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A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
I find this comparison offensive. I really do.

We don't know what kind of President Trump will be. He may be a good one; I hope he is. But during his campaign he expressed racism, bigotry, and xenophobia in a manner that was disgraceful and unprecedented. Obama never did anything close to that (neither has any previous modern candidate for that matter.) Regardless of what kind of President Trump turns out to be, his campaign for the office deserves to be condemned. I don't care that he won, it still deserves condemnation.
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As for unprecedented, well I do remember George Wallace, of course you could be referring to the two major parties.  We have also had some Senators and Congressmen who were real pieces of work, but I take your point.

 
Godsbrother said:
Koya it isn't for me to say but I'll say it anyway:  I think you are over-reacting.   A Godparent is largely an honorary title that has little or no responsibilities/duties.  

Secondly, just because someone voted for a candidate doesn't mean they support all that person stands for (and do we really know where Trump stands on anything at this point?).     Let's face it:  there were NO good candidates in this election -- even the thirdparty candidates were severely  flawed.

If you considered this couple to be good people but changed your opinion merely because they voted for Trump then I think you need to look at what kind of person you are before casting stones at others.
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This. I mean, have you even talked to him about it? Maybe go through and discuss with him why he voted Trump? You seem to making an awful lot of assumptions about your friend without talking to him (unless you have since GB posted this).

If he's explains his reasoning - even if it's "not Hillary" - I'm of the opinion that it's not worth losing a friendship over. Your selection of Godparents is up to you, but to cut him out of your life for a "wrong" choice on election day is callous and shallow IMO.

 
One thing that does frighten me a little in all of this - so much focus is on the racism, xenophobia and misogynism that I'm worried we are missing the bigger issue - climate change.  Ebell being appointed is bad news - possibly worse than Bannon.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
The Commish said:
Is there a manner that isn't disgraceful?  
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Willie Horton commercials, Super predators, bring them to heel, etc.

Most of America doesn't get upset if the racism & bigotry is just implied
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Actually, this is an excellent point.  I frequently have to pull myself out of my own POV.  What is disturbing to me isn't always disturbing to others and you make a great point here.  The examples you mentioned here were equally disturbing to me as the rhetoric coming out of Donald's mouth.  I forget how others dismissed them though.  The wrapping/presentation does matter to some I guess, which is unfortunate.  

 
AAABatteries said:
One thing that does frighten me a little in all of this - so much focus is on the racism, xenophobia and misogynism that I'm worried we are missing the bigger issue - climate change.  Ebell being appointed is bad news - possibly worse than Bannon.
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I'm not sure climate change matters much if the world is going to end in the next four years anyway.

 
The Commish said:
Actually, this is an excellent point.  I frequently have to pull myself out of my own POV.  What is disturbing to me isn't always disturbing to others and you make a great point here.  The examples you mentioned here were equally disturbing to me as the rhetoric coming out of Donald's mouth.  I forget how others dismissed them though.  The wrapping/presentation does matter to some I guess, which is unfortunate.  
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Absolutely.  Donald is a master marketer.  A true master.  It's all in the presentation.  Hillary came off as a total phony.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I'm not sure climate change matters much if the world is going to end in the next four years anyway.
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The climate is going to change anyway.  The biggest issue is obviously overpopulation.  Slowing it down does very little for anyone who is alive right now.  Humans are going to snuff themselves out at some point either through nukes or pollution.  It isn't a matter of if, but when.  Mathematical certainty.  

 
pizzatyme said:
What about the Generals and ICEish endorsements?
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Clinton had more military endorsements, which was stunning considering that the military usually leans heavily to the GOP.  Mitt Romney had over 500 military endorsements, Trump had less than 100 and fewer than Clinton.  Link

The ICE endorsement was from a union, not the agency (which Trump lied about all the time, never bothering to correct himself or respond to questions about the lie).  Law enforcement unions like Trump- or probably more accurately, they love Giuliani.  He's always been pro-police and anti-protestors, civil liberties, etc.  Hardly a surprise.

If that's the best you've got ...

 
Jrodicus said:
I genuinely am sorry that you are fearful of the situation. 

I'm not going to speak for Andy, but to some of us, the extreme fear some are expressing now is akin to fear that others were expressing when Obama was elected - it just seems unfounded.  There were some points in your OP that I agree with, but there were others that make me believe you have been watching a bit too much CNN.

The sun will still rise tomorrow.
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Except when Obama was running there wasn't a huge number of Democratic national security officials warning that his election would be an epic disaster that would endanger national security, as happened with Trump and GOP national security officials.  When Obama was running the Clintons, Carters, Gores and all of their chiefs of staff- the people who understand the duties and responsibilities of the presidency- supported him instead of avoiding him, voting for his opponent or in some cases campaigned against him, as former GOP presidents and chiefs of staff did with Trump.

It is mind-boggling that people seem to have missed this or ignored it during the campaign.  This is not a normal situation, and Trump is not a normal president. Comparing it to anything else that's happened in American political history is silly.  I'm not saying that's good or bad- my feelings on that are already well known.  I'm just saying stop with the comparisons to previous elections and the public's reaction to them. This is totally different and anyone who's been paying the slightest bit of attention should know it.

 
Sabertooth said:
The climate is going to change anyway.  The biggest issue is obviously overpopulation.  Slowing it down does very little for anyone who is alive right now.  Humans are going to snuff themselves out at some point either through nukes or pollution.  It isn't a matter of if, but when.  Mathematical certainty.  
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The Malthusians strike again!!!

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I would just like to make clear that I do think Trump is awful and I'm disgusted that he's the President of the United States.

Boy am I glad we have a constitutional federal republic instead of a monarchy or dictatorship. 
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I would take a lot more comfort in this if GOP congressional leaders had shown some backbone and conviction during the election season instead of condemning him when it became clear that he's a serial sexual assaulter of women, but then backing off those condemnations as soon as it clear he might win.  Or perhaps more importantly, if they'd refused to endorse him after his racist attacks against a federal judge. Not exactly the sort of things that inspire confidence in the safeguards of the Constitutional framework

 
AAABatteries said:
One thing that does frighten me a little in all of this - so much focus is on the racism, xenophobia and misogynism that I'm worried we are missing the bigger issue - climate change.  Ebell being appointed is bad news - possibly worse than Bannon.
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"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

 
TobiasFunke said:
I would take a lot more comfort in this if GOP congressional leaders had shown some backbone and conviction during the election season instead of condemning him when it became clear that he's a serial sexual assaulter of women, but then backing off those condemnations as soon as it clear he might win.  Or perhaps more importantly, if they'd refused to endorse him after his racist attacks against a federal judge. Not exactly the sort of things that inspire confidence in the safeguards of the Constitutional framework
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I'm not a huge news consumer so I'm really asking...is the first bolded really "clear"? From what I can tell he talks a big (albeit sick) game but has he ever actually been charged with sexual assault or even been credibly accused?

They should have dropped the hammer on the second bolded line. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Except when Obama was running there wasn't a huge number of Democratic national security officials warning that his election would be an epic disaster that would endanger national security, as happened with Trump and GOP national security officials.  When Obama was running the Clintons, Carters, Gores and all of their chiefs of staff- the people who understand the duties and responsibilities of the presidency- supported him instead of avoiding him, voting for his opponent or in some cases campaigned against him, as former GOP presidents and chiefs of staff did with Trump.

It is mind-boggling that people seem to have missed this or ignored it during the campaign.  This is not a normal situation, and Trump is not a normal president. Comparing it to anything else that's happened in American political history is silly.  I'm not saying that's good or bad- my feelings on that are already well known.  I'm just saying stop with the comparisons to previous elections and the public's reaction to them. This is totally different and anyone who's been paying the slightest bit of attention should know it.
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You're right - I never saw Obama compared to Hitler. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I would take a lot more comfort in this if GOP congressional leaders had shown some backbone and conviction during the election season instead of condemning him when it became clear that he's a serial sexual assaulter of women, but then backing off those condemnations as soon as it clear he might win.  Or perhaps more importantly, if they'd refused to endorse him after his racist attacks against a federal judge. Not exactly the sort of things that inspire confidence in the safeguards of the Constitutional framework
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Andy Dufresne said:
I'm not a huge news consumer so I'm really asking...is the first bolded really "clear"? From what I can tell he talks a big (albeit sick) game but has he ever actually been charged with sexual assault or even been credibly accused?

They should have dropped the hammer on the second bolded line. 
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And yet he beat HRC.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm not a huge news consumer so I'm really asking...is the first bolded really "clear"? From what I can tell he talks a big (albeit sick) game but has he ever actually been charged with sexual assault or even been credibly accused?

They should have dropped the hammer on the second bolded line. 
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Here are the 15 public allegations of sexual assault against Trump, along with the reports that he barged in on naked pageant contestants.  Both types of allegations seem to match Trump's generic descriptions of his behavior in the Access Hollywood tape and in conversations with Howard Stern.  You can judge their clarity for yourself.

Honestly, I think we can endure and hopefully undo whatever domestic disasters Trump brings about.  It'll be ugly- among other things, I assume the deficit will balloon and there will be larger and more destructive race riots, but we've endured stuff like that before. It's the foreign affairs/national security stuff that really concerns me, and there are far fewer Constitutional checks on a president in that sphere. 

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Here are the 15 public allegations of sexual assault against Trump, along with the reports that he barged in on naked pageant contestants.  Both types of allegations seem to match Trump's generic descriptions of his behavior in the Access Hollywood tape and in conversations with Howard Stern.  You can just their clarity for yourself.

Honestly though, I think we can endure and hopefully undo whatever domestic disasters Trump brings about.  It'll be ugly- among other things, I assume the deficit will balloon and there will be larger and more destructive race riots, but we've endured stuff like that before. It's the foreign affairs/national security stuff that really concerns me, and there are far fewer Constitutional checks on a president in that sphere. 
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100% with you here. Diplomatic isn't a word anyone would use to describe Trump, methinks.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Here are the 15 public allegations of sexual assault against Trump, along with the reports that he barged in on naked pageant contestants.  Both types of allegations seem to match Trump's generic descriptions of his behavior in the Access Hollywood tape and in conversations with Howard Stern.  You can judge their clarity for yourself.

Honestly though, I think we can endure and hopefully undo whatever domestic disasters Trump brings about.  It'll be ugly- among other things, I assume the deficit will balloon and there will be larger and more destructive race riots, but we've endured stuff like that before. It's the foreign affairs/national security stuff that really concerns me, and there are far fewer Constitutional checks on a president in that sphere. 
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It is to me a certainty that our debt will increase.  Regardless of campaign rhetoric or party platforms neither party has demonstrated that having their party in charge of the executive branch can truly restrain congresses hunger to outspend our available monies.

As for foreign affairs, we have elected real neophytes before.  That said, even those neophytes had the common sense to not agitate other countries to the extent Trump's rhetoric has.   We are asking much when we ask other governments to understand that the rhetoric was just election posturing.  Sure, other governments have seen saber rattling throughout history, but not to this extent, not from a first world mature democracy.  Me, I would have wished we did not elect a leader whose statements for public and foreign consumption are on a par with those of Kim Jung IL and Kim Jung Un. 

 
Koya said:
I'd seriously question your judgememt. Not joking, the evidence of Trump's bigotry, fraud, mysogyny is there for all to see, and especially being in his hometown of NY, has been on public display for decades. 

Or you could just listen and watch his own words and actions over the last 18 months. There is no reasonable debate here.
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Honest question, and I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but if you are so disgusted with the current state of the country and your fellow citizens, why don't you pack up your #### and move?

 No one is forcing you to live here. Instead of complaining in Facebook or a FF message board, take some action. I'm sure there are plenty of other nations out there that'd be happy to let you setup shop and take your tax money.

No hate here; just an honest question.

Good luck with all this and hope you find peace with wherever you decide to do with your life.  :thumbup:

 
ShamrockPride said:
They'll almost certainly grow up to be extremely judgmental of others.....perhaps almost as bad as their father.
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Anyone can change.  For his kids sake,  let's hope he figures this out.  True love for those around you is unconditional,  family or friends.  Loyalty is one of the most important traits to have in life. 

 
With regard to climate change, there were those of us who wanted to discuss it during the election, but the media rarely brought it up as an issue. During the 3 debates between Trump and Clinton, the topic was never even raised- there was one offhand question about energy and that was it. And yet its going to be perhaps the most important aspect of Trump's Presidency. So frustrating to me.

 
timschochet said:
With regard to climate change, there were those of us who wanted to discuss it during the election, but the media rarely brought it up as an issue. During the 3 debates between Trump and Clinton, the topic was never even raised- there was one offhand question about energy and that was it. And yet its going to be perhaps the most important aspect of Trump's Presidency. So frustrating to me.
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Relevance to Koya's situation?

 
flapgreen said:
Anyone can change.  For his kids sake,  let's hope he figures this out.  True love for those around you is unconditional,  family or friends.  Loyalty is one of the most important traits to have in life. 
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I know friends whose wives have cheated on them.  Should they remain loyal?  

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Neither should this, amirite? 
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I have to admit to laughing, but I think it's because the aggressor reminded me of Waldo of "Where's Waldo" fame.  I also felt better when the article stated the victim wasn't hurt, other than his glasses and megaphone getting broken.

 
This reminds me of a thread Tim started about his brother one time.  Even though they had completely different views,  he said he loved him anyway.  I always liked Tim after that.  

 
timschochet said:
With regard to climate change, there were those of us who wanted to discuss it during the election, but the media rarely brought it up as an issue. During the 3 debates between Trump and Clinton, the topic was never even raised- there was one offhand question about energy and that was it. And yet its going to be perhaps the most important aspect of Trump's Presidency. So frustrating to me.
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Wonder why.....

Hillary Clinton 'dropped climate change from speeches after Bernie Sanders endorsement'

 
Instead of instilling fear in your kids over the election, maybe a better course of action would be to instill the value of telling the truth to your kids. To only accuse others of racism, sexism, being the second coming of Hitler, etc. when it's different this time or this time I really mean it or it's so obvious instead of the situations when you're just exaggerating or using rhetoric or trying to win and you really don't think the other person is like that. JMHO.

 
Sabertooth said:
The climate is going to change anyway.  The biggest issue is obviously overpopulation.  Slowing it down does very little for anyone who is alive right now.  Humans are going to snuff themselves out at some point either through nukes or pollution.  It isn't a matter of if, but when.  Mathematical certainty.  
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No problem there either being that Trump will start WWIII. 

Trump is solving all the problems. 

 
Black Box said:
Instead of instilling fear in your kids over the election, maybe a better course of action would be to instill the value of telling the truth to your kids. To only accuse others of racism, sexism, being the second coming of Hitler, etc. when it's different this time or this time I really mean it or it's so obvious instead of the situations when you're just exaggerating or using rhetoric or trying to win and you really don't think the other person is like that. JMHO.
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That would never work. He should cry it out. 

 
flapgreen said:
There is to me 
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This kind of thinking can ruin your life.  I can see unconditional love for your owne kids maybe.  But even that can be destroyed.  I watched my uncle's son steal literally millions of dollars from his father.  The dad always always took him back.  It ruined him.  His son never attended his funeral.  Declined to see him in the hospital as prostate cancer ate away at him in the final couple days.   That son was not worthy of his love.  Unconditional love ruined quite a few relationships in that particular case.  

 
You'll find out who your true friends are when you screw up in life and things are falling apart but there's still a few people left sticking by you. 

 
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