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When you go Graham in the 1st of a PPR redraft... (1 Viewer)

Archer

Archer

Footballguy
what is your strategy for taking RBs and WRs in the next few rounds? I'm so used to drafting RBs and WRs early I feel "off" when I use a 1st round pick on Graham (not debating he isn't worth the pick, he absolutely is!) but does anyone else feel like you are behind the 8 ball immediately and does it cause you to pull towards RBs more than you might normally? Any suggestions for how to attack rounds 2-6 if you took Graham in the first? Can you draft a great team going TE in round 1?

 
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Getting an advantage at one position means you will be behind the curve at another position. You simply choose to have your advantage at TE and then your disadvantage at whatever position you neglect in rounds 2-5. If you think there is value in later rounds at RB or WR, you take it late and your team will be better having drafting Graham in the 1st if you're right and worse if you're wrong.

 
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.

 
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
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This I agree with 100%. Even if Peyton falls to the 2nd or 3rd I don't think you can take him because of what it would mean to your RB and WR core.

 
Well I had my draft in a ten man league a couple of days ago. Was given the 8th spot ( yuck ) and went with Graham as Calvin was gone and Forte went right before me at 7.

Best player available for the next few rounds saw me load up on WRs and go upside down.

I have a fear for my RBs to be honest but have a potential for large scores with high ceiling types. It went as such....

Graham

Bryant

Nelson

Spiller

Matthews

Patterson

Sanders

Rice

RG3

Bengals ( surprised myself here but in ten man there's something to be said for grabbing a stud D )

T West

J Hill

Roeth'brgr

K Stills

Bryant K

I tried to load up on some rookie RBs in hopes 1 can turn into an RB 1. Took a chance on Rice at the price as well.

Basically I feel that as long as you stock up on some good value RBs with potential to rack up numbers if things go right , if you hit pay dirt you will be laughing

 
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Archer said:
what is your strategy for taking RBs and WRs in the next few rounds? I'm so used to drafting RBs and WRs early I feel "off" when I use a 1st round pick on Graham (not debating he isn't worth the pick, he absolutely is!) but does anyone else feel like you are behind the 8 ball immediately and does it cause you to pull towards RBs more than you might normally? Any suggestions for how to attack rounds 2-6 if you took Graham in the first? Can you draft a great team going TE in round 1?
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I am going Graham then WRs in rounds 2-4 in PPR leagues.Then getting 4 RBs in rounds 5-9 with a WR thrown in there somewhere (start 2 RBs / 3 WRs).

I am comfortable with a RBBC of CJ2K, Pierre Thomas, Woodhead, and D Freeman or others who may be available (J Bell, Rice, Pierce, etc.).

I have mocked some very nice teams with this strategy.

 
In non-PPR, if taking TE in first, I would go RB-RB-WR-WR-WR.

In PPR, I would probably go RB-WR-RB-WR-WR

WR is deep. I think that you would be ok.

I agree that I would wait on QB, but I think that it is totally fine. If you don't have 1 of the top 3 QBs, there will be very little difference.
 
In the middle of an MFL 10 right now where I took Graham in the first. I'm with you on feeling behind, especially at RB where things get thin really fast.

I was able to get Spiller and Rice at ADP, but then started just missing on guys like Gore, Lamar Miller, and Sproles. I ended up with Torrey Smith, Woodhead and (mistake pick) Carlos Hyde.

If I were to do it all over again I would probably skip Antonio Brown in the 2nd round and take an RB (Lynch, Ellington, Morris and Stacy were still available) and then take a mixture of high-floor and upside WRs later (of which there seem to be many).

All that said, in my main money league I probably won't take Graham in the first and instead wait and take some combo of Ertz, Eifert, Miller, Allen and Kelce and hope one of them hits enough to help me keep pace with the Graham owner.

Just my two cents and great post.

 
Interesting to hear your thoughts Lord Fantasy. I had seriously considered A. Brown in the 2nd if he falls, but wonder if I'd still have that same panic about waiting for a RB in the 3rd, especially if Ellington, Morris, Stacy were all gone by then.

 
How you deal with it in large part depends on your league size, draft slot, and lineup requirements. You probably need to do a little extra thinking about the tiers of guys you might discount. For example, you cited Ellington, Morris, and Stacy as guys you'd hate to miss out on in the third--but what about Reggie Bush? I think that when you accept the opportunity cost of passing on a 1st-round RB, you need to be ready to consider every player available to you. Foster is also a gamble in the 2nd right now because of questions about his hamstring, but one that could blow the doors off your league if he pays out.

Generally, I think you can get by with BPA as long as you get your first RB no later than round 5. If going truly upside-down, I'd want to have at least one starter likely to see 15+ carries a week to buy some time while I waited for the later picks to shake out.

 
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
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My strategy would be to take a QB late. Graham is a such edge at TE that he more than makes up for not having a top QB. I would target Cutler/Rivers/Ben/Wilson in the 8th round.

 
We Tigers said:
Generally, I think you can get by with BPA as long as you get your first RB no later than round 5. If going truly upside-down, I'd want to have at least one starter likely to see 15+ carries a week to buy some time while I waited for the later picks to shake out.
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I really like this idea of doing Best Player Available after making a Nontraditional First-round Move (NFM).

Because even if you completely miss on RB in the draft there's almost always an RB on the waiver wire at some point in the season. As long as your league uses a blind bidding system you should be able to go all in on that undrafted RB that ends up being a meaningful contributor.

Unfortunately with the draft-only MFL 10 I won't have a waiver wire to work. So I plan on using my last two picks on guys like CJ Anderson with the hopes of catching a late-season break.

 
12 Team PPR last night (QB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex, 5 bench spots):

1.10 Graham

2.03 Julio (Calvin, DT, Dez, AJG, Marshall all gone by this point)

3.10 Larry

4.03 Montee

5.10 Ray Rice

6.03 Floyd

7.10 Matt Ryan

8.03 Joique

9.10 Amendola

10.03 Hunter

11.10 Gordon

12.03 Randle

Not a super serious league.

 
wodahSShadow said:
12 Team PPR last night (QB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex, 5 bench spots):

1.10 Graham

2.03 Julio (Calvin, DT, Dez, AJG, Marshall all gone by this point)

3.10 Larry

4.03 Montee

5.10 Ray Rice

6.03 Floyd

7.10 Matt Ryan

8.03 Joique

9.10 Amendola

10.03 Hunter

11.10 Gordon

12.03 Randle

Not a super serious league.
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Not with Ball going in the 4th ;)
 
wodahSShadow said:
12 Team PPR last night (QB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex, 5 bench spots):

1.10 Graham

2.03 Julio (Calvin, DT, Dez, AJG, Marshall all gone by this point)

3.10 Larry

4.03 Montee

5.10 Ray Rice

6.03 Floyd

7.10 Matt Ryan

8.03 Joique

9.10 Amendola

10.03 Hunter

11.10 Gordon

12.03 Randle

Not a super serious league.
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Yea, no kidding. Montee in the 4th and Joique in the 8th will never happen.

 
wodahSShadow said:
12 Team PPR last night (QB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex, 5 bench spots):

1.10 Graham

2.03 Julio (Calvin, DT, Dez, AJG, Marshall all gone by this point)

3.10 Larry

4.03 Montee

5.10 Ray Rice

6.03 Floyd

7.10 Matt Ryan

8.03 Joique

9.10 Amendola

10.03 Hunter

11.10 Gordon

12.03 Randle

Not a super serious league.
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Haven't seen Montee last into the third, let alone the fourth in any league, so there's not much to learn here.

 
Well I should have stated, I wouldn't feel much pressure or feel "behind the curve" if I only had to start 1 RB. I'm taking about taking Graham in the 1st in leagues where you must start 2 RBs, and can even start a 3rd at the flex (just to clarify)

 
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well I am up in the 3rd and the best available RBs are Stacy and Spiller. Peyton and Brees are both there, and very tempting, but that would absolutely be murder on my RB and WR core if I went QB here I think....

 
It's all going to depend on your league settings, but it doesn't matter what position your points come from. Who cares if you're at a disadvantage at RB/WR if you have a bigger advantage at TE and QB?

 
cstu said:
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
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My strategy would be to take a QB late. Graham is a such edge at TE that he more than makes up for not having a top QB. I would target Cutler/Rivers/Ben/Wilson in the 8th round.
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wouldnt taking a qb in the second essentially give you huge advantages at TWO positions?
 
Two years ago guy in my league drafted graham/brees in the first two rounds and then dez in the third. We all laughed when he rolled out michael turner and isaac redman as his starting rbs. Didnt hurt he also drafted alfred morris late. He was the last one laughing as he rolled to a championship with little resistance and essentially the same team.

 
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12 team ppr, start 1 qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, 1 te, 2 flex, k def, drafted from 11 spot

Graham

D.Thomas Den

Ellington AZ

Gerhart Jac

Gore SF

T. Smith Balt

Sanders Den

Ryan Alt

Wilson Sea

Woodhead SD

Decker NY

Williams Car

Ingram NO

Blount Pitt

Bailey Dall

TB def

should of passed on Sanders and Blount

 
shadyridr said:
humpback said:
It's all going to depend on your league settings, but it doesn't matter what position your points come from. Who cares if you're at a disadvantage at RB/WR if you have a bigger advantage at TE and QB?
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this.
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It is absolutely this. Doesn't matter where the points are coming from. It just matters that you are getting the points.

If it makes you feel better, think of Graham as your RB1. The positions basically become a shell game. Maybe your top WR is really your RB2 and the first runner you draft is your WR1. At some point, your "TE1" is really going to wind up either your 2nd runner selected or 3rd WR selected and likely will have a very good shot at equaling/outproducing any other TE1 outside of the top 4-5. Taking an early QB doesn't really change the paradigm that much, although you would need to be talking the Peyton/Brees/Rodgers tier imo. Need to be banking a guy who is decidedly in the camp of "likely to outscore most of the competition" when grabbing one early after leading with a non-traditional first rounder.

 
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5-ish Finkle said:
shadyridr said:
humpback said:
It's all going to depend on your league settings, but it doesn't matter what position your points come from. Who cares if you're at a disadvantage at RB/WR if you have a bigger advantage at TE and QB?
Click to expand...
this.
Click to expand...
It is absolutely this. Doesn't matter where the points are coming from. It just matters that you are getting the points.

If it makes you feel better, think of Graham as your RB1. The positions basically become a shell game. Maybe your top WR is really your RB2 and the first runner you draft is your WR1. At some point, your "TE1" is really going to wind up either your 2nd runner selected or 3rd WR selected and likely will have a very good shot at equaling/outproducing any other TE1 outside of the top 4-5. Taking an early QB doesn't really change the paradigm that much, although you would need to be talking the Peyton/Brees/Rodgers tier imo. Need to be banking a guy who is decidedly in the camp of "likely to outscore most of the competition" when grabbing one early after leading with a non-traditional first rounder.
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Yes. At the end of the day, its the points that matter; not whom they are attached to.

Selecting Graham first gives you top end points with less injury risk than your traditional RB and, depending on your league rules, more "flex" flexibility.

Mocked out, I have seen some drafts taking Graham (usually in the 6-9 spot) shaking out something like this:

Graham

Julio or Nelson

Ryan Matthews, Frank Gore or another very good WR

somewhere they pick up a Cutler/Romo/Brady Qb (mayber a Cam Newton, depending)

Reinforce the RB spot with K. Robinson/L. Blount/F. Jackson types. §

 
Archer said:
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
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This I agree with 100%. Even if Peyton falls to the 2nd or 3rd I don't think you can take him because of what it would mean to your RB and WR core.
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Not exactly the same, but I'm in the middle of a Best Ball draft with several industry types and I opened Demaryius/Gronk/Ellington/Rodgers. I'm fine with that, especially in Best Ball (where getting anchors at QB and TE frees up roster spots to grab lottery tickets at RB and WR). The Graham drafter started Graham/Ball/Cobb/Cruz, which is also a pretty strong start; he easily could have subbed Peyton in for Cobb in the 3rd and still been fine, imo, though grabbing Peyton in the 2nd would have really left things dire at the other positions.

Of course, industry drafts aren't exactly typical in how far the top QBs usually wind up falling. In most drafts you won't have a shot at Peyton in the mid-3rd or Brees/Rodgers in the 4th (or even sometimes as late as the 5th).

 
12 team PPR league I went:

1.08 - Jimmy Graham

2.05 - Le'Veon Bell - This was before all these rumors of Blount sniping carries... unsure how I'm feeling about this pick now. It was between Bell and Murray and I chose Bell. Dallas' defense is going to be so bad Murray worries me a lot in terms of real on the ground production. He might get like 60-70 receptions but I can't see him being that productive on the ground.

3.08 - Pierre Garcon (huge run on WRs there really was nothing left here)

4.05 - Andre Johnson (same as 2.05 unsure how I'm feeling about this... it was between him and VJax and I went with the higher PPR upside).

5.08 - Ryan Matthews

6.05 - Emmanuel Sanders

So right now my team looks like

QB -

RB - Le'Veon Bell

RB - Ryan Matthews

WR - Pierre Garcon

WR - Andre Johnson

WR - Emmanuel Sanders

TE - Jimmy Graham

I'm not 'in love' with this draft, but I'm not upset with it either. I think I'd have been a lot happier if Jordy, Julio or Brown fell to me but they went the 3 picks right before me at 2.05. So far, this is the 2nd draft I've taken Graham in the 1st with and I haven't been a fan of any of my final rosters when everything shook out. I guess we'll see how it turns out though. My favorite teams on paper so far have been going WR/WR in the first two rounds. Those teams all look on paper to me as dominant teams. One league I took a WR in the first 4 rounds and I'm now going to war with Thomas, Marshall, Patterson and Cruz in a start 3 WR with a flex. Are my RBs a tad week? Sure... but nobody is going to come close to my WR and flex values in that league.

 
Archer said:
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
Click to expand...
This I agree with 100%. Even if Peyton falls to the 2nd or 3rd I don't think you can take him because of what it would mean to your RB and WR core.
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I actually took Graham and Rodgers in one draft that just started. None of the RBs/WRs in the late 2nd round range knock my socks off, so I decided to grab Rodgers. I'll be loading up on RBs/WRs from here on out. I think I can get a couple good ones at the 3/4 turn. We'll see how it turns out... I have no idea. I'm not as distraught as I thought I'd be, though... yet.

 
Adam Harstad said:
Archer said:
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
Click to expand...
This I agree with 100%. Even if Peyton falls to the 2nd or 3rd I don't think you can take him because of what it would mean to your RB and WR core.
Click to expand...
Not exactly the same, but I'm in the middle of a Best Ball draft with several industry types and I opened Demaryius/Gronk/Ellington/Rodgers. I'm fine with that, especially in Best Ball (where getting anchors at QB and TE frees up roster spots to grab lottery tickets at RB and WR). The Graham drafter started Graham/Ball/Cobb/Cruz, which is also a pretty strong start; he easily could have subbed Peyton in for Cobb in the 3rd and still been fine, imo, though grabbing Peyton in the 2nd would have really left things dire at the other positions.

Of course, industry drafts aren't exactly typical in how far the top QBs usually wind up falling. In most drafts you won't have a shot at Peyton in the mid-3rd or Brees/Rodgers in the 4th (or even sometimes as late as the 5th).
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Just real quick-like... what is "best ball?"

 
I had my draft with buddies this past weekend. $100 buy-in, PPR. Had the #5 pick. Came down to Lacy or Graham and decided to go with Graham. Starting lineup is QB-RB-RB-WR-WR-WR-TE-Flex-K-DEF-7BN. Overall I really like this team. I got lucky and Ball came back to me in the 2nd. Had the draft at a buddies house and all were drinking pretty heavily. Someone took Reggie Bush in the 2nd, so Murray and Ball were both there at #20. I also drafted RGIII and Cam, so not really sure who I'll start every week.

QB-RGIII

RB-Montee

RB-Gerhart

WR-Keenan Allen

WR-Michael Floyd

WR-Kendall Wright

TE-Graham

Flex-Chris Johnson

K-Dawson

DEF-Patriots

BN-Sankey, Newton, Freeman, Khiry Robinson, Steve Smith, Ladarius Green, Gordon

 
humpback said:
It's all going to depend on your league settings, but it doesn't matter what position your points come from. Who cares if you're at a disadvantage at RB/WR if you have a bigger advantage at TE and QB?
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It's probably my league settings talking, but when I drafted Graham in the first round at pick seven overall, I immediately felt behind the eight ball at RB. In my opinion, the stud RB is so rare in today's NFL that if you have a chance to draft one of those you take it and keep taking it until they're all gone.

 
Braktastic said:
humpback said:
It's all going to depend on your league settings, but it doesn't matter what position your points come from. Who cares if you're at a disadvantage at RB/WR if you have a bigger advantage at TE and QB?
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It's probably my league settings talking, but when I drafted Graham in the first round at pick seven overall, I immediately felt behind the eight ball at RB. In my opinion, the stud RB is so rare in today's NFL that if you have a chance to draft one of those you take it and keep taking it until they're all gone.
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You are behind the eight ball at RB when you take Graham in the first, but you're ahead of the eight ball at TE. Likewise, stud RBs are rare, but so is Graham. Seems a bit strange that you didn't follow your own advice if you really feel that way, but again, it doesn't matter if you're behind the eight ball at any position, what matters is how many points you score total (for all intents and purposes).

 
humpback said:
You are behind the eight ball at RB when you take Graham in the first, but you're ahead of the eight ball at TE. Likewise, stud RBs are rare, but so is Graham. Seems a bit strange that you didn't follow your own advice if you really feel that way, but again, it doesn't matter if you're behind the eight ball at any position, what matters is how many points you score total (for all intents and purposes).
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It's probably a combination of old habits die hard, my league settings, and fact that Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron are available so much later relatively speaking.

 
I'm an advocate of taking whoever you perceive as the BPA in the first 2-3 rounds regardless of position. That said in the mocks I've done (14 teamers to prepare for my snake league) I have hated my roster every time I took Graham in the 1st.

I've like the results much better getting Julius Thomas in the 3rd or waiting to take guys like Reed or Bennett in later rounds.

 
shadyridr said:
humpback said:
It's all going to depend on your league settings, but it doesn't matter what position your points come from. Who cares if you're at a disadvantage at RB/WR if you have a bigger advantage at TE and QB?
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this.
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was gonna post something similiar... lets say you draft at 1.8 ppr no te premium

1.8 graham

2.5 Nelson

3.8 Brees/Rodgers/Manning

4.5 Maybe Morris/Gerhart/Sankey

on a given week it would be very tough to beat a Graham/Manning combo if they are playing their best.

 
Regardless of ppr or standard...couldn't you make a good case for Graham over Calvin? I can see Graham scoring close to the same amount of points as Calvin this year but at a position where you would dominate your opponent. You could still possibly get a Dez or AJ but more than likely score a Julio or Marshall on the way back if you wanted a premium WR

 
Well so far I'm liking the team okay, but again, just different going TE in the first

1.6 Graham

2.7 A. Brown

3.6 Stacy

4.7 AJ

5.6 Harvin

6.7 Gore

7.6 Reed (thinking he will start at the flex most weeks if he has the year I think he will)

8.7 Benjamin (may seem early but was the last true #1 on board IMO)

 
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Here's that MFL 10 I was talking about earlier.

From the 7-Spot. First six picks were McCoy, Charles, Forte, Megatron, Peterson and Lacy.

Graham

A. Brown

C. Patterson (I know: too high)

Spiller

Rice

Woodhead

Hyde (Bad pick)

R. Cooper

Kaepernick

Khiry Robinson

J. Boykin (My favorite pick as there's no TE and Rodgers is quick with his progressions)

Carson Palmer

 
Did it in an MFL50 best ball:

Graham

Antonio Brown

Doug Martin

Andre Johnson

Percy Harvin

Chris Johnson

Foles

Ok with it so far... Wish I would have waited on QBa bit longer and grabbed another WR, but nothing fantastic on the board.

 
shadyridr said:
cstu said:
starks said:
You just have to take best available. But in my opinion if you take Graham you basically can not take a QB until late unless you hit jackpot on your next 2 picks at WR and RB. But even then you are behind the curve.
Click to expand...
My strategy would be to take a QB late. Graham is a such edge at TE that he more than makes up for not having a top QB. I would target Cutler/Rivers/Ben/Wilson in the 8th round.
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wouldnt taking a qb in the second essentially give you huge advantages at TWO positions?
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Agree. Manning, Graham and 7 guys from The Island of Misfit Toys will probably lead you 4-5 wins on their own. Put some mediocre talent around them and you are contending.

 
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