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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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4 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

Now who's in someone's head. I don't think it's dirt at all. Just a bad break up and she's still pissed about it. And I'm not defending her actions at all. I wish I could've seen a scene where she gives Bronn the crossbow and tells him to murder both Tyrion and Jamie which would've been quite powerful. Instead we get Qyburn doing it. That robbed us of what would've been something great. 

But they did give us b00bies instead. If I'm not mistaken the only naked scene in the entire season aside from Arya's sideboob. So, there's that.

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Wonder if he was excluded from the big table reads like the one they showed on the special?

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4 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Just yesterday realized Lena Headey was the Mom in the first Purge movie.  Nice legs in that movie.  

:wub:

Long Live My Queen!

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Man we really should lock this thread

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6 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Man we really should lock this thread

for such a screen name you sure sound like a 'stick up the ###' kinda guy :shrug:

c'mon, Beer ... lighten up - lunch time brews on me, whaddya say? :suds:

 

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1 hour ago, TheFanatic said:

Now who's in someone's head. I don't think it's dirt at all. Just a bad break up and she's still pissed about it. And I'm not defending her actions at all. I wish I could've seen a scene where she gives Bronn the crossbow and tells him to murder both Tyrion and Jamie which would've been quite powerful. Instead we get Qyburn doing it. That robbed us of what would've been something great. 

Meh its not like her and Bronn ever had a relationship on the show (at least that I can remember).  Makes sense Q would give the hit orders...

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1 hour ago, TheFanatic said:

Now who's in someone's head. I don't think it's dirt at all. Just a bad break up and she's still pissed about it. And I'm not defending her actions at all. I wish I could've seen a scene where she gives Bronn the crossbow and tells him to murder both Tyrion and Jamie which would've been quite powerful. Instead we get Qyburn doing it. That robbed us of what would've been something great. 

Did you even notice during the show without knowing the actors dated? Seems nitpicky.

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4 minutes ago, mozzy84 said:

Meh its not like her and Bronn ever had a relationship on the show (at least that I can remember).  Makes sense Q would give the hit orders...

BINGO!

oh, and IN before the incoming " they had no relationship on the show because mega ##### Headey refused to do scenes with Flynn!!!!!!" shtick. 

3 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Did you even notice during the show without knowing the actors dated? Seems nitpicky.

YAHTZEE!

not like she ceased doing scenes with Jaime or Tyrion or Tywin ... ya know? Bronn was small potatoes in the Queen's vista. 

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It would so awesome to be able to ban some of my coworkers from speaking or being around me.    Quite brilliant actually

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1 hour ago, otb_lifer said:

 not buying any of this #### for a minute ... not once have you even allowed that Flynn may actually bear some culpability here ... #### that, keep your head in the sand. 

oh, and the crossbow scene, ya mean the one where the payoff was Bronn somehow gaining unfettered access to those two in a heavily fortified area?  the one that fizzled the #### out and went absolutely nowhere?

and, btw, Qyburn was her flunkie ... the Queen need not consort wif a sell sword to order a hit - she has minions like Q to do that legwork - didn't bother me at all. 

ahem, go back and read the post above this one? I edited it over an hour ago. In fact, I was editing it when you made your comment because I got the alert that you had posted while I was typing. 

I get that you are all team cersei, but we're talking about the actors, not the characters. 

Also, the scene I'm talking about was when Qyburn gave her the crossbow and told Bronn to kill the brothers. Sure she has lackies but that request would've been made by the queen had the actress not had the clause in her contract. And having Cersei say she wants Jamie dead is way more powerful than some lackie and been a better scene. 

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Just now, TheFanatic said:

ahem, go back and read the post above this one? I edited it over an hour ago. In fact, I was editing it when you made your comment because I got the alert that you had posted while I was typing. 

I get that you are all team cersei, but we're talking about the actors, not the characters. 

Also, the scene I'm talking about was when Qyburn gave her the crossbow and told Bronn to kill the brothers. Sure she has lackies but that request would've been made by the queen had the actress not had the clause in her contract. And having Cersei say she wants Jamie dead is way more powerful than some lackie and been a better scene. 

ok, fair enough 

look, there's tons to nitpick about s7&8, don't think anyone's losing sleep over the omission you cite, what with all the other massive action thrown at us ... and weren't you up in this thread a week or so ago telling folks who were nitpicking to get over it?  "physician, heal thyself" :shrug:

btw, do we know Cersei actually mandated those hits? Qyburn was a devious mutha, remember, he was left to die at the hands of the Lannister army, it was Robb Stark and his wife who saved his life and nursed him back to health ...

i mean, Cersei had Tyrion dead to rights during s8e4, at the gates of KL, and she nary batted an eyelash of surprise that the sell sword failed in his quest -

dunno, if i'm wrong here plz advise ...

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1 hour ago, otb_lifer said:

for such a screen name you sure sound like a 'stick up the ###' kinda guy :shrug:

c'mon, Beer ... lighten up - lunch time brews on me, whaddya say? :suds:

 

I think if you look back over my years of work here you'll see that I am anything but. Ignore that 12-13 month ban mixed in there someplace. I got counseling and I'm much better now.

And always up for lunch brews :thumbup:

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We have no idea what happened to those two. Maybe there was some kind of mental/verbal abuse from either one? Who knows? It really is nobody’s business and it never affected the show. 

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1 minute ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

shes hot, except for tatts

 

MILF-tastic at 46!  :wub:

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3 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

shes hot, except for tatts

 

Grow up.

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1 hour ago, Good Posting Judge said:
1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

shes hot, except for tatts

 

Grow up.

He's right.  Those are just nasty.  And not in a sexy nasty way.

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11 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

I love a good tramp stamp.....but hers are too random and weird.....

Your face is too random and weird

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7 hours ago, Capella said:

We have no idea what happened to those two. Maybe there was some kind of mental/verbal abuse from either one? Who knows? It really is nobody’s business and it never affected the show. 

Exactly.  How much did Cersei and Bronn even interact on the show in the early seasons?  Maybe once or twice, from what I remember.  Not a big deal at all. 

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1 hour ago, comfortably numb said:

That ending would have been epic. 

Everything but keeping Dany a face is great. I really do think the heel turn was brilliant.....just not executed properly for most.

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That ending would have been okay, but Dany getting pregnant and having Jon's child and then Cersei having lied to Jaime about being pregnant sounded too soap opera-ish.  While I am someone who wish Dany would have not turned like she did and ultimately ended up on the throne at the end, the Starks winning the Game of Thrones was probably the right way to end it. 

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22 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

That ending would have been okay, but Dany getting pregnant and having Jon's child and then Cersei having lied to Jaime about being pregnant sounded too soap opera-ish.  While I am someone who wish Dany would have not turned like she did and ultimately ended up on the throne at the end, the Starks winning the Game of Thrones was probably the right way to end it. 

I always thought cersei and danny might have died giving birth...like their moms....

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On 5/27/2019 at 6:27 PM, Ghost Rider said:

Exactly. 

Heck, we could point at the episode in S2 of Game of Thrones where Littlefinger clearly recognizes Arya when talking to Twyin, and even though he reacts to seeing her and his eyes follow her as she crosses the room, Tywin, a guy who never missed a thing, didn't notice despite the fact that he was looking right at Littlefinger the entire time.   But, oh wait, that is Season 2, and the writers never did a thing wrong when using the book material,  according to some. 

I totally disagree. 

Littlefinger didn't know it was arya.

If he did he'd have capitalized on it in some way.  That's who littlefinger is. 

The whole point of that scene is that she's in maximum danger, and we see glimpses of who she's going to become. 

She leaves king's landing as a girl, dressed as a boy, hiding the fact that she's one of the most wanted individuals in westeros. 

Tywin noticed right away that she's a girl, and figures out that she's high born by the way she says my lady instead of m'lady. She pulls the my father was a stonemason and my mother worked for a lady thing.  She even has a great move where she says her mother taught her how to speak proper... then immediately corrects herself and says properly.  That was her beginning to learn how to play the game of faces. 

That's when jackin hagar offers her 3 names. Look at who she picked.  Not tywin. Not joffrey, who had her father killed.  She didn't get revenge. She made selfless choices.  The tickler, because he was torturing people to death.  The guy who was going to report her to tywin because she was trying to help robb. And the guards to help her friends escape.  All of her choices helped people who were in danger.  The opposite of her choosing merin trant over the gambler.  

And the scene with littlefinger was the most difficult test.  He was one of the most cunning spy masters alive, suspected something was off, and she had no choice but to be in the room with him while he tried to catch a glimpse of her face. 

Compare that scene with her tip toeing through a library full of wights later, and you see she's always has this uncanny ability to move around without being noticed.  It's part of what made her an ideal assassin. 

People complained about arya killing the night king and not using her faceless man skills to kill cersei. But i think they're missing the point.  She did use the faceless man skills to kill frey. The guy who betrayed her family more than anyone.  She used her stealth that we saw with her learning from cats and overhearing varys - someone else who should have been very difficult to spy on- to sneak past the wights and white walkers and get close to the night king.  Even back in episode 1.1 when bran is practicing with the bow and an arrow suddenly hits center target from out of nowhere.  She used her fighting skills that we saw with the waif and brienne to finish the job, but it was her stealth that made her able to do it.  

And after all she learned from the hound, the last lesson was to go home and not let revenge consume her like it had done to him. 

Would i like to have seen her wear another face?  Sure, if it was a slow, methodical assassination.  But her arc was one of the best prepared in the show, and that littlefinger scene was a prime example of who she was becoming. 

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A thought on fan outrage and nitpicking art:

It's ok if you don't like something. But consider the effort that goes into the films and music that you listen to. Dissecting the minutiae of something to point out every single flaw is ironic, as almost all great art contains flaws. Bizarre that consumers of art believe they're better artists than the creatives that spawned the media they purport to have loved. I'm not saying that fans are devoid of talent. My son showed me a 26 minute YouTube that was solely a critique of flaws in Fallout '76. It has 4.8 million views. In 2019, creating & uploading content has never been easier. I think this is leading to the devaluation of real art.

Really, the least interesting thing anyone can say is, "I didn't like it."

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41 minutes ago, jdoggydogg said:

A thought on fan outrage and nitpicking art:

It's ok if you don't like something. But consider the effort that goes into the films and music that you listen to. Dissecting the minutiae of something to point out every single flaw is ironic, as almost all great art contains flaws. Bizarre that consumers of art believe they're better artists than the creatives that spawned the media they purport to have loved. I'm not saying that fans are devoid of talent. My son showed me a 26 minute YouTube that was solely a critique of flaws in Fallout '76. It has 4.8 million views. In 2019, creating & uploading content has never been easier. I think this is leading to the devaluation of real art.

Really, the least interesting thing anyone can say is, "I didn't like it."

Did you watch the Behind The Scenes documentary? I thought it was really illuminating to see the people who worked, usually under strain, to help make that show. In really thankless jobs.
Which, in my opinion, makes how shoddily the producers and writers handled this season all the more worse. Imagine people who tirelessly build a ship, take care of it in-between voyages, and then the captains get sloppy and run it aground.

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1 hour ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Did you watch the Behind The Scenes documentary? I thought it was really illuminating to see the people who worked, usually under strain, to help make that show. In really thankless jobs.
Which, in my opinion, makes how shoddily the producers and writers handled this season all the more worse. Imagine people who tirelessly build a ship, take care of it in-between voyages, and then the captains get sloppy and run it aground.

Doc was great. But I don't concede the writing or producing was sloppy. I think it's easier to write one great episode (Red Wedding for example) than it is to finish out the series perfectly. The show made some mistakes, there's no doubt. I'm certain if the writers created 100 final seasons, someone would complain about every single iteration. 

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1 minute ago, jdoggydogg said:

Doc was great. But I don't concede the writing or producing was sloppy. I think it's easier to write one great episode (Red Wedding for example) than it is to finish out the series perfectly. The show made some mistakes, there's no doubt. I'm certain if the writers created 100 final seasons, someone would complain about every single iteration. 

I concede that having a "satisfying" ending to a show like GOT is tougher to pull off than a good ending to a show with fewer characters, like "Breaking Bad" or "Veep", which had a really good final episode.

A lot of people, critics and fans, have been really dissatisfied with the show. I realize that's wholly subjective, but more people definitely crinkled up their noses at this season, and to some extent, the 7th season.

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12 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

I concede that having a "satisfying" ending to a show like GOT is tougher to pull off than a good ending to a show with fewer characters, like "Breaking Bad" or "Veep", which had a really good final episode.

A lot of people, critics and fans, have been really dissatisfied with the show. I realize that's wholly subjective, but more people definitely crinkled up their noses at this season, and to some extent, the 7th season.

Here's the thing: when has this show ever cared about a satisfying ending? When The Viper fought The Mountain, we all wanted the same ending and the show didn't give it to us. 

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2 minutes ago, jdoggydogg said:

Doc was great. But I don't concede the writing or producing was sloppy. I think it's easier to write one great episode (Red Wedding for example) than it is to finish out the series perfectly. The show made some mistakes, there's no doubt. I'm certain if the writers created 100 final seasons, someone would complain about every single iteration. 

I agree with you to the extent that writers are never going to satisfy everyone with their plot decisions in how they wrap up a story.  But I think the predominant complaints about Thrones aren’t so much about the overarching plot decisions as opposed to the process by which the show got there.  Sure, a lot of people would have never been satisfied with the show ending with Bran on the Throne.  It wasn’t my first choice either, but I would have been totally fine with it if they had laid the track for the show to get that point.  The complaint that the show rushed through things like this (Dany’s heel turn being an even more egregious example) is, at least in my opinion, a more objective and reasonable basis for criticism than complaining about the substance of those plot outcomes. 

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34 minutes ago, thecatch said:

I agree with you to the extent that writers are never going to satisfy everyone with their plot decisions in how they wrap up a story.  But I think the predominant complaints about Thrones aren’t so much about the overarching plot decisions as opposed to the process by which the show got there.  Sure, a lot of people would have never been satisfied with the show ending with Bran on the Throne.  It wasn’t my first choice either, but I would have been totally fine with it if they had laid the track for the show to get that point.  The complaint that the show rushed through things like this (Dany’s heel turn being an even more egregious example) is, at least in my opinion, a more objective and reasonable basis for criticism than complaining about the substance of those plot outcomes. 

Agree.

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10 hours ago, bostonfred said:

I totally disagree. 

Littlefinger didn't know it was arya.

If he did he'd have capitalized on it in some way.  That's who littlefinger is. 

The whole point of that scene is that she's in maximum danger, and we see glimpses of who she's going to become. 

She leaves king's landing as a girl, dressed as a boy, hiding the fact that she's one of the most wanted individuals in westeros. 

Tywin noticed right away that she's a girl, and figures out that she's high born by the way she says my lady instead of m'lady. She pulls the my father was a stonemason and my mother worked for a lady thing.  She even has a great move where she says her mother taught her how to speak proper... then immediately corrects herself and says properly.  That was her beginning to learn how to play the game of faces. 

That's when jackin hagar offers her 3 names. Look at who she picked.  Not tywin. Not joffrey, who had her father killed.  She didn't get revenge. She made selfless choices.  The tickler, because he was torturing people to death.  The guy who was going to report her to tywin because she was trying to help robb. And the guards to help her friends escape.  All of her choices helped people who were in danger.  The opposite of her choosing merin trant over the gambler.  

And the scene with littlefinger was the most difficult test.  He was one of the most cunning spy masters alive, suspected something was off, and she had no choice but to be in the room with him while he tried to catch a glimpse of her face. 

Compare that scene with her tip toeing through a library full of wights later, and you see she's always has this uncanny ability to move around without being noticed.  It's part of what made her an ideal assassin. 

People complained about arya killing the night king and not using her faceless man skills to kill cersei. But i think they're missing the point.  She did use the faceless man skills to kill frey. The guy who betrayed her family more than anyone.  She used her stealth that we saw with her learning from cats and overhearing varys - someone else who should have been very difficult to spy on- to sneak past the wights and white walkers and get close to the night king.  Even back in episode 1.1 when bran is practicing with the bow and an arrow suddenly hits center target from out of nowhere.  She used her fighting skills that we saw with the waif and brienne to finish the job, but it was her stealth that made her able to do it.  

And after all she learned from the hound, the last lesson was to go home and not let revenge consume her like it had done to him. 

Would i like to have seen her wear another face?  Sure, if it was a slow, methodical assassination.  But her arc was one of the best prepared in the show, and that littlefinger scene was a prime example of who she was becoming. 

Littlefinger absolutely knew who she was; he did a double take the second he saw her face and then his eyes followed her as she moved across the room, and then he made a point to mention that he had spoken to Catelyn Stark about her daughters, knowing one was right there to hear it.  He did not give her away at the time because he had nothing to gain from it, and Littlefinger was always about doing what was best for himself, first and foremost, and he already had a plan in motion.  Outing Arya could have disrupted it. 

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35 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Littlefinger absolutely knew who she was; he did a double take the second he saw her face and then his eyes followed her as she moved across the room, and then he made a point to mention that he had spoken to Catelyn Stark about her daughters, knowing one was right there to hear it.  He did not give her away at the time because he had nothing to gain from it, and Littlefinger was always about doing what was best for himself, first and foremost, and he already had a plan in motion.  Outing Arya could have disrupted it. 

I agree with this.  Information that you keep to yourself may have a value later.  Just revealing her identity to Tywin has none.

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3 hours ago, jdoggydogg said:

The complaint that the show rushed through things like this (Dany’s heel turn being an even more egregious example)

It seemed to me that they telegraphed that "hell turn" for many seasons.  People just didn't want to see it, much like Tyrion.

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6 hours ago, jdoggydogg said:

 

Really, the least interesting thing anyone can say is, "I didn't like it."

I get what you are saying and agree with a lot of it.  However the least interesting thing or worst thing for me that people is say is more on the lines of:  shut up and just take what the creators are giving you.  Forget that.  I would rather have people thinking about and nitpicking it than just shoving in popcorn and mindlessly consuming these things.  

I know you have discussed the difference between good and bad writing and the like in the movie threads.  We can be in awe of what it takes to make these shows and movies and still demand quality product.  

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38 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I agree with this.  Information that you keep to yourself may have a value later.  Just revealing her identity to Tywin has none.

:yes: 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I agree with this.  Information that you keep to yourself may have a value later.  Just revealing her identity to Tywin has none.

I don't think so. Arya has a ton of value since Baelish had just spoken to Cat about trading *both* daughters (when they only had Sansa) for Jaime. Not to mention, Baelish gets rewarded for the Tyrell/Baratheon marriage. Facilitating the return of Jaime or just another key hostage is well worth his time. I mean, he just leaves her there no one the wiser? There is no way he would expect her to just stay there for him to pick up later. There is no guarantee she would remain there one more hour after she left Tywin and Petyr's presence.

7 hours ago, thecatch said:

I agree with you to the extent that writers are never going to satisfy everyone with their plot decisions in how they wrap up a story.  But I think the predominant complaints about Thrones aren’t so much about the overarching plot decisions as opposed to the process by which the show got there.  Sure, a lot of people would have never been satisfied with the show ending with Bran on the Throne.  It wasn’t my first choice either, but I would have been totally fine with it if they had laid the track for the show to get that point.  The complaint that the show rushed through things like this (Dany’s heel turn being an even more egregious example) is, at least in my opinion, a more objective and reasonable basis for criticism than complaining about the substance of those plot outcomes. 

Exactly. They writers were great when they were doing book reports. They weren't that great when they had to write the book themselves.

Edited by sn0mm1s
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1 hour ago, sn0mm1s said:

I don't think so. Arya has a ton of value since Baelish had just spoken to Cat about trading *both* daughters (when they only had Sansa) for Jaime. Not to mention, Baelish gets rewarded for the Tyrell/Baratheon marriage. Facilitating the return of Jaime or just another key hostage is well worth his time. I mean, he just leaves her there no one the wiser? There is no way he would expect her to just stay there for him to pick up later. There is no guarantee she would remain there one more hour after she left Tywin and Petyr's presence.

But knowing she is around without revealing the info gives him the ability to trade with either side later.

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16 hours ago, jdoggydogg said:

Here's the thing: when has this show ever cared about a satisfying ending? When The Viper fought The Mountain, we all wanted the same ending and the show didn't give it to us. 

Yet people generally loved that fight/episode and raved over it.  Because it made sense and was really well done.  The exact opposite (other than effects-wise) of this last season.

If anything the Viper/Mountain fight works counter to your point here.  It shows that people are still willing to love something even if it's not what they thought they wanted, if it is done well and makes sense.  Season 8 was neither of those things.

As to your first sentence, again it makes little sense to me.  If anything story wise the ending was OVERLY satisfying.  A show that was never going to have a happy ending had a super duper happy Hollywood ending.  If anything it was too "satisfying".  The unsatisfying part was that it was done with all the subtlety and intrigue of a Transformers movie.

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7 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

But knowing she is around without revealing the info gives him the ability to trade with either side later.

But he doesn't really have anything to trade later. With war, famine, torturing, raping, etc. etc. occurring all around what good is it for him to say "I saw Arya 6 months ago acting as a cupbearer for Lord Tywin at Harrenhal." If he wanted to keep her as a trading piece he should've grabbed her covertly *then* (similar to what he does with Sansa after Joffrey's death). It does him no good to leave her behind.

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The Shield remains the only 5+ season series where the last season was the best season.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

It seemed to me that they telegraphed that "hell turn" for many seasons.  People just didn't want to see it, much like Tyrion.

Danaerys going mad made sense in the framework of the story, but I think her turn could have been done better. 

Edited by jdoggydogg
I am a terrible proofreader

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