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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (7 Viewers)

Didn't like the episode much.  Was getting really tired by the end and just wanted it to end.

The Night King's purpose was never really fleshed out. Arya being the one to kill him was predictable.  Not sure what everyone else saw here but I didn't see much that was interesting.

They could have done this one in an hour and it may have been a little better.

 
El Floppo said:
I'm having a hard time keeping my white walkers, wights and plain old crackers distinguished. But...I do believe they've only shown WWs getting frost exploded by vallerian steel or dragon glass. I don't recall them showing non WWs being attacked with them. But strange that the WWs end up being so easy yo kill compared to their walking dead cronies.

And yeah... That scene in the library was straight out of TWD.
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Remember the scene at the Dragon Pit? They made a whole show about how the zombie (or "wight") kept right on crawlin towards Cersei after the hound chopped it in half with a regular sword. It didn't die until John stabbed with the dragon glass.

I will admit they've been a little inconsistent on this point though, as Tormund and some of the other fighters at Hardhome did seem to be able to "kill" some of them with regular weapons.

And I would agree that not seeing a single white walker swing a weapon (other than the NK's missed Javelin throw) was a little weak.  I get that they're the generals, but there's been so much hype and they didnt even fight. John killing the whitewalker at Hardhome was one of the highlights of the series.

 
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Although I enjoyed the last episode, it should have been much better.  Using the first two episodes as a buildup was a mistake in hindsight because we still don’t have a lot of backstory and ambitions behind the NK or Bran after eight years in the making.  This made the NKs death feel anti climatic as we weren’t really attached to his story.  Like many, I wish more significant players would have died.  The fact that the NK won the battle and the main GoT roster stayed intact is powderpuff.  This show was known for unpredictability, but clearly that’s not the case over the last couple of seasons as it now has a very Disney feel to it.  I was also surprised how   Still a good episode but definitely felt a little empty after reflecting on it.

 
It seemed crazy to me that the most important battle in the world was basically one episode.  But they spent over two hours preparing for the battle in episodes 1 and 2, plus the end of season 7 when the night king got a dragon and used it.  It's been almost 5 hours of television on just this one battle, and that's not counting all the build up that started from the first scene of episode 1, season 1.

I thought the dragon fighting scenes were awesome.  The night king was bringing in the ice and wind and they couldn't see anything.  But when they finally got fighting he was trying to use his spear and couldn't get a clean throw.  

And when jon and Dany tried to take him out and couldn't, one because he couldn't be killed by fire and the other because he raised the dead, that was fully bad ###. 

And having him go to kill a stark in winterfell - and you've got sansa fighting undead in the crypts, jon trying to fight his way to the night king, theon defending bran, and finally arya getting in there with bran - that's the whole stark family working together to protect winterfell because winter came and they were there.  

I didn't love the khaleesi and jorah fight. When did she learn how to hold a sword?   Why can jorah suddenly fight these things one by one?  That was just unnecessarily dramatic.  The entire army can't fight off the white Walker army but theon and co are destroying them with arrows?  A bit much. I dont like the meaningful scenes where ed saves samwise, but i get why every show does it. And something I would have enjoyed seeing was some of the wights fighting and getting killed. We've already seen what happens when they die and i didn't need to but it would have been fun to see the good guys strike a meaningful blow or two, then see how futile it was.  

But there's a lot of really cool stuff they did.  Falling back and trying to light the fire, but the wights are putting the fire out. Awesome. The dothraki scene was an awesome visual, even if it wasn't great strategy.  The dead guys throwing themselves on the fire one by one then swarming, that was cool, but watching them climb the walls and just throw themselves into a pile so the next ones could climb over them.  Awesome.  

And now we see the red witch had a single purpose.  She was putting people in place for this battle from the start. Bran saying theon was a good man.  What a character arc he had.

And Beric and the hound finding arya, each protecting her, even though she screamed that she wanted the hound dead and screamed at beric for helping the red witch - those scenes will be fun to rewatch later knowing that beric hodored for her and the hound was paralyzed by fear but overcame it to protect her. So many people that got her to where she needed to be. 

Just a great ending to a major storyline, and with enough time left to finalize the starks vs lannisters. We had our big dragons and zombies fight but it's not the whole show.  As it should be. 

 
Zow said:
Yeah that was my biggest annoyance with the episode. Cool scene, but I had just happened to watch the episode from season six where Jamie Lannister describes the Dothraki as the best fighters he had ever seen. They get even more enhanced then with flaming swords. Then they’re basically sent forward on a suicide mission and all die within fifteen seconds? 
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Agreed given how quickly they were destroyed vs how Poderick was able to kill 1000 of them and survive didn’t seem to mesh. The stakes were established as very high and the enemy as nearly unbeatable but the results didn’t mesh with that.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Jorah's death made me sad. :(

The depleted man power of the north will make it tough vs the south, but Danny still has 1 of her dragons (or did 2 survive), and that could still be the equalizer. 
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Second sons will have to show up now no?

Man of Constant Sorrow said:
I have a suspicion that the dividing line between the:

TOO DARKKK!!

vs.

Nah - I could see fine!

...is gonna be drawn along age lines.

I put my chair 4 feet from my 45" & just barely made it out - but I did like the effect.

You younger folk prolly don't get it yet - OH LOOKOUT - it'll come....
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It comes down to the what you're watching it on. Have a really nice plasma that has amazing black levels so shadow detail is awesome. Had no problems.

 
Didn't the trailers show Jon back north of the wall? Does he and Tormund head up to bring the remaining wildlings south?

 
A couple more things

Arya didn't wear a wight face. She didn't have time to kill one, clean it up and turn it into a magic face.  Also if she'd tried they turn to ice crystals.  Even if you go back and see it happen on the show, just trust me, it didn't ####### happen. 

Bran is still alive and while he was mildly interesting as bait and kind of helped the starks kill littlefinger, he still has 3 episodes to finish his arc. I think we'll find out a lot more about the night king and more.  

 
I'm exhausted trying to catch up to page 510....still 3 more to go!

Did nobody brighten up their television screen?  

 
And, yeah, the Arya setup scenes are great to rewatch after last night.  Arya and Red Woman in season 3, with Syrio in season1, getting the dagger from Bran, and sparring with Brienne.  

 
JShare87 said:
Before Jorah came to the rescue, why didn’t Dany just walk into the fire? 
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Ilov80s said:
It was real cool. Lord knows how she just strolled past 7 of those White Walker General but it was a cool move.
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Billy Bats said:
Everyone is forgetting about Yara and the Ironborn. :oldunsure:  
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There's like 10 of them at this point. The majority are with Euron.

SHIZNITTTT said:
So.are.we going to get a fight between the Mountain and the Hound?  
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I don't think so, with what the Hound told him at the Dragon Pit. You know who's coming for you, you've always known. I don't think he'd be that cryptic if he was planning on killing him.

Mile High said:
The trailer for episode 4 reveals 

2 dragons and Ghost still alive.
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Excellent!!

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Your points are made up. 

Jon was always coming back, it wasn't a Hollywood change. It's an important plot point. 

Tyrion was never going to be a Targ unless GRRM came out with a book in all this time that changed that. Which he didn't. They got all the huge plot points out of him early on in case he died. 
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GRRM gave HBO an outline of how things ended.  They filled in the blanks.

 
Slapdash said:
Still probably won't be one.  But having the battle with the Night King in episode 3 pretty much guaranteed we wouldn't see a Night King on the Iron Throne
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Not saying it had to be that but being surprised that fans of the show wanted some major character deaths in last night's episode seems strange. Like I said, it takes away from a great fireside scene from the previous episode, imo.

 
jamny said:
Not saying it had to be that but being surprised that fans of the show wanted some major character deaths in last night's episode seems strange. Like I said, it takes away from a great fireside scene from the previous episode, imo.
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I agree.  None of those characters dying felt weak (Jamie surviving the Battle of the Loot Train still surprises me).  And I guess, personally, seeing characters go down versus the White Walkers versus in whatever devious schemes Qyburn cooks up would be more satisfying.

 
My take: yes it was too dark and adding a blinding snowstorm made it impossible to watch but as someone else mentioned 50 pages ago, watching on my Mac is not what this episode was designed for so I can forgive it. Makes total sense to battle at night.

Loved the visual of the Dothraki riding into oblivion regardless of how stupid it was strategically. That was a highlight for me.

Disappointed with the writers and GRRM. Here's why, if GRRM had written the battle scene I can guarantee half of the heroes wouldn't have made it out. I'm disappointed that GRRM left it to the writers and they succumbed to typical Hollywood writing, millions of close calls but everyone walks away a winner at the end. The deaths that did happen, a good start but Greyworm, Brienne, Gendry, Jamie, Pod, Sam & at least one dragon all should have bit it. And it wouldn't have impacted the story line or where it's going IMO. They are setting this up for a fight between Cersei & Dany/Jon.

Loved everything about every scene Arya was in up to and including the top rope dive bomb on the NK. That actually got me excited for about the first time during that episode. Her time in the library, her scene with the Red Witch, just a great montage of all she has become since season 1.

Nice redemption arc for Theon. Bit unrealistic with the arrow thing given what the army of the dead was doing everywhere else in the battle but whatever. Same for Jorah, he proved once and for all his love for Dany. Great ending for both.

My two wtf? moments: 1. Melisande - thoroughly disappointed in her ending although I bought into a fan theory which pegged her as Nissa Nissa so I had a little bit more of an interest in her fate than some. Lighting of the Dothraki swords, awesome! The rest...meh but you guys have convinced me she was spent at that point. I was hoping for more but personally it was unsatisfying to see her just walk off into the sunrise. 2. Bran - don't even bother taking him with you. Make him the Stark you leave at Winterfell because he's worthless and his story line is wasted at this point. Very disappointed in this whole story arc. They spent years developing and what you got for it? Bupkis that's what.

Don't think it needed to be as long as it was. An awful lot of switching back and forth between fight scenes because of all the heroes involved but I didn't need to see them get swarmed, miraculously fight their way, move to a new spot, get swarmed, miraculously fight their out, move to a new spot...it got to be too much.

Someone else said it earlier and while I'll probably rewatch this episode because I love large scale battle scenes but I thought the Battle of the Bastards was much better. Watched that episode 4 times.

 
Alright so on to the next episodes. 

Does Cersei march north or does she wait for Dany and Co to gather themselves and cobble together whoever is still living and attack Kings Landing?

 
It's amazing how many people are so invested in the showrunners not giving fans what they want, even if the alternative is worse. All so they can say the show isn't "Hollywood". Kinda backwards. (This isn't about people wanting more characters to have died--I agree)

 
Very entertaining.  A couple of times I checked my watch, hoping the drama/tension wouldn't end.

Great scene with the red witch and seeing the very long line of Dothraki weapons all light up.  Cavalry + fire gave the sense that they were going to put a serious dent in the dead army.  All the more dramatic, then, when they rode out and the lights just disappeared.  But weird that Ghost was there, yet not seen again.

As everyone says, tough to see a lot of the action with the night battle, but the cost of filming a day battle would have been really high.  (I still cringe over a scene or two in Braveheart of fake fighting in the background of some scenes.  A night battle avoided that.)  They gave up on those flaming rock throwers rather quickly, didn't they?  DIdn't like how all the top characters would be near-death, then get saved, and later in the castle they were each surrounded by the dead but able to hold them off (as Jon strolled by looking for ..I don't know what).

So are the dead slow, like in prior seasons and their advancing march in this show and their dramatic encirclements of Jon and of Jorah/Dany, or are they fast, racing down the Winterfell hallways in pursuit of Arya and her protectors?  That seemed to be too much of a 'whatever suits the plotline' approach.  Also, it sure looked like all the dead rose up again, but I thought the dragon glass weapons and fire prevented that - ?.

While I didn't like seeing the dead punch their way out of the crypts, the scene of Sansa and Tyrion drawing their weapons and sharing looks of doom was superb.  I liked Tyrion's angst about not being engaged with the battle and possibly being able to offer battle strategy.

Arya rocks!  But for all the build-up with her special weapon, she used it for about 30 seconds and then lost it in the battle ...and then suddenly became very fearful.  The scene of her in the library, avoiding the dead, was suspenseful, if unrealistic with a ginormous battle raging everywhere else.  (And the 'she's not under the table!' scene mirrored a scene in The Patriot.)  Loved how Arya explained to Sensa how to use a knife.  "Stab them with the pointy end."

Very nice kills by Lady Mormont and Arya.   

 
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the moops said:
Alright so on to the next episodes. 

Does Cersei march north or does she wait for Dany and Co to gather themselves and cobble together whoever is still living and attack Kings Landing?
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Strategically you should have seen Lannister's marching on Winterfell as it fades to black but the show doesn't really use much of that (strategy) and I could see her thinking she is "safe" in Kings Landing. As soon as the Golden Company landed I would have packed them up north.

 
Big Deaths = GRRM in a book, where nobody is paying the actors, and nobody is #####ing on twitter about their favorite character dying.

On TV, TV people have a different sense of how things should go, based, in part on audience approval and actor salaries...

If/When GRRM gets around to writing the end of this series - it will look very different, imo.

 
eoMMan said:
Good point about whoever it was in this thread mentioning about how the NK's clothes didn't burn off.   :lmao:
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Not really a good point at all. Obviously WW have some sort of frosty aura (think flames dying down as they walk through them during Hardhome and Hold The Door), and the NK's could be even stronger, projecting out further and protecting his frosty WW armor. 

Pretty dumb nitpick. 

 
The Noid said:
Never thought we'd be at the point where fans of a show were complaining/disappointed that not enough main characters died, but here we are! 
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Well, when the show set the tone early that anybody could die at anytime, and that was a big draw for people...    In the last 1/2 of the series we are at off screen deaths where the character isn't dead and major characters are surviving battles like this.  I think part of the tension is gone, and about mid way through the episode last night I had the feeling that nobody of great import was going to bite it, so the tension wasn't there for me.  Also as somebody pointed out, it also lessens last episode b/c we thought that was the point of the build up and random meetings/sex/campfire stories - setting up the emotion to deal with heavy losses this week.  Sorry, I don't consider Lady Mormont and The Red Witch big deaths.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Well, when the show set the tone early that anybody could die at anytime, and that was a big draw for people...    In the last 1/2 of the series we are at off screen deaths where the character isn't dead and major characters are surviving battles like this.  I think part of the tension is gone, and about mid way through the episode last night I had the feeling that nobody of great import was going to bite it, so the tension wasn't there for me.  Also as somebody pointed out, it also lessens last episode b/c we thought that was the point of the build up and random meetings/sex/campfire stories - setting up the emotion to deal with heavy losses this week.  Sorry, I don't consider Lady Mormont and The Red Witch big deaths.  
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Theon either, he coulda died at any point and nobody would have cared. Jorah maybe but I think everyone knew at some point he was going to die saving Danny.

 
People die - Laaaaaaaame!

People don’t die - Laaaaaaaame!

I guess that was my point earlier - people are too invested. They can’t win. Too many die, not enough die, they didn’t die the right way, they should have done this, why did they do that.  

I can tell which people would be hanging out in the corner of the FBG party talking #### about everyone else. 

 
Yeah, the 3 "big" deaths on the good side were all highly predictable. Obvious that Theon was going to (and probably wanted to) die saving Bran. Jorah was always going to sacrifice himself for Dany and the Red Woman's story was complete once the NK is gone.

 
The Duff Man said:
I think she is a bad motha trucka who just single handedly destroyed about 30 undead minutes prior. 

Who later in the show will jump into a group of the scariest dudes in the world and take down their leader. 

The look of terror on her face as she was hiding was comical. Maybe it was overacting. 

The Arya they have shown us would be assessing the room, looking for a weapon and planning how she was going to kill them all. 
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At some point one has to be physically and mentally exhausted of fighting an enemy that never stops coming. Also they needed something different. We already had so much zombie killing that there needed to be something to break it up and give us a different feeling. It was tense and I thought it was among the best scenes in the episode. I can only watch someone stab zombies so many times before it feels like I’m watching a video game.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Not really a good point at all. Obviously WW have some sort of frosty aura (think flames dying down as they walk through them during Hardhome and Hold The Door), and the NK's could be even stronger, projecting out further and protecting his frosty WW armor. 

Pretty dumb nitpick. 
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Not cool.

 
bigmarc27 said:
People die - Laaaaaaaame!

People don’t die - Laaaaaaaame!

I guess that was my point earlier - people are too invested. They can’t win. Too many die, not enough die, they didn’t die the right way, they should have done this, why did they do that.  

I can tell which people would be hanging out in the corner of the FBG party talking #### about everyone else. 
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There are also 3 episodes left. People gone die 

 
matuski said:
The episode was fun - but just like Gamora missing the funeral, I thought they left out a whole lot of explaining regarding Bran and NK.

I really have about zero understanding why that was even important.
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Dude if this is an End Game reference/spoiler... :hot:

 
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