year.
So you think he could out perform 64/720/6? How high does your range go?
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
My point is not with the established guys. Sure he will have his bumps, but the point of this thread was there really isn't anymore upside to Thomas as there is for Kendricks. His athletic ability was front and center last night and his upside is just as good and in my mind better than Julius Thomas. Throw in his situation and it's even better.
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LHUCKS
Footballguy
I hate having this discussion because everybody flips out on this board...mostly because they don't understand the concept.So best case scenario I have the following high-end projection. I have the likelihood at roughly 5%
78/1180/9
I have him stealing a lot of Amendolas redzone work, similar ceiling as yours, but less yards and possibly 10-11 TDs
Well I wont flip out at a 5% chance of anything. Roughly 1 time in 20 a guy with this skill set in this situation will post these numbers. That's a pretty low probability. Almost unattainable.
While TDs are flukey and he could have 9 the biggest problem I have with this projection is 1180 yds. That's probably more like 2% attainable. Or even 1%.
Like I said earlier there are better gambles out there.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
ST. LOUIS — The difficulty in watching preseason football is that sometimes there’s just too much activity for the untrained eye to follow.
Too many numbers to account for, too many names you don’t know. Too much confusion when the first unit goes against the second unit, the third unit is on the field against the second, all at the whims of tinkering coordinators.
Yet the more discerning eye understands how to find clarity amidst the confusion. The fine art to watching the NFL in August is all in the details of knowing how all those puzzle pieces fit. The sooner you grasp that concept, the better chance you have at understanding what really matters in these elaborate, head-knocking job auditions.
On Saturday at the Edward Jones Dome, there were quite a few nifty puzzle pieces on display during the Rams impressive 33-10 victory over Indianapolis, particularly if you focused on the intriguing potential for the revamped offense.
What we’ve already gleaned from only one quarter of action with starting quarterback Sam Bradford on the field is that he’s quickly developed a new security blanket in rookie tight end Lance Kendricks, whose NFL debut was rather impressive. The 6-foot-3, 243-pound Kendricks looks to be as good as advertised, a reliable match-up headache between the hash marks for any linebacker or safety who draws the unfortunate task of trying to chase him down. Kendricks caught five passes for 47 yards and one touchdown in the first half from, making receptions from Bradford and A.J. Feeley, on a fascinating gallop up and down the pass-route tree.
Bradford targeted Kendricks on four of his 11 first-quarter attempts and connected with him on three of his six first-quarter completions. Even though he had two drops — and by his own admission, made some assignment mistakes, too — Kendricks knows how to get open and do something once he catches the ball. And his best play of the night might have been one in which the ball not only wasn’t thrown to him, but he initially lined up in the wrong place.
On the Rams’ third possession, on a second-and-eight from the Indianapolis 14 yard line, Kendricks lined up out of position before the snap of the ball but quickly corrected himself in time to not only line up properly but run a near-perfect seam route down the right hash marks. That left him wide open in the end zone on a play Bradford instead dished to slot receiver Danny Amedola for a 2-yard gain.
So for all those folks who were scratching their heads last April when the Rams selected the big kid out of Wisconsin in the second round, this was the first of what should be many emphatic answers as to how effectively he should fit into offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels’ Sunday plans. When McDaniels was hired last winter, one of the points he continued to emphasize about this offense was how it would have the ability to attack the opposing defenses by "stressing" the defense just as much as stretching it.
The idea is to always find the weakness in the defense, probing with any number of weapons until eventually the defense’s fatal flaw reveals itself. Most people believe that the best weapon to attack a defense is with a deep-threat receiver who can stretch the field by sprinting down the sideline. And while McDaniels does believe in attacking downfield, what he mostly loves doing is piecing a defense with surgical incisions all over the place, and having an athletic tight end who can become a match-up nightmare for over-matched linebackers. So Kendricks is part of what could make this offense fun.
"That’s part of Josh’s philosophy," Bradford said. "The ball gets spread around to everyone on the field and that way it does put stress on the defense. I think what you saw from Kendricks tonight was him playing so many positions and running so many different route combinations, and I would only imagine that it’s going to continue to grow."
But there are more pieces that need to be added to McDaniels’ offensive puzzle before we can make any lasting judgments about the potential for its long-term effectiveness. One of the other highlights of the night was discovering the value of raising the talent level and competitive atmosphere in the offensive backfield. All of a sudden, with newly-acquired Cadillac Williams (11 carries, 40 yards, 1 TD and a 3.6 yards-per-carry average) and Jerious Norwood (8 carries, 37 yards, 4.6 average) making their Rams debuts — and with holdover Keith Toston raising his game to a new level (11 carries, 64 yards, 1 TD, 5.8 yard average) — the offense looks like it has more weapons in the backfield to accompany Pro Bowler Steven Jackson.
Yet there are a few more pieces that need to be added to the puzzle to make it complete.
Stretching the defense is equally important as stressing it, and the two best stretching receivers on this roster — Mike Sims-Walker and Danario Alexander — need to be on the field at the same time on opposite sides. Sims-Walker tweaked his groin and wasn’t on the field for more than a few plays, and Alexander didn’t get into the game until the second quarter with the second string. But once he got in, Alexander showed the same big-play capability flashes he displayed during his injury-stalled rookie year. He averaged 14.3 yards on three receptions, was credited with a touchdown on a deflected ball before the refs overturned it on replay. And there was another deep route in the third quarter that he nearly hauled in on a jump ball down the sidelines.
But the final results of the night for Alexander should have been ruled positive, because he was the only Rams wide receiver who showed that he is a legitimate threat to stretch the defense.
As this preseason continues to play out, we’re going to have to see Alexander and Sims-Walker force defenses out of those schemes.
Too many numbers to account for, too many names you don’t know. Too much confusion when the first unit goes against the second unit, the third unit is on the field against the second, all at the whims of tinkering coordinators.
Yet the more discerning eye understands how to find clarity amidst the confusion. The fine art to watching the NFL in August is all in the details of knowing how all those puzzle pieces fit. The sooner you grasp that concept, the better chance you have at understanding what really matters in these elaborate, head-knocking job auditions.
On Saturday at the Edward Jones Dome, there were quite a few nifty puzzle pieces on display during the Rams impressive 33-10 victory over Indianapolis, particularly if you focused on the intriguing potential for the revamped offense.
What we’ve already gleaned from only one quarter of action with starting quarterback Sam Bradford on the field is that he’s quickly developed a new security blanket in rookie tight end Lance Kendricks, whose NFL debut was rather impressive. The 6-foot-3, 243-pound Kendricks looks to be as good as advertised, a reliable match-up headache between the hash marks for any linebacker or safety who draws the unfortunate task of trying to chase him down. Kendricks caught five passes for 47 yards and one touchdown in the first half from, making receptions from Bradford and A.J. Feeley, on a fascinating gallop up and down the pass-route tree.
Bradford targeted Kendricks on four of his 11 first-quarter attempts and connected with him on three of his six first-quarter completions. Even though he had two drops — and by his own admission, made some assignment mistakes, too — Kendricks knows how to get open and do something once he catches the ball. And his best play of the night might have been one in which the ball not only wasn’t thrown to him, but he initially lined up in the wrong place.
On the Rams’ third possession, on a second-and-eight from the Indianapolis 14 yard line, Kendricks lined up out of position before the snap of the ball but quickly corrected himself in time to not only line up properly but run a near-perfect seam route down the right hash marks. That left him wide open in the end zone on a play Bradford instead dished to slot receiver Danny Amedola for a 2-yard gain.
So for all those folks who were scratching their heads last April when the Rams selected the big kid out of Wisconsin in the second round, this was the first of what should be many emphatic answers as to how effectively he should fit into offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels’ Sunday plans. When McDaniels was hired last winter, one of the points he continued to emphasize about this offense was how it would have the ability to attack the opposing defenses by "stressing" the defense just as much as stretching it.
The idea is to always find the weakness in the defense, probing with any number of weapons until eventually the defense’s fatal flaw reveals itself. Most people believe that the best weapon to attack a defense is with a deep-threat receiver who can stretch the field by sprinting down the sideline. And while McDaniels does believe in attacking downfield, what he mostly loves doing is piecing a defense with surgical incisions all over the place, and having an athletic tight end who can become a match-up nightmare for over-matched linebackers. So Kendricks is part of what could make this offense fun.
"That’s part of Josh’s philosophy," Bradford said. "The ball gets spread around to everyone on the field and that way it does put stress on the defense. I think what you saw from Kendricks tonight was him playing so many positions and running so many different route combinations, and I would only imagine that it’s going to continue to grow."
But there are more pieces that need to be added to McDaniels’ offensive puzzle before we can make any lasting judgments about the potential for its long-term effectiveness. One of the other highlights of the night was discovering the value of raising the talent level and competitive atmosphere in the offensive backfield. All of a sudden, with newly-acquired Cadillac Williams (11 carries, 40 yards, 1 TD and a 3.6 yards-per-carry average) and Jerious Norwood (8 carries, 37 yards, 4.6 average) making their Rams debuts — and with holdover Keith Toston raising his game to a new level (11 carries, 64 yards, 1 TD, 5.8 yard average) — the offense looks like it has more weapons in the backfield to accompany Pro Bowler Steven Jackson.
Yet there are a few more pieces that need to be added to the puzzle to make it complete.
Stretching the defense is equally important as stressing it, and the two best stretching receivers on this roster — Mike Sims-Walker and Danario Alexander — need to be on the field at the same time on opposite sides. Sims-Walker tweaked his groin and wasn’t on the field for more than a few plays, and Alexander didn’t get into the game until the second quarter with the second string. But once he got in, Alexander showed the same big-play capability flashes he displayed during his injury-stalled rookie year. He averaged 14.3 yards on three receptions, was credited with a touchdown on a deflected ball before the refs overturned it on replay. And there was another deep route in the third quarter that he nearly hauled in on a jump ball down the sidelines.
But the final results of the night for Alexander should have been ruled positive, because he was the only Rams wide receiver who showed that he is a legitimate threat to stretch the defense.
As this preseason continues to play out, we’re going to have to see Alexander and Sims-Walker force defenses out of those schemes.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Hi Hoss, I know you love the guy and I do too but in general, that's not the best way to encourage discussion on the topic. You've got way more to bring to the boards than that. (and if you weren't a good poster, I wouldn't even say anything)Thanks.
J
smackdaddies
Footballguy
As much as I love all Badgers, current and former, and as much as I disagree with most everything the Lhuck pitches, I have to agree with those numbers 64/720/6 as good projections
bulger2holt
Footballguy
Bradford and the Rams like Big Illinios Mike too. So it's not like Kendricks will be the only TE security blanket for SB. But, Big Mike is hurt a lot, and if he is, then Kendricks gets a huge bump. He would definitely be worth to start in 12 team leagues, especially PPR.
doowain
Footballguy
I'm not sure why Kendricks having a great camp has anything to do with Julius Thomas' dynasty prospects. They are both solid rookie picks with considerable upside. Until recently, you could get Julius Thomas in the 4th round of rookie drafts (or even off the waiver wire). Kendricks was routinely going in the late 2nd to mid 3rd.
Given Julius' upside vs. current cost, I'd rather have him. You are most likely drafting one of these guys as your TE3 or TE4. And, in that case, I'd take the guy who has Top 3 upside in Thomas. When I'm drafting or trading for position depth (not starters), I evaluate the player, not the situation. STL vs. DEN doesn't even enter into my decision. Thomas is more raw than Kendricks, but has that upper tier difference making ability that I'd rather gamble on and groom from my bench.
Point is....redraft I go Kendricks. Dynasty, gimme Thomas.
Given Julius' upside vs. current cost, I'd rather have him. You are most likely drafting one of these guys as your TE3 or TE4. And, in that case, I'd take the guy who has Top 3 upside in Thomas. When I'm drafting or trading for position depth (not starters), I evaluate the player, not the situation. STL vs. DEN doesn't even enter into my decision. Thomas is more raw than Kendricks, but has that upper tier difference making ability that I'd rather gamble on and groom from my bench.
Point is....redraft I go Kendricks. Dynasty, gimme Thomas.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
I believe Kendricks has that same upper tier upside as Thomas, only he's closer to it than Thomas and he's in a better situation. Give me Kendricks regardless of league format.
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
You're right Joe and I've been trying very hard not to come across that strong. I'll keep trying.
J
TheFanatic
Footballguy
One thing to temper the enthusiasm, very few TE's have an impact their rookie season... Gronk and Hernandez did last year, but I think you can count the rest on one hand including those two...
mr roboto
Footballguy
Took him (3.07) 4 spots after Rudolph but before Thomas . But I have Finley, Hernandez, and Gresham. Hoping to trade one of the later 2 for a draft pick this year.
I really think TE is a booming position in the league now. We can start 2 (1 WR/TE flex) and I intend on having good, young TE's to use/trade moving forward.
I really think TE is a booming position in the league now. We can start 2 (1 WR/TE flex) and I intend on having good, young TE's to use/trade moving forward.
hauser42
Footballguy
First of Hoss, sorry for not being clear on the TE2. You are right a ton of stuff is talked about in the Shark Pool just not fantasy.
Watching Kendricks play at UW every week he was in there, they guy is athletic and will be a matchup problem. Now he isn't being covered by guys from Northwestern or Minnesota, but still will be effective. Lot to like about him with the scheme, QB and lack of a dominant Red Zone target on team.
Watching Kendricks play at UW every week he was in there, they guy is athletic and will be a matchup problem. Now he isn't being covered by guys from Northwestern or Minnesota, but still will be effective. Lot to like about him with the scheme, QB and lack of a dominant Red Zone target on team.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I have to admit Kendricks was very impressive in first preseason game.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
it is indeed very rare
FavreAndAwayAnIdiot
Footballguy
However... How many started out being the 'star of camp' and then factored in quite a bit during the first preseason game, scoring the first TD?
bigmiiiiike
Footballguy
Ah yes, the famous last words, THIS time is different...
I wouldnt use the hype to measure it. But I think a better question to ask, is how long has been the shift in TEs been going on, less than 10 years? I think this year the position utilization will be changed forever. Having an every down utility player (or two) is just such a huge advantage if it can be pulled off.'bigmiiiiike said:Ah yes, the famous last words, THIS time is different...'FavreAndAwayAnIdiot said:
pghrob
Hail to the Chief
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/30550/julius-thomas-speedy-transition
Julius Thomas' speedy transition
By Bill Williamson
ESPN.com
ENGLEWOOD, Co. -- Two summers ago, Julius Thomas was practicing his jump shot at Portland State.
Thursday night, he was at Cowboys’ Stadium, facing Dallas’ first-team defense.
“There was DeMarcus Ware, it was crazy,” Denver’s rookie tight end said Saturday of his first NFL game experience. “I had to calm myself down … I realized it was the highest level. If I could play at that level, I can make it.”
Thomas has been one of the stories of Denver’s camp. He was a fourth-round pick despite playing just year of college football and one year of high school football. Denver dedicated the valuable pick on the raw player because of his immense athletic ability and his ability to improve quickly. So far, the pick doesn’t appear to be a wasted one.
Thomas has shined at practices, becoming a red-zone favorite of quarterback Kyle Orton. Thomas is a getting a lot of action with the first team, which is an indication the transition hasn’t been difficult for him.
“I’m just here to learning,” Thomas said. “That's what it's all about for me. I just want to learn every day.”
If Thomas continues to progress, he will have a chance to play often in the regular season. He said his time with the first-team in camp has kept him on his toes.
“I you are practicing with the (third team) and you make a mistake, well, OK, you make a mistake,” Thomas said. “But if you make a mistake with the first team team, you have Kyle Orton or Brandon Lloyd on you. They are there to practice. They don’t have time for a rookie to make a mistake … the pressure is there to improve quickly.”
The Julius Thomas story is looking a lot like the Antonio Gates rookie story. Don't wait too long to get Thomas or you will miss out.
Newspaper Clipping #1 for Rookie Gates
Newspaper Clipping #2 for Rookie Gates (2nd to last bullet in column on left titled, "Report - The News in the National Football League")
Julius Thomas' speedy transition
By Bill Williamson
ESPN.com
ENGLEWOOD, Co. -- Two summers ago, Julius Thomas was practicing his jump shot at Portland State.
Thursday night, he was at Cowboys’ Stadium, facing Dallas’ first-team defense.
“There was DeMarcus Ware, it was crazy,” Denver’s rookie tight end said Saturday of his first NFL game experience. “I had to calm myself down … I realized it was the highest level. If I could play at that level, I can make it.”
Thomas has been one of the stories of Denver’s camp. He was a fourth-round pick despite playing just year of college football and one year of high school football. Denver dedicated the valuable pick on the raw player because of his immense athletic ability and his ability to improve quickly. So far, the pick doesn’t appear to be a wasted one.
Thomas has shined at practices, becoming a red-zone favorite of quarterback Kyle Orton. Thomas is a getting a lot of action with the first team, which is an indication the transition hasn’t been difficult for him.
“I’m just here to learning,” Thomas said. “That's what it's all about for me. I just want to learn every day.”
If Thomas continues to progress, he will have a chance to play often in the regular season. He said his time with the first-team in camp has kept him on his toes.
“I you are practicing with the (third team) and you make a mistake, well, OK, you make a mistake,” Thomas said. “But if you make a mistake with the first team team, you have Kyle Orton or Brandon Lloyd on you. They are there to practice. They don’t have time for a rookie to make a mistake … the pressure is there to improve quickly.”
The Julius Thomas story is looking a lot like the Antonio Gates rookie story. Don't wait too long to get Thomas or you will miss out.
Newspaper Clipping #1 for Rookie Gates
Newspaper Clipping #2 for Rookie Gates (2nd to last bullet in column on left titled, "Report - The News in the National Football League")
I took the top 25 rookie TE seasons since 1985 in FPs and divided out their games played- the average is 4.37 FP/g. The best rookie outing was Keith Jackson with 7.68 fp/gBy comparison if you take the top 25 TE seasons of all experiences, the average is 10.14 FP/g. The best outing was Gates with 11.62 fp/gWhat does it mean? Well in 2010, TE12 was Pettigrew with 6.01 FP/g. So the worst starting TE is still better than the 'average' top rookie season, and scored 78% of the points of the best rookie outing of all time.I'd say Fanatic is statistically correct.
TheGrimReaper
Footballguy
Is that PPR or not? Im thinking not based on the low PPG scores. Factoring the recpts back in changes things. What you have uncovered (and thank you for the work BTW )
is the impact at a difficult position to learn 1st year, and the lack of TD impact for rookie TE's.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Not really sure why you posted this here. You know JT has his own thread right?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I took him at 1.13 in MOX leagues where TEs get 1.5 ppr vs 1 ppr for WR and .5 for RBs.
Probably early but I wanted him. He went at like 2.06 in another MOX where I didnt have a pick.
Probably early but I wanted him. He went at like 2.06 in another MOX where I didnt have a pick.
