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Josh Doctson or Corey Coleman? (1 Viewer)

Who do you like in Dynasty leagues, Corey Coleman or Josh Doctson?

  • Josh Doctson (Redskins)

    Votes: 53 49.1%

  • Corey Coleman (Browns)

    Votes: 55 50.9%
  • Total voters
    108
Doctson by a mile. Forgive me if I don't even see how this is up for debate...yet my Doctson vote tied the results at 1-1, so someone, I assume the OP, is already in the Coleman camp.

Coleman is already fighting a size and quickness battle vs coverage. that just got exponentially tougher at the NFL level. He has to learn to run routes, which is both a physical and mental exercise, and he's a body-catcher who hears footsteps over the middle, which compounds the drops problem. Speed to burn, which is the ultimate prize at the NFL level, and he can jump, and makes an effort to fight for the ball, Given his speed and open field quicks (as opposed to beating coverage quicks), I personally think it's going to take a Herculean leap on his part to be anything more than a punt returner at the NFL level. I think the Browns 'Browned' again - right position, wrong Player.

I think the Redskins could/should have made a more 'needs' based pick at 1.22, and I'm mildly annoyed by the Doctson selection, but not because of the Player. From a BPA standpoint, they mined some future gold with Doctson. Every flaw Doctson has can be improved by training and coaching. For example, he's 'slight', but has a frame that a S&C Coach can hang meat on. Issues with run-blocking are coachable. He's a technician - going into a situation with Desean Jackson/Pierre Garcon to mentor him, the route-running issues he has (stiffness, beating press corners off the line, crispness) can be coached/mentored.

I've waited for Cousins to take over this Team since RG3's disastrous return from injury, and I think he's legit. Robbed of his legs to cover a number of fundamental flaws, I don't think Griffin ever will be again, so from a QB standpoint, Doctson has Coleman beat as well...

...but what do I know?

 
I think that Cousins is the difference here. I rank the rookies Treadwell, Doctson, Coleman, Fuller.  Pretty comfortable in that ranking.  None are close to where I had Parker last year, more in line with Perriman.  

 
I've got Coleman only behind Cooper in last year's draft. Cooper was as close to a lick as you can get imo though. Coleman comes with risk but he flashes on tape and showed he's the type of athlete I like to draft. I'm not super worried about his landing spot either. It's more about targets than anything. He's going to get those in bunches in Cleveland. 

Cooper

Coleman

White

Parker 

Doctson 

 
nittanylion said:
Doctson by a mile. Forgive me if I don't even see how this is up for debate...yet my Doctson vote tied the results at 1-1, so someone, I assume the OP, is already in the Coleman camp.

Coleman is already fighting a size and quickness battle vs coverage. that just got exponentially tougher at the NFL level. He has to learn to run routes, which is both a physical and mental exercise, and he's a body-catcher who hears footsteps over the middle, which compounds the drops problem. Speed to burn, which is the ultimate prize at the NFL level, and he can jump, and makes an effort to fight for the ball, Given his speed and open field quicks (as opposed to beating coverage quicks), I personally think it's going to take a Herculean leap on his part to be anything more than a punt returner at the NFL level. I think the Browns 'Browned' again - right position, wrong Player.

I think the Redskins could/should have made a more 'needs' based pick at 1.22, and I'm mildly annoyed by the Doctson selection, but not because of the Player. From a BPA standpoint, they mined some future gold with Doctson. Every flaw Doctson has can be improved by training and coaching. For example, he's 'slight', but has a frame that a S&C Coach can hang meat on. Issues with run-blocking are coachable. He's a technician - going into a situation with Desean Jackson/Pierre Garcon to mentor him, the route-running issues he has (stiffness, beating press corners off the line, crispness) can be coached/mentored.

I've waited for Cousins to take over this Team since RG3's disastrous return from injury, and I think he's legit. Robbed of his legs to cover a number of fundamental flaws, I don't think Griffin ever will be again, so from a QB standpoint, Doctson has Coleman beat as well...

...but what do I know?
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I haven't voted yet.  I like some of each.  Lots of links about this out there, it's been talked about a lot.

 
http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesheadlines/2015/11/04/josh-doctson-vs-corey-coleman-best-wr-nation-reside-texas-case-tcu-baylor-stars

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/105408/big-12-mailbag-josh-doctson-vs-corey-coleman-and-best-traditions-in-the-big-12

http://nflspinzone.com/2016/04/26/cincinnati-bengals-corey-coleman-vs-josh-doctson/

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/4/27/11519700/projections-like-coleman-down-on-doctson

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/155212498/corey-coleman-josh-doctson-big-12-receivers

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/4/13/11352190/2016-nfl-draft-breakdown-corey-coleman-wide-receiver-baylor

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2621809-why-josh-doctson-should-be-the-first-receiver-taken-in-the-draft

http://campusinsiders.com/news/josh-doctson-corey-coleman-nfl-draft-stock-comparison-03-15-2016

 
I chose Doctson over Coleman in one devy league (can pick college players too) and took Coleman in another devy eague (Doctson already on a roster).  Players like Fournete, Mike Williams, and Chubb already on rosters in both leagues. 

 
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Choose Docson at 1.03 with Zeke and Treadwell off the board.  I could see myself taking Coleman if they switched teams.  

Sterling Sheppard went before Coleman in my league.  

 
Depends on where your team is at and how quickly you need that player to be an impact guy.

Colemans path to relevance is shorter, and his opps are gtd year one, he is also 2 years younger. 

Doctson has more prototypical size for an X guy. Is likely a better RZ weapon. But may have a year where his reps are lessened by djax and garcon, although i think he is gonna be a better player than both, it may take 2-3 years

 
For the poll, I'll say Coleman but I say that a little skeptical.

What worries me is that no one has said Shepard. After the tea leaves settle he should be the best one by a mile. Coleman is a Brown, Treadwell has Teddy, Doctson is old and Fuller cant catch. Shepard is the most polished and NFL ready according to people much smarter than any of us. After the NFL draft talent means little and situation and QB means everything. All are very talented and ranking talent over situation and most likely outcome is different.

I have 1.7 and was hoping to get him, now I do not think I have a chance according to the temperature of my league. We draft August 1st so by then I see no chance.

 
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WheelsUp said:
For the poll, I'll say Coleman but I say that a little skeptical.

What worries me is that no one has said Shepard. After the tea leaves settle he should be the best one by a mile. Coleman is a Brown, Treadwell has Teddy, Doctson is old and Fuller cant catch. Shepard is the most polished and NFL ready according to people much smarter than any of us. After the NFL draft talent means little and situation and QB means everything. All are very talented and ranking talent over situation and most likely outcome is different.

I have 1.7 and was hoping to get him, now I do not think I have a chance according to the temperature of my league. We draft August 1st so by then I see no chance.
Click to expand...
:lmao:  Doctson is 14 months older than Sheppard, at the ripe old age of 23

 
I don't know if Coleman being the best option on the Cleveland offense is necessarily a good thing especially if he ends up getting a quarterback carousel over the next 3 years.

 
I liked Doctson slightly more prior to the draft. Although I try to be objective about this as I can but my perspective is flavored a bit by who would be the best WR for the Vikings. For FF I like Coleman, Doctson, Treadwell as all the same tier. 

Post draft the Browns used a higher pick and chose Coleman. He has a clearer path to instant opportunity and just as much upside as the other two WR so I would take him first if all 3 were available.

The history of the Browns does worry me somewhat as far as bust risk goes. But not enough for it to matter.

Doctson is in the most friendly offense. So I could see him putting up better numbers in 2017 or 2018 because of that along with Hue Jackson running the ball a lot.

In redraft I would take Coleman over all of the other rookie WR.

 
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It comes down to one thing, targets.

Coleman will be the target monster here, among these 2 and it won't be close.

 
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Donnybrook said:
I don't know if Coleman being the best option on the Cleveland offense is necessarily a good thing especially if he ends up getting a quarterback carousel over the next 3 years.
Click to expand...
hopkins has done ok

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
In year one. Everything could flip after that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the target argument for dynasty leagues would be much stronger if Jackson/Garcon weren't both in expiring deals. Add to that the injury history of Reed and the fact Crowder is a complimentary piece...... and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Doctson ended up being the #1 weapon in a much more potent offense in 2017.

 
The thing I really like about coleman is that he's capable of playing like a big guy.   Clearly he's got good speed and he's got great quickness,  but the little guys who can catch touchdowns can become superstars.   He's going to get all the targets he can handle right away and they will design pass plays for him and the thing he does well from day one.   Yeah, it's the Browns, but let's not forget how good the jaguars receivers looked last year because they had a competent qb throwing to good receivers from behind.   

I like doctson, too,  but give me coleman. 

 
Run It Up said:
Lol, what?
Click to expand...
Are you correcting me on spelling?

(I'm on a phone pal, ish happens.)

Were you actually laughing out loud or just lol'ing?

I see the bolded. Yes, Colman is the more explosive player, also has a higher ceiling.

i don't care if you disagree. But for the sake of the thread, tell me why DoctSON had the higher ceiling?

 
Im curious how you base him having a higher ceiling and being more explosive than the clearly more explosive player in Doctson.

Are you talking about week 1? Are you talking about this year? Either way idk how you can think that. Coleman will get more targets this year, but I'm not even confident he gets more TDs than Doctson this year.

 
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It's the Coleman drops that I'm choosing Doctson. Granted this can be corrected but he drops too many to choose over Doctson but I would choose him over any other WR in this draft.

Tex

 
Wait you think doctson is more explosive?  Doctson's better in a lot of ways but I wouldn't say explosiveness is one of them

 
2 months ago, I would have said Doctson and it isn't even close.  Now I think it's relatively close but I still prefer Doctson.  If someone could tell me who has more desire to be great I'll take that one.  

 
Zyphros said:
2 months ago, I would have said Doctson and it isn't even close.  Now I think it's relatively close but I still prefer Doctson.  If someone could tell me who has more desire to be great I'll take that one.  
Click to expand...
Based on what the Redskins GM (McCloughan) values in his players, and compared with the mystery of the Browns analytics based draft plan...I'd bet it's Doctson.

 
bostonfred said:
Wait you think doctson is more explosive?  Doctson's better in a lot of ways but I wouldn't say explosiveness is one of them
Click to expand...
I guess I would need to know what that means before I could make a response with any depth.

Colemans short area quickness might be better, but hes 4 inches shorter, not willing to even give him that. Colemans got some ups, not as good as Doctson but maybe it looks more impressive for a shorter guy, idk.

 
Football Playmaker Score 2016 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/playmaker-score-2016


Corey Coleman, Baylor


Playmaker Projection: 820 Yards
Playmaker Rating: 99.8%

Corey Coleman has a monster projection. As a junior, Coleman gained 1,363 receiving yards and caught an eye-popping 20 touchdowns. Because Baylor only passed the ball 389 times in 2016, Coleman scored a touchdown on 5.1 percent of Baylor's passes. That's an incredible ratio, which has only been topped by four elite college players: Randy Moss, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, and Larry Fitzgerald. Coleman also tested out well physically, posting a position-best 40.5-inch vertical jump at the NFL combine.

Notwithstanding these numbers, there are certainly legitimate concerns regarding Coleman's ability to transition to the NFL level. Coleman played in Art Briles' run-first offense at Baylor, which saw Coleman mostly run simple go, in, and hitch patterns. In that regard, Coleman is potentially similar to Stephen Hill. Hill was highly regarded by Playmaker Score, but he was a tremendous bust.

There are reasons to believe that Coleman could succeed where Hill failed. First, Hill had relatively unimpressive aggregate statistics. Hill caught 28 passes for 820 yards and five touchdowns in his best season at Georgia Tech. However, he had great rate statistics because Georgia Tech attempted only 167 passes that year. Coleman, on the other hand, caught 74 passes for 1,363 yards and 20 touchdowns -- numbers that look good even before you adjust for team pass attempts. Moreover, Coleman's offense was run-heavy, but not to the same extreme as Hill's: Baylor passed 389 times in 2015.

Indeed, historically, wide receiver prospects from run-heavy offenses have been no less successful than those from more balanced offenses. The same offense that produced Hill also produced Demaryius Thomas, who has been quite good. Similarly, Marvin Harrison hailed from a run-heavy offense than only passed 210 times.

Another tempting comparison involves Kendall Wright, a former Baylor wide receiver and first-round pick. The comparison only goes so far, however. Wright, unlike Coleman, entered the draft as a senior, and he did not hit 1,000 yards in a season during any of his first three years. Unlike Wright, Coleman was not a one-hit wonder -- he posted strong numbers as a sophomore too -- and his touchdown numbers (which are more predictive of success than yardage totals) were much better than Wright's. Moreover, even if we could make a good comparison between Coleman and Wright, that comparison itself would not be particularly helpful given Wright's career to date. Nobody will confuse Wright with Odell Beckham Jr., but he has been far from an out-and-out bust. Wright's time in the NFL has been marred by injuries and shaky quarterback play on a bad team, and he has still managed to put up some decent receiving numbers.

The bottom line is that you could fairly argue that Coleman is the second coming of Jerry Rice, another Stephen Hill, or anything in between. There is simply no way to quantify the amount, if any, that Baylor's offense contributed to Coleman's ridiculous numbers. Although Coleman's Playmaker Projection is higher than Amari Cooper's projection last year, Coleman is certainly a much riskier prospect. That said, mid-first-round picks bust all the time, and a team in need of a wide receiver could do a lot worse than to select a player whose numbers suggest potential greatness.

Corey Coleman could be a ready-made fantasy star by Matt Harmon

http://www.nfl.com/fantasyfootball/story/0ap3000000646290/article/corey-coleman-could-be-a-readymade-fantasy-star

 
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mr roboto said:
According to this ranking of combine, Dictson and Coleman are dead even in athleticism... SPARQ and NFL percentile ranks are identical.  Both rank in the top 10% of NFL players  

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/wr/
Click to expand...
Year and half younger is pretty significant. I would have said the height difference was a big deal a year or two ago but with the rule changes in the NFL size isn't as big of a deal now. Things are changing. Plus Coleman plays big. He's pretty physical. Jumps out of the gym. They're both great prospects though. Coleman will be half way through his 2 year in the NFL when he's Doctson's age.

 
Had the 1.02 and 1.04, traded up from the 1.04 to the 1.03 to get both Treadwell and Doctson, left Coleman on the board.

 
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