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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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it would be funny if Gordon played 14 games and put up lame numbers like 60/800/5. and I say that as an owner

Yes, it would. It would be pretty entertaining, actually. I'd also probably love it.

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JosinaAnderson: NFLPA Source: NFLPA executive committee has received email notification about a conference call scheduled for 4pm. today

Bam.

:packsbowl:

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https://t.co/AMSDjvvmRE Seems like poor reporting going on as this indicates nobody getting suspended 8 games.

No, it doesn't. He clearly at about the :27 mark states that they fought very hard to have it retroactive so that positive tests "from the end of last season through..." Gordon's positive test supposedly was from prior to the end of last season (some time in December).

Per Feely's own words, the new standards wouldn't necessarily apply to Gordon.

he goes on to say that its unfair if one person is suspended for 4 games and another is not depending on the timing of his test. He also presented this when they asked him about Josh Gordon. He went as far as presenting a theoretical case. I cant believe you saw the same video I did and came up with your conclusion, but each has a right to their own opinion.

He also in his hypothetical says "... and his THC level was minute". Who else could that possibly refer to?

I agree with these points as well. That's why it's still up in the air per my previous post. Different conclusions can easily be drawn from that Feely segment. He was being careful with his words, he stopped in his words when it was pretty clear he was talking about just Gordon. I want him back Sunday just as much as anyone else that does. But I'm not getting my hopes up completely for the usual Browns letdown.

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

Edited by Captain Quinoa
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I love this thread. I love the loyal Joshists. I love the haters. I love the rampant speculation that is right then wrong then right then wrong then completely ambiguous. This is the greatest thread the shark pool has ever seen.

Incorrect. This still holds the title.

This thread has 25x more pages than that thread.

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I love this thread. I love the loyal Joshists. I love the haters. I love the rampant speculation that is right then wrong then right then wrong then completely ambiguous. This is the greatest thread the shark pool has ever seen.

Incorrect. This still holds the title.

That was a good thread, but this one is better.

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it would be funny if Gordon played 14 games and put up lame numbers like 60/800/5. and I say that as an owner

It is certainly a possibility.....Either way this thread is going to live on...those bragging about his numbers or those...needling the others about his lack of numbers...I think we would be remiss if we didn't invite Josh to join our forum, he has been around for so long that I feel like he is family at this point.

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https://t.co/AMSDjvvmRE Seems like poor reporting going on as this indicates nobody getting suspended 8 games.

No, it doesn't. He clearly at about the :27 mark states that they fought very hard to have it retroactive so that positive tests "from the end of last season through..." Gordon's positive test supposedly was from prior to the end of last season (some time in December).

Per Feely's own words, the new standards wouldn't necessarily apply to Gordon.

he goes on to say that its unfair if one person is suspended for 4 games and another is not depending on the timing of his test. He also presented this when they asked him about Josh Gordon. He went as far as presenting a theoretical case. I cant believe you saw the same video I did and came up with your conclusion, but each has a right to their own opinion.

Agreed. Feely correctly noted that the timing of failed test is a morally arbitrary factor and hence it would be unjust to use it as a determining factor when applying the new policy. e.g., It would be unfair to apply the new standards to a player who was tested in 3/2014 and not do the same for a player who failed a test in 12/2013. Indeed, something would be amiss in Feely's reasoning if he wasn't also advocating for Gordon to be grandfathered in to the new policy as well.

Why would it be more fair to apply the new standards to a test failed in December 2013 than a test in November 2013 or October 2013 or September 2013 or any other month during the 2013 season? Or, go even further back?

No matter what, the determining date is going to be arbitrary.

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is this, potentially, one of the biggest fantasy football swings in recent memory?

i mean this assumes that he plays at a level similar to last season....having this guy come on waivers, or be snagged free in some cases, and then play most of the season that is a huge swing, the biggest non injury swing i can recall

the biggest positive swing

I was just thinking that. It could be the type of swing that really changes how long people hold out hope when their studs get suspended during the season.

it could completely turn the fortunes of teams, again assuming that he plays most of the season and plays at his previous levels (neither of which is a given)

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is this, potentially, one of the biggest fantasy football swings in recent memory?

i mean this assumes that he plays at a level similar to last season....having this guy come on waivers, or be snagged free in some cases, and then play most of the season that is a huge swing, the biggest non injury swing i can recall

the biggest positive swing

It really is potentially amazing. I'm sure there were plenty of people like me who had to get rid of Gordon in keeper leagues (not dynasty), what else was I to do on 8/28? Now I lost him in that league potentially forever, but grabbed him in two redrafts a week later for free not even off waivers where he went undrafted. Rod Streater for Josh Gordon...thank you! Crazy.

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https://t.co/AMSDjvvmRE Seems like poor reporting going on as this indicates nobody getting suspended 8 games.

No, it doesn't. He clearly at about the :27 mark states that they fought very hard to have it retroactive so that positive tests "from the end of last season through..." Gordon's positive test supposedly was from prior to the end of last season (some time in December).

Per Feely's own words, the new standards wouldn't necessarily apply to Gordon.

he goes on to say that its unfair if one person is suspended for 4 games and another is not depending on the timing of his test. He also presented this when they asked him about Josh Gordon. He went as far as presenting a theoretical case. I cant believe you saw the same video I did and came up with your conclusion, but each has a right to their own opinion.

Agreed. Feely correctly noted that the timing of failed test is a morally arbitrary factor and hence it would be unjust to use it as a determining factor when applying the new policy. e.g., It would be unfair to apply the new standards to a player who was tested in 3/2014 and not do the same for a player who failed a test in 12/2013. Indeed, something would be amiss in Feely's reasoning if he wasn't also advocating for Gordon to be grandfathered in to the new policy as well.

Why would it be more fair to apply the new standards to a test failed in December 2013 than a test in November 2013 or October 2013 or September 2013 or any other month during the 2013 season? Or, go even further back?

No matter what, the determining date is going to be arbitrary.

Not necessarily. They could word the new policy in such a manner that it will apply to all players currently being disciplined under the old one.

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

Assuming Florio's got the goods, then Gordon's suspension should be lifted completely.

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I don't get the NFL's position. They need to get all of this out of the news cycle ASAP. The worst part is a story that has a harsher penalty for THC traces than beating a woman unconscious and an 8 game suspension would keep that story alive for another two months.

Here's what I want to know. Would this wipe the slate clean for everybody and let them start fresh under a new CBA and drug policy? Wouldn't that be the clean way to do it?

This is actually a very good question......If there remains a staging system in place what stage would Gordon be at, with a new agreement, or will they start clean as bjabrad mentions....yet to be seen.

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Im smiling

So hard.

if he is cleared and then you post a picutre of yourself in a gordon jersey holding a penny and a sign that says "told you so" it will seal this as the best shark pool thread ever

in fact i would demand that right after your post they lock the thread and call it perfection

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Its crazy how so many different "sources" say different things. Watching NFL Insiders and they are still reporting 8 games for Gordon because his failed test was in the prior league year. I really hope the Florio/Feely stuff is true and he's reinstated immediately because I don't want to spend the next 2 months hoping he doesn't get popped again before I get some production out him.

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man who do I bench now ;)

The guy who hasn't been reinstated yet and may not see the field for another 7 weeks even after being reinstated.

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It would be as if someone in every league gets a free Calvin Johnson from free agency. Horse s**t.

U MAD BRO?

Big load of s**t if Gordon is reinstated.

:violin:

The reaction from non Gordon owners are coming to a head like a glorious climax...

:lol::pickle:

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Me thinks Geico doesn't like their Ickey Woods commercial being credited as an ESPN commercial... Love it though... Get some cold cuts!!

"I watched that great ESPN commercial on my iPad while I was on the NFL sidelines drinking my Powerade."

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

He tested positive in December 2013.

The sentence is confusing for Josh Gordon's case.

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

He tested positive in December 2013.

The sentence is confusing for Josh Gordon's case.

read the 2nd half of it.

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

He tested positive in December 2013.

The sentence is confusing for Josh Gordon's case.

OR

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

He tested positive in December 2013.

The sentence is confusing for Josh Gordon's case.

I read it as, "all players who tested positive, were disciplined or were placed into the drug or PED program after March 11, 2014, will have retroactivity." Gordon was disciplined in April, after the March 11, 2014, date. He'd fall into the second group from that sentence ("were disciplined . . . after March 11, 2014), and would have retroactivity.

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New rules

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

He was not disciplined until April.

He tested positive in December 2013.

The sentence is confusing for Josh Gordon's case.

OR

Yep yep.

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is this, potentially, one of the biggest fantasy football swings in recent memory?

i mean this assumes that he plays at a level similar to last season....having this guy come on waivers, or be snagged free in some cases, and then play most of the season that is a huge swing, the biggest non injury swing i can recall

the biggest positive swing

I was just thinking that. It could be the type of swing that really changes how long people hold out hope when their studs get suspended during the season.

it could completely turn the fortunes of teams, again assuming that he plays most of the season and plays at his previous levels (neither of which is a given)

I'd say he'd perform just above his previous level for half the season and just below that threshold for the rest of the season... Passable ;-)

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Disciplinary Appeals.

Any player who is notified by the NFL Management Council that he is subject to

a fine or suspension (hereafter “discipline”) for violation of the terms of this

Policy may appeal such discipline directly to the Commissioner. A player must do

so in writing within five (5) days of receiving notice from the NFL that he is

subject to discipline. In his appeal, the player may not present grievances that

have not been raised in a timely manner in accordance with this Article V, nor

may he present defenses to the imposition of discipline that are the subject of

“Other Appeals” set forth in Section A.2., below.



-------------------------


You have 5 days to appeal a handed down suspension


Gordon's appeal was filed about 2 months ago.


Far after March 11.


Kapow

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The final revision has more changes. Item #2, we all heard the magic number 50 ng/ml. This is now at 35 ng/ml. More changes everywhere. This is why the Wednesday vote never took place. They had to negotiate. Josh Gordon falls under item #3. Either way, the final revision, if voted today will enable him for a full reinstatement.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/12/revised-drug-policy-will-have-various-new-features/related/

"1. An independent arbitrator will hear appeals for under both the substance-abuse policy and the PED policy. The NFL and NFLPA will jointly select, approve, and pay for a pool of three-to-five arbitrators.

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml; the Olympic standard is 150 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

5. Amphetamines taken without a Therapeutic Use Exemption during the offseason will be evaluated under the substance-abuse policy. During the season, a positive test without a TUE will continue to be a violation of the PED policy.

6. Testing for hGH will occur in the 2014 season. There will be no population study, but the players will have the ability to challenge the science during the appeal process. No blood samples will be collected on game days.

7. Independent investigators will be retained to review cases of breached confidentiality. Any employers of the league, the teams, the union, players, and agents found to be in violation of the confidentiality provision will face fines of up to $500,000, termination of employment, or other discipline."

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Im smiling

So hard.

if he is cleared and then you post a picutre of yourself in a gordon jersey holding a penny and a sign that says "told you so" it will seal this as the best shark pool thread ever

in fact i would demand that right after your post they lock the thread and call it perfection

:lmao: , easy there, tig

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Im smiling

So hard.

if he is cleared and then you post a picutre of yourself in a gordon jersey holding a penny and a sign that says "told you so" it will seal this as the best shark pool thread ever

in fact i would demand that right after your post they lock the thread and call it perfection

I second this!!

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35 ng/ml is still pretty lame. But hey, it's a step. And it FREESJOSH!

Edited by Bobcat10

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"@GeorgeAtallah: If the NFLPA player representatives decide to vote on a proposal, it would be to authorize NFLPA negotiators to agree with the NFL over..."

"@GeorgeAtallah: ...the terms of the policy changes contained in the term sheet. After that, the NFL and NFLPA will finalize the drafts of the full policies."

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LaConfora just Tweeted:

"@GeorgeAtallah: For clarity and accuracy on the negotiations for new drug policies, some important information to follow:"

In case anyone was wondering, like I was, George Atallah is the: Assistant Executive Director of External Affairs at the NFLPA

His Twitter feed is pretty salty too.

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The final revision has more changes. Item #2, we all heard the magic number 50 ng/ml. This is now at 35 ng/ml. More changes everywhere. This is why the Wednesday vote never took place. They had to negotiate. Josh Gordon falls under item #3. Either way, the final revision, if voted today will enable him for a full reinstatement.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/12/revised-drug-policy-will-have-various-new-features/related/

"1. An independent arbitrator will hear appeals for under both the substance-abuse policy and the PED policy. The NFL and NFLPA will jointly select, approve, and pay for a pool of three-to-five arbitrators.

2. The threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml. The prior limit was 15 ng/ml; the Olympic standard is 150 ng/ml. Also, the policy will have additional steps for players who test positive for the substance, before an initial suspension.

3. All players who tested positive or who were otherwise disciplined or placed into the drug or PED program will have retroactivity, with the new rules being reapplied as of March 11, 2014.

4. A two-game suspension will be issued upon conviction for driving under the influence. However, there will be no action taken after a DUI arrest, as the NFL initially had proposed.

5. Amphetamines taken without a Therapeutic Use Exemption during the offseason will be evaluated under the substance-abuse policy. During the season, a positive test without a TUE will continue to be a violation of the PED policy.

6. Testing for hGH will occur in the 2014 season. There will be no population study, but the players will have the ability to challenge the science during the appeal process. No blood samples will be collected on game days.

7. Independent investigators will be retained to review cases of breached confidentiality. Any employers of the league, the teams, the union, players, and agents found to be in violation of the confidentiality provision will face fines of up to $500,000, termination of employment, or other discipline."

that's a big concession

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"@GeorgeAtallah: For clarity and accuracy on the negotiations for new drug policies, some important information to follow:"

George AtallahVerified account@GeorgeAtallah

.@jwalt2112 @TonyGrossi @ericwinston do either of you know the details of his situation? Or of what we are trying to negotiate? Ok then.

George AtallahVerified account @GeorgeAtallah 1h
@ericzstacey @jwalt2112 @TonyGrossi @ericwinston proud of the work we have done for players' rights. Good luck in your fantasty football

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I guarantee the players vote this down if it doesn't free Josh.

Even BAL/PIT/CIN players? ;)

Yes, any of them could be sitting next to someone lighting up without their knowledge and they could find themselves or their teammates in the same situation as the unfortunate Josh.

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