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RB Derrick Henry, BAL (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Murray is a very good runner, he just didn't fit your scheme.
Now Tenn doesn't have Dallas or the Eagles OL so depending on how much read option they run with Marriota will determine Murrays success in Tenn.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This has little to nothing to do with scheme. He doesn't have it anymore. Even when he got free or had space he looked like he had on 10 pound shoes, no power or agility. He's done. He will be lucky to be in the league in 3 years.
Tennessee saw this and that's why Henry is there.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
You sound like a bitter eagles fan. He wasn't fast in Dallas when he ran for rushing title. Hes a VERY good back, just not Elite. LOL at no power.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
AND TRADED FOR HIM BECAUSE?
Henry was most likely the BPA on their board and went with it, got the feeling Henry and Murray will be together for 2 yrs
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Stop thinking and acting like a child with the bitter part. Don't turn this into something it's not. I don't own the team and don't care about the players enough to feel bitter about any of them.
Hes a VERY good back right? Give me numbers.
Actions speak. Tennessee saw him and said "oh no, we need a starter " and grabbed one.
Hes done as a player.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Youre asking the wrong question. Should be asking what they traded for him. Next to nothing. Henry may be BPA but he's a news for sure
I don't bet but will bet you anything on the 2 year part. He's gone after this season for sure.
Talk up Murray as much as you can. Than draft Henry.
branch0095
Footballguy
This takes some of the upside away from Murray, but his PPR value stays intact IMO. Obviously Henry isn't going to threaten Murray's passing down work, and I still whole heartedly expect Murray to be the lead back this year. I believe TEN can move on from Murray before '17 without having to eat much money or take much of a cap hit (I'm not completely sure about this though).
If Henry is still drafted in the mid 1st, I want nothing to do with him (I was never interested in him there anyways in PPR). If he falls to the tail end of the first to the early 2nd, I think he's a strong pick to stash until next year. I think an off-season of hype that Henry would receive if/when Murray is released after this year would be more beneficial for Henry's value than him actually going somewhere and starting this year. I know that sounds strange, but if Henry were drafted to be a starter this year then he would have to succeed to gain or maintain his value. In this scenario, as long as he doesn't look completely terrible with his opportunities this year then his value will be insulated due to not having the opportunity to be the unquestioned starter. People love upside and the allure of the unknown, and from a value standpoint I think Henry is a safer investment as the heir-apparent to Murray than he would have been had he gone somewhere and had to prove his worth during his rookie season.
If Henry is still drafted in the mid 1st, I want nothing to do with him (I was never interested in him there anyways in PPR). If he falls to the tail end of the first to the early 2nd, I think he's a strong pick to stash until next year. I think an off-season of hype that Henry would receive if/when Murray is released after this year would be more beneficial for Henry's value than him actually going somewhere and starting this year. I know that sounds strange, but if Henry were drafted to be a starter this year then he would have to succeed to gain or maintain his value. In this scenario, as long as he doesn't look completely terrible with his opportunities this year then his value will be insulated due to not having the opportunity to be the unquestioned starter. People love upside and the allure of the unknown, and from a value standpoint I think Henry is a safer investment as the heir-apparent to Murray than he would have been had he gone somewhere and had to prove his worth during his rookie season.
He won't be significant for FF til year two or at least midseason year one. Maybe year three. He's not challenging Murray this year.
Have you missed how poorly the Titans develop young players?
Ya gotta give him time to adjust to the NFL Their ancient staff will not spoon feed him and that's usually a rude awakening for rookies, nevermind that their staff got older in the offseason.
They have one camp to get everyone to learn a new offense. How often can they stop to explain things to a rook?
I think you guys gotta really temper expectations here.
Also with Murray (and the little we know of the new offense), the RBs will be receiving backs on every down, not just third. Let's see how fluid this big guy looks in the NFL and how he picks up the blitz too.
It's a bad line that didn't get as much attention as some hoped. They literally can't "just run straight ahead." Have you noticed Watt is downright giddy days before he plays the Titans OL? Maybe a good team with a good line could have Henry run predictable 'up the gut' runs time and again. Not this line. They need the benefit of Ds guessing. He's going to have to catch the ball, run outside and...be a complete back. Many writeups today pretend the Titans are a quality team with a nice OL. Ya gotta choke down some of these articles to truly consider where he is.
Have you missed how poorly the Titans develop young players?
Ya gotta give him time to adjust to the NFL Their ancient staff will not spoon feed him and that's usually a rude awakening for rookies, nevermind that their staff got older in the offseason.
They have one camp to get everyone to learn a new offense. How often can they stop to explain things to a rook?
I think you guys gotta really temper expectations here.
Also with Murray (and the little we know of the new offense), the RBs will be receiving backs on every down, not just third. Let's see how fluid this big guy looks in the NFL and how he picks up the blitz too.
It's a bad line that didn't get as much attention as some hoped. They literally can't "just run straight ahead." Have you noticed Watt is downright giddy days before he plays the Titans OL? Maybe a good team with a good line could have Henry run predictable 'up the gut' runs time and again. Not this line. They need the benefit of Ds guessing. He's going to have to catch the ball, run outside and...be a complete back. Many writeups today pretend the Titans are a quality team with a nice OL. Ya gotta choke down some of these articles to truly consider where he is.
shader
Footballguy
A few things about Henry.
1). He gets a lot of hate for the % of "dead carries" he gets. These aren't his fault IMO. The Bama line isn't what it once was. It was a solid Oline, but we aren't talking about the kind of line that Ingram or Trent had. They allowed a lot of penetration.
2) I think the freakish size/speed value of Henry is something that fantasy owners should be salivating over, but they aren't. I don't get it. Probably boredom with Bama rbs. This isn't a typical Bama rb. He's a freak in every sense of the word.
3) I think Bri is too harsh on the Titans OL here. They acquired a good run blocking center and a mauler at RT with the 8th pick. The problem in the TN run game was two-fold. First, the line didn't block well....but second and probably more importantly, the rbs were absolute trash. It's easy for JJ Watt to be excited about playing the Totans when there isn't a single rb on the roster to worry about. Now there are two and they both will trouble defenses greatly.
4) NFL comparisons....I don't see a good one. He has a size/speed ratio that I can't recall seeing in the NFL. I'm excited about seeing how it translates. Eddie George is a decent comparison. I think his floor is a Brandon Jacobs, but that's really selling his speed short.
His ceiling is a hybrid of Eddie George and Dickerson. Not saying he'll be as good as ED, but there are similarities.
Just give him a crease....
1). He gets a lot of hate for the % of "dead carries" he gets. These aren't his fault IMO. The Bama line isn't what it once was. It was a solid Oline, but we aren't talking about the kind of line that Ingram or Trent had. They allowed a lot of penetration.
2) I think the freakish size/speed value of Henry is something that fantasy owners should be salivating over, but they aren't. I don't get it. Probably boredom with Bama rbs. This isn't a typical Bama rb. He's a freak in every sense of the word.
3) I think Bri is too harsh on the Titans OL here. They acquired a good run blocking center and a mauler at RT with the 8th pick. The problem in the TN run game was two-fold. First, the line didn't block well....but second and probably more importantly, the rbs were absolute trash. It's easy for JJ Watt to be excited about playing the Totans when there isn't a single rb on the roster to worry about. Now there are two and they both will trouble defenses greatly.
4) NFL comparisons....I don't see a good one. He has a size/speed ratio that I can't recall seeing in the NFL. I'm excited about seeing how it translates. Eddie George is a decent comparison. I think his floor is a Brandon Jacobs, but that's really selling his speed short.
His ceiling is a hybrid of Eddie George and Dickerson. Not saying he'll be as good as ED, but there are similarities.
Just give him a crease....
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I REALLY wanted the Cowboys to draft him. I like Zeke better but I was salivating over using Henry in the fourth quarter with the lead.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Good one.For what would've been four games per year?
To be fair, those 4 games will also be the same 4 games Romo is healthy.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Long term, who the hell knows. Almost no reason to even project that. 2 seasons ago Demarco Murray was the top fantasy back, now he is on his 3rd team in 3 years. In 2 seasons, the 49ers have gone from a dream landing spot for a young RB to a fantasy wasteland. The Eagles have had 4 different Pro Bowl running backs on the team over the last 2 seasons. Short term, it is awful. Awful staff, lots of competition, bad line, doesn't seem like a fit for scheme/personnel.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
A 28 year old RB will be lucky to be in the league in 3 years? Wow, way to go out on a limb there.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I hear you and can't really argue with most of what you're saying. Things might not go as planned (they rarely do) but the pieces are getting in place for the Titans. I might be overly optimistic.
az_prof
Footballguy
Thank you for the video link. It really helped me see both his strengths and limitations. He was hit in the backfield so many times and he did break some of those tackles. I was not impressed by lateral movement and ability to run outside, but I was impressed by his ability to pick his hole, make a quick decision, accelerate into hole, and I did see enough wiggle and flexibility for a big guy. There was the one long run where he showed good top speed and pulled away from a CB. He is a willing and capable pass blocker. I think he will be successful in NFL although the lack of outside ability will limit him and he didn't get thrown any passes so not sure from this how useful he will be in PPR leagues. Anyone have observations on his pass catching and route running?
Fair enough. Give me a new coach and I will be fired up and excited for their backfield. It's the Browns/Bengals effect(for so many years) that I now have with the Titans. "Fall in love" with some young prospect and then such a burn in FF when I make a homer pick reasonably late. Fisher gave me something and I'm in here defending Lendale who got 1000 yards his second year, as we head to year three. CJ oh my is he fast. Sankey is the top RB in the draft, woohoo! Yeah get rid of CJ, we're all set. Wow are Hunter's college catches exciting, I can't wait for him to play. Locker is pretty cool on tape. He doesn't look like a runner but we've got a passer and runner there. I can go on and on.
I don't find Mularkey to be "professional" and not insulting Whisenhunt, I find him respectful like he thinks highly of him. It's gotta be "we stunk, fell flat on our face" and move forward, accept mistakes etc. Even a hint that Whis did terribly would be something for me.
But amidst the mess, they "found" a UDFA Guard who only allowed a half sack in 7 games, six of those starts. That's exceptional. I get annoyed at first and then angry over time that he is someone they're trying to replace. Fine three years from now or somesuch but as bad as they are- don't poke a stick at it. You got 1 of 22 spots there, fix a different one.
I love that Brian Jones seems like someone that grew up an 80s Ozzy fan and bites things freakishly. I just remember an OK center. He didn't make the pro bowl or all pro or anything. A piece, I'm happy they added a piece.
Their backs aren't trash. I do think Sankey and Cobb will bust. I think Sankey will do well elsewhere. Some days on this board it seems everyone loves Cobb but me. However McCluster is as good as any 3rd down back in the league. After Reid moved him around and Whis signed him to backup Wright, he finally found his role in the NFL. He's no ADP if he's the feature back but neither was Kevin Faulk or David Meggett. He can be nice as a 3rd down back. Andrews should be a backup. I love the guy. He rarely got the chance to get his motor going with 8-12 carries and being called the starter. Doesn't look like he'll get that chance either. However, 5th string QB, long snapper backup, backup FB, slot WR, backup KR and PR- that's valuable. High work ethic/hustle and desire to learn all positions- that's a valuable backup right there. I understand the trash label, but it was more "asking too much" of them. In their roles, they should be fine players.
You mentioned adding a T. Rookie Ts struggle. What happened to last year's rookie T for the Titans? Jake Matthews and Robinson of the Lewan draft? This is why Delanie Walker implored they sign a veteran.
So yeah I've got this burn feel. I think with good reason. A new staff would change that, I'd be hopeful again for rooks.
I love Fowler. Maybe I'm an old soul of a fan but I love old style football. Drafting a beast of a FB that can catch the ball so well he can play slot just fed my old soul the right way. Reading how he was a top HS RB, decided to play FB at Alabama rather than battle the studs they had, so he could play...that was sweet. Then they signed a top 5 fullback as a UDFA, Connor Neighbors and nicknamed him Tank. If the guy never plays again in the NFL that still might be my favorite nickname for a FB ever. 8% Eight curseword Percent of plays is what he played in 2015. They had this F position too- a high school split end type. WRs and RBs and TEs would shift presnap and wind up in the slot. The D wouldn't know who would be there and it would give their weak offense a mismatch ala Heimerdinger or Bellichick. Brilliant! Looked nice in preseason. The S that could cover Andrews couldn't keep up with Walker. The LB covering Walker couldn't handle Wright. Fowler was in this mix and...they scrapped that "F position offense" week one. I'm here finding things to love, falling for them- they just gotta do it and stop burning me.
If Mularkey is gone and they get an old soul coach that wants to use the FB- look out NFL. Fowler is a beast. It'll be like the Giants 8 years or so ago when they led the NFL in rushing. D's might stop em early but Henry and Fowler will beat em' up(like Ward and Jacobs) and tire em' out, where in the 4th Q they'll run all over the D. Andrews is a mean runner of his own. You saw it at times last year, but rarely. He can sub for either. Also look at the Cowboys. If Murray gets a huge hole from Fowler...
But now now, not with this staff. They have one of the most brilliant defensive minds ever and he works magic. I look forward to more magic in 2016 and hope Mariota is healthy for a new staff in 2017
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beef
Footballguy
i'm not feeling it, but i'm anxious to see what they do on offense. a mariota lead offense just doesn't seem like the best fit for a pounder rb who's not the best blocker and very limited in the receiving game.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
After a day to digest the landing spot, I'm warming to the possibilities. Rookie season might be hit or miss, but 2017 is something to be excited about.
True but someone will run with it- either an FF site pointing out he'll get tons of time or to detract from his coaching like he didn't have a clue how he'll use him...it'll come up again
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am not super excited about the 1400 yards and 7 TDs being divided between Murray and Henry. Plus, there is still the chance McCluster, Cobb, Andrews or Sankey get some level of work. It's not a very big pie to be sharing. Ofcourse part of the reason the team was so bad at running the ball was the poor RBs on the roster and Murray/Henry seem to have made a weakness of the Titans into a real strength. As bad as their running game was, the Titans still averaged 4.0 ypc which was better tha 12 other teams. So the issue beyond not being good at running the ball was that they just didn't run the ball very much. They were about 50 carries below the median NFL team. They had about 60 less offensive snaps than the median team. They scored about 65 points below the median NFL team. They had the same issue the year prior. Below average quality of running plays, low volume of running plays, low volume of scoring opps.
The following spots would have excited me more: Carolina, Seattle, Chicago, Philly, Washington, Giants, Colts, Browns, Lions, Dolphins. I think the Vikings would have been very interesting if thinking about a year or 2 in the future. So maybe we were both wrong. Maybe it's about a middle of the road destination for him.
“We’ve got some good football players on the team already,” Robinson said, “so I don’t know how many of them are going to go pencil in and be ‘the guy,’ but I could see them moving ahead of players on our football team if they come in and do what they’re supposed to do and compete and win those jobs…
mozzy84
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Has it even happened once in five years? Im dredging memories back to Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott to find a pair of RBs that were both fantasy relevant on the field at the same time, rather than spelling each other situationally.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm taking him at 1.2 in 14 team non ppr dynasty. Here's why.
First, I also own picks 5 and 6. I see the dropoff at rb as being much higher than at wr if I took a receiver at 1.2, especially in non ppr. That makes my situation different if not unique, so this won't apply to everyone.
Second, I love his talent. The sports science thing where he accelerated faster than anyone was cool, but his size/speed/acceleration is just not something we've seen. Lacy is a big back and Henry destroys him size wise. And he apparently can catch, he just wasn't asked to.
Third, the titans spent pick 45 on him. They had pick 3.1 if they wanted to wait for value. They had needs at other positions including wr. They have multiple picks next year and a high priced rb on their roster. They could easily have passed on Henry. The fact they took him means he was screaming value to him at pick 45 in a draft where teams didn't seem to like running backs at all. The gm is on his first year on the job and doesn't need to gamble - he was already getting kudos for trading for Murray on the cheap. This pick was not an accident. They wanted him badly enough to take him over what should have been obvious and natural objections. So I expect them to be fairly well committed to using him.
There are huge red flags. He's big. He doesn't cut on a dime. I can live with that. He had a huge workload in college last year. Not ideal. I can live with that too, though, just like Elliott owners aren't worried about his college usage. I'm not excited about the landing spot or the d1 competition, either. I'd rather not have to explain why I don't not like the guy I'm taking with a premium pick.
But I think he's a legitimate stud talent who has an opportunity to produce early. He should be a goal line machine. He's going to be the best player on their offense. I like that. Their qb is mobile but doesn't run in short tds. That should help him so much. If they want to, they can split him out as a move te. He's a special player. I can't see passing on the opportunity to get him to get a receiver I like slightly better than the one I'll get anyways.
First, I also own picks 5 and 6. I see the dropoff at rb as being much higher than at wr if I took a receiver at 1.2, especially in non ppr. That makes my situation different if not unique, so this won't apply to everyone.
Second, I love his talent. The sports science thing where he accelerated faster than anyone was cool, but his size/speed/acceleration is just not something we've seen. Lacy is a big back and Henry destroys him size wise. And he apparently can catch, he just wasn't asked to.
Third, the titans spent pick 45 on him. They had pick 3.1 if they wanted to wait for value. They had needs at other positions including wr. They have multiple picks next year and a high priced rb on their roster. They could easily have passed on Henry. The fact they took him means he was screaming value to him at pick 45 in a draft where teams didn't seem to like running backs at all. The gm is on his first year on the job and doesn't need to gamble - he was already getting kudos for trading for Murray on the cheap. This pick was not an accident. They wanted him badly enough to take him over what should have been obvious and natural objections. So I expect them to be fairly well committed to using him.
There are huge red flags. He's big. He doesn't cut on a dime. I can live with that. He had a huge workload in college last year. Not ideal. I can live with that too, though, just like Elliott owners aren't worried about his college usage. I'm not excited about the landing spot or the d1 competition, either. I'd rather not have to explain why I don't not like the guy I'm taking with a premium pick.
But I think he's a legitimate stud talent who has an opportunity to produce early. He should be a goal line machine. He's going to be the best player on their offense. I like that. Their qb is mobile but doesn't run in short tds. That should help him so much. If they want to, they can split him out as a move te. He's a special player. I can't see passing on the opportunity to get him to get a receiver I like slightly better than the one I'll get anyways.
shader
Footballguy
I should qualify, I'm talking about landing spots for Henry as a footballer and for dynasty.
Yeah probably not great for 2016 redraft.
Otis
Footballguy
Interesting.
Like you, I also have the 2 pick and 5 pick, along with some other good picks later.
You make a compelling case -- I also like his special talent, and the dropoff after him is huge. Frankly, I'm struggling to separate these WRs. I guess Doctson is the best choice, but he's got a crowded offense there. Treadwell could be the man right away. Coleman could be great. And there are others. I just have a hard time separating them.
I traded up for 2 in my dynasty draft because I have needs at WR and wanted the best WR available That said, I'm just not that obsessed with any of of these WRs. I may be much better off going Henry at 2 and then at 5 taking the best WR remaining--I assume that will be Coleman, though I suppose I would at this point slightly prefer Doctson or Treadwell.
Of course, there's the chance others picking after me are equally suspect about Henry, and so I end up getting my pick of the WR litter at 2 (probably Doctson, though Treadwell is awful close) and then Henry at 5. That may be the best of both worlds.
I've got a greater need at WR than at RB given the rest of my team, so for me I lean ever so slightly in favor of going WR at 2. But your strategy here is interesting and has me thinking.
Hopefully with camp and preseason a lot of this sorts itself out and the clear winners start to become more apparent.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think if you need WR you should take the WR you like the most out of the top 3 mentioned, as I think all 3 have WR 1 upside in FF.Interesting.
Like you, I also have the 2 pick and 5 pick, along with some other good picks later.
You make a compelling case -- I also like his special talent, and the dropoff after him is huge. Frankly, I'm struggling to separate these WRs. I guess Doctson is the best choice, but he's got a crowded offense there. Treadwell could be the man right away. Coleman could be great. And there are others. I just have a hard time separating them.
I traded up for 2 in my dynasty draft because I have needs at WR and wanted the best WR available That said, I'm just not that obsessed with any of of these WRs. I may be much better off going Henry at 2 and then at 5 taking the best WR remaining--I assume that will be Coleman, though I suppose I would at this point slightly prefer Doctson or Treadwell.
Of course, there's the chance others picking after me are equally suspect about Henry, and so I end up getting my pick of the WR litter at 2 (probably Doctson, though Treadwell is awful close) and then Henry at 5. That may be the best of both worlds.
I've got a greater need at WR than at RB given the rest of my team, so for me I lean ever so slightly in favor of going WR at 2. But your strategy here is interesting and has me thinking.
Hopefully with camp and preseason a lot of this sorts itself out and the clear winners start to become more apparent.
Then when it gets to pick 5. If Henry isn't there you get to add a second of these 3 WR. Improving your odds that at least one of them pans out for you and the chance that both of them will, thus solving your need at an important long term position.
If the other 2 WR are taken, oh well Henry will be there so draft him.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I was mostly referring to both. It's hard to look beyond a year or two with the NFL. I don't see any signs that make clearly point to the Titans changing their lot so I'm not going to forecast that.
shader
Footballguy
He's a great talent on a team with a great young QB. He has a GM that not only talks about wanting to play smashmouth football, but backed it up by spending a top ten pick on a run blocking RT and also added a G that is known for nasty run blocking as well.
What more do you want?
I think the people that think it's a poor landing spot must be Demarco Murray believers. I think Murray was a stopgap, nothing more.
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
I would grab Henry @ 1.02 and then your favorite WR @ 1.05
Spending 2 top five picks on WRs from this class may be I'll advised.
Can you deal the 1.02 for a 2017 1st + a late 1st in 2016 ?
Spending 2 top five picks on WRs from this class may be I'll advised.
Can you deal the 1.02 for a 2017 1st + a late 1st in 2016 ?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
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