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*****OFFICIAL FORMULA ONE GRAND PRIX THREAD***** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter cosjobs
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Eephus
Footballguy
Hats off to Lewis for making it seem easy again. It was pretty comical to watch Leclerc get picked off by a car every lap in the DRS zone but both Ferraris finished in the points for #1000.
It's probably only a matter of time before the FIA goes to standing starts after all safety cars. That would have been preferable to the bunch up that led to they first red flag. My recording cut off so I didn't see what happened to drop Russell on the last restart when he had a hold on 9th place. There won't be many better opportunities for Williams to pick up points.
Sochi next in two week's time. Too bad it's a crap circuit.
It's probably only a matter of time before the FIA goes to standing starts after all safety cars. That would have been preferable to the bunch up that led to they first red flag. My recording cut off so I didn't see what happened to drop Russell on the last restart when he had a hold on 9th place. There won't be many better opportunities for Williams to pick up points.
Sochi next in two week's time. Too bad it's a crap circuit.
They were focused on the front on the last re-start - but there was a comment in the broadcast that Russell just had a bad restart, he made up a little ground, but obviously not enough.Eephus said:
But, yeah, hard to envision a better opportunity for Russell to grab a point than when almost half the field are taken out. Between that and Ricciardo just missing the podium, it was a bit of a let down for me - despite the Mercedes win.
zazale
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
One other factor that could have hurt Russell on the last restart is Grosjean and Kimi got an extra lap to put heat in their tires when they were given the wave around to make up their lap at the end of the red flag period.
PIK95
Footballguy
Saw this today. Long term,.may be a blessing in disguise. I'm getting really bored with the status quo. I guess Mercedes is most of it.
Eephus
Footballguy
Portimao is a nice track with some cool elevation changes. I don't see a lot of passing opportunities but I thought that about Mugello too.
Haas is finally ditching Magnussen and Grosjean after four seasons. The rumored all rookie lineup of Mick Schumacher and Nikita Mazepin won't score many points either but will bring in a lot of money to help balance sheet.
Leclerc put in a great lap to put the red car on the second row. He's completely outclassed Vettel this season.
Haas is finally ditching Magnussen and Grosjean after four seasons. The rumored all rookie lineup of Mick Schumacher and Nikita Mazepin won't score many points either but will bring in a lot of money to help balance sheet.
Leclerc put in a great lap to put the red car on the second row. He's completely outclassed Vettel this season.
Eephus
Footballguy
Lewis' COVID diagnosis adds some intrigue to the final two races of the season. Stoffel Vandoorne is Mercedes' reserve driver and is reportedly flying to Bahrain this week. Vandoorne was thoroughly outclassed by Alonso in mediocre McLaren rides a couple of years ago. Hulkenberg is also in the rumor mill whenever there's an empty seat. If the constructors championship was still in doubt, Mercedes would have more incentive to pull some strings and borrow George Russell from Williams but that seems unlikely now. There's a lot of pressure on Bottas to show he's a #1 coming off of a couple of poor race weekends.
This also takes attention away from Grosjean's huge crash. He's lucky to be living in 2020.
This also takes attention away from Grosjean's huge crash. He's lucky to be living in 2020.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
That was horrific.Eephus said:
Happy to see Russell show what he can do with Mercedes, kind of wish he had gotten another week there. Really bad fortune to not win, but did pick up his first points.
Probably a good move by Mercedes to show him a bit of the carrot - even though it will be 2022 at the earliest.
Probably a good move by Mercedes to show him a bit of the carrot - even though it will be 2022 at the earliest.
Obviously a great day for Verstappen and Red Bull (and McLaren). Kind of gives you hope that the 2021 season will be a bit more competitive.
Then, you read this:
Mercedes, though, have taken a different approach to 2020. They were so dominant over the first half of the season that they chose to pretty much freeze development after the Belgian Grand Prix at the end of August, preferring to concentrate on their 2021 design.
The reason for this is that they think the rule changes for next year amount to a bigger change than is generally believed.
So, instead of the expected "just a continuation of 2020" I think Mercedes believe they have enhancements to substantially improve performance. Red Bull will be in a little disarray as they try to figure out their engine issue for 2022, and I doubt Ferrari will have solved their engine problems going into next season.
Racing Point will presumably stick with Merc's 2019 car...
Money is obviously a big issue in F1 - with Williams having sold out, and McLaren taking on a substantial investor. Hopefully they can get in a full season next year - with fans.
Then, you read this:
Mercedes, though, have taken a different approach to 2020. They were so dominant over the first half of the season that they chose to pretty much freeze development after the Belgian Grand Prix at the end of August, preferring to concentrate on their 2021 design.
The reason for this is that they think the rule changes for next year amount to a bigger change than is generally believed.
So, instead of the expected "just a continuation of 2020" I think Mercedes believe they have enhancements to substantially improve performance. Red Bull will be in a little disarray as they try to figure out their engine issue for 2022, and I doubt Ferrari will have solved their engine problems going into next season.
Racing Point will presumably stick with Merc's 2019 car...
Money is obviously a big issue in F1 - with Williams having sold out, and McLaren taking on a substantial investor. Hopefully they can get in a full season next year - with fans.
Eephus
Footballguy
Me too. I’m bummed this season is over. And can’t wait to see the new drivers at new teams next year.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Definitely excited to see how Red Bull shakes out.
hooing against hope for a Ferrari comeback, if only because I like calling Binotto “ Barton Fink.”
hooing against hope for a Ferrari comeback, if only because I like calling Binotto “ Barton Fink.”
Eephus
Footballguy
Tough year for Haas. They were able to stay out of the cellar due to one points finish each from Grosjean and KMag but Russell was routinely beating them by the end of the season. It's highly unusual to field an all-rookie driver lineup for good reasons. Based on what I've seen in F2, I don't think Mick or Mazepin are huge talents. They are interesting characters though: a son of a legend vs. the son of a Russian billionaire. F1 could use a good villain but a rookie driving the worst car on the grid isn't the way you'd script it.
If F1 can figure out how to get the cars balanced - there are a number of good characters.
Hamilton - really so good he becomes more villain than hero the longer it goes on - everyone aiming to knock him off the perch.
Verstappen - hard charging, bit more mild this year, but has a feistiness. I don't think Albon is really up for a fight.
LeClerc and Sainz at Ferrari would be an aggressive/talented duo if Ferrari get the engine worked out
Norris and Ricciardo will be as aggressive as they can at McLaren
Vettel could be a villain at Aston Martin, nee Racing Point
(but I expect the Pink Panthers to drop back next year)
Vettel will be #5 at Aston Martin, but really should have pushed for 007
Hamilton - really so good he becomes more villain than hero the longer it goes on - everyone aiming to knock him off the perch.
Verstappen - hard charging, bit more mild this year, but has a feistiness. I don't think Albon is really up for a fight.
LeClerc and Sainz at Ferrari would be an aggressive/talented duo if Ferrari get the engine worked out
Norris and Ricciardo will be as aggressive as they can at McLaren
Vettel could be a villain at Aston Martin, nee Racing Point
(but I expect the Pink Panthers to drop back next year)Vettel will be #5 at Aston Martin, but really should have pushed for 007
Eephus
Footballguy
I'm hoping for better intra-team battles next year. Sainz-Norris and KMag-Grosjean were the only evenly matched teammates this season--the Alfa Romeo duo were close on Saturdays but Kimi was stronger on race day.If F1 can figure out how to get the cars balanced - there are a number of good characters.
Hamilton - really so good he becomes more villain than hero the longer it goes on - everyone aiming to knock him off the perch.
Verstappen - hard charging, bit more mild this year, but has a feistiness. I don't think Albon is really up for a fight.
LeClerc and Sainz at Ferrari would be an aggressive/talented duo if Ferrari get the engine worked out
Norris and Ricciardo will be as aggressive as they can at McLaren
Vettel could be a villain at Aston Martin, nee Racing Point
Vettel will be #5 at Aston Martin, but really should have pushed for 007
I don't think that Aston Martin is a cinch to slip back on the grid. Their 2020 car was clearly based on the 2019 Mercedes W10 but it's not like the pink cars were less competitive as the season went on. Development limits will continue to help them as will the Mercedes power unit. I'm not as sure Vettel is an upgrade over Checo as I was when he signed but it will be interesting to see how much Seb has left in him.
It looks like the game of musical seats is almost over:
Mercedes: Bottas, ??? (Hamilton)
Red Bull: Verstappen, ??? (Strong rumors of Sergio Perez)
Ferrari: Leclerc, Sainz
McLaren: Norris, Ricciardo
Alpine (nee Renault): Alonso, Ocon
Aston Martin (nee Racing Point): Vettel, Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen, Giovinazzi
Alpha Tauri: Pierre Gasly, Yuki Tsunoda
Haas: Schumacher, Mazepin
Williams: Russel, Latifi
So, if Perez goes to Red Bull, that would leave Albon with out a seat, along with Grosjean, Magnussen, Kvyat - I suppose you could add Hulkenberg as a driver without a home.
Mercedes: Bottas, ??? (Hamilton)
Red Bull: Verstappen, ??? (Strong rumors of Sergio Perez)
Ferrari: Leclerc, Sainz
McLaren: Norris, Ricciardo
Alpine (nee Renault): Alonso, Ocon
Aston Martin (nee Racing Point): Vettel, Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen, Giovinazzi
Alpha Tauri: Pierre Gasly, Yuki Tsunoda
Haas: Schumacher, Mazepin
Williams: Russel, Latifi
So, if Perez goes to Red Bull, that would leave Albon with out a seat, along with Grosjean, Magnussen, Kvyat - I suppose you could add Hulkenberg as a driver without a home.
Eephus
Footballguy
Tsunoda was the most impressive of the three drivers getting promoted from F2. He was quick on single lap pace and made some strong overtakes. I always root for Japanese drivers and am optimistic Yuki has the talent to survive at the top level even after Honda exits.
Alpha Tauri has improved in recent years and have left the Alfa/Williams/Haas backmarker group and is flirting with the midfield.
Alpha Tauri has improved in recent years and have left the Alfa/Williams/Haas backmarker group and is flirting with the midfield.
What is the status of Toyota racing?
Any chance they get involved, or are their interests too focused elsewhere?
I know Red Bull want to take on the Honda engine - but it seems like the other teams are not interested in giving Red Bull any breaks if they start up that project.
Eephus
Footballguy
Le Mans, NASCAR and Japanese series.
Toyota's F1 entry from earlier this century was an epic failure. I haven't heard any recent rumors of them getting back in and the exit of their rival Honda would seem to make it even less likely.
ETA: forgot about rallying. Sebastien Ogier won the 2020 WRC title in Toyota.
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Perez does replace Albon.
Albon stays at the team as a Reserve driver.
Also today, Mercedes sold an ownership stake in its team to Ineos, who was a car sponsor this year. As part of the deal, Toto Wolff's stake in the team went from 30% to 33% (Daimler, down from 60%, Ineos, and Wolff, now each own 1/3).
Only real business remaining is Hamilton signing a new deal. But with Wolff extending his contract, I think a 1-year deal for Hamilton is a foregone conclusion.
Eephus
Footballguy
Interested to see how Perez does at RB. He's always been good at managing his tires which opens up a bunch of tactical options provided Checo has the pace to occasionally split the Mercedes.
Tough business for Albon to wash out at 24. Two years in F1 including 1+ with a top tier team is an opportunity few drivers get. I wonder if he'll get a second bite at the apple in the future.
Tough business for Albon to wash out at 24. Two years in F1 including 1+ with a top tier team is an opportunity few drivers get. I wonder if he'll get a second bite at the apple in the future.
ugh
I was momentarily excited to see this bumped. Any word on winter testing at Barcelona?
I did come across this: Pink Panthers no more - presumably new color scheme:
https://twitter.com/AstonMartinF1/status/1344889224353509377
https://twitter.com/AstonMartinF1/status/1344889224353509377
This year's Formula 1 season will have a delayed start after the Australian and Chinese Grands Prix were postponed because of Covid-19 restrictions.
The races were first and third on the 2021 calendar and the season is now scheduled to begin with the second race, in Bahrain, on 26-28 March.
Australia and China have strict rules on international arrivals.
The Australian Grand Prix, originally scheduled for 19-21 March, will now take place between 19-21 November.
A race at Imola in Italy has been added from 16-18 April and becomes the second race of the season.
The races were first and third on the 2021 calendar and the season is now scheduled to begin with the second race, in Bahrain, on 26-28 March.
Australia and China have strict rules on international arrivals.
The Australian Grand Prix, originally scheduled for 19-21 March, will now take place between 19-21 November.
A race at Imola in Italy has been added from 16-18 April and becomes the second race of the season.
Eephus
Footballguy
Big management shakeup at Alpine (Renault) with former team boss Cyril Abiteboul leaving the company. Davide Brivio is coming over from MotoGP after leading Suzuki and Yamaha to world championships. Alpine is going to be an interesting team in 2021 with the return of Alonso.
Ain't she pretty? 
I do wonder if INEOS did not get the better of Petronas in terms of branding position though.
I can't wait for the season to get started.
I do wonder if INEOS did not get the better of Petronas in terms of branding position though.
I can't wait for the season to get started.
Eephus
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
Haas running under the Russian flag this year.
It's been widely rumored that Gene Haas will sell the team to Nikita Mazepin's billionaire father. They'll be backmarkers this year with minimal development and two rookie drivers. Things started so promisingly five years ago with their points-scoring debut but it's gone from mediocre to bad since then.
It's been widely rumored that Gene Haas will sell the team to Nikita Mazepin's billionaire father. They'll be backmarkers this year with minimal development and two rookie drivers. Things started so promisingly five years ago with their points-scoring debut but it's gone from mediocre to bad since then.
I like that color scheme better - but I did chuckle when I was reading about their launch, and they basically admitted they did no real development on the car.
Everyone else: "We are not going to disclose where we spent the two available development tokens!"
Haas: "We did not use either token. We're good!"
"Steiner said it was “pointless” to invest in the short term, so they haven’t used their two development tokens or devoted much wind tunnel time or investment on this new car."
Williams will be happy...
Pre-season testing done - not terribly reliable as a predictor, but based on the conversations post-testing, it seems like we have 4 groups this season:
1. Red Bull and Mercedes
Red Bull had the best car in testing, and Mercedes concedes that they are not there yet. It looks like Mercedes might have tinkered a bit too much this off-season, and it will take them a few races to get dialed in. Big question will be to see if Perez can provide enough support to Verstappen to put on a real challenge for the constructor's championship.
I will add that Mercedes did have their filming day(s) after testing, and though they would not be able to use race tires, I expect they will have continued to work on improving the stability in the rear of the car.
2. McLaren, Ferrari, and Alpine (nee Renault)
I expect these teams to be fighting for 3rd and the occasional podium spot, but its hard to decipher where they will slot in. McLaren had good performances, but their switch to Merc engines could be interesting - given a bit of reliability issues already for Mercedes. I expect Ferrari will bounce back after a disappointing season.
3. The A-Listers: Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Alpha Tauri
Aston Martin, no longer the Pink Panthers, I think will take a step back this season - not enough Mercedes parts to copy this year. I don't see Vettel as an improvement - though I know some disagree.
4. Williams and Haas
Williams has company this year for the role of back marker. Williams was sold last year, maybe Haas will be sold this season. But, neither inspire much confidence heading into the season.
1. Red Bull and Mercedes
Red Bull had the best car in testing, and Mercedes concedes that they are not there yet. It looks like Mercedes might have tinkered a bit too much this off-season, and it will take them a few races to get dialed in. Big question will be to see if Perez can provide enough support to Verstappen to put on a real challenge for the constructor's championship.
I will add that Mercedes did have their filming day(s) after testing, and though they would not be able to use race tires, I expect they will have continued to work on improving the stability in the rear of the car.
2. McLaren, Ferrari, and Alpine (nee Renault)
I expect these teams to be fighting for 3rd and the occasional podium spot, but its hard to decipher where they will slot in. McLaren had good performances, but their switch to Merc engines could be interesting - given a bit of reliability issues already for Mercedes. I expect Ferrari will bounce back after a disappointing season.
3. The A-Listers: Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Alpha Tauri
Aston Martin, no longer the Pink Panthers, I think will take a step back this season - not enough Mercedes parts to copy this year. I don't see Vettel as an improvement - though I know some disagree.
4. Williams and Haas
Williams has company this year for the role of back marker. Williams was sold last year, maybe Haas will be sold this season. But, neither inspire much confidence heading into the season.
massraider
Footballguy
I had never heard of this until Netflix algorithm figured out I'll watch any documentary put in front of me. I really liked it, and if F1 was hoping to gain new casual fans with the series, they succeeded with me. Now that it's three seasons in, I hope they go chronological with the series, as opposed to different team each episode Even someone like me who knew nothing has a handle on the teams. Dip into whichever team is interesting over the course of the episodes, rather than telling the season story of a team 10 different times.
Looking forward to watching my first Grand Prix next Sunday. I don't really know who I'm rooting for, like to see one of the middle of the pack jump up. Renault, maybe, I liked the Ocon kid, nice to see him back.
I've been going down a YouTube rabbit hole watching stuff, really enjoying it, as I wonder WTF brake ducts and downforce are.
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massraider
Footballguy
Double
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Guinis72
Footballguy
They did it by team again but I thought Season 3 was really well done, much better than Season 2 IMO. Ep 9 is about the Grosjean crash and is so intense.
Eephus
Footballguy
Nice Players Tribune article by Pierre Gasly (and ghostwriter) about losing his Red Bull seat and the death of his friend Anthoine Hubert.
Eephus
Footballguy
I'm more bullish on Aston Martin and Alpha Tauri than you are. They have a chance to mix it up in Class B with Ferrari, McLaren and Alpine.
There have been a lot of hapless F1 teams over the decades. Haas won't be historically bad but someone else will need to run into problems for Haas to get out of Q1.
I follow Mercedes - mostly because of Hamilton, but I also really like just how strong the entire team is, and how they come back each year looking to improve.massraider said:
But, I have a soft spot for McLaren - based on watching a pre-season documentary a few years back on Amazon - Grand Prix Driver.
Red Bull - I mostly dislike as a rival to Mercedes, but at the same time I kind of like the team principal, Christian Horner, and I actually do like the feistiness and competitiveness of Verstappen. The 2nd driver tends to be a bit like the drummer for Spinal Tap.
Ferrari - The Old School team of F1 - but with Leclerc and Sainz now in place, they have the next generation of drivers ready, just need to get the car.
Haas - American team, but not much to root for this year - As Eephus mentioned, they are going to be pretty bad, but a couple of rookie drivers including Mick Schumacher who is coming up as F2 champion (and Eephus would tell you the racing is better in F2.). Also - Guenther Steiner the team principal will be on a lot of telecasts during races when they go to the pit wall. I kind of like him.
Williams - another small family-owned (until they sold last year) team that you kind of like to see do well. I like George Russell, who is a Mercedes driver getting his feet wet in F1 at Williams - but their glory days are well in the past.
Alpine/Renault - I liked Danny Ricciardo who is now at McLaren, but I also like Fernando Alonso who is back in F1 with Alpine, and Ocon is a strong driver.
Aston Martin - meh. Lawrence Stroll seems like the perfect villain for F1.
Alpha Tauri - Red Bull Jr.
Alfa Romeo - someone has to round out the field.
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