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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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35 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Yeah, I remember that. I can't recall the season, but it was when she was at the wall with Stannis and his army.

I think she took it off to reveal herself to Jon - but not sure.

Also, how long did she have it off? I really don't know. But, could that have made a difference?

Good questions. However, I doubt the series will answer that clearly.

You called it. She spent herself, plus like she said earlier, she had a mission, it was fulfilled. Done.

I guess the way to understand her earlier motivations was she thought Baratheon would get her to that moment. She was wrong. The wizards of yore like Merlin were like that, imperfect, had screwups.

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I think you can have complaints about earlier battle scenes - no one ever attacked at night in medieval, dark ages and Roman times. 

But with the Night King, come on it makes total sense. Had to be that way.

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7 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

As I said, I am doing a re-watch now. The scene where Red Woman lit the barricade just finished - well - she was obviously strugglin' to get it done. Just barely accomplished it.

This kinda puts me further into the - she burned herself out and was gonna die regardless of necklace camp.

Looked  like Davos was reaching for his dagger as she was going on her death walk.   I thought he was going to kill her but then realized what she was doing.

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LOL.

Holy #### that was disappointing.

8 years of teasers about this unstoppable army for them to kill off a few tertiary characters who all get their beautiful moment to shine before succumbing to the dumbest Hollywood trope in existence.

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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

You called it. She spent herself, plus like she said earlier, she had a mission, it was fulfilled. Done.

I guess the way to understand her earlier motivations was she thought Baratheon would get her to that moment. She was wrong. The wizards of yore like Merlin were like that, imperfect, had screwups.

Luv that so much SID.

The all-powerful trope did not exist in those pieces - the way I like it.

Merlin in Excalibur (Boorman I think - 80's) is my fav modern portrayal of the eccentricities of the Wyrd.

Thnx.

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So far the wait for the season has been worth it.  Loved last weeks fireside scene and this weeks battle was outstanding. 

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1 minute ago, Kevrunner said:

Looked  like Davos was reaching for his dagger as she was going on her death walk.   I thought he was going to kill her but then realized what she was doing.

Yeah - Davos is one of my favs - very much so - in books and TV.

I'm glad he held back. It is the kinda decision he would make - imo - the writers got that right, I believe.

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14 minutes ago, thecatch said:

I mean, I don’t want to nerd out on this too much, but that’s not how cavalry, especially light cavalry, were used at all. They would have been spread out on the flanks and circling around the rear if possible. This was like the Battle of the Bastards where they had the commander(s) use some kind of dumb strategies to get the shots they want, and it’s a fantasy TV show so I’m not going to begrudge them that. But my wife did have to put up with an earful about it :ph34r:

The comp was supposed to be the mongols. They were more of a swarm, more nuanced, much more so than even medieval cavalry. 

But there’s something about what they are dealing with. Poor sons of guns, used to steppe and desert fighting in broad daylight, sent like a sacrificial test probe into an unknown force in the dark and snow. Really ####ty way to treat them, in the narrative and militarily. IRL Dany would be pissed off to the max at that degradation and waste of a force so great and loyal to her. Carry on.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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8 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

LOL.

Holy #### that was disappointing.

8 years of teasers about this unstoppable army for them to kill off a few tertiary characters who all get their beautiful moment to shine before succumbing to the dumbest Hollywood trope in existence.

 

I get where you're coming from.

But that's not what the show has been about for 8 years. The WW were one huge plot device slowly moving South and driving the narrative when necessary, and now their usefulness is gone. But the show is about the living. 

That said, despite how enormous and epic it was, I too couldn't help feeling it was a bit anti-climactic. I think it suffered from being seen only hours after I saw Endgame--one of the most satisfying culminations of a decade's worth of build-up I could imagine. Tough to live up to. 

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10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

no one ever attacked at night in medieval,

Soory SID, gonna have ta call ya out on this.

In Medieval II LoTR mod, I used night attacks ta take soooo many orc encampments that it became ridiculous.

It also got all my family members that special "Night General" status so that I could really mop up on the big map.

You gotta lot ta learn bout genral'n.

 

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There are some minor things, but i thought it was great.  But then i have a plasma tv and watched it in complete darkness.

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12 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Soory SID, gonna have ta call ya out on this.

In Medieval II LoTR mod, I used night attacks ta take soooo many orc encampments that it became ridiculous.

It also got all my family members that special "Night General" status so that I could really mop up on the big map.

You gotta lot ta learn bout genral'n.

 

I listen, I learn, Sansei.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I listen, I learn, Sansei.

Seriously man, your one of the smartest men I know on history & politics and ####.

Don't know your profession, but I would take any classes ya taught.

In exchange, I could show ya how to take out a Mountain Troll from 2000 yards with a Dwarf made ballista.

😀

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The giant crushing the young queen chick was brutal. It sounded like stalks of celery being broken.

Also  when the NK walked into the garden there was only one possible outcome - he had to die - otherwise everybody else does and the show is over. So while it was awesome, it was pretty obvious it was about to happen. The way she did it was pretty boss though 

 

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22 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The comp was supposed to be the mongols. They were more of a swarm, more nuanced, much more so than even medieval cavalry. 

But there’s something about what they are dealing with. Poor sons of guns, used to steppe and desert fighting in broad daylight, sent like a sacrificial test probe into an unknown force in the dark and snow. Really ####ty way to treat them, in the narrative and militarily. IRL Dany would be pissed off to the max at that degradation and waste of a force so great and loyal to her. Carry on.

I think Ghost has an even bigger narrative gripe assuming he didn’t make it out. The show runners might as well admitted in the inside the episode section that they were getting tired about being asked about the dire wolf. 

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30 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I think you can have complaints about earlier battle scenes - no one ever attacked at night in medieval, dark ages and Roman times. 

But with the Night King, come on it makes total sense. Had to be that way.

There was one time...Vlad!!!!  Of course, he was a crazy mofo.  

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After all that Sam has been thru up to this battle, I kinda thought he would have been a little more brave.  Tyrion wanted to fight, love that guy.   His character will go down as one of the all-time greats.   I’m hoping the dragons take the fleet of ships out first, so at least if Cersei wins, the golden company’s soldiers won’t be able to get back home anytime soon.  Not sure which side Bronn is going to end up fighting for, I got a bad feeling that he is going to end up taking either Jamie or Tyrion out.  I sure hope I’m wrong.  

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30 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The comp was supposed to be the mongols. They were more of a swarm, more nuanced, much more so than even medieval cavalry. 

But there’s something about what they are dealing with. Poor sons of guns, used to steppe and desert fighting in broad daylight, sent like a sacrificial test probe into an unknown force in the dark and snow. Really ####ty way to treat them, in the narrative and militarily. IRL Dany would be pissed off to the max at that degradation and waste of a force so great and loyal to her. Carry on.

Yeah, i disliked that as well.  Should have had them attack from the flanks once the fighting started.  I get why the didn't, but it was a waste.

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On a serious note; why I think the Screamer charge was not such a blunder:

1) They are obviously not going to act as a shock absorber or shield wall

2) As many have noted, they are an open field charging force

3) The typical flank maneuver does not seem too helpful to me in a defensive siege when they already know the kind of numbers they are facing

4) Even if they did this flank, that still would have been suicidal, imo, because of the number of undead and the undead dragon

5) By initiating the engagement, the hero's get to begin things when they want

6) They also had hopes that the Screamer charge would initiate the engagement perhaps before the NK was fully prepared. A flank would require a first move by NK

7) As stated before, I think all expected to die anyways - I can't imagine the Screamers want'n to go out any other way than in full charge - head on - mode.

EDIT: 8 ) The dragons would be the better flankers, and the Screamers would just get in the way of the dragon flank.

 

OK - not a historical analysis or military expert opinion. Just my quick and only argument for the show.

Pick apart at will - I'm not too invested in it.

Just a fun thing to discuss & learn from others input.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
added # 8
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Lighting the trench shouldn't have really slowed the dead army down, there was so many of them they could have just rushed the trench right away and smothered the fire with the sheer number of them.

Also there was some high speed dragon-riding maneuvers and without safety harnesses there's no way theyd be able to hang on without getting flung off. 

I really had to suspend belief for this episode.

Edited by Wingnut
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1 minute ago, Wingnut said:

there was so many if then they could have just rushed the trench right away and smothered the fire with the sheer number of them.

Isn't that kinda what they did? But just as a bridge - rather than smother the whole thing? Which would have been wasteful of troops.

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1 minute ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Isn't that kinda what they did? But just as a bridge - rather than smother the whole thing? Which would have been wasteful of troops.

They waited a bit until the NK commanded them to do it ..and who cares if they lose a ton of troops, he can just make them rise again at will. The NKs end game was to kill Bran and create endless night, and as long as the dead army got him inside so he could get to Bran, that's all he really needed them for.

The way they smothered the Dothraki in seconds, it seems like an 8 feet wide fire moat wouldn't have slowed them down at all. But I've never commanded an army of dead, so what do I know?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Wingnut said:

They waited a bit until the NK commanded them to do it...

Good point. All the rest that follows, is logical. Thnx for answering.

Point to you.

1 minute ago, Wingnut said:

But I've never commanded an army of dead, so what do I know?

Well, here where I may have you. I have commanded a whole lotta armies in Med 2, and most ended up dead.

Point me.

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Why am I not surprised finally coming in here and people are complaining about the episode. Carry on. I'm out again. 

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4 hours ago, Dez said:

"And in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again."

Aka Blue eyes = Knight King.

Cersei = Green Eyes :popcorn: 

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32 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

Also there was some high speed dragon-riding maneuvers and without safety harnesses there's no way theyd be able to hang on without getting flung off. 

I really had to suspend belief for this episode.

There was a aerial battle between two dragons, and the ability of riders to hold on was the part that required you to suspend disbelief? 

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I'm just nitpicking for fun, I loved the episode although I think the Battle of the Bastards was the best battle, it was tougher to watch and had more OMG monents, IMO

Edited by Wingnut
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6 minutes ago, [icon] said:
40 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

Also there was some high speed dragon-riding maneuvers and without safety harnesses there's no way theyd be able to hang on without getting flung off. 

I really had to suspend belief for this episode.

There was a aerial battle between two dragons, and the ability of riders to hold on was the part that required you to suspend disbelief? 

Actually, I really get this.

As a big fan of epic fantasy, I can say that many of us suspend belief in things like magic and monsters, but we still expect physics to work as it should otherwise.

I think hanging on to a dragon falls under that. Especially since Tyrion made a special saddle for himself and Bran - for horses...why not a dragon saddle of sorts?

I'm with Wingnut on this.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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Alright, I am in my 3rd watch 🤓  - weird sleeping schedule here - and I must say, not only is Arya BADDASSS - Maisie Williams is too.

The fighting she does, is not wholly a trick of film; she has some serious martial skill - even if it is only kata/forms.

Highly impressed with her.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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Watched it a second time and enjoyed even more, I guess because the stress level wasn’t so high.  This is a great show, maybe the GOAT.  I’d pay $500 right now if I could binge watch the final 3 episodes.  Must have been so hard for the actress who plays Arya not to give out spoilers.   I wasn’t surprised that the NK would survive dragon fire, but I was surprised that his clothes could.  Dany’s couldn’t earlier in the series, but we all benefited from that😊.   I figured in order for the NK to be able to ride a dragon he would have to  have been a Targaryen.

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How pissed would you be as a Dothraki fighter? You sail across the sea to help a foreign queen win her throne, but instead you're assigned to bumrush 100k+ zombies. 

Not the way I envisioned riding into the grassy nightlands. 😠

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6 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

Watched it a second time and enjoyed even more, I guess because the stress level wasn’t so high.  This is a great show, maybe the GOAT.  I’d pay $500 right now if I could binge watch the final 3 episodes.  Must have been so hard for the actress who plays Arya not to give out spoilers.   I wasn’t surprised that the NK would survive dragon fire, but I was surprised that his clothes could.  Dany’s couldn’t earlier in the series, but we all benefited from that😊.  

So -- ya say'n ya wanted to see the NK's Popsicle?

Odd.

;)

7 minutes ago, Kevrunner said:

...I figured in order for the NK to be able to ride a dragon he would have to  have been a Targaryen.

Good point. My only thought, is that once the dragon was made undead, by NK, that the Targ requirement was lost & replaced with a NK requirement - as the NK kinda father'd him.

Best I can do.

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Another thought that I don't think has been mentioned - if it has, I apologize for missing it.

When Jon is charging the NK - and then NK raises the dead, they could have easily swarmed and killed Jon - but they didn't.

Why?

Was it - as others pointed out - that Bran was the true goal? (I believe this)

Even if so, would it not have been beneficial to eliminate Jon - just in case?

I dunno. Maybe I missed something, but I need to think more about that.

EDIT: Yes, Dany and her dragon do come to his rescue, but it is still later than required and the dead weren't really even focusing on Jon unless he stood in their path.

And, a few scenes later, Dany and Jorah DO get swarmed. Is Dany more a threat than Jon?

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow

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After watching more and thinking, 'I have an answer that works for me.

The group of deado's that ignored Jon, were the personal force the NK was gonna use to break thru to Bran.

The group of deado's swarm'n Dany & Jorah were another force dedicated to Project Mayhem.

Best I can do.

EDIT: OK - maybe - maybe the dead were try'n to swarm Jon, but it was hard for me to see. Perhaps this has all just been my poor view'n.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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Before Jorah came to the rescue, why didn’t Dany just walk into the fire? 

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3 hours ago, Wingnut said:

The giant crushing the young queen chick was brutal. It sounded like stalks of celery being broken.

Also  when the NK walked into the garden there was only one possible outcome - he had to die - otherwise everybody else does and the show is over. So while it was awesome, it was pretty obvious it was about to happen. The way she did it was pretty boss though 

 

It was real cool. Lord knows how she just strolled past 7 of those White Walker General but it was a cool move.

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Probably hippling as I'm a few pages behind, but I assumed the low lighting was to convey the confusion of the defenders facing an overwhelming enemy that doesn't need to see to fight.

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Jorah Mormont dies as he lived.  The brave knight defending his queen.  Theon too.  Such heroic deaths. 

Edited by Sabertooth
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3 hours ago, Wingnut said:

I really had to suspend belief for this episode.

Yeah true, way more than in the other episodes that had dragons and giants and witches and zombies. 

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5 hours ago, jhib said:

Did Lady Mormont strike you as someone who would not spend the time to train for battle every chance she got?

 

She was squeezed so hard by the giant that we heard her bones breaking. I like the character and all but it was very cliche 

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Great Episode.  I’m really sorry if you watched this episode and were disappointed.  This was the culmination of so many things.  I actually thought we’d see Jon Snow fight the night king.  

The dragon battle was pure awesome.  

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6 hours ago, Daywalker said:

They are not going to kill many off it seems.  This thing a cash cow.  Might as well keep your options available.

So basically this has turned into the Marvel universe?

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If the Night King brings Winter - it should warm up soon...

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MoD has to lose a lot of power now. No more Dothraki horde or unsullied, though at least one dragon remaining (don’t recall whether the second one survived?). She’s basically got 1-2 dragons and no army. 

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