Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

[Slapdash 14,428]

16 hours ago, Mile High said:

But in the end, didn't she say she was going to fight the army of the dead, before Jon bent the knee?

And then she fought the army of the dead.  Without her armies and dragons, the day would have been lost easily.  Yet, two episodes later she is an evil tyrant.  With really only a "previously on Game of Thrones" montage to setup the heel turn

[Captain Cranks 3,884]

12 minutes ago, Insein said:

Season 8 Pitch Meeting

Hilarious.  Hits on so many points.  

[beer 30 2,019]

12 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

However, I do have a question - not specifically aimed at you, but also at all the others who have expressed the following view (there are many):

Irt 1st bold: Can someone explain why they think Bran did the killing?

Irt 2nd bold: What do you mean by "mapped out"? Do you equate seeing the future to making the future?

Good discussion, I guess you do know something after all

1. I probably should have chosen my words more carefully but obviously Bran didn't do any killing. They way I looked at is he orchestrated the end result. You made a great analogy with him seeing multiple futures and choosing the best option. My response back would be how bad were the other options that killing all of the North and Kings Landing was the best possible outcome? Granted since he has taken on the persona of the Three Eyed Raven, Bran has an air of smugness about him but his response, "why do you think I came all this way?" really made me think he more than the 'best possible outcome' in mind. It comes off like the best possible outcome...for him. Ultimately probably the best for Westeros because it does break the wheel but I don't think even Bran could foresee that far into the future. I just felt like there was some personal gain involved which calls into question killing that many people to place yourself on the throne. I find any scenario other than the NK winning the day and making all of Westeros the Walking Dead the only outcome worse than the one that played out. You bring up a lot of good points but that was what drove my earlier statement.
2. I covered the "mapping out" part in my above response. Orchestrated...mapping out, call it what you will, meant as the same thing. As for him making the future, no I don't think Bran can make the future but I think he can orchestrate/manipulate events such that there is a high probability of a desired outcome. In this case placing himself on the throne which goes back to point 1 above, there is some self interest in play IMO. Might be totally in left field but just the feeling I had after the whole thing played out.

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

Good discussion, I guess you do know something after all

1. I probably should have chosen my words more carefully but obviously Bran didn't do any killing. They way I looked at is he orchestrated the end result. You made a great analogy with him seeing multiple futures and choosing the best option. My response back would be how bad were the other options that killing all of the North and Kings Landing was the best possible outcome? Granted since he has taken on the persona of the Three Eyed Raven, Bran has an air of smugness about him but his response, "why do you think I came all this way?" really made me think he more than the 'best possible outcome' in mind. It comes off like the best possible outcome...for him. Ultimately probably the best for Westeros because it does break the wheel but I don't think even Bran could foresee that far into the future. I just felt like there was some personal gain involved which calls into question killing that many people to place yourself on the throne. I find any scenario other than the NK winning the day and making all of Westeros the Walking Dead the only outcome worse than the one that played out. You bring up a lot of good points but that was what drove my earlier statement.
2. I covered the "mapping out" part in my above response. Orchestrated...mapping out, call it what you will, meant as the same thing. As for him making the future, no I don't think Bran can make the future but I think he can orchestrate/manipulate events such that there is a high probability of a desired outcome. In this case placing himself on the throne which goes back to point 1 above, there is some self interest in play IMO. Might be totally in left field but just the feeling I had after the whole thing played out.

This is great man. It's exactly the #### that fascinates me. 

I need to think about this more.

You add some new elements that I have not given enough thought to; most specifically, Bean's smugness, but other things as well. 

I will try to post something more later tonight. 

👍

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

2 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

MoCS diggin' all the way to Chiner up in here 

...I dig ditches like the best of 'em 

 

Heyo peach,

If ya recall _{^{(& I know you do)}}, I was a Dany-boy when ya died...and a Jaime-boy when join'd back again - but ... I've grown up _{^{a little}} since then.

<----------------- Imma born again Bran-man now...watch out!

 

Sincerely, Imma so sorry  bout yer beautiful Queen  . Where do I send my condolences 🍖? I have felt awful  ever since that ceiling caved in on her . I truly hate ♥️ that she had to die .

Honest. 🤥

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

30 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Bean's smugness,

wat?

[otb_lifer 5,347]

8 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

...I dig ditches like the best of 'em 

 

9 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

 

Heyo peach,

If ya recall _{^{(& I know you do)}}, I was a Dany-boy when ya died...and a Jaime-boy when join'd back again - but ... I've grown up _{^{a little}} since then.

<----------------- Imma born again Bran-man now...watch out!

Dany is/was/always shall be an impetuous lil' tvvat - but, ya know, she was FANBOI'd to death becuzz "BOOBIES! AND HEINY!!!! AND, WOOOOWWWWZERRRS! DRAGONS!!!!1!!!1"  

she became an insufferable micro c### after Drogo bit it ... saw through her #### and couldn't stomach her nauseating hubris ... #### HER!

now, moving on to Jaime ... ok, i can dig it - dude had a great run from the hand chop to Ser Brienne in the Bear pit, etc ... i gotcha on that one.

but Bran? really? you're now #teamRaisinBran?  say it ain't so, MoX  that lil' Emo #### won you over?

as far as me dying, well ... i guess i pulled a Jon Snow, eh?  would make @rockaction the Red Woman, no? 

20 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

 

Sincerely, Imma so sorry  bout yer beautiful Queen  . Where do I send my condolences 🍖? I have felt awful  ever since that ceiling caved in on her . I truly hate ♥️ that she had to die .

Honest. 🤥

 

im'ma two steps from goin' all ####### Hatfield on yer ###, BUT - if you were happy to see this and this go, well ... there ain't much more i can say, other than -

LONG LIVE MY QUEEN! 

[encaitar 1,370]

3 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Hilarious.  Hits on so many points.  

"It's gonna be like watching World War Z with 5 pairs of sunglasses on"  

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

6 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

Dany is/was/always shall be an impetuous lil' tvvat - but, ya know, she was FANBOI'd to death becuzz "BOOBIES! AND HEINY!!!! AND, WOOOOWWWWZERRRS! DRAGONS!!!!1!!!1"  

she became an insufferable micro c### after Drogo bit it ... saw through her #### and couldn't stomach her nauseating hubris ... #### HER!

... turn off the light.. take a deep breath.. and relax ...

14 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

now, moving on to Jaime ... ok, i can dig it - dude had a great run from the hand chop to Ser Brienne in the Bear pit, etc ... i gotcha on that one.

Yeah. I'm still work'n on him - so, I have not truly left his van, but...

15 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

but Bran? really? you're now #teamRaisinBran?  say it ain't so, MoX  that lil' Emo #### won you over?

...Bran on The Throne is such a huge statement from a certain perspective that I can't ignore the little guy - emo or no.

Plus, he is getting so roll'd by hate that he needs a new fool to speak up for him. That be me. 😀

 

19 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

as far as me dying, well ... i guess i pulled a Jon Snow, eh?  would make @rockaction the Red Woman, no? 

Yeah - you been pull'n somepin alright - was it Jon? I dunno - NTTIAWWT . 

Rock = Red ?🤔  ....  Oh yeah!!!!

 

22 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

im'ma two steps from goin' all ####### Hatfield on yer ###, BUT - if you were happy to see this and this go, well ... there ain't much more i can say, other than -

Ok - ok - very nice defense ----- NOT!

 

23 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

LONG LIVE MY QUEEN! 

T0 DA QUEEN! 

[rockaction 14,577]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about in here. Best I can suss out is that there's some sort of resurrection theme, which means I'm generally for it by inherent disposition, but one caveat: I ain't for dying for some scene or cause.

Edited May 23 by rockaction

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I have no idea what you guys are talking about in here. Best I can suss out is that there's some sort of resurrection theme, which means I'm generally for it by inherent disposition, but one caveat: I ain't for dying for some scene or cause.

No prob - just keep breaking thru them walls!

[otb_lifer 5,347]

10 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I have no idea what you guys are talking about in here. Best I can suss out is that there's some sort of resurrection theme, which means I'm generally for it by inherent disposition

... we call it arc up in here 

12 minutes ago, rockaction said:

but one caveat: I ain't for dying for some scene or cause.

SAD!

i'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees! - Budski (the immortal Harry Dean Stanton), in "Repo Man"

/scene

10 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

No prob - just keep breaking thru them walls!

24 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

... turn off the light.. take a deep breath.. and relax ...

Yeah. I'm still work'n on him - so, I have not truly left his van, but...

...Bran on The Throne is such a huge statement from a certain perspective that I can't ignore the little guy - emo or no.

Plus, he is getting so roll'd by hate that he needs a new fool to speak up for him. That be me. 😀

 

Yeah - you been pull'n somepin alright - was it Jon? I dunno - NTTIAWWT . 

Rock = Red ?🤔  ....  Oh yeah!!!!

 

Ok - ok - very nice defense ----- NOT!

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

9 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

SAD!

 

9 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

... we call it arc  Sorrow up in here 

 

9 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

WAT?

My guy is on the F'n THRONE -- while your Queen is buried under a whole Keep of rubble - eh - I mean 4 bricks - well, it's all the same...

...and you...point to da shirt?

Un-F/n\believeable! 

Edited May 23 by Man of Constant Sorrow

[badmojo1006 6,022]

Heh, perfect

[beer 30 2,019]

1 hour ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

wat?

There is a resemblance

[otb_lifer 5,347]

28 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

 

WAT?

My guy is on the F'n THRONE -- while your Queen is buried under a whole Keep of rubble - eh - I mean 4 bricks - well, it's all the same...

...and you...point to da shirt?

Un-F/n\believeable! 

it was called GAME of Thrones ... and, for my money, no one played it better soup to nutz than mah Queen Cersei 

Littlefinger/Varys/Tywin/Lady Olenna very close behind, with Littlefinger perhaps as good (the whole ball got rollin' with his assasination of Jon Aryn), but he never seized the true power that Cersei had. 

ergo, 

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

2 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

it was called GAME of Thrones ... and, for my money, no one played it better soup to nutz than mah Queen Cersei 

Littlefinger/Varys/Tywin/Lady Olenna very close behind, with Littlefinger perhaps as good (the whole ball got rollin' with his assasination of Jon Aryn), but he never seized the true power that Cersei had. 

ergo, 

 

My 🍑 - I will sincerely think long and hard on yous Queen Corpse Cersei.

I admit that she play'd a mean one, especially face-to-face, and had some of the best tactics, but her long range strats seem'd to suffer from her fears - which I admit she learn'd the hard way.

My boy J said it best:

All the worst things she's ever done; she's done for her children. 

So, I get that she did love - and did things for love - that is worthy. 

As a character, whooo nilly yeah - she was top line billing. I get that in droves.

 

When I work on my Jaime arc, I am going to do Cersei side-by-side (twins and all) - I will use everything you can give me.

Fight fer yous Queen - and she may be redeemed.

😎

[Captain Cranks 3,884]

2 hours ago, encaitar said:

"It's gonna be like watching World War Z with 5 pairs of sunglasses on"  

I literally loled at several points and that was one of them. 

Another is, "You can have more episodes if you want."   

"I just don't see any other way than rushing it.  Damn this short final season."

[FreeBaGeL 6,882]

6 hours ago, Insein said:

Season 8 Pitch Meeting

That is the most perfect summary of anything ever summarized.

"The council of surviving characters"

 

[beer 30 2,019]

So much this...

Book Euron vs Show Euron. Sums it up pretty well

Sigh

This is a badass vid

Edited May 23 by beer 30

[Rustoleum 1,217]

All those lords (the council of surviving characters) who think they are going to get to choose the next king are going to be disappointed when he melds with a tree and lives for like  600 years. What’s that saying? A broken wheel turns into moss?

[falguy 940]

20 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

That is the most perfect summary of anything ever summarized.

"The council of surviving characters"

 

This was the first "Pitch" I had seen so I watched a bunch more because it was super easy. Barely an inconvenience.

Funny stuff in each.

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 4,635]

7 hours ago, Insein said:

Season 8 Pitch Meeting

yeah what did happen to the horse arya was riding on? FFS 

[Insein 8,310]

48 minutes ago, falguy said:

This was the first "Pitch" I had seen so I watched a bunch more because it was super easy. Barely an inconvenience.

Funny stuff in each.

He's the funniest guy on that channel.

[Bob Sacamano 8,063]

11 minutes ago, Insein said:

He's the funniest guy on that channel.

“That's like saying I have a bigger #### than anyone in the Unsullied."

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 4,635]

good bye to one of my favorite shows.....

[Man of Constant Sorrow 4,750]

On 5/23/2019 at 12:26 PM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

On 5/23/2019 at 10:37 AM, beer 30 said:

Good discussion, I guess you do know something after all

1. I probably should have chosen my words more carefully but obviously Bran didn't do any killing. They way I looked at is he orchestrated the end result. You made a great analogy with him seeing multiple futures and choosing the best option. My response back would be how bad were the other options that killing all of the North and Kings Landing was the best possible outcome? Granted since he has taken on the persona of the Three Eyed Raven, Bran has an air of smugness about him but his response, "why do you think I came all this way?" really made me think he more than the 'best possible outcome' in mind. It comes off like the best possible outcome...for him. Ultimately probably the best for Westeros because it does break the wheel but I don't think even Bran could foresee that far into the future. I just felt like there was some personal gain involved which calls into question killing that many people to place yourself on the throne. I find any scenario other than the NK winning the day and making all of Westeros the Walking Dead the only outcome worse than the one that played out. You bring up a lot of good points but that was what drove my earlier statement.
2. I covered the "mapping out" part in my above response. Orchestrated...mapping out, call it what you will, meant as the same thing. As for him making the future, no I don't think Bran can make the future but I think he can orchestrate/manipulate events such that there is a high probability of a desired outcome. In this case placing himself on the throne which goes back to point 1 above, there is some self interest in play IMO. Might be totally in left field but just the feeling I had after the whole thing played out.

This is great man. It's exactly the #### that fascinates me. 

I need to think about this more.

You add some new elements that I have not given enough thought to; most specifically, Bean's smugness, but other things as well. 

I will try to post something more later tonight. 

👍

Well - I am a little late, but I have been thinking a lot about this.

1) 

Quote

They way I looked at is he orchestrated the end result. You made a great analogy with him seeing multiple futures and choosing the best option. My response back would be how bad were the other options that killing all of the North and Kings Landing was the best possible outcome?

I agree that he orchestrated the end result. On the bold - I have no answer whatsoever. And, I think that is the way GRRM wants it. No one knows other than Bran.

Thus, the only thing we can do is speculate and follow our intuition. And, I think this is exactly that:

Quote

Granted since he has taken on the persona of the Three Eyed Raven, Bran has an air of smugness about him but his response, "why do you think I came all this way?" really made me think he more than the 'best possible outcome' in mind. It comes off like the best possible outcome...for him.

Therefore, irt to this:

Quote

Ultimately probably the best for Westeros because it does break the wheel but I don't think even Bran could foresee that far into the future. I just felt like there was some personal gain involved which calls into question killing that many people to place yourself on the throne.

I agree that this is probably the best for Westeros. I especially agree with the word probably. 👍

Also, I agree that Bran most likely could not see that far into the future. Thus, I can more easily accept his mistakes.

I also see the personal gain and agree that it is a red flag for questioning such a horrific war - in all aspects.

 

Quote

I find any scenario other than the NK winning the day and making all of Westeros the Walking Dead the only outcome worse than the one that played out. You bring up a lot of good points but that was what drove my earlier statement.

On this, we obviously disagree, or else this discussion would never have started. At the moment, I still disagree - but I cannot argue with any of your points. I think that once a person has gone through the process you have just explained, there is no debating the validity of the results. You have found your answer. I accept it as valid.

 

2) Very nice breakdown. It's valid as well.

 

Thanks for explaining your view to me. It will help me in my reread.

✌️😎

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 4,635]

Nice breakdown....see i think than bran angle everyone missed....he manipulated controlled it all.....of course the show runners did a poor job showing it....but if you sit back and think... 

[The Duff Man 950]

Maybe Bran is working with the Children of the Forest.  What is the relationship between them and the three eyed raven anyway?

This was all part of a long con, to get humans to wipe out the walkers and get Bran on the throne, so they could continue their millennia old war and wipe humans off Westeros. 

[SHIZNITTTT 2,534]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYoxNbQGS94

5 minutes of the Hound roasting people 

[beer 30 2,019]

12 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Thanks for explaining your view to me. It will help me in my reread.

✌️😎

As always, well done MoCS . These rereads are going to be interesting to be sure but be careful not to focus too much on what the show has shown us. That’s my fear, that I’m going to read these again through the glasses of GoT’s the show as opposed to GoT’s the story. I forget who but one of the contributors in this thread summed it up well, GRRM gave them the ending and a rough outline how to get there but I think they used a lot of latitude. They made it a Hollywood story as opposed to a GoT’s story.

[stbugs 1,242]

I’m a little confused. Where is all this talk about Bran seeing the future coming from? Did I miss something? I always thought he could only go into the past, hence the NK wanting to kill of the history of man. Whenever he needed to find out what the NK was doing, he warged into crows to see where he was and to get him to come. I know people may point out waiting for Jamie but if he’s seeing recent past he would have known he was estranged from Cersei for months (real time not show time, not sure how long the trip would be).

Also, I can understand the manipulation of people to get the best outcome, but I don’t think Bran could see the future (his crows saw the dragon and their march). Only the priestesses were able to see that. I think that his comment at the end was honestly more of a Hollywoodized scripted ending than a truly well thought out special meaning. I think reading into anything in the last season opens up some incorrect assumptions. I think it’s pretty clear that the writing/stories weren’t the same anymore. I think there was a here’s where we are and here’s the ending, just write something tha takes us from point A to B with closure and moments for the fans with their favorite characters. Reading anything more into it assumes that the script truly was way more well thought out than I assume it was.

Edited May 26 by stbugs

[stbugs 1,242]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:06 AM, Insein said:

Season 8 Pitch Meeting

Watched this again, so good. Dragons, scorpions, Dothraki and forgetfulness. Makes you feel a little better even though at the same time it makes you feel worse about the show when you realize how true it is.

[Slapdash 14,428]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Watched this again, so good. Dragons, scorpions, Dothraki and forgetfulness. Makes you feel a little better even though at the same time it makes you feel worse about the show when you realize how true it is.

Yeah, it is a really great commentary.  Which is sad.

[Ghost Rider 4,500]

19 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Nice breakdown....see i think than bran angle everyone missed....he manipulated controlled it all.....of course the show runners did a poor job showing it....but if you sit back and think... 

Most would rather just piss and moan.  The backlash to this last season just shows how awful the internet can be. 

[Mile High 3,855]

13 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Most would rather just piss and moan.  The backlash to this last season just shows how awful the internet can be. 

Or how awful the last season was. 

[Charlie Steiner 1,450]

1 minute ago, Ghost Rider said:

Most would rather just piss and moan.  The backlash to this last season just shows how awful the internet can be. 

Which ironically supports one of GRRM's main themes throughout the series--people are the worst.

To me, all this complaining reminds me of the scene in Stand By Me, right after Gordie finishes telling his 'barfomrama' story, Teddy says "Then what happened?" 

[cap'n grunge 6,316]

On 4/29/2019 at 6:10 AM, El Floppo said:

A girl has no hymen

This deserves a bump. Some of the best work done in this thread.

[Captain Cranks 3,884]

2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Most would rather just piss and moan.  The backlash to this last season just shows how awful the internet can be. 

As someone with a Breaking Bad icon, you should know how a final season and series finale is done.  People wouldn't piss and moan about GoT if it was good. 

Those pissing and moaning about the pissing and moaning just don't have high standards for the final season of a show that was setting the bar pretty high.  

[Ghost Rider 4,500]

46 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

As someone with a Breaking Bad icon, you should know how a final season and series finale is done.  People wouldn't piss and moan about GoT if it was good. 

Those pissing and moaning about the pissing and moaning just don't have high standards for the final season of a show that was setting the bar pretty high.  

The last season was not great and had some clear flaws. I have said that, but this idea that it was terrible, awful, etc. is just way over the top.  There were a crap load of great GoT moments in Season 8. 

Also, it is unrealistic to expect other shows to be as close to flawless as Breaking Bad was from start to finish.  Even The Sopranos, which I'd also put in the GoT category, had a choppy last season (or two if we want to count 6a and 6b as two).  It is not easy to do that many seasons and never have hiccups.  

Edited May 26 by Ghost Rider

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 4,635]

2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

The last season was not great and had some clear flaws. I have said that, but this idea that it was terrible, awful, etc. is just way over the top.  There were a crap load of great GoT moments in Season 8. 

Also, it is unrealistic to expect other shows to be as close to flawless as Breaking Bad was from start to finish.  Even The Sopranos, which I'd also put in the GoT category, had a choppy last season (or two if we want to count 6a and 6b as two).  It is not easy to do that many seasons and never have hiccups.  

Yeah the whole vito story line was awful as was the actually ending of sopranos....i dd like the phil vs tony war though.....

[badmojo1006 6,022]

Hmmmm...something is missing

[Kevrunner 198]

Lena  Headey (Cersei)  refused to do any scenes with Jerome Flynn (Bronn).   Seems they use to date and evidently had a bad breakup.  They don’t even speak to each other.

[Good Posting Judge 13,516]

GOT season 8 "making of" documentary > GOT season 8

[Good Posting Judge 13,516]

 

On 6/4/2013 at 8:42 AM, Officer Pete Malloy said:

OK, this is soooo stupid...

RULES.

[otb_lifer 5,347]

empty Sunday night ... it was a helluva run.

recalling the power of the earlier writing - the show had unparalleled brilliance; the latter seasons just don't compare 

i'm not TIRED!

pops laying it down

jugglers and singers require applause

favorite scene of the lot

[Ilov80s 20,147]

3 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

empty Sunday night ... it was a helluva run.

recalling the power of the earlier writing - the show had unparalleled brilliance; the latter seasons just don't compare 

i'm not TIRED!

pops laying it down

jugglers and singers require applause

favorite scene of the lot

Tywin, Robert, Cersei, and Tyrion might be the 4 best characters on the show- I could watch endlessly 

[otb_lifer 5,347]

19 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Tywin, Robert, Cersei, and Tyrion might be the 4 best characters on the show- I could watch endlessly 

and Joffrey bought an awful lot of mustard, as well ... gotta hand it to that kid Gleeson, he was a pitch perfect villainous lil' #### 

Dance and Headey and Dinklage are Grade-A heavyweights, their scenes together are some of the finest acting one could hope to ever see on any screen or stage - they were magnificent.

... and Bobby B, greatest King the realm ever saw - need we say more? 

[Northern Voice 6,573]

7 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

GOT season 8 "making of" documentary > GOT season 8

Was coming in here to see if anyone watched it/was it worthwhile. 

[Ghost Rider 4,500]

33 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Tywin, Robert, Cersei, and Tyrion might be the 4 best characters on the show- I could watch endlessly 

I can't put Robert on that list (he was great, but wasn't around long enough), but I agree that Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion were all incredible characters.  Those damn Lannisters.