Agreed. And for dynasty it's even clearer, just from Beckham being much younger than Brown.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
WR Odell Beckham, Jr., BAL (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bob Magaw
- Start date
dirtyjay
Footballguy
24 TDs in 25 games for Odell.
I understand Norman is a fantastic CB. But he has not played a team that went at him. Every single team backs down. They let Norman shut them down out of fear not out of actions as a whole. He is playing like the best corner in the game, but he is not being challenged near enough. Throw at im 15 times, he will lose the matchup.
Much like how Sherman shut down Nelson last year. Because they didnt even throw to him.
I will take Odells talent in this matchup if they feed him, if they throw to him 5 times, I'll take Norman.
I understand Norman is a fantastic CB. But he has not played a team that went at him. Every single team backs down. They let Norman shut them down out of fear not out of actions as a whole. He is playing like the best corner in the game, but he is not being challenged near enough. Throw at im 15 times, he will lose the matchup.
Much like how Sherman shut down Nelson last year. Because they didnt even throw to him.
I will take Odells talent in this matchup if they feed him, if they throw to him 5 times, I'll take Norman.
Last edited by a moderator:
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Phenomenal receiver. Without those gloves he isn't getting mentioned with the likes of Jerry Rice.
Flame on.
Flame on.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Dude is the most exciting athlete I've seen since Jordan. I love Antonio brown--I really do--and I'm in a league where I actually have both for this year and must let one go for next year. It's not even close IMO. I've seen Brown get smothered by Sherman and last year ODB schooled Sherman. I'm not saying he's going to destroy Norman but I still think he will do well. He just has gifts that none of the other WRs have. He is on a level all his own. I thought that last year and didn't hesitate to take him every chance I had first round.
Next year, again I won't think twice about him at #1 overall in any format.
Next year, again I won't think twice about him at #1 overall in any format.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Stickam is not the same as a chemical bond to the leather of the ball. Everyone has the receiving gloves so it's an even playing field now and there are not other receivers out there making these amazing grabs still doesn't change the fact that he can't catch those barehanded.
I also think the receiving gloves are playing a huge factor in all these note catch/catch judgment calls.
dirtyjay
Footballguy
Banger
Footballguy
of course he'd mentioned with the likes of all time greats. that's just silly. you're focusing on one small aspect of his overall package...amazing speed, quickness, athleticism, runs all routes, driven, incredible leaper, huge hands and I could go on. He would be an amazing wr if he never again wore a gloves.
Also, if these gloves are such a game changer why aren't all wrs are making catches like him on a regular basis?
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Trying to throw out names like Jerry Rice just invites arguments that are pointless. It's fruitless to compare players from different eras, especially in football. It becomes a subjective argument that nobody can win. Its too easy to throw out arguments such as how the no contact rule has impacted WR's, the fact that the NFL has become a passing league, that Jerry Rice benefited from having back to back Hall of Famers throwing him the ball, etc..
I do think it's foolish to say that the gloves are making him who he is. Yes, the gloves help, and the catch against Dallas put him in the spotlight, but he also has put up numbers never seen for the first two years of any WR, which has more to do with his route running, reading defenses, ability to get open, and yds after the catch. and that is without playing 1/4 of the season last year.
Who knows what happens next year. What if the Giants actually get a run game? What if Eli gets hurt? A lot of unknowns, but he's doing the most with his opportunity.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Until he does his pregame warm-up without the gloves I stand by my statement. He is a phenomenal talent and great wide receiver but not a household name without the Dallas catch. That Dallas catch is not possible without those gloves.
And there are other receivers who make these types of catches as well as defense of backs doing it as well.
And there are other receivers who make these types of catches as well as defense of backs doing it as well.
Last edited by a moderator:
dirtyjay
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not feeling you on this one Steady.
Dude has an it factor. Take off the gloves and he would still dominate. Fact is he makes more contested catches than maybe any WR in the game (and they all have the same gear).
And stickum is every bit as beneficial as these gloves. Suggesting otherwise is splitting hairs.
Jed
Footballguy
Yep, has nothing to do with making statistical history that he's a household name.
Banger
Footballguy
that'll never happen so you can stand by your statement forever. Here's a thought...maybe he makes those catches because he practices for them more than any other wr in the history of the game. I can't recall anyone coming close to doing the exercises he does...and as Odell has said...he practices those catches like that so he can make them in the game.
The Dallas catch is one catch...even if that never happened he'd still be among the top 1-3 receptions, yards, tds...most 100 yard games in the history of the game to this point in his career. He may not have had the recognition of the average fans across the country but anyone that plays against him, game plans for him, watches film wouldn't changed their opinion even a little bit on his abilities.
shader
Footballguy
cmv5
Footballguy
That one catch put him on the radar fast but he is so much more than that one catch. What he has done in his first two seasons cannot be chalked up as one trick pony status.
If Jerry Rice is the benchmark to discuss if a guy is great then we just can't talk about anybody.
Not only was Rice great but his situation from QB, to offensive scheme, to an unusual work ethic that wasn't the norm at the time can just not be repeated in today's NFL. Shoot, punters work out like the RBs and WRs of the past. Not to mention, tackles are so violent now there is just no way for players to have that kind of longevity.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Admit it now my friend. ODB sent you packing last week. It's ok man. Get it off your chest and let the healing begin.
Chaka
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Apparently you haven't watched many of his games and is narrow minded thinking to lump his success into one catch. I'm pretty sure he would be a household name based upon his accomplishments thus far beyond that one catch and just as much as A J Green is a household name.
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
dirtyjay
Footballguy
I happen to be in a pretty big money league that the owner must visit CBS. He is benching him for Mike Evans, DeAndre Hopkins and Allen Robinson.
The struggle is real for some people when they get to the playoffs.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
What a stupid conversation
Pipes
Footballguy
I would bet 99% of OBJ owners don't have 3 WR's this caliber to start over OBJ. I could see 1 or maybe 2 but not 3.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
for most people this isnt a debate of start or no start... it's a guessing game as to what to expect production-wise
dirtyjay
Footballguy
Hopkins had Mallett as his QB in Wk 2.
Evans has a rookie QB in Wk 4.
Hilton was shut down, but is not Beckham.
Dez has not been Dez and a corner on GB shut him down too.
Julio? Falcons have given up.
Some reasons for some situations.
Key to bolded statement is "when matched up with Norman."
Beckham lines up in the slot apprx. 1/4 of the time. Coughlin acknowledged that they may have to move him around.
I'm keeping expectations low, but expect something like 6-80-0.
Pipes
Footballguy
Agreed. I just can't see benching Odell no matter who he's going up against...guy is so good. Though with 3 great options like mentioned a few posts above I'd maybe consider it. My only thought is how pissed off at myself I'd be if Odell went off and was sitting on my bench...don't think it's worth the risk.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I've stated that he is: a "phenominal talent" andChaka said:
"great receiver". I like the kid. He's a little odd but he seems like a pretty grounded and charismatic guy.
On the field, athletically? I think he's Michael Jordan in cleats and has the best hands in the league.
My only contention is those gloves are like playing with magnets on your hands. Im not saying he can't catch or that he's not a great pass catcher.
I honestly find it crazy that the majority people on this board pretend like these gloves don't help receivers catch the ball. People are just pretending because they don't want the circus catches to go away that's my only explanation.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Eh. I'm in a 12 team auction league and drafted OBJ, Hopkins, and Robinson, so this isn't really far fetched. Hopkins and Robinson didn't cost as much as some of the more popular names around them preseason rankings.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is saying the gloves don't help. But he is still making catches that nobody else is making (outside of maybe Hopkins) and every WR plays with the same gloves.
It's like discrediting Michael Jordan for his dunks because his shoes had air in them and the previous era players only had Chuck Taylors.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I think you're severely underestimating The advantage these gloves give the players today.And people are making similar catches. They aren't making them as routinely as he does but I'm sure that nobody else practices like he does. Again that's another credit to ODB
Last edited by a moderator:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I don't get your fixation with the gloves when it is a level playing field. You talk as if gloves were only invented last season. They have been around since the 90s (some guy who was pretty good also wore them) but that is beside the point, on the level playing field of todays NFL Odell seems to make more contested catches (whether by a DB, poor throw or just requiring that bit of extra effort) than any WR over the last two seasons.
I was skeptical about him coming into the season, I was disappointed when he fell to me in the second round but Dez, Julio and Antonio were off the board so I grabbed him, and I personally am not overly optimistic about his prospects this week but regardless of what happens on Sunday this kid has made a big believer out of me.
Last edited by a moderator:
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Ok. The Jordan comment was a joke, but, no, I'm not underestimating the gloves. I've used bothe gloves and the modern version of stickum (Gorilla gold). Only real difference is stickum wears off quickly and is annoying bc your fingers get stuck together. The gloves help a lot, but he is still holding on through contact. That's all him, and a lot less to do with the gloves. I mean, he's got 10" hands!! For reference, Lebron James' hand length is only 9". Shaquille has 11".
ghostguy123
Footballguy
We are talking about gloves. Gloves everyone wears. Gloves that are barely any different than anything the other greats being mentioned used. Why?
Let that sink in about how stupid this conversation is.
And also regarding this week. I don' even bother to look at who Beckham is playing to have him in the lineup. Only thing that might keep him out of the lineup is some kind of crazy blizzard or rains storm with 40 MPH winds.
Norman or no, he is in the game. And this is without the consideration that the 13-0 Panthers who have the #1 seed locked up might just not play the same defense.
Let that sink in about how stupid this conversation is.
And also regarding this week. I don' even bother to look at who Beckham is playing to have him in the lineup. Only thing that might keep him out of the lineup is some kind of crazy blizzard or rains storm with 40 MPH winds.
Norman or no, he is in the game. And this is without the consideration that the 13-0 Panthers who have the #1 seed locked up might just not play the same defense.
Chaka
Footballguy
No offense but this is some of the dumbest piston give seen in a while. The gloves? Not a household name? Dude was on the cover of madden. The Dallas catch the only reason he's famous? You're smoking some serious cheebs mixed with little crystal meth me thinks lol. Put the pipe downSTEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
unckeyherb
Footballguy
100 yards/ 2 TD day in the bag
