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Damien Wiliams - RB - Oklahoma

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3 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

In Miami, I remember him being their best pass blocking RB and a good receiving back with straight-line speed but not much lateral speed or wiggle. He caught between 20  and 23 passes 5 years in a row, so the coaches trusted him in pass blocking, but they were always looking for a more dynamic RB. He caught 23 of 24 passes last year. But his 5.1 ypc in KC was his first year above 3.9: https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/8776/damien-williams

That's why I said from what I saw last year. Better line and easier yards for sure. I'm not real adamant about him being way above replacement, because he might not be. But he's at least an average professional back, one who might be even better than that given his history and what happened last year. 

Edited by rockaction

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That's why I said from what I saw last year. Better line and easier yards for sure. I'm not real adamant about him being way above replacement, because he might not be. But he's at least an average professional back, one who might be even better than that given his history and what happened last year. 

Shady should also improve on his 3.2 ypc. It looks like RBBC for a while. 

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2 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Shady should also improve on his 3.2 ypc. It looks like RBBC for a while. 

Well that's...that's too bad. 

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After Reid’s press conference today I think Williams owners can step off the ledge at least a little. Sounds like he will be given the chance to lead the backfield as McCoy is being worked in. He’s likely on a very short leash if he falters. The quote from the presser that was encouraging is when Reid told McCoy how good a player Williams is. 

Edited by ponchsox
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9 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

After Reid’s press conference today I think Williams owners can step off the ledge at least a little. Sounds like he will be given the chance to lead the backfield as McCoy is being worked in. He’s likely on a very short leash if he falters. The quote from the presser that was encouraging is when Reid told McCoy how good a player Williams is. 

On the road at Jacksonville isn't an ideal place to get rolling early.

But after that almost all of their challenging non-division games are at home. At least until December.

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McCoy had no help last year, but in the opinion of many, he was also outplayed by Chris Ivory.  It’s a much better situation for him in KC, so who knows what can happen.  I don’t think shady is nearly as good as the old days, but I am not confident that he has to be even as good as Chris Ivory to be productive....

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As a Williams owner I'm in the "calm down and let's see how this plays out" mode.  Of course, I've drafted, so I have not other choice: :). 

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2 hours ago, scott46984 said:

As a Williams owner I'm in the "calm down and let's see how this plays out" mode.  Of course, I've drafted, so I have not other choice: :). 

I mean, you have 3 choices.

1. You could panic & sell low. 

2. let week 1 play out - if DWill blows up, sell high to the now-panicked McCoy owner, or to anyone else for that matter.  

3. Enjoy the ride & likely get weekly low-end RB1 numbers out of DWill. 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:
2 hours ago, scott46984 said:

As a Williams owner I'm in the "calm down and let's see how this plays out" mode.  Of course, I've drafted, so I have not other choice: :). 

I mean, you have 3 choices.

1. You could panic & sell low. 

2. let week 1 play out - if DWill blows up, sell high to the now-panicked McCoy owner, or to anyone else for that matter.  

3. Enjoy the ride & likely get weekly low-end RB1 numbers out of DWill. 

God I hope #3 happens.  With Gurley as my 1 I’ve got enough to worry about.  

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52 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I mean, you have 3 choices.

1. You could panic & sell low. 

2. let week 1 play out - if DWill blows up, sell high to the now-panicked McCoy owner, or to anyone else for that matter.  

3. Enjoy the ride & likely get weekly low-end RB1 numbers out of DWill.

Definitely not a comprehensive list IMO

Here's one alternate reality...

4. Do not pass go. Do not enjoy the ride. Sweat out not one, but two Andre Reid vultures; take your inconsistent but low-end RB1 medicine, then watch in horror week six(ish) when a strained hammy or some other flesh wound buries your boy Rick James in favor Red Walrus' chosen ones.

(This is from a huge believer in DWill NOT being a JAG - if anything usurps it'll be health IMO - he's a bigger risk than avg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6. Alt-alt reality - DWill finishes RB1 in fantasy football and you build a red and yellow shrine to him in January; some time later Priest Holmes marries you and your future wife and/or baptizes your future kids/fogey-### grandkids

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7 hours ago, LawFitz said:

Definitely not a comprehensive list IMO

Here's one alternate reality...

4. Do not pass go. Do not enjoy the ride. Sweat out not one, but two Andre Reid vultures;

Is that a 5th RB on the Chiefs we’ve never heard of?  :confused: 

Maybe take a moment and like, learn the coach’s name. Just a thought. 

Lord, why did I unmute you for this post. I knew it was a bad idea as soon as I clicked “show”. :doh: 

 

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7 hours ago, dkp993 said:

God I hope #3 happens.  With Gurley as my 1 I’ve got enough to worry about.  

Most likely outcome, in my opinion, is that you get some version of a Kamara/Ingram scenario. 

The only issue with that is that both McCoy & DWill are similar skill-set players. 

And normally it’s safer going with youth, but DWill has a history of being banged up. 

That said, if someone offered me a choice between these two backs right now, I’d probably take DWill. He’s more familiar with the system, he’s healthy now, and barring injury he should get ~60% of the touches. 

In that backfield that should produce a floor of RB2 numbers, with a much higher ceiling if he hits a home run in a given game. 

Maybe I'm off, but I don’t think McCoy is a home run hitter any more. 

As I said in a previous post, it’ll likely be frustrating, but for the 1st two games I’d expect DWill to be featured & McCoy to be sprinkled in. 

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Why do we think Damien Williams is a bigger injury risk than average?

McCoy has missed multiple games in three of the past four seasons and spends a ton of time in the injury report even when he is playing. Is his injury likelihood same/better/worse than average?

Personally I think they will both be very efficient with their touches and warrant nothing less than an automatic flex start every week.

 

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

Why do we think Damien Williams is a bigger injury risk than average?

McCoy has missed multiple games in three of the past four seasons and spends a ton of time in the injury report even when he is playing. Is his injury likelihood same/better/worse than average?

Personally I think they will both be very efficient with their touches and warrant nothing less than an automatic flex start every week.

 

They are both injury prone?  Fire back up the Darwin Wagon!

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15 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

They are both injury prone?  Fire back up the Darwin Wagon!

I think my opinion on Williams is impacted by the limited investment I made in him as my #3 RB. If he was my #1 or #2 I would probably be puckering a lot more.

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43 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I think my opinion on Williams is impacted by the limited investment I made in him as my #3 RB. If he was my #1 or #2 I would probably be puckering a lot more.

This is certainly true of all of us.  But your injury prone point is still a valid one.  

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

This is certainly true of all of us.  But your injury prone point is still a valid one.  

Well I am not sure why we are calling Williams having more than average likelihood of getting injured. Particularly when compared to McCoy.

If both of them are as efficient as I expect them to be, I doubt many will be disappointed.

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What's D Wills Trade value?  I put a trade offer:  Dwill and MVS for Godwin and J. Samuels   I want off this train,  so the offer was to the Mcoy owner in .5 PPR 12 team.  My other RB is Chubb and Cook.  WRs flew off the board in the 3rd he was the best value. (D Wills)  Was this a fair trade offer?

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13 minutes ago, jbalicki10 said:

What's D Wills Trade value?  I put a trade offer:  Dwill and MVS for Godwin and J. Samuels   I want off this train,  so the offer was to the Mcoy owner in .5 PPR 12 team.  My other RB is Chubb and Cook.  WRs flew off the board in the 3rd he was the best value. (D Wills)  Was this a fair trade offer?

He should hit accept right away. 

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19 minutes ago, jbalicki10 said:

What's D Wills Trade value?  I put a trade offer:  Dwill and MVS for Godwin and J. Samuels   I want off this train,  so the offer was to the Mcoy owner in .5 PPR 12 team.  My other RB is Chubb and Cook.  WRs flew off the board in the 3rd he was the best value. (D Wills)  Was this a fair trade offer?

I value him as a RB2 in that offense in 1 PPR leagues.  I don't play .5 PPR but maybe RB3 in that format. I made a point to secure the backfield in my 1PPR auctions. Whether I accepted that offer would depend if I owned James Conner. If I didn't, I'd probably accept to secure the backfield.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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He rejected the offer. No counter.  

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I don't know.

Obviously they went and got Shady.. but anyone watching Shady the last couple years saw a guy caught in quick drying cement.

Shady is one of my favorite fantasy players ever, but this time I only see him impacting the KC offense briefly.  Over the course of a season, I'm betting on Damien.

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Can most of us agree that McCoy is an upgrade over Hyde in the KC offense?

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9 hours ago, Chaka said:

Why do we think Damien Williams is a bigger injury risk than average?

McCoy has missed multiple games in three of the past four seasons and spends a ton of time in the injury report even when he is playing. Is his injury likelihood same/better/worse than average?

Personally I think they will both be very efficient with their touches and warrant nothing less than an automatic flex start every week.

I favor Williams here, but I think it's worth noting that any rb in this kind of situation is "injury prone".

If Williams breaks a finger and McCoy is ready to go, do you think they make Williams play with a cast?

If McCoy has hamstring tightness in week 10 and they're looking at their matchup with the Patriots on a couple weeks, do you think they ask McCoy to play through the pain? 

Everyone in the fistful of jags offense is valuable because anyone might end up starting during a critical week. 

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Just now, Cowboysfan8 said:

18.5 in ppr

I was happy

I’m in a non-PPR. Otherwise, yeah I would have been psyched. I wound up keeping him in over a last minute consideration to start D-Jax. Cost me a W.

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The writing is on the wall. Shady posted those numbers on a very limited snap count and limited knowledge of the playbook.

His usage can only go up it would seem. 

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2 minutes ago, Payne said:

The writing is on the wall. Shady posted those numbers on a very limited snap count and limited knowledge of the playbook.

His usage can only go up it would seem. 

I have my doubt they see a 31-year old back as a workhorse.  This is not a team which is going to struggle to make the playoffs.  It will be a committee.  Shady may get more touches, but it will be roughly evenly split.  The coaches will want Shady healthy and with plenty of gas for the playoffs.  

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(Reposting here after originally posting in the McCoy thread)

Here's some information for the box score scouts.

Overall, this game was strange because of the injuries (both quarterbacks got hurt, the top receiver got hurt, a top defensive player got ejected, and the chiefs got 3 touchdowns from a single receiver). So it's not going to have as much predictive value as a "normal" game. But we can still look at usage. 

Williams averaged about 12 rushes and 5 catches last year.  He had 13 rushes and 6 catches yesterday.  

Williams had two goal line touches (a catch and a rush) and he converted for the only score.  McCoy didn't get a goal line touch. 

Williams had 6 receptions, McCoy had one.  

I know most of you didn't watch the fourth quarter, because the television feed cut out due to a power outage in the network's van. 

McCoy had 4 rushes for 21 yards and a catch for 12 through 3 quarters. 

Williams had 6 rushes for 10 yards and a touchdown plus 6 catches for 39 yards through those same 3 quarters.  

Darwin Thompson had 1 catch for 3 yards, his only target in the game. 

In the fourth quarter of a blowout, where mahomes hurt his ankle, Hill was at an orthopedic trauma center, and Matt Moore was the quarterback for the Chiefs for the final two drives, McCoy had rushes of 19 and 31 yards, and 4 more rushes for a total of 10 yards.

That's not the "take away his two biggest runs and he didn't have a good day"argument, it's a statement on his usage.  When they needed to run the clock out, Williams got 7 carries for 16 yards and McCoy had 6 carries for 60. 

I didn't see anything that makes me think that Williams won't continue to get about 10 to 12 carries and 4 to 5 catches a week plus a good amount of goal line work. I think McCoy played pretty well and is earning a good portion of the work too.  Williams got a lot more touches this week but that will vary and McCoy could get a couple more at Williams' expense some weeks.  I was happy to see that Thompson didn't touch the ball. Overall this looked pretty ok to me. 

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25 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I have my doubt they see a 31-year old back as a workhorse.  This is not a team which is going to struggle to make the playoffs.  It will be a committee.  Shady may get more touches, but it will be roughly evenly split.  The coaches will want Shady healthy and with plenty of gas for the playoffs.  

You may be right about these things, but that's not good for Williams. He had a 2nd round ADP (obviously higher or lower depending on when a team drafted); and most FF owners don't spend a 2nd round pick on RBs in an even split RBBC.  McCoy was an 8th round pick & getting an even split RBBC on one of the best offenses in the league is a value at that point.

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14 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

You may be right about these things, but that's not good for Williams. He had a 2nd round ADP (obviously higher or lower depending on when a team drafted); and most FF owners don't spend a 2nd round pick on RBs in an even split RBBC.  McCoy was an 8th round pick & getting an even split RBBC on one of the best offenses in the league is a value at that point.

Oh there is no doubt Shady's value is knocked up several rounds and Williams is knocked down a couple.  

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16 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

You may be right about these things, but that's not good for Williams. He had a 2nd round ADP (obviously higher or lower depending on when a team drafted); and most FF owners don't spend a 2nd round pick on RBs in an even split RBBC.  McCoy was an 8th round pick & getting an even split RBBC on one of the best offenses in the league is a value at that point.

That's probably about right.  It's not that shady takes away his job or value but takes away enough of it to make the price paid for Williams by many people to no longer be worth it.  But it probably goes without saying, owning one is a must handcuff to get the other because an injury to either vaults the other to must have status. 

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die hard Chiefs fan with quite a few shares of Williams at a pretty high investment.....unfortunately the Willams side of me is a little bummed.....because Shady looked REALLY good.....he still has the quicks and some shakes and wiggle....as a KC fan it was kind of exciting, I didn't think he had much left, but something about the way he ran looked better than what Williams was bringing....he makes this offense even more scary...gonna be great depth/balance for KC as he looks like a PERFECT fit....but bad for fantasy...

Edited by Stinkin Ref
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As a Williams owner and a former Kareem Hunt owner the wildcard in all this is Andy Reid. And whether it's Williams or Shady it's going to be like walking up to the roulette table each week and betting on black or red and hoping it hits. Who knows what Reid is going to do here, heck I've seen games where Hunt was at or near 100 yards for the first half and then see the ball 3 times for the rest of the game. It's frustrating and now with 2 good backs in the fold it's going to be nuts for both owners. I kept Williams in a dynasty move(lost a 10th rd pick) and had I known about Shady I might have walked away from this to avoid the headache - Shady looked good yesterday and I won't be shocked if Reid uses him more. The only positive from yesterday was Mahomes getting banged up and it might get Reid to focus more on running game until he heals and both may benefit.

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37 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

die hard Chiefs fan with quite a few shares of Williams at a pretty high investment.....unfortunately the Willams side of me is a little bummed.....because Shady looked REALLY good.....he still has the quicks and some shakes and wiggle....as a KC fan it was kind of exciting, I didn't think he had much left, but something about the way he ran looked better than what Williams was bringing....he makes this offense even more scary...gonna be great depth/balance for KC as he looks like a PERFECT fit....but bad for fantasy...

Yep, huge Chiefs fan here and I echo the thought. From a real football perspective, Shady seemed to make something out of not much multiple times and having him is a huge asset to this offense. From a fantasy perspective, kind of sucks if you spent high draft capital on Williams.

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3 minutes ago, HULLOBUDMAN said:

Yep, huge Chiefs fan here and I echo the thought. From a real football perspective, Shady seemed to make something out of not much multiple times and having him is a huge asset to this offense. From a fantasy perspective, kind of sucks if you spent high draft capital on Williams.

But for Mahomes owners it’s fantastic. 

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

(Reposting here after originally posting in the McCoy thread)

Here's some information for the box score scouts.

Overall, this game was strange because of the injuries (both quarterbacks got hurt, the top receiver got hurt, a top defensive player got ejected, and the chiefs got 3 touchdowns from a single receiver). So it's not going to have as much predictive value as a "normal" game. But we can still look at usage. 

Williams averaged about 12 rushes and 5 catches last year.  He had 13 rushes and 6 catches yesterday.  

Williams had two goal line touches (a catch and a rush) and he converted for the only score.  McCoy didn't get a goal line touch. 

Williams had 6 receptions, McCoy had one.  

I know most of you didn't watch the fourth quarter, because the television feed cut out due to a power outage in the network's van. 

McCoy had 4 rushes for 21 yards and a catch for 12 through 3 quarters. 

Williams had 6 rushes for 10 yards and a touchdown plus 6 catches for 39 yards through those same 3 quarters.  

Darwin Thompson had 1 catch for 3 yards, his only target in the game. 

In the fourth quarter of a blowout, where mahomes hurt his ankle, Hill was at an orthopedic trauma center, and Matt Moore was the quarterback for the Chiefs for the final two drives, McCoy had rushes of 19 and 31 yards, and 4 more rushes for a total of 10 yards.

That's not the "take away his two biggest runs and he didn't have a good day"argument, it's a statement on his usage.  When they needed to run the clock out, Williams got 7 carries for 16 yards and McCoy had 6 carries for 60. 

I didn't see anything that makes me think that Williams won't continue to get about 10 to 12 carries and 4 to 5 catches a week plus a good amount of goal line work. I think McCoy played pretty well and is earning a good portion of the work too.  Williams got a lot more touches this week but that will vary and McCoy could get a couple more at Williams' expense some weeks.  I was happy to see that Thompson didn't touch the ball. Overall this looked pretty ok to me. 

The bold says everything. Shady was better. 6 catches for 39 yards? Yikes. 

And while I agree about him burning out the clock, maybe it was to get more work in the offense too. No idea.

What I do know is Shady looked much more dynamic and the offense seemed to flow even better while he was in there. IF we see that, pretty sure Reid sees that.  

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Quote

What I do know is Shady looked much more dynamic and the offense seemed to flow even better while he was in there. IF we see that, pretty sure Reid sees that.  

Maybe.

or maybe it was this one game.

funny thing about Reid RBBCs. Ya just never can tell week to week. So it’s hard to read into any one game & predict what will happen the next. 

I own shares of neither. What I see is roughly equal FF production, and the distinct possibility that it’s an even split all year. 

You also have to factor in that McCoy is 31 with a ton of mileage on those treads. Everyone looks fresh in game 1.  I’m interested in seeing how Shady looks in game 5 or 6 when the pounding adds up. 

And even if he still looks good, as i’ve mentioned before on one of these KC RB topics, the double edged sword is that he may be most productive if his usage is limited to keep him fresh. Because just as Reid saw what you saw on the field, he also knows McCoy’s birthday. So it’s not like Reid is going to wake up today and think, “wow, McCoy really outplayed DWill. Imma give him 30+ touches next week!”

i just don’t see that being realistic. Shady’s upside is likely going to be limited by his touches. As others have said, that’s hard to predict week to week. But I can’t see any scenario that sends DWill to the bench & McCoy becoming a feature back. This isn’t RoJo & Peyton Barber. DWill wasn’t as productive, but he still hauled in 6 receptions, and he did score the TD. 

Finally, the Chiefs put up 50+ using the game plan they used. And Reid probably saw that too.  Maybe if they lost by 30 they’d have reason to make changes.

don't mean to throw cold water on any McCoy owners & not trying to hype up DWill. Just making observations from the standpoint of someone who has neither RB. 

They’re both likely to be RB2s with the occasional “boom!” game, unless one of them gets hurt. And even then I’d expect DThompson to come in & take over half the touches. 

Andy Reid gonna Andy Reid. :shrug:

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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4 minutes ago, Payne said:

The bold says everything. Shady was better. 6 catches for 39 yards? Yikes. 

For the box score scouts, Williams had 5 catches for 40 yards, then mahomes tossed it forward to him on a jet sweep on first and goal from the 1. It got stopped for a loss of 1, so he had 6 for 39.  It's not like he's catching dump offs and doesn't know how to catch - he averaged over 10 yards per catch last year, broke a long one in the preseason on one of his only touches, had 5 catches for 40 yards in this game, and this wasn't a traditional "reception". It was a goal line run that counts as a forward pass because the runner crosses in front of the quarterback instead of behind him. Even if he'd scored on the play, he'd have had 6 catches for 41 yarda instead of 6 for 39. And he scored on his next carry. 

If you want to say he didn't run for a lot of yards, that's fine.  He averaged two per carry.  But if you just look at the yarda per catch and say yikes, it's pretty clear you didn't catch any of the game or pay attention to what anyone said afterwards - Williams looked good catching the ball, as usual, and made a couple good individual effort plays including a catch where he had to fight got a first down.  And that's fine - not everybody watches every game or pays attention to what happened with every player.  But if you weigh in here with your opinion without actually doing work you should say so, or maybe ask questions instead of making statements. 

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6 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

For the box score scouts, Williams had 5 catches for 40 yards, then mahomes tossed it forward to him on a jet sweep on first and goal from the 1. It got stopped for a loss of 1, so he had 6 for 39.  It's not like he's catching dump offs and doesn't know how to catch - he averaged over 10 yards per catch last year, broke a long one in the preseason on one of his only touches, had 5 catches for 40 yards in this game, and this wasn't a traditional "reception". It was a goal line run that counts as a forward pass because the runner crosses in front of the quarterback instead of behind him. Even if he'd scored on the play, he'd have had 6 catches for 41 yarda instead of 6 for 39. And he scored on his next carry. 

If you want to say he didn't run for a lot of yards, that's fine.  He averaged two per carry.  But if you just look at the yarda per catch and say yikes, it's pretty clear you didn't catch any of the game or pay attention to what anyone said afterwards - Williams looked good catching the ball, as usual, and made a couple good individual effort plays including a catch where he had to fight got a first down.  And that's fine - not everybody watches every game or pays attention to what happened with every player.  But if you weigh in here with your opinion without actually doing work you should say so, or maybe ask questions instead of making statements. 

Thank you for clarifying. As someone with skin in this backfield, it helps to have the context behind the numbers.

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4 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

For the box score scouts, Williams had 5 catches for 40 yards, then mahomes tossed it forward to him on a jet sweep on first and goal from the 1. It got stopped for a loss of 1, so he had 6 for 39.  It's not like he's catching dump offs and doesn't know how to catch - he averaged over 10 yards per catch last year, broke a long one in the preseason on one of his only touches, had 5 catches for 40 yards in this game, and this wasn't a traditional "reception". It was a goal line run that counts as a forward pass because the runner crosses in front of the quarterback instead of behind him. Even if he'd scored on the play, he'd have had 6 catches for 41 yarda instead of 6 for 39. And he scored on his next carry. 

If you want to say he didn't run for a lot of yards, that's fine.  He averaged two per carry.  But if you just look at the yarda per catch and say yikes, it's pretty clear you didn't catch any of the game or pay attention to what anyone said afterwards - Williams looked good catching the ball, as usual, and made a couple good individual effort plays including a catch where he had to fight got a first down.  And that's fine - not everybody watches every game or pays attention to what happened with every player.  But if you weigh in here with your opinion without actually doing work you should say so, or maybe ask questions instead of making statements. 

I absolutely watched the game and that's the reason I can say Shady looked more dynamic. I would say given those same 6 catches Williams received McCoy would have eclipsed 39 yards. Though we will never know for sure.  Just like I'm sure McCoy could have punched in that 1 yard TD and then the chatter would certainly be different. 

I'm not here to argue. I have Williams. But I wish I had Shady. 

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1 minute ago, Payne said:

I absolutely watched the game and that's the reason I can say Shady looked more dynamic. I would say given those same 6 catches Williams received McCoy would have eclipsed 39 yards. Though we will never know for sure.  Just like I'm sure McCoy could have punched in that 1 yard TD and then the chatter would certainly be different. 

I'm not here to argue. I have Williams. But I wish I had Shady. 

It sounds like you're sharing your opinion again.  Which is great, because you've couched it that way.  But a lot of people didn't watch the game and are trying to find out what happened in the game. It's obvious what the box score says, but sometimes there's context and this game had a lot of weird stuff with lots of players getting taken out of the game, early drives that went for long touchdowns, mahomes hurting his ankle, etc.  Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. 

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9 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

For the box score scouts, Williams had 5 catches for 40 yards, then mahomes tossed it forward to him on a jet sweep on first and goal from the 1. It got stopped for a loss of 1, so he had 6 for 39.  It's not like he's catching dump offs and doesn't know how to catch - he averaged over 10 yards per catch last year, broke a long one in the preseason on one of his only touches, had 5 catches for 40 yards in this game, and this wasn't a traditional "reception". It was a goal line run that counts as a forward pass because the runner crosses in front of the quarterback instead of behind him. Even if he'd scored on the play, he'd have had 6 catches for 41 yarda instead of 6 for 39. And he scored on his next carry. 

If you want to say he didn't run for a lot of yards, that's fine.  He averaged two per carry.  But if you just look at the yarda per catch and say yikes, it's pretty clear you didn't catch any of the game or pay attention to what anyone said afterwards - Williams looked good catching the ball, as usual, and made a couple good individual effort plays including a catch where he had to fight got a first down.  And that's fine - not everybody watches every game or pays attention to what happened with every player.  But if you weigh in here with your opinion without actually doing work you should say so, or maybe ask questions instead of making statements. 

Not trying to attack here but I am having a lot of issues understanding your argument. You keep referring to the "box score scouts" but then you are trying use numbers to support your argument. Maybe I am just not understanding your stance because I'm slow...

I don't know of anyone that watched this game and came away with the thought that Williams looked to be the superior player. I will agree that Williams looked good in the passing game as you said above but you didn't see McCoy involved very much yet.  Considering the length of time he has been with the team, I think people are logical in thinking that he will get a bigger piece of the passing game pie as the season goes on. 

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I drafted Williams in the 5th and Shady in the 11th.  

I am going to hold off starting either until there are more defined roles.  I went RB heavy getting Chubb (2nd), Carson (4th) and Mack (6th).

 

 

 

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bostonfred is usually an invaluable resource. As soon as he starts writing in this thread, though, I just get these "Wrong! Wrong! Wrong" flashes going in front of my face. It's a true RBBC with Shady until he can't bring home the bacon anymore. They just did that to Jax's defense. I see no reason for his usage not to increase. 

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Just now, HULLOBUDMAN said:

Not trying to attack here but I am having a lot of issues understanding your argument. You keep referring to the "box score scouts" but then you are trying use numbers to support your argument. Maybe I am just not understanding your stance because I'm slow...

I don't know of anyone that watched this game and came away with the thought that Williams looked to be the superior player. I will agree that Williams looked good in the passing game as you said above but you didn't see McCoy involved very much yet.  Considering the length of time he has been with the team, I think people are logical in thinking that he will get a bigger piece of the passing game pie as the season goes on. 

I'm not supporting an argument about Williams.  I'm clarifying something that wasn't clear in the box score.

Carlos hyde averaged under 6 yarda a catch.  All he really does is catch dump offs. Yesterday, Williams caught 6 for 39 and payne said yikes. Someone who didn't watch the game might say wow Williams sucks at catching the ball like hyde.  

But that's not what was happening.  Williams looked good catching the ball yesterday and not as good running it. He had 5 catches at 8 per catch on the day. His sixth "catch" was a jet sweep on the goal line that hurt his average, so if you're a box score scout looking for information about what actually happened, that may be useful information.  

If you want me to make an "argument" about what that means for his future production, I'd say Williams got slightly more rushing and receiving attempts than he did last year and was slightly less productive than he was on the same number of touches last year, but that there are some extenuating circumstances and some normal variance.  I've never thought Williams was an elite runner, but i think his speed, receiving ability and goal line ability make him a good fit for what Reid wants to do and what I'm looking for from a fantasy rb. If he continues to get the 10 to 12 carries and 4 to 5 catches a game I'd projected then i don't care who gets the rest.  But that's not an objective stance - that's my opinion on him as a player.  The objective fact i was clarifying is that he had 5 catches for 40 yards plus a jet sweep for minus one on the goal line, and i shared it so you can form your own opinion.  

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Shady easily looked like the better runner. Both looked good receiving but Williams can do more routes. I think Shady gets 2X the carries as long as he’s healthy. And no reason he won’t get some goal rushing work, though that could be spread almost 3 backs (the other Williams) based on packages. 

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