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what would you do? (1 Viewer)

msudaisy26

msudaisy26

Footballguy
I went to my nephew's baseball tournament this past Saturday. He is on a travel team and this is the only time they were actually close. 

Their first game was at noon and the second game that day was at 6. They won the first game in 3 innings because they were up by so much. So we had like 4 hours between games. So all my in-laws, my brother in-laws brother and a friend of my sister in law all went out to eat, 8 total adults. 

We are finishing up the meal and someone asked my brother in-law if he was going to coach the team again next year, this is his 1st year coaching. He brought up he wants to cut 2 of the kids that have bad attitudes/work ethic, but the main coach of the whole travel baseball program has told him that he can't cut one of he kids. The main coach told my brother in-law that this kid has been in his program for 4 years now and his father committed suicide 2 years ago and that this kids stays on the team no matter what. The main coach also explained to my brother in-law that the mother of this kid understands he needs to get better if he wants to play more and she won't cause a problem. 

I am curious what everyone thinks. We were divided at dinner. 4 liked that the kid got to stay on the team, 4 didn't like it. 2 guys and 2 girls on each side. What side are you on?

 
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I think it's nice he is on the team and the coaches should help be there for him.  My guess is that the attitude is tied to the situation and that this could be a good outlet to get through it.  Part of playing a sport is the camaraderie and friendships that can develop in a good team atmosphere - especially a travel ball team if all the parents are sane.  Part of being a coach is mentoring the kids in more than just the sport to help them grow up and mature to be upstanding people in this world.  You didn't mention the age group but regardless it's an opportunity to really help this kid in a very tough situation.

I would have no issue with keeping this kid around and I would try and talk to him more to help him with his attitude and to put his frustrations into becoming better as a way to get away for a bit. 

 
He doesn't hustle, doesn't try hard at practice and isn't really a good cheerleader from the bench. One of the kids hit a home run and all the kids left the dugout to congratulate the kid that homered except the this kid. They are all 10. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
He doesn't hustle, doesn't try hard at practice and isn't really a good cheerleader from the bench. One of the kids hit a home run and all the kids left the dugout to congratulate the kid that homered except the this kid. They are all 10. 
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The kids has issues, don't compound them.

 
msudaisy26 said:
He doesn't hustle, doesn't try hard at practice and isn't really a good cheerleader from the bench. One of the kids hit a home run and all the kids left the dugout to congratulate the kid that homered except the this kid. They are all 10. 
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Maybe the kid doesn't want to play if the sport reminds him too much of his dad and it becomes a negative more than a positive.  Seems like a good opportunity to talk to the mom a bit about the situation and explain the lack of hustle and team support to see if there is a way things could be improved.  Ask the kid if he likes playing and wants to play.  I would suggest starting with communication and going down the road that leads to.

 
Baseball for ten year olds is about teaching life lessons, not just hitting baseballs.  You want to raise kids who carry each other when the chips are down, you keep the kid.  You want to raise kids who will win at any cost, cut him.

Some (virtually all) things are more important than a 10-year-old baseball player's lack of hustle.

 
Gally said:
Maybe the kid doesn't want to play if the sport reminds him too much of his dad and it becomes a negative more than a positive.  Seems like a good opportunity to talk to the mom a bit about the situation and explain the lack of hustle and team support to see if there is a way things could be improved.  Ask the kid if he likes playing and wants to play.  I would suggest starting with communication and going down the road that leads to.
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He does want to play, he has said that to his mom and coaches. 

 
 Dad has committed suicide?  Other related issues you probably don't even know about.  10 years old, yeah, I think that team should be playing FOR that kid.

 
My husband, myself, my mother in-law, and my brother in-laws brother all said that some things are more important than the game. 

 
tonydead said:
 Dad has committed suicide?  Other related issues you probably don't even know about.  10 years old, yeah, I think that team should be playing FOR that kid.
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A lot of these kids didn't know the kid before this happened. He has 4 years with this travel team. Most of them are 1st timers this year. 

 
In general I find travel leagues to not really be all that much better than any other. There are no elite 10 year olds, they're just aren't. There may be some kids a little more advanced than the other kids but in the vast overwhelming majority of cases those kids come back to the pack or the pack catches them I guess. So I really put little value in it as I have seen the business side of it and it is not pretty. Lots of guys quitting jobs to run travel leagues collecting fees. Shady even in many cases.

So I would have no problem keeping the kid on the team.

 
msudaisy26 said:
He does want to play, he has said that to his mom and coaches. 
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My guess he is doing this for a more attention.  This is a very tough situation but it could be a really good opportunity to help this kid.  The coaches need to find a way to connect with him and then encourage his development.  A calm sit down with the kid off to the side to just talk may help get buy in from the kid to hustle and become more engaged.  I coach a 10 yr old travel team so I can understand the frustration of the attitude and lack of hustle.  But It is a great opportunity to really help this kid.  The key to coaching is figuring out what works for each kid and cultivate those things to get them to the best of their abilities.  This includes their abilities outside of the game.

If the attitude is very bad it might be a good time to sit with the other parents and let them know that this kid is going through a tough time and that the team needs to help him and encourage him.  If the parents are understanding about life and the big picture you should have no issue with this.  If the parents only care about themselves and their own kid (which is a good possibility) then difficult times will happen with them regardless of all other situations. 

 
NCCommish said:
In general I find travel leagues to not really be all that much better than any other. There are no elite 10 year olds, they're just aren't. There may be some kids a little more advanced than the other kids but in the vast overwhelming majority of cases those kids come back to the pack or the pack catches them I guess. So I really put little value in it as I have seen the business side of it and it is not pretty. Lots of guys quitting jobs to run travel leagues collecting fees. Shady even in many cases.

So I would have no problem keeping the kid on the team.
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It is funny you say that, on a side not my husband and father in-law got into a heated argument about it being shady and the fact that they have tryouts in like 2 weeks. One was arguing that they need to lock their kids up for next year and the other was saying they are 10, they might not even want to play baseball next year, or there might be a kid that didn't try out and then gets good and now you don't have a spot for him or you have to cut a 10 year old because you don't have enough roster spots for the new guy and the guy that already made it through the tryouts.

 
tonydead said:
I don't see how that matters at all.
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How can the other kids play for him? They have no idea how the kid was before this happened, they have no idea if he was really good and just can't get into anymore, some of the probably don't even know what happened.

 
Cut him for his own long term health and here is why...my younger brother was forced to play sports with me as a kid, he was more of a visual artist type. 

They stopped making him play and my brother explored the arts more. He now makes more money than anyone in the family practically and takes good care of himself and family, works for the VA in DC so things have a way of working out. 

Cut him and free him from the hell he is enduring by being on the team, he doesn't want to be there. If he is encouraged to choose and discovers something else he likes then other issues some are using to keep him on the team might just go away and he will become a stronger person for it. 

He should be told in plain language though why he is being encouraged to explore other hobbies and sports and such, don't tell him he did anything wrong just that you feel he might be happier participating in something else for now. He can always come back to baseball. 

 
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msudaisy26 said:
It is funny you say that, on a side not my husband and father in-law got into a heated argument about it being shady and the fact that they have tryouts in like 2 weeks. One was arguing that they need to lock their kids up for next year and the other was saying they are 10, they might not even want to play baseball next year, or there might be a kid that didn't try out and then gets good and now you don't have a spot for him or you have to cut a 10 year old because you don't have enough roster spots for the new guy and the guy that already made it through the tryouts.
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Travel leagues are burnout machines. They burn out kids and parents. I can't tell you the number of kids I have seen just turn away from the sport altogether because it became a job and do you know how much we spend every weekend? ordeal. Seriously folks no one gets a full ride for baseball. No one. It isn't happening. They simply don't exist. You don't have to be on a travel team to get on a college baseball team. In many cases the coaching is not one iota better in travel leagues than a casual rec league. And you just throw away a ton of life to go to yet another tournament no one will give a crap about or even remember. Not a fan.

 
NCCommish said:
Travel leagues are burnout machines. They burn out kids and parents. I can't tell you the number of kids I have seen just turn away from the sport altogether because it became a job and do you know how much we spend every weekend? ordeal. Seriously folks no one gets a full ride for baseball. No one. It isn't happening. They simply don't exist. You don't have to be on a travel team to get on a college baseball team. In many cases the coaching is not one iota better in travel leagues than a casual rec league. And you just throw away a ton of life to go to yet another tournament no one will give a crap about or even remember. Not a fan.
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This part is very true, my brother in-law was an assistant coach last year and now a head coach this year. He was a football and basketball kid he never even played t-ball. He even told the main coach that he never played ball and the coach didn't really care.

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
Cut him for his own long term health and here is why...my younger brother was forced to play sports with me as a kid, he was more of a visual artist type. 

They stopped making him play and my brother explored the arts more. He now makes more money than anyone in the family practically and takes good care of himself and family, works for the VA in DC so things have a way of working out. 

Cut him and free him from the hell he is enduring by being on the team, he doesn't want to be there. If he is encouraged to choose and discovers something else he likes then other issues some are using to keep him on the team might just go away and he will become a stronger person for it. 

He should be told in plain language though why he is being encouraged to explore other hobbies and sports and such, don't tell him he did anything wrong just that you feel he might be happier participating in something else for now. He can always come back to baseball. 
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msudaisy26 said:
He does want to play, he has said that to his mom and coaches. 
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msudaisy26 said:
This part is very true, my brother in-law was an assistant coach last year and now a head coach this year. He was a football and basketball kid he never even played t-ball.
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Right you pay all this money and you give up all this time so your kid can play on an "elite" travel team. And the coach never played the game in college or high school or the minors or the majors. He's just a guy. Now I am sure your brother is a great guy and does the best he can teaching the game. But really is he an elite trainer of tomorrows budding baseball superstar?

 
NCCommish said:
Travel leagues are burnout machines. They burn out kids and parents. I can't tell you the number of kids I have seen just turn away from the sport altogether because it became a job and do you know how much we spend every weekend? ordeal. Seriously folks no one gets a full ride for baseball. No one. It isn't happening. They simply don't exist. You don't have to be on a travel team to get on a college baseball team. In many cases the coaching is not one iota better in travel leagues than a casual rec league. And you just throw away a ton of life to go to yet another tournament no one will give a crap about or even remember. Not a fan.
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They can be but they don't have to be (burnout machines).  I run a travel ball team for 10 year olds because in my area the local little league is terrible and we have a good group of 10 year olds that want to develop their skills.  We do not play 12 months a year and in fact play less weekends then the little league did.  We play in two tournaments a month so we have two weekends off a month.  We also start after the basketball season ends and end before soccer/football starts.  Overall we play about 50 games from March through the middle of August while practicing on average 2-3 times a week.

The beauty of the travel ball is there are tournaments every weekend (in California) so you can play as much or as little as you want.  You can also travel for weekend tournaments or go to tournaments within driving distance.  The key is finding like minded parents and kids that get along to make the time enjoyable while still improving your skills. 

You are correct that there are bad coaches and people that try and take advantage of those that don't know any better to make a lot of money.  Do your due diligence and find a coach/organization that you trust and believe in and the experience can be very rewarding.  Not all travel ball is bad.

 
Gally said:
They can be but they don't have to be (burnout machines).  I run a travel ball team for 10 year olds because in my area the local little league is terrible and we have a good group of 10 year olds that want to develop their skills.  We do not play 12 months a year and in fact play less weekends then the little league did.  We play in two tournaments a month so we have two weekends off a month.  We also start after the basketball season ends and end before soccer/football starts.  Overall we play about 50 games from March through the middle of August while practicing on average 2-3 times a week.

The beauty of the travel ball is there are tournaments every weekend (in California) so you can play as much or as little as you want.  You can also travel for weekend tournaments or go to tournaments within driving distance.  The key is finding like minded parents and kids that get along to make the time enjoyable while still improving your skills. 

You are correct that there are bad coaches and people that try and take advantage of those that don't know any better to make a lot of money.  Do your due diligence and find a coach/organization that you trust and believe in and the experience can be very rewarding.  Not all travel ball is bad.
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Well I would call your program the exception to the rule. Not at all what I have seen locally over the years. But hey seems like you guys are trying not to overdo it. I think that's great.

 
Sorry DL, good point but I would offer that he might not really want to play. He might just be saying that. I would encourage other activities and see if he naturally takes to something more...basic example is he starts playing D&D with a couple kids and stops playing baseball, it happens. I think this child might be best served not being in large groups or teams, perhaps something where the focus is on him like maybe golf or tennis where he isn't reliant on a team, that concept might be hard after his dad left via suicide, he might have some trust issues so an activity where he needs only trust himself might be better for now. 

 
Mom needs to be made aware of the situation (sorry, skimmed thread and didn't see anything related to her knowing about the situation), who needs to pass this information on to the kid's therapist... assuming they're doing the right thing by providing him with therapy.

 
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NCCommish said:
Right you pay all this money and you give up all this time so your kid can play on an "elite" travel team. And the coach never played the game in college or high school or the minors or the majors. He's just a guy. Now I am sure your brother is a great guy and does the best he can teaching the game. But really is he an elite trainer of tomorrows budding baseball superstar?
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That is why you research and see the quality and attitude of the coaches and other parents before deciding what to do.  It is just like everything in life.  There are good and bad and you have to do the work to find the good. 

Travel ball gives an opportunity for kids that want more instruction/competition to get that but it isn't for everyone.  Do the research before committing to anything and see how practices are run and find out the background of the coaches and their philosophy before giving up a ton of money.  There are bad organizations but there are also good ones.

 
Is travel baseball different than travel soccer?  You had to play travel soccer if you wanted to be good.   The town league was pretty terrible and its not much better once you get to  middle school.  We played year round, but it was fun b/c we won a lot which was cool.

 
nirad3 said:
Mom needs to be made aware of the situation (sorry, skimmed thread and didn't see anything related to her knowing about the situation), who needs to pass this information on to the kid's therapist... assuming they're doing the right thing by providing him with therapy.
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She knows and they have talked to the kid about it and he says he wants to play and he  is trying his best. My brother in-law thinks it is something to do with being at the fields and the kid is probably daydreaming that his dad is there watching him and only half paying attention to the game. 

 
These kids are playing these games for free and you're worried about winning a dumb game? There are bigger tragedies in life than not winning a game such as what has happened to this kid. How insensitive and someone (OP) be to put winning a game when the kid has gone through things not many, fortunately, do go through. Grow up.

 
Gally said:
I think it's nice he is on the team and the coaches should help be there for him.  My guess is that the attitude is tied to the situation and that this could be a good outlet to get through it.  Part of playing a sport is the camaraderie and friendships that can develop in a good team atmosphere - especially a travel ball team if all the parents are sane.  Part of being a coach is mentoring the kids in more than just the sport to help them grow up and mature to be upstanding people in this world.  You didn't mention the age group but regardless it's an opportunity to really help this kid in a very tough situation.

I would have no issue with keeping this kid around and I would try and talk to him more to help him with his attitude and to put his frustrations into becoming better as a way to get away for a bit. 




 
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This.  

 
When did this happen with his dad? He's been on the team for four years so if some kids don't know, did it happen before then? 

If it happened when he was six or even younger, I doubt going to the field is brining about some sort of walk down memory lane at the age of ten. That was a lifetime ago for him. Now, I'm not suggesting it doesn't affect how he is acting, it very well could, but I doubt he knows about it. Probably subconscious....if at all related. Sitting on the bench while the team is going to the plate to congratulate a teammate is not "trying best he can". 

Either way, you surely don't cut him. I wonder if he acts this way off the field? 

 
msudaisy26 said:
It is funny you say that, on a side not my husband and father in-law got into a heated argument about it being shady and the fact that they have tryouts in like 2 weeks. One was arguing that they need to lock their kids up for next year and the other was saying they are 10, they might not even want to play baseball next year, or there might be a kid that didn't try out and then gets good and now you don't have a spot for him or you have to cut a 10 year old because you don't have enough roster spots for the new guy and the guy that already made it through the tryouts.
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Doing the right thing by this kid is gonna be alot more rewarding after the coaching is done and the kids are grown than the regret of missing out on a better ball player because you had no room for him

 
Cjw_55106 said:
When did this happen with his dad? He's been on the team for four years so if some kids don't know, did it happen before then? 

If it happened when he was six or even younger, I doubt going to the field is brining about some sort of walk down memory lane at the age of ten. That was a lifetime ago for him. Now, I'm not suggesting it doesn't affect how he is acting, it very well could, but I doubt he knows about it. Probably subconscious....if at all related. Sitting on the bench while the team is going to the plate to congratulate a teammate is not "trying best he can". 

Either way, you surely don't cut him. I wonder if he acts this way off the field? 
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It happened like 2 or 2.5 years ago, a lot of these kids are 1st year kids on this team or 2nd year. There are only like 3 kids that have been there all 4 years. The not going to home plate after the homerun thing was just what I noticed, but those are literally the only 2 games I went to all season.

 
I don't have time to read the whole thread now.  Based on limited info in the OP, I say let him play.

 
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All depends on what the kids WAR, OPS+ and BAbip are versus the others on the team.  We're competing for hardware here, not participation trophies, Hillary.

 
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msudaisy26 said:
It is funny you say that, on a side not my husband and father in-law got into a heated argument about it being shady and the fact that they have tryouts in like 2 weeks. One was arguing that they need to lock their kids up for next year and the other was saying they are 10, they might not even want to play baseball next year, or there might be a kid that didn't try out and then gets good and now you don't have a spot for him or you have to cut a 10 year old because you don't have enough roster spots for the new guy and the guy that already made it through the tryouts.
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If this is a traveling program where the kids have to tryout and make the team, its not right to keep this kid at the expense of other kids who are more qualified based on the tryout criteria. Yeah, I know...they're 10. Still, if they're going to have traveling teams with tryouts for that age group, they gotta run them fairly. My heart goes out to him and his family but its not right to keep him over someone else because of what happened with the father. Further, they are doing him a disservice if they treat him different than other kids based on what his father did, IMO.  Treat him with warmth and compassion but do not treat him different.

ETA If I was BIL, I would quit coaching for this organization. I wouldn't coach for a director who told me who I had to keep/cut.

 
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