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TE Eric Ebron, PIT (2 Viewers)

NajehHejan said:
Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?
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Ebrons big catch against the Vikings was a blown coverage by Eric Kendricks. The Lions were running a play similar to one that Calvin Johnson scored on against the Bears. Calvin is coming across the middle and Kendricks turns to help cover him before he realizes that Sendejo has him with Harrison Smith over the top. Chad Greenway points to Ebron being wide open in the flat to Kendricks who starts pursuit but by then it was too late (and obviously Greenway didn't think he was fast enough to make the play so he points for Kendricks to do it instead).

Smith covers a lot of ground to get Ebron out of bounds and saving a TD on the play.

Pettigrew is more of a blocker than Ebron but I don't think they play the same role in the offense at all. Pettigrew being healthy could lead to more snaps for him than the Lions have been using an extra tackle, but I doubt that has any impact on Ebron's snaps or targets.

 
BobbyLayne said:
NajehHejan said:
Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep up building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?
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They have distinct roles.Petigrew has become the blocking TE, Ebron the route runner. Moore in 3 WR sets is less common than double TE, but it helps EE's value to have a healthy Brandon.

In full PPR Ebron is averaging 15.40 PPG over the four games he's been healthy. In our league, that puts him a shade behind elite in the Kelce/Olsen tier.
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Thanks! Almost seems like Calvin is option 1, Tate 2A, Ebron 2B, Riddick 2C. Not a bad place to be in the pecking order!
 
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NajehHejan said:
BobbyLayne said:
NajehHejan said:
Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep up building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?
Click to expand...
They have distinct roles.Petigrew has become the blocking TE, Ebron the route runner. Moore in 3 WR sets is less common than double TE, but it helps EE's value to have a healthy Brandon.

In full PPR Ebron is averaging 15.40 PPG over the four games he's been healthy. In our league, that puts him a shade behind elite in the Kelce/Olsen tier.
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Thanks! Almost seems like Calvin is option 1, Tate 2A, Ebron 2B, Riddick 2C. Not a bad place to be in the pecking order!
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Theo catches everything thrown his way. Literally.

Tate's been pretty ineffective. I saw a quote today he'd like to see more targets under Cooter. I LOL'ed. 61 targets on the season & he hasn't done diddley.

You'll see a lot of negative comments from Lions fans about Ebron. Drops, boneheaded plays, et al. But the reality is they hate Mayhew & what the Ebron pick represents - oh what might have been.

But he is developing into a highly productive TE who sees a ton of targets when healthy.

 
Biabreakable said:
NajehHejan said:
Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?
Click to expand...
Ebrons big catch against the Vikings was a blown coverage by Eric Kendricks. The Lions were running a play similar to one that Calvin Johnson scored on against the Bears. Calvin is coming across the middle and Kendricks turns to help cover him before he realizes that Sendejo has him with Harrison Smith over the top. Chad Greenway points to Ebron being wide open in the flat to Kendricks who starts pursuit but by then it was too late (and obviously Greenway didn't think he was fast enough to make the play so he points for Kendricks to do it instead).

Smith covers a lot of ground to get Ebron out of bounds and saving a TD on the play.

Pettigrew is more of a blocker than Ebron but I don't think they play the same role in the offense at all. Pettigrew being healthy could lead to more snaps for him than the Lions have been using an extra tackle, but I doubt that has any impact on Ebron's snaps or targets.
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Part of the reason it was a blown coverage is the design of the play. Ebron lines up right and immediately comes down into the line as if he's going to chip or pass pro. But he doesn't, he runs parallel to the line of scrimmage and then breaks off into his route. He's completely unaccounted for because the Vikings read it as he wasn't running a route.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Biabreakable said:
NajehHejan said:
Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?
Click to expand...
Ebrons big catch against the Vikings was a blown coverage by Eric Kendricks. The Lions were running a play similar to one that Calvin Johnson scored on against the Bears. Calvin is coming across the middle and Kendricks turns to help cover him before he realizes that Sendejo has him with Harrison Smith over the top. Chad Greenway points to Ebron being wide open in the flat to Kendricks who starts pursuit but by then it was too late (and obviously Greenway didn't think he was fast enough to make the play so he points for Kendricks to do it instead).

Smith covers a lot of ground to get Ebron out of bounds and saving a TD on the play.

Pettigrew is more of a blocker than Ebron but I don't think they play the same role in the offense at all. Pettigrew being healthy could lead to more snaps for him than the Lions have been using an extra tackle, but I doubt that has any impact on Ebron's snaps or targets.
Click to expand...
Part of the reason it was a blown coverage is the design of the play. Ebron lines up right and immediately comes down into the line as if he's going to chip or pass pro. But he doesn't, he runs parallel to the line of scrimmage and then breaks off into his route. He's completely unaccounted for because the Vikings read it as he wasn't running a route.
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I agree it was an excellent play designed off of a similar formation look and action from the previous week where the Bears LB got embarrassed by Calvin coming across the middle because they didn't get enough depth on their drops.

Although Kendricks blows his coverage here I like that he is reacting to what he has seen on film from the week before even though this leads to a blown coverage. Good job with the play design and how Ebron executed the play. Also Stafford who was looking at Calvin the whole way keeping the safeties and Barr focused on him instead of someone breaking to the sideline to cover Ebron.

I am glad the Vikings do not have to play the Lions again this season because their offense presents a lot of problems that are difficult to defend.

 
gbpacker52 said:
So how do we think his role is going to be affected by Jim Bob Cooter going forward?
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Supposedly he is a good coach.

I incorrectly over valued Ebron in large part because of his draft position, but also because of Lombardi coming over from the Saints indicated that the Lions might be trying to feature the TE in the passing game in a similar way that the Saints and Brees have. As it turns out the Lions offense was better under Scott Linehan.

I don't know enough about Cooter to say how this might change the offense moving forward.

 
Biabreakable said:
gbpacker52 said:
So how do we think his role is going to be affected by Jim Bob Cooter going forward?
Click to expand...
Supposedly he is a good coach.

I incorrectly over valued Ebron in large part because of his draft position, but also because of Lombardi coming over from the Saints indicated that the Lions might be trying to feature the TE in the passing game in a similar way that the Saints and Brees have. As it turns out the Lions offense was better under Scott Linehan.

I don't know enough about Cooter to say how this might change the offense moving forward.
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I don't know the specifics of what Cooter changed about the TE position during the bye week but Ebron (by his own admission) has been slow to pick up on it. He dropped a TD last weekend and was largely ignored thereafter.

 
Glad I traded this guy off. I was a believer that he'd have a solid year 2. Maybe next year after they get their front office and coaching staff figured out.

 
beef said:
Glad I traded this guy off. I was a believer that he'd have a solid year 2. Maybe next year after they get their front office and coaching staff figured out.
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I own Ebron and thought he would be my answer to the TE position but he has been largely disappointing. At one point I thought he was a career keeper. But now I am having thoughts of moving him this offseason. He has so many excuses. So damn dramatic. Im over this ride.
 
Georg, for a guy who is usually happy to pick kids and let them grow, I think cutting a TE with Ebron's upside half way through his second season is pretty hasty. I very often agree with you on who guys are and will be. But TE takes time and I think Ebron is a guy you should expect to take time. All the tools are there if the role and offense become an ingrained pattern (although regime change could slow that further). Holding as a TE2 into next year seems like a good bet to me (if you have a decent number of slots).

 
Catbird said:
Georg, for a guy who is usually happy to pick kids and let them grow, I think cutting a TE with Ebron's upside half way through his second season is pretty hasty. I very often agree with you on who guys are and will be. But TE takes time and I think Ebron is a guy you should expect to take time. All the tools are there if the role and offense become an ingrained pattern (although regime change could slow that further). Holding as a TE2 into next year seems like a good bet to me (if you have a decent number of slots).
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I hear you. It is just that these drops seem to be a theme he cant shake. If he loses Stffords faith he is worthless. We have the roster space in our league so I can hold. However, I would be lying if I said the frustration wasnt starting to get to me.

 
The drops definitely hurt because it breaks trust with Stafford that Ebron will make a play. That lack of trust leads to fewer targets.

Ebron is actually doing ok with a 62.8% catch rate. He has 43 targets and 27 catches. I am not sure how many of those misses are the result of dropped passes, but Ebrons catch percentage isn't much worse than Lance Moore or Golden Tate.

Lance Moore getting similar targets to Ebron is further eating into his opportunity.

In dynasty he is hold or buy depending on the price. Ebron could end up having a much larger role in the passing offense next season if offseason moves fall in his favor.

 
Biabreakable said:
The drops definitely hurt because it breaks trust with Stafford that Ebron will make a play. That lack of trust leads to fewer targets.

Ebron is actually doing ok with a 62.8% catch rate. He has 43 targets and 27 catches. I am not sure how many of those misses are the result of dropped passes, but Ebrons catch percentage isn't much worse than Lance Moore or Golden Tate.

Lance Moore getting similar targets to Ebron is further eating into his opportunity.

In dynasty he is hold or buy depending on the price. Ebron could end up having a much larger role in the passing offense next season if offseason moves fall in his favor.
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5 drops on the year.

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

The thing that magnifies it for a lot of fans is they have come at such critical times. A badly needed third down in the opener versus SD (Chargers got the ball back & completed the comeback.) TD last week. There was another game where I think he had two drops at crucial times and they went on to lose.

The rap against him coming out of college was bad hands, body catcher, drops too many catchable balls. Plus a lot of Lions fans hate him just because we're the only team stupid enough to take a TE in the top 20. It's happened three times in NFL history - Vernon Davis at #6, Pettigrew at #20, Ebron at #10. Passed on OBJ and Aaron Donald. ####### Mayhew.

 
Yeah in retrospect it was a bad pick. Fooled me into overvaluing Ebron because of the draft pick being in similar range as Davis, Winslow 2 ect. who have had some pretty solid careers.

Ebron hasn't had the volume of targets that Winslow got yet, but if he does I think he has similar upside for FF.

It would have been kind of weird if the Lions took Donald while already having Suh and Fairley, They didn't necessarily need a TE more than a WR or DT unless Lombardi had Drew Brees in his back pocket. That seemed to be the sell, to shift the Lions offense to something more similar to what the Saints have been doing and therefore they needed a good receiving TE. Nope. Didn't work and now Lombari is gone leaving the reason they drafted Ebron so high more questionable.

 
Cut him in redraft for a coach. We have to start one, he gets points if he wins. That's how little faith I have in him for the rest of this year.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Biabreakable said:
The drops definitely hurt because it breaks trust with Stafford that Ebron will make a play. That lack of trust leads to fewer targets.

Ebron is actually doing ok with a 62.8% catch rate. He has 43 targets and 27 catches. I am not sure how many of those misses are the result of dropped passes, but Ebrons catch percentage isn't much worse than Lance Moore or Golden Tate.

Lance Moore getting similar targets to Ebron is further eating into his opportunity.

In dynasty he is hold or buy depending on the price. Ebron could end up having a much larger role in the passing offense next season if offseason moves fall in his favor.
Click to expand...
5 drops on the year.

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

The thing that magnifies it for a lot of fans is they have come at such critical times. A badly needed third down in the opener versus SD (Chargers got the ball back & completed the comeback.) TD last week. There was another game where I think he had two drops at crucial times and they went on to lose.

The rap against him coming out of college was bad hands, body catcher, drops too many catchable balls. Plus a lot of Lions fans hate him just because we're the only team stupid enough to take a TE in the top 20. It's happened three times in NFL history - Vernon Davis at #6, Pettigrew at #20, Ebron at #10. Passed on OBJ and Aaron Donald. ####### Mayhew.
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Vernon Davis didn't produce until his 4th year. I'm holding out hope, without having much faith.

 
Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 high first rd TEs....and neither one can catch the ball. Ebron can`t catch or block. Pettigrew can at least block.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Plus a lot of Lions fans hate him just because we're the only team stupid enough to take a TE in the top 20. It's happened three times in NFL history - Vernon Davis at #6, Pettigrew at #20, Ebron at #10. Passed on OBJ and Aaron Donald. ####### Mayhew.
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Kellen Winslow Jr? Jeremy Shockey? Bubba Franks?

Lots of TEs have been picked in the top 20.

Ebron has been a disappointment so far though. No doubt about that. I expected more by now.

 
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vernon davis sucked until his 4th season. i don't own ebron in any league anymore since i got an offer i had to accept, but if i could grab him for cheap i'd stash and hold for another year or two.

 
Da Guru said:
Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 high first rd TEs....and neither one can catch the ball. Ebron can`t catch or block. Pettigrew can at least block.
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This was why I hated the pick of Ebron at #10 so much. He's a move TE that can't catch and they already had stone-hands Pettigrew. I still think the best case comparison for Ebron is Jared Cook or Jermichael Finley. A super inconsistent guy that will have an occasional big game and then disappear for several games at a time.

 
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Rotoworld:

Eric Ebron (illness) is questionable for Week 15 against the Saints.

Ebron should be ready for Monday night despite barely practicing this week. He's a solid TE1 streamer in a plus matchup. Ebron should see close to an every-down role with Brandon Pettigrew sidelined.

Dec 19 - 4:11 PM
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TwinTurbo said:
Da Guru said:
Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 high first rd TEs....and neither one can catch the ball. Ebron can`t catch or block. Pettigrew can at least block.
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This was why I hated the pick of Ebron at #10 so much. He's a move TE that can't catch and they already had stone-hands Pettigrew. I still think the best case comparison for Ebron is Jared Cook or Jermichael Finley. A super inconsistent guy that will have an occasional big game and then disappear for several games at a time.
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The best tight end of all-time:

Code: 
Year 	Age Tm 	G 	GS 	Tgt 	Rec 	Yds 	Y/R 	TD 	Lng 	R/G 	Y/G 	1997 	21  KAN 16 	0 	61 	33 	368 	11.2 	2 	30 	2.1 	23.0 								1998 	22  KAN 16 	16 	103 	59 	621 	10.5 	2 	32 	3.7 	38.8
 
Rotoworld:

Eric Ebron caught 5-of-7 targets for 25 yards and a touchdown in the Lions' Week 17 win over the Bears.

Ebron's second NFL season was ultimately rocky, but it was a huge step up from his dreadful rookie campaign by any measure. Ebron became a legitimate fantasy asset when Brandon Pettigrew missed time and gave Matthew Stafford an explosive-if-inconsistent fourth pass-game weapon to complement Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, and Theo Riddick. Ebron doesn't turn 23 until April. His final 2015 stat line is 47-537-5. So long as his ADP doesn't get out of control, Ebron will be a sneaky breakout candidate for 2016.

Jan 3 - 5:17 PM
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Typical UNC athlete of the last 25 years.

Poor character, lazy, talented, lazy, entitled, and lazy.

Did I mention lazy?

 
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cstu said:
cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:
Faust said:
Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:Gonzalez: Lions’ Ebron needs to change his routine
Click to expand...
Gonzo would know - 92/1009/4 his first two years in the league (Ebron is 72/785/6).
Click to expand...
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.

 
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Da Guru said:
cstu said:
cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:
Faust said:
Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:Gonzalez: Lions’ Ebron needs to change his routine
Click to expand...
Gonzo would know - 92/1009/4 his first two years in the league (Ebron is 72/785/6).
Click to expand...
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.
Click to expand...
He drop rate stunk again last year but he did produce in college and he did come down with a good percentage of his passes thrown last year. He's got big hands and makes some tough contested catches so see some ability, just needs to make more plays and less errors.

I'm less concerned with drops as I am with him showing he can get consistent separation and make plays, mainly make plays and it's all good. Eifert had a slighty worse drop rate than Ebron last year but no one cares because Eifert made plays.

As we know most TE's take jumps from year one to two and if they are getting playing time and if they don't if it's a major concern. He took the jump I needed to see, not a breakout but a jump. Considering how young he is, likely departure of 150 target staple, departure of Pettigrew,current #1 WR who put up 9 yards a catch and there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic.

Their is also a reason to tap the brakes. A lot of my appeal for fantasy purposes for Ebron coming in was Lombardi who I anticipated running the Saints TE heavy approach but his departure did not even seem to have the big negative impact that Mayhews firing had on his playing time. Mayhew took a lot of heat for passing on Odell for Ebron and makes me wonder to some degree if he was not putting pressure on coaching staff to play Ebron because when he got axed Ebron's snap count declined and Pettigrews went up. I'm sure a little of that had to do with OC change but either way it's the same OC and no Mayhew. And mere fact that last season people were saying he was a better play because Pettigrew was out and projecting his outcome to be better in 2016 because Pettigrew is not likely to be back is a negative to me, he should have passed him already.

My fear with him is if he does not make enough plays to counter the drops or pick up the blocking he's going to find himself playing second fiddle to more of a traditional blocking TE again and getting the limited snaps he was getting after Mayhew got chopped.

 
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.
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In their first two years Gonzo caught 59% of his targets and Ebron almost 62%.

 
cstu said:
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.
Click to expand...
In their first two years Gonzo caught 59% of his targets and Ebron almost 62%.
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So which side of an over/under of 11 TDs for Ebron would you take for his 3rd NFL season? That's the number Gonzo had.

 
matttyl said:
cstu said:
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.
Click to expand...
In their first two years Gonzo caught 59% of his targets and Ebron almost 62%.
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So which side of an over/under of 11 TDs for Ebron would you take for his 3rd NFL season? That's the number Gonzo had.
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Under, of course, but a line of 70/800/7 seems like a reasonable floor this year if Calvin retires.

 
menobrown said:
Da Guru said:
cstu said:
cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

Faust said:
Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:

Gonzalez: Lions Ebron needs to change his routine
Click to expand...
Gonzo would know - 92/1009/4 his first two years in the league (Ebron is 72/785/6).
Click to expand...
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.
Click to expand...
He drop rate stunk again last year but he did produce in college...
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I wouldn't call 8 TD's in three years "producing".

 
I wouldn't call 8 TD's in three years "producing".
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How many college TE's have caught over 100 passes and had over 15 YPR?

Greg Olsen only caught 6 TD's in 3 years.

 
spider321 said:
menobrown said:
Da Guru said:
cstu said:
cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:cstu, on 03 Feb 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

Faust said:
Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:Faust, on 02 Feb 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:

Gonzalez: Lions Ebron needs to change his routine
Click to expand...
Gonzo would know - 92/1009/4 his first two years in the league (Ebron is 72/785/6).
Click to expand...
The problem with Ebron is that he truly has bad hands. Ebron is fast and athletic but his hands are slow to react. Not sure you can coach that up. Lions are the only team in the NFL that has 2 first rd TEs...and both can`t catch the football.
Click to expand...
He drop rate stunk again last year but he did produce in college...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call 8 TD's in three years "producing".
Click to expand...
Sure, because catching passes and setting ACC single season yardage record for TE's is so easy anyone can do it.

 
cstu said:
I wouldn't call 8 TD's in three years "producing".
Click to expand...
How many college TE's have caught over 100 passes and had over 15 YPR?

Greg Olsen only caught 6 TD's in 3 years.
Click to expand...
Olsen was the starter for 2 years. He actually lined up on the line of scrimmage, and had to block.

Ebron was a big wide receiver who could only manage 8 TD's in three seasons on a team that featured him.

 
spider321 said:
cstu said:
I wouldn't call 8 TD's in three years "producing".
Click to expand...
How many college TE's have caught over 100 passes and had over 15 YPR?

Greg Olsen only caught 6 TD's in 3 years.
Click to expand...
Olsen was the starter for 2 years. He actually lined up on the line of scrimmage, and had to block.

Ebron was a big wide receiver who could only manage 8 TD's in three seasons on a team that featured him.
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Yep, all he could do was average over 15 yards a catch and set conference single season record before he was old enough to legally buy a drink but that low TD really reflects how unproductive he really was. It's like how in 2014 when Julio had over 1500 yards receiving and people probably though he was a stud or something but really 22 other WR's were more productive then he was because they scored more TD's. It's all about the TD's people.

 
I never claimed Ebron wasn't talented.

He is.

...but he's also lazy.

His talent isn't enough to dominate in the pros.

Maybe he'll listen to Gonzalez and change his ways, but I doubt it.

 
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