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krsone21

PDSL3 Discussion Thread

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4.08 Valence - Andrew Luck QB4 IND

2.08 Valence - Demarco Murray RB12 DAL

1.09 Valence - Demaryius Thomas WR3 DEN

5.09 Valence - Michael Floyd WR30 ARI

3.09 Valence - Vernon Davis TE6 SF

6.08 Valence - Tyler Eifert TE12 CIN

2 TEs in first 6 rounds? No flex...Stretch, no?

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4.08 Valence - Andrew Luck QB4 IND

2.08 Valence - Demarco Murray RB12 DAL

1.09 Valence - Demaryius Thomas WR3 DEN

5.09 Valence - Michael Floyd WR30 ARI

3.09 Valence - Vernon Davis TE6 SF

6.08 Valence - Tyler Eifert TE12 CIN

2 TEs in first 6 rounds? No flex...Stretch, no?

Especially when he only has one RB.

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4.08 Valence - Andrew Luck QB4 IND

2.08 Valence - Demarco Murray RB12 DAL

1.09 Valence - Demaryius Thomas WR3 DEN

5.09 Valence - Michael Floyd WR30 ARI

3.09 Valence - Vernon Davis TE6 SF

6.08 Valence - Tyler Eifert TE12 CIN

2 TEs in first 6 rounds? No flex...Stretch, no?

Especially when he only has one RB.

Strange move for sure. How many weeks do you not expect Davis to score for you?

And I hate to sound like I'm piling on, but I don't even think Eifert was the best TE left on the board there.

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4.08 Valence - Andrew Luck QB4 IND

2.08 Valence - Demarco Murray RB12 DAL

1.09 Valence - Demaryius Thomas WR3 DEN

5.09 Valence - Michael Floyd WR30 ARI

3.09 Valence - Vernon Davis TE6 SF

6.08 Valence - Tyler Eifert TE12 CIN

2 TEs in first 6 rounds? No flex...Stretch, no?

Especially when he only has one RB.

Strange move for sure. How many weeks do you not expect Davis to score for you?

And I hate to sound like I'm piling on, but I don't even think Eifert was the best TE left on the board there.

A.) You seriously overvalue RB2 in these things. It's been shown time and time again that RB2 is perhaps the least important spot to fill in these things. There were no RBs still available that I I wanted at that pick so I wasn't going to take a RB.

B.) Not ready to take a QB2

C.) tons of WRs left. what I could have drafted there for my WR3 isn't much different (to me) than what will be there at my next pick

D.) Feel free to pile on. Having won as many or more of these things (5 have won more, 11 have won as many) I feel I have a pretty good handle on what works and what doesn't.

Not taking a RB, WR or QB had me down to another TE. I like Eifert this year and he likely wouldn't have been there at my next pick. Already having Davis aboard allowed me to take a TE2 with higher upside (yes, I know there were "better" and "safer" TEs still on board, but I don't think their upside is quite as high). If you have owned VD before like I have you know there are weeks where he completely disappears. I wanted someone i thought had a chance to duplicate his elite production some weeks and have a chance at catching those during a VD down week. I'm happy with the pair. sorry if it screwed up your plans.

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Some of you guys take criticism way too personally.

Fixed.

I was getting shredded by Jeaton a few posts ago and didnt say anything, Sniffer handled his critique well a few others did too. :shrug:

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4.08 Valence - Andrew Luck QB4 IND

2.08 Valence - Demarco Murray RB12 DAL

1.09 Valence - Demaryius Thomas WR3 DEN

5.09 Valence - Michael Floyd WR30 ARI

3.09 Valence - Vernon Davis TE6 SF

6.08 Valence - Tyler Eifert TE12 CIN

2 TEs in first 6 rounds? No flex...Stretch, no?

Especially when he only has one RB.

Strange move for sure. How many weeks do you not expect Davis to score for you?

And I hate to sound like I'm piling on, but I don't even think Eifert was the best TE left on the board there.

A.) You seriously overvalue RB2 in these things. It's been shown time and time again that RB2 is perhaps the least important spot to fill in these things. There were no RBs still available that I I wanted at that pick so I wasn't going to take a RB.

B.) Not ready to take a QB2

C.) tons of WRs left. what I could have drafted there for my WR3 isn't much different (to me) than what will be there at my next pick

D.) Not taking a RB, WR or QB had me down to another TE. I like Eifert this year and he likely wouldn't have been there at my next pick. Already having Davis aboard allowed me to take a TE2 with higher upside (yes, I know there were "better" and "safer" TEs still on board, but I don't think their upside is quite as high). If you have owned VD before like I have you know there are weeks where he completely disappears. I wanted someone i thought had a chance to duplicate his elite production some weeks and have a chance at catching those during a VD down week. I'm happy with the pair. sorry if it screwed up your plans.

Didn't mess mine up. I'm glad to see someone take a second tight end that early creating the shortage in a position I'm strong at. Time will tell if it works out. I suppose it's not that different than someone doubling up at QB early. GL!

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5.01 Matthews Stafford QB6 DET

I figured I better grab a QB now because it is a long ways until my next pick. Stafford finished around QB5 last year and I got him at QB6 which is around where he should go as a QB. I had a couple of other QB's I was debating on which I won't name at this time because they are still on the board. I decided to go with Stafford though because the receiving core got better this year during free agency. So I figure he probably will once again end up somewhere in the top 6 for QB's.

1.01 LeSean McCoy RB1 PHI

2.16 Zac Stacy RB16 STL

I'm really happy with this RB group. I won't have to worry about a 3rd RB for a while concentrating on other positions for now. LeSean McCoy is amazing. Zac Stacy had a very good rookie season and I don't see why he can't be just as good if not better this season. A solid start with the RB position. I was actually planning on taking either Cameron Jordan or second WR here instead of Stacy but he seemed too good to pass up at the end of round 2.

3.01 Randall Cobb WR11 GB

6.16 Eric Decker WR33 NYJ

7.01 Marques Colston WR34 NO

Really happy with Cobb as my #1 WR. Last season before he got injured he was putting up top 10 ppg at the WR position. So here is to hoping he can stay healthy this season. I had hoped to have a second WR at this point but like I said I felt like Stacy was to good a value to pass up at the end of round 2 and I also felt like I needed to grab a QB and TE at the 4/5 turn because it was a loooooooooong ways until my next picks and I didn't want to take a chance on a QB and TE run. Plus WR is deep so I feel I can grab some nice WR's in the middle of the draft that will give me good depth.

***New Addition*** With the 6/7 turn I needed to add a couple of WR's since I only had 1 on my roster thus far. I was happy to have Decker and Colston still sitting there for me. Last season Decker finished around WR13 for ppg and I just got him at WR33. Now i realize he is going from Denver to the Jets which makes a big difference. That being said I don't see why Decker can't finish in the top 25 for WR's. Colston Finished around 27 for WR's in ppg last season and I just got him at WR34. Colston had a down year last season, his first season under 1,000 receiving yards in 5 seasons plus his TD numbers were down also. I don't think he is done yet and I think he can get around 1,000 yards receiving and 7 TD's this season. Which would put him in the top 25. Both will have huge scoring weeks which is nice for these survivor leagues. I will add more depth for those weeks where they have a down week.

4.16 Greg Olsen TE10 CAR

I was happy to land Greg Olsen at the end of the 4th round. The way TE's were going off the board I didn't think there would be any good TE's left to choose from. I almost took Jordan Cameron at the 2/3 turn but decided to wait hoping to land someone like Olsen, Reed, Pitta, or Rudolph. I was happy at least one of my TE targets made it back to me. With not much at WR in Carolina Olsen may have a uptick in targets this season. Maybe not a huge uptick but even a small uptick will put him in the top 7 or 8 in TE's.

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Not trying to get into a semantical argument but Owen Daniels is done to me as an effective 16 game a season player. Done as a fantasy asset except for a few games if Pitta got hurt. I do not believe if Pitta got hurt in week one Daniels would be able to produce for more than few game stretch.

He's obviously not completely done because he's still playing so not sure what you thought I meant. I think in 1-2 years he'll be completely done, as is he's just done as a starter or someone who can perform at a high level for an extended period of time or anything other than relieving the starter.

I'm not backpedaling on damn thing. He's a backup who can offer at best a stretch of a few games as an asset.

no worries....from the bolded above, you must be predicting an injury for him after a few games if put in that role....we should go to Vegas.... ;) ..who else you got..... :moneybag:

his production when healthy last year does not support being done as an NFL player......

I refuse to let the awesome Pitta conversation die! Lol.

I'm not predicting injuries so much as I don't think he can run very well anymore and he's lost athletisicm he could not afford to lose. As I've said numerous times and will continue to say his contract spoke volumes. You contend he took less to stay move to Baltimore and play with Kubiak, I see it as the only offer he could get.

I own Pitta in one league, a dynasty league. I can tell you I did not bat an eye when they signed Daniels. I'd add more to that part of the discussion but need to wait until later in the draft.

And I disagree that his production last year proved he is not done. He was actually less efficient than Dallas Clark, at least in the items that mean something to me. He trailed Clark in yards per pass route run, yards per reception and narrowly edged him in percentage of catch percentage. For the most part they both stunk and were in the bottom of almost every TE pass catching metric.

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You guys take criticism way too personally.

Personally I wish everyone did a little more critiquing (of themselves and others) in real time as opposed to waiting until after the draft ... it's waaaay too easy to have 20-20 hindsight when evaluating rosters after the fact, knowing that someone got in just ahead of a WR run, or that there'd be lots of value left on the board at RB after someone passed on taking their RB2, etc., etc.

Yeah, it's fun to win these things, but, to me at least, they're more valuable as research for the :moneybag: leagues we're all in. If I have a guy penciled in as 8th-round value and he goes in the 5th round in every WSL and PDSL, what's more likely - that 5 leagues full of people have the wrong opinion on him, or that I do? There's a lot of FF knowledge circulating in these leagues, and we should all be doing our best to take advantage of that resource.

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You guys take criticism way too personally.

Things have been a little edgy here but it's not all bad as long as we keep it respectful. With no real action for a long long time I enjoy hearing other people's opinions and while at times a little edgy the conversation in this discussion has been pretty lively and enjoyable.

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You guys take criticism way too personally.

Things have been a little edgy here but it's not all bad as long as we keep it respectful. With no real action for a long long time I enjoy hearing other people's opinions and while at times a little edgy the conversation in this discussion has been pretty lively and enjoyable.

Agree, this is sports, not all discussion is gonna be calm but if the attacks are not personal, whats the problem? Giving someone grief for a player they take is not bad, calling someone names for not agreeing with you is bad. This has all just been entertaining, no one likes a sports show where everyone agrees, why visit a site where everyone agrees?

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Not taken personally at all. I just think it's dumb to continue to call people out because they took a player maybe a round earlier than they might have gone anyway. The reason I do these things is the discussion and the elite competition not the flaming. pretty sure that's the same for most everyone.

Doing these in the off-season makes your 12 team $ leagues seem like a cakewalk. It's all good gents, just be excellent to each other.

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I have come to the conclusion on a board where the game is full of a bunch of men, this site is full of sensitivity, probably the most conservative sensitive board I visit. Like we all should be reading Better Homes and Garden and watching The View instead of the NFL.

Some people getting bent becuase theya re getting critiqued, like in the Kapernick thread I shared that I though Kaep is a thug and people are crying and creating World War 3 because I think that. Why the heck are people so uptight and sensitive and why do people get so upset at others opinions. Like Pitta for instance, someone gets into a debate and keeps talk alive and others get upset.

This is not church, its football. There is no one way to look at things.

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Re Sensitive Parts: I try to adjust my level to the recipients behavior...and respond to any offense caused with a sense of personal responsibility.

PS - Don't ever question me.

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Meno

I never said ANYTHING about him taking less money just to play in BAL or with kubiak and I really have no idea what those stats you use are ... I think I may have been able to hang with some of those stats playing nerf in the backyard with my daughter...Daniels was on a monsterly pace pre injury last year

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Meno

I never said ANYTHING about him taking less money just to play in BAL or with kubiak and I really have no idea what those stats you use are ... I think I may have been able to hang with some of those stats playing nerf in the backyard with my daughter...Daniels was on a monsterly pace pre injury last year

I meantioned he got a pretty meager contract which spoke volumes and you replied with something like he mighth have taken less to play with Kubiak-which again I don't buy.

Those stats I used are legit and taken directly from PFF. He was on a good pace for fantasy but due to high usage but that's fantasy and he's not getting high usage anymore.

Again, it's why all he could get is a one year cheap contract. If he was on a monsterly pace because he was acutally playing well would have been different.

One more thing speaking of "pace". Dallas Clark was on pace for 64 catches and 700 yards after 4 weeks on 30 targets. After 4 games with two more targets Owen Daniels was on pace for 72 catches and 768 yards. Not much difference but for fantasy purposes OD was doing a lot better because he scored 3 TD's. In week 5 Clark donuted and OD had his last game of the season so I they at that point OD seperated. In the end OD if you took OD's pace he would ended up with whopping 131 targets(about 30 more than his career high) for 76 catches and 800 yards. Good numbers but not really in the context of that many targers and not really monsterly either. Factor in the TD's and for fantasy he moved to upper ecelon but I'm not going to get carried away with extrapoliating TD's from a 5 game sample size especially when his career high is 6. Dallas Clark sat on exactly 41 targets after week 9 which at that point equaled the amount of targets OD got all season.

So after 41 targets this how their stat lines looked:

OD- 24 catches, 252 yards, 3 TD's

Clark- 24 catches, 279 yards, 2 TD's

Again not seeing this monsterly pace you speak of other than OD just got an abnormally heavy usage the first 5 weeks and got 3 TD's which made him a solid fantasy player which has little to do with how good or efficecient he was as a real NFL football players.

Earlier I mentioned if Pitta went down OD could give you a few solid games and you countered by saying I was backtracking. As I said I was not, Dallas Clark also provided some solid games to start the season when Pitta was out and he looked so terrible to me last season I really thought in the opener we might see the first NFL player retire at halftime.

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Peyton

Spiller

Ellington

Chris Johnson

Wes Welker

Marty Bennet

Heath Miller

Was dubious how things would unfold for me after going QB in round one. Figured the main challenge would be trying to find quality RB's and a WR1 type perfomer. Was not sure I could do both and if I did figured TE would suffer. So far I like how it turned out. Welker is an injury concern and my only WR so far so there is work to do there but he's also a guy who if I recall correctly was the #1 fantasy WR around the midpoint of the season before getting hurt. I'm very happy with the RB's so far but will know better when CJ signs but I think wherever he goes he's going to have value. For the way TE's were going early in this league and not picking my first one until the 6th round I feel like I came out better than I thought I would.

I was loooking at this from the angle of had I not taken PM in round one and took Forte. If I had done that I don't think it would have changed picks 2-4 for me but I'd have gone with RG3 in the 5th over CJ. Love RG3's potential this season. So I asked myself would I rather have Forte/RG3 or PM/CJ? I believe if RG3 is 90% as healthy as he was his rookie season the RG3/Forte combo will outdo PM/CJ on a per game basis but the PM/CJ side is considerably more durable with two guys who almost never miss a game. Durablity a big thing to me in these early drafts so right now I'd rather be on the PM/CJ side,but will concede that might change when I know exactly where CJ is playing.

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While others may not like it, I love the turn into the 8th McFadden and Austin this late is pretty good.

McFadden has talent only if he can stay healthy, MJD dont bother me as he is more broken down, and Austin is so undervalued its almost disgusting.

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5.15 Newton QB

1.15 AJ Green WR

4.2 Andre Johnson WR

3.15 Vereen RB

6.2 Joique Bell RB

2.2 Gronk

Like the draft so far. Green and Gronk fell farther than the other 2 PDSLs. Got Johnson and Vereen 1/2 round after WSL ADP so seems like value. Joique Bell should see more prominent role but even if he doesn't he's a top 20 back.

Newton not the safest pick but if full recovery should be top 6 QB.

I'll take the start.

Newton is fantastic value at QB10. I'm not too worried about his WR corps as I don't see any way the Panthers go into training camp with their current collection of warm bodies. Likewise Andre Johnson at 4.02 - I darn near took him at 3.02 in my league and I think he'd have been solid value there.

This is the team to beat through 6 rounds

I won't say team to beat, but I'd probably swap squads with Jeaton at this point. Only thing I would've done differently is grab Gronk at 1.15 and take whoever was left at 2.02.

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6.13 Colin Kaepernick

7.04 Alex Smith

Safe, but not going to help win immunity often. I would have preferred Bradford at QB2, but my sense is that teams in the same division are more likely to share bye weeks.

2.13 Reggie Bush

I've got my RB2. Just need to cobble together RB1 production and I'll be set.

3.04 Percy Harvin

4.13 Roddy White

5.04 Kendall Wright

Percy was risky, but Roddy is a safe bet for top 20 numbers and a value this late. Should've gone Floyd over Wright based on upside, but if he can score 5 TDs this year I'll be happy with the pick.

1.04 Jimmy Graham

Don't hold out, please.

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QB - Drew Brees

RB - Toby Gerhart, Frank Gore, Darren Sproles

WR - Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson, Jeremy Maclin

TE - Charles Clay

Nice, but not as good as---

QB- Tony Romo

RB- Doug Martin, Stevan Ridley, Darren McFadden

WR- Julio Jones, Pierre Garcon, Tavon Austin

TE- Jason Witten

;)

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QB - Drew Brees

RB - Toby Gerhart, Frank Gore, Darren Sproles

WR - Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson, Jeremy Maclin

TE - Charles Clay

Nice, but not as good as---

QB- Tony Romo

RB- Doug Martin, Stevan Ridley, Darren McFadden

WR- Julio Jones, Pierre Garcon, Tavon Austin

TE- Jason Witten

;)

interesting comparision

Brees>>Romo

Ill give you Martin over Toby, Gore>Ridley. and Im betting Philly throws it to Sproles a Bunch. McFaddens a bum you took the wrong Oakland guy

Julio = Dez??? how's the foot??, Garcon slides big time with DeSean in town, heck I think you ranted an raved in the shark pool about that exact thing, Gimme Vjax in that one. I liked TAustin, maclin is the defacto #1 in Philly with DeSean gone

Ill give you WItten over Clay, but they were within 22 points last year, so its not like your killing me at the spot, Down year for WItten for sure but hes a lot older and Dallas has more wea[pons in the passing game than Miami.

One big weakness for you will be your QB1 and TE1 on the same bye. and you have no depth yet at either spot (neither do I) but you have a guaranteed zero from both in say week7

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QB - Drew Brees

RB - Toby Gerhart, Frank Gore, Darren Sproles

WR - Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson, Jeremy Maclin

TE - Charles Clay

Nice, but not as good as---

QB- Tony Romo

RB- Doug Martin, Stevan Ridley, Darren McFadden

WR- Julio Jones, Pierre Garcon, Tavon Austin

TE- Jason Witten

;)

interesting comparision

Brees>>Romo

Ill give you Martin over Toby, Gore>Ridley. and Im betting Philly throws it to Sproles a Bunch. McFaddens a bum you took the wrong Oakland guy

Julio = Dez??? how's the foot??, Garcon slides big time with DeSean in town, heck I think you ranted an raved in the shark pool about that exact thing, Gimme Vjax in that one. I liked TAustin, maclin is the defacto #1 in Philly with DeSean gone

Ill give you WItten over Clay, but they were within 22 points last year, so its not like your killing me at the spot, Down year for WItten for sure but hes a lot older and Dallas has more wea[pons in the passing game than Miami.

One big weakness for you will be your QB1 and TE1 on the same bye. and you have no depth yet at either spot (neither do I) but you have a guaranteed zero from both in say week7

Brees over Romo is a no brainer, but not by as much as say if my #1 QB was Wilson or Kaep.

How can you be so sure Gore over Ridley, the Ridley hate is strong this time of year, that will pass when people realizes he will go back to 2012 form. Wrong Oakland guy? Stop, MJD is more broken that DMC and thats hard to do.

Julio and Dez are same player, Garcon and VJax, even with DJax in town Garcon will do better than VJax. Who is VJax QB again? Austin and Maclin? I'll take the guy not coming off ACL surgery.

You will give me Witten? I dont need you to give me that one, it is clear as day that Witten is the better TE with a better chance of being productive and I'm higher on Clay than most.

For picking late we both have some better teams then some of the early drafters.

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While others may not like it, I love the turn into the 8th McFadden and Austin this late is pretty good.

McFadden has talent only if he can stay healthy, MJD dont bother me as he is more broken down, and Austin is so undervalued its almost disgusting.

Love Austin there . DMC , meh.

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QB - Drew Brees

RB - Toby Gerhart, Frank Gore, Darren Sproles

WR - Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson, Jeremy Maclin

TE - Charles Clay

Nice, but not as good as---

QB- Tony Romo

RB- Doug Martin, Stevan Ridley, Darren McFadden

WR- Julio Jones, Pierre Garcon, Tavon Austin

TE- Jason Witten

;)

interesting comparision

Brees>>Romo

Ill give you Martin over Toby, Gore>Ridley. and Im betting Philly throws it to Sproles a Bunch. McFaddens a bum you took the wrong Oakland guy

Julio = Dez??? how's the foot??, Garcon slides big time with DeSean in town, heck I think you ranted an raved in the shark pool about that exact thing, Gimme Vjax in that one. I liked TAustin, maclin is the defacto #1 in Philly with DeSean gone

Ill give you WItten over Clay, but they were within 22 points last year, so its not like your killing me at the spot, Down year for WItten for sure but hes a lot older and Dallas has more wea[pons in the passing game than Miami.

One big weakness for you will be your QB1 and TE1 on the same bye. and you have no depth yet at either spot (neither do I) but you have a guaranteed zero from both in say week7

Brees over Romo is a no brainer, but not by as much as say if my #1 QB was Wilson or Kaep.

How can you be so sure Gore over Ridley, the Ridley hate is strong this time of year, that will pass when people realizes he will go back to 2012 form. Wrong Oakland guy? Stop, MJD is more broken that DMC and thats hard to do.

Julio and Dez are same player, Garcon and VJax, even with DJax in town Garcon will do better than VJax. Who is VJax QB again? Austin and Maclin? I'll take the guy not coming off ACL surgery.

You will give me Witten? I dont need you to give me that one, it is clear as day that Witten is the better TE with a better chance of being productive and I'm higher on Clay than most.

For picking late we both have some better teams then some of the early drafters.

So DeSean is a Redskin, and Garcon was pulling to get him aboard.

Anyone have thoughts on Garcon's production this year?

How can anyone think Garcons production gets better when they got a guy who will demand a certain amount of targets himself in DeSean? Garcon reached his peak year last year. Thinking more weapons helps Garcon is just wrong as that means more to take away from Garcon. The reason Garcon got all the targets was who else was going to get them? Reed, blah blah, lots of teams have TEs, but a 2nd WR who is a play maker is damning to his value WR2 at best for Garcon. Just how it is, sorry Garcon fans but his highest point of value came and went.

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QB - Drew Brees

RB - Toby Gerhart, Frank Gore, Darren Sproles

WR - Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson, Jeremy Maclin

TE - Charles Clay

Nice, but not as good as---

QB- Tony Romo

RB- Doug Martin, Stevan Ridley, Darren McFadden

WR- Julio Jones, Pierre Garcon, Tavon Austin

TE- Jason Witten

;)

interesting comparision

Brees>>Romo

Ill give you Martin over Toby, Gore>Ridley. and Im betting Philly throws it to Sproles a Bunch. McFaddens a bum you took the wrong Oakland guy

Julio = Dez??? how's the foot??, Garcon slides big time with DeSean in town, heck I think you ranted an raved in the shark pool about that exact thing, Gimme Vjax in that one. I liked TAustin, maclin is the defacto #1 in Philly with DeSean gone

Ill give you WItten over Clay, but they were within 22 points last year, so its not like your killing me at the spot, Down year for WItten for sure but hes a lot older and Dallas has more wea[pons in the passing game than Miami.

One big weakness for you will be your QB1 and TE1 on the same bye. and you have no depth yet at either spot (neither do I) but you have a guaranteed zero from both in say week7

Brees over Romo is a no brainer, but not by as much as say if my #1 QB was Wilson or Kaep.

How can you be so sure Gore over Ridley, the Ridley hate is strong this time of year, that will pass when people realizes he will go back to 2012 form. Wrong Oakland guy? Stop, MJD is more broken that DMC and thats hard to do.

Julio and Dez are same player, Garcon and VJax, even with DJax in town Garcon will do better than VJax. Who is VJax QB again? Austin and Maclin? I'll take the guy not coming off ACL surgery.

You will give me Witten? I dont need you to give me that one, it is clear as day that Witten is the better TE with a better chance of being productive and I'm higher on Clay than most.

For picking late we both have some better teams then some of the early drafters.

So DeSean is a Redskin, and Garcon was pulling to get him aboard.

Anyone have thoughts on Garcon's production this year?

How can anyone think Garcons production gets better when they got a guy who will demand a certain amount of targets himself in DeSean? Garcon reached his peak year last year. Thinking more weapons helps Garcon is just wrong as that means more to take away from Garcon. The reason Garcon got all the targets was who else was going to get them? Reed, blah blah, lots of teams have TEs, but a 2nd WR who is a play maker is damning to his value WR2 at best for Garcon. Just how it is, sorry Garcon fans but his highest point of value came and went.

I stand by what I said, he will never have higher value then after this past season and DJax hurts his value but now quote the production I said he would get this year and also tell me where I drafted Garcon at? I do not think he will have as good as season last year and saying he will decrease in some value does not mean he wont be better than VJax. Context is important.

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False start u cray for passing on qb2 for McFadden

QBs left are all scrubs, plus while McFadden is always hurt he has talent. Still some upside if he can stay healthy.

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While others may not like it, I love the turn into the 8th McFadden and Austin this late is pretty good.

McFadden has talent only if he can stay healthy, MJD dont bother me as he is more broken down, and Austin is so undervalued its almost disgusting.

Love Austin there . DMC , meh.

And I see it the other way around. DMC will control his own destiny, meaning he'll get his touches as long as he can stay healthy.

Austin was not a bad pick I just did not see the great value relative to WR's left and those picked around him. As an example I thought Sanders who sent right before Austin was extremely good value. Shorts who sent after Austin is a guy I'd rather have as well.

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While others may not like it, I love the turn into the 8th McFadden and Austin this late is pretty good.

McFadden has talent only if he can stay healthy, MJD dont bother me as he is more broken down, and Austin is so undervalued its almost disgusting.

Love Austin there . DMC , meh.

And I see it the other way around. DMC will control his own destiny, meaning he'll get his touches as long as he can stay healthy.

Austin was not a bad pick I just did not see the great value relative to WR's left and those picked around him. As an example I thought Sanders who sent right before Austin was extremely good value. Shorts who sent after Austin is a guy I'd rather have as well.

You rather have Shorts than Austin? You know Austin had comparable stats to that of Patterson last year, right? Like I said the fact he is so undervalued is crazy.

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While others may not like it, I love the turn into the 8th McFadden and Austin this late is pretty good.

McFadden has talent only if he can stay healthy, MJD dont bother me as he is more broken down, and Austin is so undervalued its almost disgusting.

Love Austin there . DMC , meh.

And I see it the other way around. DMC will control his own destiny, meaning he'll get his touches as long as he can stay healthy.

Austin was not a bad pick I just did not see the great value relative to WR's left and those picked around him. As an example I thought Sanders who sent right before Austin was extremely good value. Shorts who sent after Austin is a guy I'd rather have as well.

You rather have Shorts than Austin? You know Austin had comparable stats to that of Patterson last year, right? Like I said the fact he is so undervalued is crazy.

Yes that's why I said it. Shorts was just hampered last season by Gabbert for a bit and then his groin. He's a much better receiver than people give him credit for and I think he'll be a heavily targetted and far more consistent player than Austin.

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While others may not like it, I love the turn into the 8th McFadden and Austin this late is pretty good.

McFadden has talent only if he can stay healthy, MJD dont bother me as he is more broken down, and Austin is so undervalued its almost disgusting.

Love Austin there . DMC , meh.

And I see it the other way around. DMC will control his own destiny, meaning he'll get his touches as long as he can stay healthy.

Austin was not a bad pick I just did not see the great value relative to WR's left and those picked around him. As an example I thought Sanders who sent right before Austin was extremely good value. Shorts who sent after Austin is a guy I'd rather have as well.

You rather have Shorts than Austin? You know Austin had comparable stats to that of Patterson last year, right? Like I said the fact he is so undervalued is crazy.

Until the Rams' coaching staff gets some sort of epiphany about how to use Austin in the passing game, I'd rather have Shorts as well. I'm not holding my breath on that.

But then again I think Shorts is massively undervalued in general. People are acting as though Blackmon's not only guaranteed to be on the field for the Jags week 1, but is going to pick up right where he left off. I think both of those propositions are dicey at best and Shorts will wind up being the #1 option there by default.

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6.13 Colin Kaepernick

7.04 Alex Smith

Safe, but not going to help win immunity often. I would have preferred Bradford at QB2, but my sense is that teams in the same division are more likely to share bye weeks. 2.13 Reggie Bush

I've got my RB2. Just need to cobble together RB1 production and I'll be set. 3.04 Percy Harvin

4.13 Roddy White

5.04 Kendall Wright

Percy was risky, but Roddy is a safe bet for top 20 numbers and a value this late. Should've gone Floyd over Wright based on upside, but if he can score 5 TDs this year I'll be happy with the pick. 1.04 Jimmy Graham

Don't hold out, please.

fwiw I think smith over bradford was the way to go

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Meno

I never said ANYTHING about him taking less money just to play in BAL or with kubiak and I really have no idea what those stats you use are ... I think I may have been able to hang with some of those stats playing nerf in the backyard with my daughter...Daniels was on a monsterly pace pre injury last year

I meantioned he got a pretty meager contract which spoke volumes and you replied with something like he mighth have taken less to play with Kubiak-which again I don't buy.

Those stats I used are legit and taken directly from PFF. He was on a good pace for fantasy but due to high usage but that's fantasy and he's not getting high usage anymore.

Again, it's why all he could get is a one year cheap contract. If he was on a monsterly pace because he was acutally playing well would have been different.

One more thing speaking of "pace". Dallas Clark was on pace for 64 catches and 700 yards after 4 weeks on 30 targets. After 4 games with two more targets Owen Daniels was on pace for 72 catches and 768 yards. Not much difference but for fantasy purposes OD was doing a lot better because he scored 3 TD's. In week 5 Clark donuted and OD had his last game of the season so I they at that point OD seperated. In the end OD if you took OD's pace he would ended up with whopping 131 targets(about 30 more than his career high) for 76 catches and 800 yards. Good numbers but not really in the context of that many targers and not really monsterly either. Factor in the TD's and for fantasy he moved to upper ecelon but I'm not going to get carried away with extrapoliating TD's from a 5 game sample size especially when his career high is 6. Dallas Clark sat on exactly 41 targets after week 9 which at that point equaled the amount of targets OD got all season.

So after 41 targets this how their stat lines looked:

OD- 24 catches, 252 yards, 3 TD's

Clark- 24 catches, 279 yards, 2 TD's

Again not seeing this monsterly pace you speak of other than OD just got an abnormally heavy usage the first 5 weeks and got 3 TD's which made him a solid fantasy player which has little to do with how good or efficecient he was as a real NFL football players.

Earlier I mentioned if Pitta went down OD could give you a few solid games and you countered by saying I was backtracking. As I said I was not, Dallas Clark also provided some solid games to start the season when Pitta was out and he looked so terrible to me last season I really thought in the opener we might see the first NFL player retire at halftime.

1. you may want to reread the posts in this thread....I never said anything about taking less money to play for Kubiak

2. i really don't understand much of the rest of your post....you seem to admit that Daniels was on a great pace for fantasy (which is all we care about)....but then say he wasn't playing well....?....if you project out his stats....including the TD's which you want to exclude to help your argument....even you admit he would have been upper echelon....you and I must use different criteria for playing well....because OD's stats prior to the injury indicate playing well for me.....he was playing VERY well

3. you said OD was close to being done as an NFL player.....I said his production when healthy indicated otherwise....you actually kept agreeing with me saying he was putting up good/great numbers....not sure what the argument is here

4. you did back pedal and you still are....I understand you feel OD is done and not a threat to Pitta...I just think his stats last year pre injury indicate otherwise.....as I mentioned I have no idea whats in store for him in BAL and he very well may ride off quietly into the sunset....or he may not....I really don't know....I just thought your initial comments and supporting comments are flawed....good luck

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Meno

I never said ANYTHING about him taking less money just to play in BAL or with kubiak and I really have no idea what those stats you use are ... I think I may have been able to hang with some of those stats playing nerf in the backyard with my daughter...Daniels was on a monsterly pace pre injury last year

I meantioned he got a pretty meager contract which spoke volumes and you replied with something like he mighth have taken less to play with Kubiak-which again I don't buy.

Those stats I used are legit and taken directly from PFF. He was on a good pace for fantasy but due to high usage but that's fantasy and he's not getting high usage anymore.

Again, it's why all he could get is a one year cheap contract. If he was on a monsterly pace because he was acutally playing well would have been different.

One more thing speaking of "pace". Dallas Clark was on pace for 64 catches and 700 yards after 4 weeks on 30 targets. After 4 games with two more targets Owen Daniels was on pace for 72 catches and 768 yards. Not much difference but for fantasy purposes OD was doing a lot better because he scored 3 TD's. In week 5 Clark donuted and OD had his last game of the season so I they at that point OD seperated. In the end OD if you took OD's pace he would ended up with whopping 131 targets(about 30 more than his career high) for 76 catches and 800 yards. Good numbers but not really in the context of that many targers and not really monsterly either. Factor in the TD's and for fantasy he moved to upper ecelon but I'm not going to get carried away with extrapoliating TD's from a 5 game sample size especially when his career high is 6. Dallas Clark sat on exactly 41 targets after week 9 which at that point equaled the amount of targets OD got all season.

So after 41 targets this how their stat lines looked:

OD- 24 catches, 252 yards, 3 TD's

Clark- 24 catches, 279 yards, 2 TD's

Again not seeing this monsterly pace you speak of other than OD just got an abnormally heavy usage the first 5 weeks and got 3 TD's which made him a solid fantasy player which has little to do with how good or efficecient he was as a real NFL football players.

Earlier I mentioned if Pitta went down OD could give you a few solid games and you countered by saying I was backtracking. As I said I was not, Dallas Clark also provided some solid games to start the season when Pitta was out and he looked so terrible to me last season I really thought in the opener we might see the first NFL player retire at halftime.

1. you may want to reread the posts in this thread....I never said anything about taking less money to play for Kubiak

2. i really don't understand much of the rest of your post....you seem to admit that Daniels was on a great pace for fantasy (which is all we care about)....but then say he wasn't playing well....?....if you project out his stats....including the TD's which you want to exclude to help your argument....even you admit he would have been upper echelon....you and I must use different criteria for playing well....because OD's stats prior to the injury indicate playing well for me.....he was playing VERY well

3. you said OD was close to being done as an NFL player.....I said his production when healthy indicated otherwise....you actually kept agreeing with me saying he was putting up good/great numbers....not sure what the argument is here

4. you did back pedal and you still are....I understand you feel OD is done and not a threat to Pitta...I just think his stats last year pre injury indicate otherwise.....as I mentioned I have no idea whats in store for him in BAL and he very well may ride off quietly into the sunset....or he may not....I really don't know....I just thought your initial comments and supporting comments are flawed....good luck

I don't have anything I can keep adding except to say you don't appear to draw a distinction between playing well and putting up stats. Good luck with that.

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5.01 Matthew Stafford QB6 DET

9.01 Jake Locker QB26 TEN

I figured I better grab a QB now because it is a long ways until my next pick. Stafford finished around QB5 last year and I got him at QB6 which is around where he should go as a QB. I had a couple of other QB's I was debating on which I won't name at this time because they are still on the board. I decided to go with Stafford though because the receiving core got better this year during free agency. So I figure he probably will once again end up somewhere in the top 6 for QB's.

***New Info*** With pick 9.01 I decided to go QB. Not much left to choose from at the QB position. Locker seemed as good as any that were left. Also, unless the Titans draft another QB he won't have much cometition this season with his backup being Charlie "Checkdown" Whitehurst. If he can stay healthy all season long that will make me happy. With Matthew Stafford I shouldn't need a lot of scoring from my backup QB anyway except for during Staffords bye week.

1.01 LeSean McCoy RB1 PHI

2.16 Zac Stacy RB16 STL

I'm really happy with this RB group. I won't have to worry about a 3rd RB for a while concentrating on other positions for now. LeSean McCoy is amazing. Zac Stacy had a very good rookie season and I don't see why he can't be just as good if not better this season. A solid start with the RB position. I was actually planning on taking either Cameron Jordan or second WR here instead of Stacy but he seemed too good to pass up at the end of round 2.

3.01 Randall Cobb WR11 GB

6.16 Eric Decker WR33 NYJ

7.01 Marques Colston WR34 NO

Really happy with Cobb as my #1 WR. Last season before he got injured he was putting up top 10 ppg at the WR position. So here is to hoping he can stay healthy this season. I had hoped to have a second WR at this point but like I said I felt like Stacy was to good a value to pass up at the end of round 2 and I also felt like I needed to grab a QB and TE at the 4/5 turn because it was a loooooooooong ways until my next picks and I didn't want to take a chance on a QB and TE run. Plus WR is deep so I feel I can grab some nice WR's in the middle of the draft that will give me good depth. With the 6/7 turn I needed to add a couple of WR's since I only had 1 on my roster thus far. I was happy to have Decker and Colston still sitting there for me. Last season Decker finished around WR13 for ppg and I just got him at WR33. Now i realize he is going from Denver to the Jets which makes a big difference. That being said I don't see why Decker can't finish in the top 25 for WR's. Colston Finished around 27 for WR's in ppg last season and I just got him at WR34. Colston had a down year last season, his first season under 1,000 receiving yards in 5 seasons plus his TD numbers were down also. I don't think he is done yet and I think he can get around 1,000 yards receiving and 7 TD's this season. Which would put him in the top 25. Both will have huge scoring weeks which is nice for these survivor leagues. I will add more depth for those weeks where they have a down week.

4.16 Greg Olsen TE10 CAR

8.16 Delanie Walker TE23 TEN

I was happy to land Greg Olsen at the end of the 4th round. The way TE's were going off the board I didn't think there would be any good TE's left to choose from. I almost took Jordan Cameron at the 2/3 turn but decided to wait hoping to land someone like Olsen, Reed, Pitta, or Rudolph. I was happy at least one of my TE targets made it back to me. With not much at WR in Carolina Olsen may have a uptick in targets this season. Maybe not a huge uptick but even a small uptick will put him in the top 7 or 8 in TE's.

***New Info*** I'm very happy to land Delanie Walker as my backup TE. He finished around TE15 last season and I got him at TE23 in this draft. He had a few huge scoring weeks last season.

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Meno

I never said ANYTHING about him taking less money just to play in BAL or with kubiak and I really have no idea what those stats you use are ... I think I may have been able to hang with some of those stats playing nerf in the backyard with my daughter...Daniels was on a monsterly pace pre injury last year

I meantioned he got a pretty meager contract which spoke volumes and you replied with something like he mighth have taken less to play with Kubiak-which again I don't buy.

Those stats I used are legit and taken directly from PFF. He was on a good pace for fantasy but due to high usage but that's fantasy and he's not getting high usage anymore.

Again, it's why all he could get is a one year cheap contract. If he was on a monsterly pace because he was acutally playing well would have been different.

One more thing speaking of "pace". Dallas Clark was on pace for 64 catches and 700 yards after 4 weeks on 30 targets. After 4 games with two more targets Owen Daniels was on pace for 72 catches and 768 yards. Not much difference but for fantasy purposes OD was doing a lot better because he scored 3 TD's. In week 5 Clark donuted and OD had his last game of the season so I they at that point OD seperated. In the end OD if you took OD's pace he would ended up with whopping 131 targets(about 30 more than his career high) for 76 catches and 800 yards. Good numbers but not really in the context of that many targers and not really monsterly either. Factor in the TD's and for fantasy he moved to upper ecelon but I'm not going to get carried away with extrapoliating TD's from a 5 game sample size especially when his career high is 6. Dallas Clark sat on exactly 41 targets after week 9 which at that point equaled the amount of targets OD got all season.

So after 41 targets this how their stat lines looked:

OD- 24 catches, 252 yards, 3 TD's

Clark- 24 catches, 279 yards, 2 TD's

Again not seeing this monsterly pace you speak of other than OD just got an abnormally heavy usage the first 5 weeks and got 3 TD's which made him a solid fantasy player which has little to do with how good or efficecient he was as a real NFL football players.

Earlier I mentioned if Pitta went down OD could give you a few solid games and you countered by saying I was backtracking. As I said I was not, Dallas Clark also provided some solid games to start the season when Pitta was out and he looked so terrible to me last season I really thought in the opener we might see the first NFL player retire at halftime.

1. you may want to reread the posts in this thread....I never said anything about taking less money to play for Kubiak

2. i really don't understand much of the rest of your post....you seem to admit that Daniels was on a great pace for fantasy (which is all we care about)....but then say he wasn't playing well....?....if you project out his stats....including the TD's which you want to exclude to help your argument....even you admit he would have been upper echelon....you and I must use different criteria for playing well....because OD's stats prior to the injury indicate playing well for me.....he was playing VERY well

3. you said OD was close to being done as an NFL player.....I said his production when healthy indicated otherwise....you actually kept agreeing with me saying he was putting up good/great numbers....not sure what the argument is here

4. you did back pedal and you still are....I understand you feel OD is done and not a threat to Pitta...I just think his stats last year pre injury indicate otherwise.....as I mentioned I have no idea whats in store for him in BAL and he very well may ride off quietly into the sunset....or he may not....I really don't know....I just thought your initial comments and supporting comments are flawed....good luck

I don't have anything I can keep adding except to say you don't appear to draw a distinction between playing well and putting up stats. Good luck with that.

thanks....been working fairly well for me so far in these.....how did you win all yours?

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6.15 Ryan Tannehill, QB, MIA

7.2 Carson Palmer, QB, ARI

Tannehill should at least be a solid baseline QB even if he doesn't take a step forward, and I'm actually kinda bullish on Palmer with a real left tackle in Veldheer. Nothing thrilling here, just trying to hold the line against elite QB scoring and occasionally land a punch with top 5-6 week from one of this duo

1.2 Jamaal Charles, RB, KC

9.2 Fred Jackson, RB, BUF

Charles and a shotgun approach at RB2. Im comfortable punting RB2 because of quickly diminishing value early in the draft at the position compared to WR/TE. With the rate of injuries at the position and cheap points via PPR, I'll take my chances. Have to be weak somewhere in a 16 teamer.

2.11 Jordy Nelson, WR, GB

4.11 Torrey Smith, WR, BAL

5.2 Mike Wallace, WR, MIA

8.11 Dwayne Bowe, WR, KC

The heart of my team. Nelson is just off the elite as long as he and Rodgers are on the field. Smith and Wallace I view through the lens of top 10 weeks via the long TD. Smith was on pace for over 1750 yds through the first 5 games before the offense fell apart and now he won't be the focus of defenses. Wallace got open deep a lot more than his stats suggest and if Tannehill improves just a little on downfield accuracy, he'll come on. Wallace's five biggest weeks of the year were all 300 yd game for Tannehill, so I'll be tough to knock out when that happens this year. I'll count on my depth to cover Smith/Wallace down weeks via Bowe who was looking more like his old self as the season went on. I think he represents tremendous value here as a clear #1 receiver who was consistently an 8-10 pt/week WR even when he and the pass offense were abysmal. I hope to be able to get 50+ pts from this group in most weeks.

3.2 Jordan Cameron, TE, CLE

Small sample size, but he was massive with Hoyer, with 4 scores and 16 catches in two full games. Cameron was still pretty solid otherwise with sometimes terrible QB play, and I'm happy to take him here in this TE heavy format.

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6.15 Ryan Tannehill, QB, MIA

7.2 Carson Palmer, QB, ARI

Tannehill should at least be a solid baseline QB even if he doesn't take a step forward, and I'm actually kinda bullish on Palmer with a real left tackle in Veldheer. Nothing thrilling here, just trying to hold the line against elite QB scoring and occasionally land a punch with top 5-6 week from one of this duo

1.2 Jamaal Charles, RB, KC

9.2 Fred Jackson, RB, BUF

Charles and a shotgun approach at RB2. Im comfortable punting RB2 because of quickly diminishing value early in the draft at the position compared to WR/TE. With the rate of injuries at the position and cheap points via PPR, I'll take my chances. Have to be weak somewhere in a 16 teamer.

2.11 Jordy Nelson, WR, GB

4.11 Torrey Smith, WR, BAL

5.2 Mike Wallace, WR, MIA

8.11 Dwayne Bowe, WR, KC

The heart of my team. Nelson is just off the elite as long as he and Rodgers are on the field. Smith and Wallace I view through the lens of top 10 weeks via the long TD. Smith was on pace for over 1750 yds through the first 5 games before the offense fell apart and now he won't be the focus of defenses. Wallace got open deep a lot more than his stats suggest and if Tannehill improves just a little on downfield accuracy, he'll come on. Wallace's five biggest weeks of the year were all 300 yd game for Tannehill, so I'll be tough to knock out when that happens this year. I'll count on my depth to cover Smith/Wallace down weeks via Bowe who was looking more like his old self as the season went on. I think he represents tremendous value here as a clear #1 receiver who was consistently an 8-10 pt/week WR even when he and the pass offense were abysmal. I hope to be able to get 50+ pts from this group in most weeks.

3.2 Jordan Cameron, TE, CLE

Small sample size, but he was massive with Hoyer, with 4 scores and 16 catches in two full games. Cameron was still pretty solid otherwise with sometimes terrible QB play, and I'm happy to take him here in this TE heavy format.

Very strong if QB works out. I was hoping to land FJax as part of my RB2BC

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6.09 Andy Dalton, QB CIN

9.08 Michael Vick, QB NYJ

An uninspiring pairing, but Dalton should be able to continue to exploit some of the talent he has at the skill positions even with his deficiencies. Who knows with Vick, I am hoping to get 6-7 weeks of top 10 scoring, but he could also end up not playing at all. Not who I envisioned getting as my QB2, but we will shoot for the stars and hope for the best.

3.08 Ryan Matthews, RB SDC

4.09 Steven Jackson, RB ATL

Another uninspiring group. Both can outperform their draft positions, but they both could play 2 healthy games this year with 2 more game time decisions then be in street clothes for the rest of the season. Will need to hit on a couple other lottery tickets at RB to make this a productive group.

1.08 Josh Gordon, WR CLE

5.08 Reggie Wayne, WR IND

8.09 Mike Evans, WR Rookie

Well I got a guy that could end up WR1 as long as he stays out of the commissioner office. I expect Wayne to bounce back from injury and be a productive WR2 teaming with Luck and Hilton. I like Evans chances of being a contributor somewhere in the NFL as a rookie. Need to find some depth here and try to hit on a couple players through last half.

2.09 Julius Thomas, TE DEN

7.08 Travis Kelce, TE KCC

This could be the star group of my team with a top 3 TE and a young guy that could catch 70 balls in Kansas City.

Overall, I really dislike this team. There are so many question marks with this team. It could really go down the drain quickly. If things are positive then it could be a contender to stick around a while. We will see what the 2nd half of the draft brings and see if we can make this a more well rounded team.

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Romo - Solid QB1, but if he goes down I will not stand a chance, so back up to me is needed for one to two weeks. He will thrive in Linehans offense.

Martin, Ridley, DMC, MJD - Each one of these runners has the opportunity to go off any given week. Martin is a hoss, Ridley will still see his carries and have big games and the combo of DMC and MJD will produce based of passes they will catch alone.

Jones, Garcon, Austin, Nicks - Love this group more than most. Jones and garcon speak for themselves but Austin and Nicks was pure value. I know everyone hates Nicks because he sucked last year. That was last year with a bad QB a bad team and no care. Players dont care sometimes, this is redraft not dyno. If he sucks, mo more risk than anyone else I would take here, but getting a guy who could end up being a WR1 in some weeks with Luck throwing to him is robbery.

Witten - I love some Witten in Linehans offense, he will see a ton of targets and is way better then Pettigrew so Linehan will call more plays his way as he is a important piece in this offense. I have my backup plan.

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