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FreeBaGeL said:
You don't have 10 grand.  You have 100 pieces of paper (shares) worth 10 grand. 

Hypothetical scenario:

Walking Boot has 100 shares of TVIX "worth" 10 grand.

You pay 10 grand to Walking Boot for those 100 pieces of paper that each represent a share of TVIX.  Walking boot now has 10 grand.  You have $0 but have those 100 pieces of paper.

TVIX gets de-listed, those pieces of paper are now worth $0.  Walking Boot still has the 10 grand you paid for them, you still have $0 but have those 100 pieces of paper which are now worth $0.  And you don't even get a physical piece of paper anymore to boot.

Your shares are only "worth" 10 grand under the assumption that someone is willing to pay 10 grand for them, based on the last price someone paid for them.  There is no 10 grand in actual dollars associated with them, it's just the intrinsic value of what you hypothetically could sell them for.  If the stock gets de-listed and no one can buy them, that intrinsic value becomes $0 because you can't sell them.  So in this glorious game of hot potato you got left holding the potato when its value went to zero.
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Not really accurate with an ETN. 

DYOR

 
Here's how the VIX ETNs are settled per SEC regs if you "exercise". Needless to say, it's complicated and getting out prior to delisting better (notwithstanding the price dump).

 
djmich said:
I also wish the production value was better and they were better on investor relations.

But, being realistic unlike most other $3.4B companies these guys have about 12 employees, no revenues and they are selling their warrants to keep the company afloat.  The fact they are getting as much done as they are is sort of surprising.  Who knows what the manu/distro deals look like.
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Then sell some shares? I asked before and I guess they're tapped out which is why they're looking to raise allowable share count? But sell a million or two shares and raise $5-$10 million and that should hold them over nicely. Hire a real PR person. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
@ghostguy123 here's another analogy.

Walking boot sells you a Jeff Bagwell rookie baseball card for $1000.  Walking boot gets your $1000.  You have $0 from the transaction but have a Jeff Bagwell rookie card that you can theoretically sell to someone else for $1000, so it is "worth" $1000.

Tomorrow a story comes out about Jeff Bagwell molesting children.  Whoops, now no one wants a Jeff Bagwell rookie card.  That card is now worth $0.  Walking Boot has the $1000, and you have a worthless piece of paper with Jeff Bagwell's name on it.
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an ETN is a "note." It's more of a futures contract than a stock. It carries a whole lot of rights and obligations that are spelled out in the agreements. See my other post. 

again, DYOR

 
I'm finding this hilarious. I put in a limit sale on DHT in my regular brokerage (might buy some in the Roth IRA or a college fund, to avoid taxes on the dividend). Apparently I hit just the right number, as I've been getting multiple notifications of partial sales. Like a handful of shares each time. I lost track but I think the last one was partial sale #6. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
@ghostguy123 here's another analogy.

Walking boot sells you a Jeff Bagwell rookie baseball card for $1000.  Walking boot gets your $1000.  You have $0 from the transaction but have a Jeff Bagwell rookie card that you can theoretically sell to someone else for $1000, so it is "worth" $1000.

Tomorrow a story comes out about Jeff Bagwell molesting children.  Whoops, now no one wants a Jeff Bagwell rookie card.  That card is now worth $0.  Walking Boot has the $1000, and you have a worthless piece of paper with Jeff Bagwell's name on it.
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Lol.  I understand if this was a stock, like HTZ.  But what would get TVIX delisted?  And when?  Randomly?  When the "right" people stand to benefit?

 
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For anyone that cares, here's how the TVIX is essentially cashed out after it's suspended and delisted:


 
Following their delisting, the ETNs will remain outstanding, though they will no longer trade on any national securities exchange. The ETNs may trade, if at all, on an over-the-counter basis. Although it is not currently accelerating the ETNs at its option, Credit Suisse AG continues to have the right to do so, as described in the pricing supplement for the ETNs (the “Pricing Supplement”), and may choose to accelerate the ETNs at its option in the future, either together on the same date or each on a separate date, including shortly after the delisting.

Subject to the minimum redemption amount and other conditions, investors can continue to exercise their early redemption right with respect to the ETNs prior to, and following, the ETNs’ delisting, pursuant to the terms of the ETNs as described in the Pricing Supplement. If investors wish to exercise their early redemption right, they and their broker must follow the procedures set forth in the Pricing Supplement, which can be accessed on the Securities and Exchange Commission website at www.sec.gov as follows:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1053092/000095010320012007/dp130570_424b2-vlsetn1vixa63.htm

From the pricing supplement:

If the ETNs have not been previously redeemed or accelerated, on the Maturity Date you will receive:

·    for each $12.50 stated principal amount in the case of Inverse ETNs;

·    for each $25,000 stated principal amount in the case of Long ETNs; and

·    for each $2,500,000,000 stated principal amount in the case of 2x Long ETNs;

a cash payment equal to the applicable Closing Indicative Value on the Final Valuation Date (the “Final Indicative Value”), as calculated by the Calculation Agents. We refer to the amount of such payment as the “Maturity Redemption Amount.”

If the Final Indicative Value is zero, the Maturity Redemption Amount will be zero.
I went through this with a Gold ETF/ETN. They essentially mail the broker a check a few weeks later. Check with your broker. 

 
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Some backstory info:

CytoDyn to acquire Progenics' PRO 140

31-07-2012 

Development-stage  biotech firm CytoDyn (OTCQB: CYDY), has entered into a asset purchase agreement with fellow USA-based Progenics Pharmaceuticals (Nasdaq: PGNX), effective as of July 25, 2012, under which it intends to acquire Progenics’ proprietary humanized monoclonal antibody HIV viral-entry inhibitor drug candidate, PRO 140. News of the deal pushed CytoDyn’s shares up 8.25% to $1.05.

"We believe that adding PRO 140 to our pipeline of potential anti-viral therapeutics along with Cytolin [a monoclonal antibody that uses the human immune system to control HIV infection], which we are already developing, will position the company as one of the leading companies in the development of monoclonal antibody-based therapies for HIV/AIDS," commented Gregory Gould, chairman of the CytoDyn board, adding: "We intend to move forward with the necessary clinical trials to bring both of these potential treatments for HIV to market; and, if we are successful in the development of one or both of these therapies, this could lead to a paradigm shift in the treatment of HIV/AIDS with significant benefits for patients worldwide."

Deal involves $3.5 million upfront plus milestones

The terms of the deal provide for an initial payment by the CytoDyn to Progenics of $3.5 million and subsequent milestones conditioned on successful continued clinical development of PRO 140 and a royalty payment to Progenics based on net sales upon commercialization following final US Food and Drug Administration approval.

The closing of this transaction is currently expected to take place in the next 90 days, but is subject to the satisfaction of a number of closing conditions, including, among other matters: (i) Progenics having received all required authorizations, consents and approvals of government authorities; (ii) Progenics having entered into and delivered intellectual property assignments; (iii) the CytoDyn and Progenics having entered into a transition services agreement; (iv) CytoDyn having obtained the financing and raising of capital it needs in order to consummate the transactions contemplated by the agreement; and (v) the company having completed and been satisfied with its continuing due diligence investigation of PRO 140.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Thanks for ripping me apart some more.

Some others chiming in with an actual answer.  There seems to not be a complete consensus on what would happen here.
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Ah, got ya.  Yeah ETN makes it a little different.

This article says July 3rd and then after that it can be traded OTC: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/credit-suisse-ag-announces-its-intent-to-delist-and-suspend-further-issuances-of-its-velocityshares-etns-301080971.html

Are you holding a bunch of TVIX is that why you're trying to figure this out?  Or just curious?

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
For anyone that cares, here's how the TVIX is essentially cashed out after it's suspended and delisted:


  Reveal hidden contents
Following their delisting, the ETNs will remain outstanding, though they will no longer trade on any national securities exchange. The ETNs may trade, if at all, on an over-the-counter basis. Although it is not currently accelerating the ETNs at its option, Credit Suisse AG continues to have the right to do so, as described in the pricing supplement for the ETNs (the “Pricing Supplement”), and may choose to accelerate the ETNs at its option in the future, either together on the same date or each on a separate date, including shortly after the delisting.

Subject to the minimum redemption amount and other conditions, investors can continue to exercise their early redemption right with respect to the ETNs prior to, and following, the ETNs’ delisting, pursuant to the terms of the ETNs as described in the Pricing Supplement. If investors wish to exercise their early redemption right, they and their broker must follow the procedures set forth in the Pricing Supplement, which can be accessed on the Securities and Exchange Commission website at www.sec.gov as follows:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1053092/000095010320012007/dp130570_424b2-vlsetn1vixa63.htm

From the pricing supplement:

If the ETNs have not been previously redeemed or accelerated, on the Maturity Date you will receive:

·    for each $12.50 stated principal amount in the case of Inverse ETNs;

·    for each $25,000 stated principal amount in the case of Long ETNs; and

·    for each $2,500,000,000 stated principal amount in the case of 2x Long ETNs;

a cash payment equal to the applicable Closing Indicative Value on the Final Valuation Date (the “Final Indicative Value”), as calculated by the Calculation Agents. We refer to the amount of such payment as the “Maturity Redemption Amount.”

If the Final Indicative Value is zero, the Maturity Redemption Amount will be zero.
I went through this with a Gold ETF/ETN. They essentially mail the broker a check a few weeks later. Check with your broker. 
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:goodposting:

 
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He ended the interview with a potential stunner.  Could potentially cure HIV, not just treat it, in certain circumstances.  HIV patients who require bone marrow transplant.  10% or so HIV patients that develop cancer need marrow transplants.  There are 2 patients that will be in a trial in this scenario to see if the drug can cure HIV.  If positive it will be worldwide news (NP's words) and they'll immediately apply for BTD with FDA for that sub-population of HIV patients (those that need bone marrow transplant I presume).  

The set is cheesy and sure wish they'd hire a spokesperson to interact with the media... but NP does seem passionate about the drug and the company.  Kudos to him for that. 

 
anyone looking at buying LULU after it's acquisition of MIRROR Never have been a fan of Peloton, but I "get" MIRROR.

Adding the potential revenue ofg subscription service on top of a strong brand seems like a winning move. 

Already "expensive" by most measures. 

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
anyone looking at buying LULU after it's acquisition of MIRROR Never have been a fan of Peloton, but I "get" MIRROR.

Adding the potential revenue ofg subscription service on top of a strong brand seems like a winning move. 

Already "expensive" by most measures. 
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I have concerns about the current price the longer this lingers. I'd think the longer unemployment remains elevated and the longer the economy takes to recover, the fewer people you're going to see buying high end things for some period. But as you know, I like the company. To me the question is current valuation and whether there's a better entry point to come. But :shrug: on that.

 
Walking Boot said:
You asked what happens if something goes to $0, and then gets delisted. You need to remember your money is gone when you buy a stock. You don't have $10,000. You have stock. If it goes down to $1 or $0.01 or $0, you've lost on the investment. 
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I said delisted THEN goes to zero.

Feel free to go look back.

Anyway done with this convo thanks.

 
ghostguy123 said:
I said delisted THEN goes to zero.

Feel free to go look back.

Anyway done with this convo thanks.
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You did. And you were told delisting means the price goes to zero which is 100 percent wrong. 

Read the stuff I posted. That explains what you need to know. 

It's not optimal to be in an ETF/ETN when this happens. One of the many many many risks. 

 
Bob Sacamano said:
I have concerns about the current price the longer this lingers. I'd think the longer unemployment remains elevated and the longer the economy takes to recover, the fewer people you're going to see buying high end things for some period. But as you know, I like the company. To me the question is current valuation and whether there's a better entry point to come. But :shrug: on that.
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Good point. The current demo is the upper middle class, but you'd have to think growth of the brand as it currently exists requires that to expand downward. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
@ghostguy123 here's another analogy.

Walking boot sells you a Jeff Bagwell rookie baseball card for $1000.  Walking boot gets your $1000.  You have $0 from the transaction but have a Jeff Bagwell rookie card that you can theoretically sell to someone else for $1000, so it is "worth" $1000.

Tomorrow a story comes out about Jeff Bagwell molesting children.  Whoops, now no one wants a Jeff Bagwell rookie card.  That card is now worth $0.  Walking Boot has the $1000, and you have a worthless piece of paper with Jeff Bagwell's name on it.
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She was of age

 
ghostguy123 said:
Tanking hard
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Probably my fault. Added about 300 shares to my position at about 6.35/share earlier today. I still feel good about it though. I don’t have the total share count of cydy that many have in here but I felt like I needed more after selling some of my original buy of the stock in the $3’s. I turned a nice profit but I did feel a little empty inside. Let’s gooooooooool!!!!!

 
Finally dipped my toe in on CYDY after following this thread for awhile. First time buying stocks on my own. Not savvy at this stuff at all - always been the guy to just pick a plan through my company 401k and let it ride.

Had a small account for my previous employer that I had to put somewhere, so it's in a Schwab account now. So I figured: what the heck. It's a small amount so let's try and learn something new.

Pray for me. 

 
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ChiefD said:
Finally dipped my toe in on CYDY after following this thread for awhile. First time buying stocks on my own. Not savvy at this stuff at all - always been the guy to just pick a plan through my company 401k and let it ride.

Had a small account for my previously employer that I had to put somewhere, so it's in a Schwab account now. So I figured: what the heck. It's a small amount so let's try and learn something new.

Pray for me. 
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welcome!

lots of great resources in this thread (not me, I am pretty new to individual stocks) - most all are really open to helping

 
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The Ref said:
Yeah “for what it’s worth” those bast@rds executed well.  Have to tip my cap.
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pecorino said:
This is super important. When I saw the plummet yesterday, my first thought was that the FDA said something bad or a patients on their drug were showing some horrible complication. In those cases, it might be prudent to dump shares. As soon as I learned about the short attack (once again, thanks to chet), it mostly calmed my nerves. Nothing wrong here, in fact it is a sign of a lot of good stuff: a very quick and decisive run up to a fairly round number. Give them credit, they timed the attack perfectly and triggered a bunch of stop loss orders. Don't get me wrong, I think they are lowlifes and this behavior should be regulated against but it was a well-perpetrated heist.
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Sorry wont tip my cap to those who caused me to lose $100,000 from my account based on misrepresentation and deceit. The intent to steal is the same as the person who shoplifts. Difference is the shoplifter gets 15 days in jail for a $15 item and they suffer no consequences for taking a million.

Someone lost money for those a holes to profit.

 
A couple of weeks ago DFS sitting at low $48's would have gotten me all excited to buy, but today it seems pretty meh.  Quite a few others I track too are like that.  I just have no FOMO going on.  

 
Picked back up that 1/3 of of my CYDY holdings I sold yesterday (plus another 20%) at $5.89, $.59/share more than I sold it for.  That'll teach me a lesson not to panic.

 
So here's a glimpse into one of the dbag's blog entries:  Top Penny Stocks to Watch for July 2020 - Tim Sykes 

Yes, CYDY is a "stock to watch" in July.  The hypocrisy... 

Says he was waiting for a morning "panic", like he didn't know it was coming or wasn't a part of the cause.  

Students report crushing it on this panic both short and long. For me, I bought the dip and made $23,220
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Apparently he made $23,220.  Thought it would be much more. 

A link off this paragraph shows what he did and when.

Position Updates

Jun 30, 11:51 AM: Bought 27000 at 5.25 - Dip bough this giant panic, memorize the http://tim.ly/sykesmorning pattern, goal is to make 50-75 cents/share bounce, could be more, could be quick, congrats to all shorts so far, whewwwwww

Jun 30, 11:53 AM: Added 16000 at 4.82 - Adding to my position here, RISKY AF but perfect pattern

Jun 30, 11:58 AM: Sold 27000 at 5.55 - Sold some into the solid bounce, still long some too though, trying to be patient!

Jun 30, 12:00 AM: Sold 16000 at 5.88 - HUGE WINNER HERE, PERFECT http://tim.ly/sykesmorning pattern, you have to be prepared, congrats to all longs and shorts~!
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He makes it sound like he just happened upon this "panic" at the perfect time.  In 10 minutes, bought 43k and sold 43k of CYDY on the dip and recovery.  Although he doesn't know the difference in AM and PM.

Guess he wasn't part of the short group... or lying about it to his bloggers.

So why is this stock still considered a top penny stock to watch in July 2020? Two reasons: first, you need to study this panic. It was PERFECT! Second, the CYDY bounce was huge — back to $8. Plus, it has a history of multi-day runs. I’m watching for another big dip buy opportunity.  
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Acts like he wasn't a part of the bear raid.  "I'm watching for another big dip buy opportunity."  What he means is he's waiting for another call from someone to tell him to tweet something out.  

 
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