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Avoid Mike Wallace, the Raven? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Shutout
- Start date
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Very good landing spot for Wallace. Should get plenty of targets.
Faust
MVP
Dolphins deal Mike Wallace to Vikings: 5 things to know
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25106590/dolphins-deal-mike-wallace-to-vikings-5-things-to-know
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25106590/dolphins-deal-mike-wallace-to-vikings-5-things-to-know
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Or they could just draft well like the Pats and Packers. That's still the way to build a team.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There's a post a few spots up that says he was 10th best in the league with deep ball accuracy.
cstu
Footballguy
Formula for winning is pretty simple in theory:
- Get a good QB
- Draft well
- Be a desirable location for free agents (those you drafted or other teams') so you don't have to break the bank.
lod01
Footballguy
This Charles Johnson owner likes the signing. Wallace is no threat but he can run fast and at least take the CB and maybe the safety with him.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Give the guy a chance. Project coming out and made All-Pro as a kick returner his first year. And crap at qb. Wallace sucks too
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
There were some bad misses at times on deep throws from Teddy Bridgewater. The miss to Patterson for example stands out in my mind. Bridgewater did improve in all areas as a passer as the season went on.
The Vikings were not doing a good job of pass protection. So the 5 and 7 step drops were scaled back later on in the season. But I do not think this reduction of deep pass attempts was due to Bridgewaters ability to execute, but more because of the lack of pass protection and WR who were not good at getting open on the deep ball.
I have never been a fan of Mike Wallace. But I think it is going to be a good fit for him to take advantage of what he does best as long as the Vikings can buy Teddy enough time.
Here are some links related to the narrative that Bridgewater is not good at the deep ball, which I guess continues from his pro day.
Link
What's Behind Teddy Bridgewater's Struggles in the Deep-Passing Game?
Deep balls show signs of progress for Teddy Bridgewater
Minnesota Vikings: Bridgewater’s Improved Deep Ball
QB snapshot: Teddy Bridgewater
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Kind of putting the cart ahead of the horse here aren't we? Wallace outperformed Johnson in every way last season. He was brought in to be the lead dog. No threat?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Is that picture of Pouncey wearing the "Free Aaron Hernandez" hat still around? He's a moron.
I kinda laughed at that too. Wallace was pretty good all things considered last year. Was much more than just a run a 9 route type of WR. Have a feeling Wallace will be a good value pick as a WR3 that can produce like a spot WR2.Sabertooth said:Kind of putting the cart ahead of the horse here aren't we? Wallace outperformed Johnson in every way last season. He was brought in to be the lead dog. No threat?
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Make no mistake, Wallace has a lot of talent. He wasn't used properly in Miami but let's not forget that the Steelers offered Wallace 5 years and 42M before he went to Miami. He scoffed because he wanted more money and they gave that money to Antonio Brown. But they offered the money to Wallace first.I kinda laughed at that too. Wallace was pretty good all things considered last year. Was much more than just a run a 9 route type of WR. Have a feeling Wallace will be a good value pick as a WR3 that can produce like a spot WR2.Sabertooth said:Kind of putting the cart ahead of the horse here aren't we? Wallace outperformed Johnson in every way last season. He was brought in to be the lead dog. No threat?
In the Super Bowl he caught 9 passes and a touchdown against the Packers. That's not a Desean Jackson type of workload.. That's a guy getting force fed in a tight game with everything on the line.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Guy is seriously undervalued right now. He's got flaws in his game. Doesn't high point it all that well, doesn't fight for contested passes, can be a diva. But he's a more complete WR now than he was when he left Pittsburg, and he's still fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up numbers close to his career best (60/1257/10) in Norv's offense. Especially if Peterson isn't back. People are valuing him as a WR4 right now. His yearly PPR rankings?
2014 WR20
2013 WR27
2012 WR23
2011 WR9
2010 WR9
2009 WR35
Pretty confident in saying his floor is at the WR2/3 line. His ceiling is a low end WR1.
Buy, Buy, Buy.
2014 WR20
2013 WR27
2012 WR23
2011 WR9
2010 WR9
2009 WR35
Pretty confident in saying his floor is at the WR2/3 line. His ceiling is a low end WR1.
Buy, Buy, Buy.
matttyl
Footballguy
I was thinking the total opposite. If Peterson is back, he'll likely demand 8 defenders in the box, likely with Wallace having single coverage on the outside.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I put him as a low 2/high 3 WR. We all know the particulars of what he is and isn't but the two main factors to me are A)Minny has not been a stable team lately and still has legit question marks and B)The QB has potential but has not shown consistency in being able to do the thing that plays into Wallace's strength.
For those reasons, I can't see ranking him higher. For those reasons, based on talent, I can't see ranking him lower.
For those reasons, I can't see ranking him higher. For those reasons, based on talent, I can't see ranking him lower.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I watched all of Mike Wallaces targets from 2014 the other day on rewind.
What I saw was Wallace running a variety of routes. Several drag routes. out routes, hitch routes but rarely any slant routes. Most of the routes were 20 yards or less with a handful of post and go routes.
I can sort of see why he might have been unhappy with the play selection. His greatest strength of being a deep threat was not often utilized.
Wallace had trouble with passes being thrown behind him and he had some drops that were totally on him in my opinion. But Tannehill seemed to misjudge his speed on some of those crossing routes and didn't have good ball placement for Wallace to be able to run after the catch. When that ball placement was there, it usually resulted in a big play.
Something I think Bridgewater is better than Tannehill at is ball placement. So Wallace may be able to improve on those crossing routes if that is the case. Bridgewater is also better at deep passing I think. Norv Turner likes to stretch the defense and I think Wallace will get more opportunity to do what he does best in this offense.
As a red zone target Wallace did very well. Making some one handed catches and bringing the ball down in tight coverage.
Overall I think Wallace can improve on his numbers from last season.
What I saw was Wallace running a variety of routes. Several drag routes. out routes, hitch routes but rarely any slant routes. Most of the routes were 20 yards or less with a handful of post and go routes.
I can sort of see why he might have been unhappy with the play selection. His greatest strength of being a deep threat was not often utilized.
Wallace had trouble with passes being thrown behind him and he had some drops that were totally on him in my opinion. But Tannehill seemed to misjudge his speed on some of those crossing routes and didn't have good ball placement for Wallace to be able to run after the catch. When that ball placement was there, it usually resulted in a big play.
Something I think Bridgewater is better than Tannehill at is ball placement. So Wallace may be able to improve on those crossing routes if that is the case. Bridgewater is also better at deep passing I think. Norv Turner likes to stretch the defense and I think Wallace will get more opportunity to do what he does best in this offense.
As a red zone target Wallace did very well. Making some one handed catches and bringing the ball down in tight coverage.
Overall I think Wallace can improve on his numbers from last season.
Shutout
Footballguy
Fair to say that translates as he relies heavily on his speed to run under passes, might not be a very good pass catcher, might be a long-term dynasty risk (a guy that is worthless as soon as he can no longer outrun people?)
I ask this because one of the biggest impressions I always came away from Wallace when he was in Pittsburgh (and I honestly have paid very little attention to him since he left) is that he just seemed to be the guy that made the busted plays but didn't "make" many on his own. Led me to believe that he benefited/lived off Ben extending plays and his speed...which is fine, but maybe not going to translate when asked to be a true top WR in the NFL.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I certainly think Ben as his QB helped his skill set.
Bridgewater is also capable of extending plays and improved on his deep passing as the season went on (as I addressed previously in the thread). So I think Bridgewater should be an upgrade capable of better utilizing Wallace's strengths.
For the long term outlook Wallace will be 29 years old August 1st 2015. So he should be able to maintain his ability for the next 3 seasons before a decline due to age should be expected. I do think he has improved as a route runner since his time in Pittsburgh. He does a variety of things well, but as I noted, I did not see him used on quick slant routes. I don't think he is a complete WR even at this latter stage of his development. But he does do enough things well that the Vikings can play to his strengths.
Beyond 2015 is somewhat questionable. It depends on how he performs. His salary is not guaranteed, so the Vikings can part ways with him at any point if they want to. His salary jumps to $11 million in 2016.
I do think WR2 numbers are achievable in 2015 as the Vikings primary WR. Possibly very good WR2 numbers if he is able to get double digit TD again, which is possible. What the Vikings do with him in 2016 and beyond will likely depend on how well he performs in 2015. GM RIck Spielman certainly likes Wallace as he pursued him prior to Greg Jennings.
Bridgewater is also capable of extending plays and improved on his deep passing as the season went on (as I addressed previously in the thread). So I think Bridgewater should be an upgrade capable of better utilizing Wallace's strengths.
For the long term outlook Wallace will be 29 years old August 1st 2015. So he should be able to maintain his ability for the next 3 seasons before a decline due to age should be expected. I do think he has improved as a route runner since his time in Pittsburgh. He does a variety of things well, but as I noted, I did not see him used on quick slant routes. I don't think he is a complete WR even at this latter stage of his development. But he does do enough things well that the Vikings can play to his strengths.
Beyond 2015 is somewhat questionable. It depends on how he performs. His salary is not guaranteed, so the Vikings can part ways with him at any point if they want to. His salary jumps to $11 million in 2016.
I do think WR2 numbers are achievable in 2015 as the Vikings primary WR. Possibly very good WR2 numbers if he is able to get double digit TD again, which is possible. What the Vikings do with him in 2016 and beyond will likely depend on how well he performs in 2015. GM RIck Spielman certainly likes Wallace as he pursued him prior to Greg Jennings.
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Good observations. I watched a ton of Wallace last year too and saw the same thing. I think people are totally underrating what he did in the red zone. Made some tough contested catches for TDs. Definitely not a 1 trick pony like some are making him out to be. Painfully not used on the deep ball though and when he did, Tannehill was usually very inaccurate on the pass.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It is not clear to me that Mike Wallace will be used as a Z (flanker) in Norv Turners offense.
I would expect him to be used more as an X (Split end) than the Z.
The Steelers used Wallace more as a X than a Z from my understanding and the Dolphins used him more as a Z than the Steelers did.
I would expect him to be used more as an X (Split end) than the Z.
The Steelers used Wallace more as a X than a Z from my understanding and the Dolphins used him more as a Z than the Steelers did.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Who is the guy to own... Wallace or Charles Johnson?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I believe Wallace will lead the Vikings in targets, receptions and yards. Possibly TD as well.
Some folks think it will be Johnson, but he has never performed at a level that Wallace has yet. So I consider that doubtful.
Some folks think it will be Johnson, but he has never performed at a level that Wallace has yet. So I consider that doubtful.
I think Wallace is generally undervalued on this board, but if the Vikings' offense is as bad as it could be, what you said could be true and Wallace could still be a fantasy disappointment.
I'll be eyeballing his ADP carefully this offseason. I thought he had a chance to reclaim WR1 status in Miami, but he and Tannehill never could get on the same page. I have a hard time getting more excited about Bridgewater than Tannehill.
Does anyone know how the Vikings' O-line is going to be as far as pass blocking? Wallace and Tannehill had issues beyond protection, but the offensive line didn't do them any favors. If this Vikings' line can't block for a 7 step drop then chemistry won't matter. But I really don't know much about this line. A quick google search just now shows that PFF ranked them 25th last year in pass blocking, 7 spots ahead of the last place Dolphins.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Ninja if you read the 2015 Vikings thread you will see a lot of talk about the Vikings offensive line at the beginning of it and throughout the thread that maybe could catch you up on some of the details of the offensive line situation.
Pass protection really regressed in 2014 and part of it did have to do with Norv Turner calling more 5 and 7 step drops earlier on in the season before he adjusted to some quicker sets.
There were injuries to RG Brandon Fusco early on in the season who was replaced by DuCasse and then later Joe Berger because DuCasse did not play well. Later on in the season RT Phil Loadholdt was injured and repaced by Mike Harris who did not play as well. Loadholdt has had issues with pass protection before. He is a great run blocker but he struggles with quick pass ruishers a lot.
LT Matt Kalil has been the worst in pass protection the past two seasons. He has really regressed from what was a very good rookie season. As of now it seems to be the plan to play Kalil another season and see if he can play better. He supposedly did play better later in the 2014 season, but again this was after Turner adjusted the play calling somewhat to compensate for the poor protection.
The Vikings have not signed a significant free agent offensive linemen, which is something I and other Vikings fans hoped they would do. They did cut LG Charlie Johnson, who was also bad in pass protection. It is not clear who will be starting at LG right now. David Yankey was drafted in the 5th round last season. But he didn't really play. The coaching staff said he needed to get stronger to push for playing time. The Vikings certainly could have used some help when starters got injured. but they were not comfortable with having Yankey play.
There are a couple free agents out there that could still help the Vikings. But most of the good ones are signed already.
It is possible the Vikings invest in offensive line through the draft. Using a high pick to do so. In theory this could mean an improvement.
As things are now I can't say the Vikings have gotten any better at offensive line.
Pass protection really regressed in 2014 and part of it did have to do with Norv Turner calling more 5 and 7 step drops earlier on in the season before he adjusted to some quicker sets.
There were injuries to RG Brandon Fusco early on in the season who was replaced by DuCasse and then later Joe Berger because DuCasse did not play well. Later on in the season RT Phil Loadholdt was injured and repaced by Mike Harris who did not play as well. Loadholdt has had issues with pass protection before. He is a great run blocker but he struggles with quick pass ruishers a lot.
LT Matt Kalil has been the worst in pass protection the past two seasons. He has really regressed from what was a very good rookie season. As of now it seems to be the plan to play Kalil another season and see if he can play better. He supposedly did play better later in the 2014 season, but again this was after Turner adjusted the play calling somewhat to compensate for the poor protection.
The Vikings have not signed a significant free agent offensive linemen, which is something I and other Vikings fans hoped they would do. They did cut LG Charlie Johnson, who was also bad in pass protection. It is not clear who will be starting at LG right now. David Yankey was drafted in the 5th round last season. But he didn't really play. The coaching staff said he needed to get stronger to push for playing time. The Vikings certainly could have used some help when starters got injured. but they were not comfortable with having Yankey play.
There are a couple free agents out there that could still help the Vikings. But most of the good ones are signed already.
It is possible the Vikings invest in offensive line through the draft. Using a high pick to do so. In theory this could mean an improvement.
As things are now I can't say the Vikings have gotten any better at offensive line.
Thanks. Yeah, I might have a look into that thread if I get seriously interested in targeting Wallace which will depend on his ADP. I have to admit I had a chuckle when you said "Norv" and "adjust" in the same sentence. After watching him ride the Chargers down from 14-2 into total mediocrity, I feel that Norv just runs a stale offense and offers little promise to fantasy owners. He was supposed to be a stud RB maker, but that reputation has faded. He was able to get Malcom Floyd and Vincent Jackson open deep fairly regularly, so I suppose there is hope for Wallace, but this won't be a prolific offense with Norv around. Also, "open deep" might need to be a larger window for Teddy than for Rivers. Despite that goofy shot put throwing mechanism of Rivers', the guy only needed a receiver to have 1 step on a defender.
Skoo
Footballguy
I generally try and stay away from WRs like Wallace, DJax, and VJax because of consistency.
Yes, at the end of the year their stats will look good.
But when you look at fantasy points on a game-by-game basis, it's something like 2, 22, 4, 16, 21, 3, 3
Too volatile for me as a high draft pick. Give me the consistent guy.
Yes, at the end of the year their stats will look good.
But when you look at fantasy points on a game-by-game basis, it's something like 2, 22, 4, 16, 21, 3, 3
Too volatile for me as a high draft pick. Give me the consistent guy.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Norv Turner is a VERY good offensive coordinator.
I'm not going to take the time to break that all down for you right now. But I strongly disagree with your assessment of Norv Turners abilities as an offensive coach.
Josh Gordon exploded with Norv Turner and I believe played the X position which is where I expect Wallace to play. I am not saying that Wallace is as good as Josh Gordon was, but the numbers could be very friendly for Wallace in FF.
Here is an article by Chase Stewart talking about Turners coaching history and its effect on receivers yards per catch.
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