A week later, I am still crushed. The perspective of a mixed-race marriage and a loss of trust (2 Viewers)

fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Yeah, I don't think that there's anything objectionable in the email.  I'm just trying to get across that this election has not been treated as ordinary by folks around here.  There certainly was no similar email in previous elections.  That's the sort of email you get when a national tragedy strikes.

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pizzatyme said:

It's like you think they're going to do bad things to your kids at some point. That's bizarro world thinking type stuff there.

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David Dodds said:

This is why he got elected.  Did you see the crowds for Bernie and Trump?  People were fed-up with the two-party system.  They wanted change.  They wanted change when Obama ran too.  Hillary represented no change.  The voters rejected her.  Trump reprented bigly change.  People held their noses and voted bigly change.

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Walking Boot said:

“You don’t like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election. Push to change it. But don’t break it. Don’t break what our predecessors spent over two centuries building. That’s not being faithful to what this country’s about.”

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fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What percentage of FFA Trump supporters would you characterize as trolls?  How does that compare to supporters of other candidates in this election or in previous elections?

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tommyboy said:

About 5%

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Grace Under Pressure said:

W had a Home Ownership for All program. No knock on W, it was well intended by him, he linked it to more folks being able to participate in the American dream. A consequence of this was riskier loans to individuals, which led to way higher than historical default rates. The Wall St. bundling of security products with high grade ratings when they were crap loans was where Wall St. got involved, but it wasn't "their fault" alone by any means.

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Slapdash said:

I'm really excited about Trump.  Now that he is going to re-deregulate Wall Street all of these disastrous policies for the poor will be reversed .  They will now be able to enjoy free checking provided by their own fraudulent overdraft fee charges. MAGA

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Andy Dufresne said:

Yeah I'm not sure giving "bankers" more free reign is a good thing. And I haven't even seen Wolf of Wall Street.

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Dexter said:

This thread is a salt mine of over reaching fears.   

I know liberalism is a diseases, but holy cow you idiots just LOVE to play the victim don't you?  

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JimmyJabroni said:

Make sure you keep us up to date when one of your (not to be born yet kids  ) turns out to at some point vote differently in an election than you. Will be curious to see if you disown them for being scum, or, will you blame yourself for failing to have them see things exactly the same as you. Should be interesting.

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[icon] said:

We need another war.... a big one. We've gotten way way too soft. 

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chet said:

John Stewart on Trump voters.  Hopefully, his opinion will help.

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[icon] said:

We need another war.... a big one. We've gotten way way too soft. 

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Koya said:

I know there are a number of other threads. I don't give a ####.  I've remained mostly silent in the past week, digesting the events, understanding the calculus less of how we got here (that's fairly obvious to me, with plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle).  But this morning I realized... a family who would have been at the top of my list as Godparents for my wife and I when we have children voted for Trump, and actively support him.  

And then I realized, this election went far further than politics.  It's not that I "won't be friends" with them anymore... but we obviously have hugely different views on the world. And they helped elect someone that has either actively called out and/or encouraged others to do the same while surrounding himself with others who do the same re: racism, anti-semitism, bigotry. Someone who admitted to sexually assaulting someone.  Someone who belittles those with disabilities.

But back to what really struck me... it's a week later and we see instances of hate cropping up with greater frequency than ever.  Boosted by a candidate and his supporters pushing white-nationalism and sowing the seeds of hatred and division.  As some here know, this all with my growing up the son of a Holocaust survivor who studied the rise of a man not unlike Trump in his stated beliefs and certainly approach and rhetoric.  Add to that the fact that my wife is part Latina, African American and Native American and I realize, these people literally support and helped elect someone who has put our lives and freedom, to some degree, in question.

As I stated on facebook, because i needed to emote and don't know where to go from here, on a personal level:


It's been a week since my country broke my heart. To know that nearly half of those who voted were 100% willing to support a clear bigot, racist, fraudulent conman is, honestly, scary. You may not (or may) be racist yourselves, but either way you are clearly ok with electing a President who is that, and by his own words and deeds, more. Someone who incites the worst human fears by tapping into the virulism of bigotry and division. I'm not looking to get into a back and forth on this post, it's just me emotive thoughts, I have no more energy than that. Just know that you have me thinking:

"How can I, someone in a mixed-race marriage, who wishes to have mixed-race children, ever fully trust a nation and those in it who helped elect and support someone who has purposefully singled people out by race, religion and ethnicity in the worst of ways?"

To those people, please understand that this rises above Politics. This is an affront to me, my wife, my future children. You have your reasons, I am sure. You can blame Hillary, the establishment, the lack of attention to the middle class... But please recognize and bear the responsibility for the choice to have helped make reality... an America that is less safe, less free, less equal than it was a week ago, with a direct impact on me, my family and our wellbeing. Even in the face of what some might have felt was a decision between the lesser of two evils, you chose the evil of inhumanity. In doing so, know that in all your adulation and celebration, you have done real harm to me, my family and millions like us who now are fearful of a nation that is supposed to be land of the free and home of the brave. I now question whether we are either, and moreso, what might it take to reclaim that banner?

Knowing there are those, even those close to me, who still support someone who is so clearly a bigoted racist, not to mention an admitted sexual assaulter, I honestly don't know if the bonds that have been frayed within me, bonds that extend decades in some case, can ever be truly rebuilt. After all, how could I feel safe letting my children be cared for by those who supported a bigot who has attacked their very ethnicity, encouraged others to discriminate and bully, someone who as of today is putting a white nationalist as his leading advisor?

It is a week later. I am still crushed. Not by the election, but the electorate, and especially those whom I thought shared a common ethos of decency, love and acceptance. How do we heal as a nation? We rebuild bonds, reinforce institutions, work together and find common ground. How do I heal as a human? I think to some degree, I never will. We can grow, we can learn, we can survive, evolve and thrive... but some lines, once crossed, can never again be whole. This election will forever be a demarcation whereby I recognized a lot more of this country stands against me and my family rather than for it. It is a week later. And I am still crushed.

 


 

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NFL2DF said:

How come Card Trader does not post anymore? 

Looks like he last logged in 11 hours ago, so assuming he was not banned. 

And after reading some of the comments on page 1, hopefully that helped Koya some. 

Seems a lot of the posters in this thread are no longer around. Odd.

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HellToupee said:

He chooses not to post here anymore which is sad because he’s a very good guy , believe me a very good guy. But just as you noticed he’s not the only one who choose to walk away from this toxic environment. It’s a shame , a damn shame but who can blame them. I do miss Card Trader’s posts. Good guy

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Charlie Steiner said:

I'm not even going to see what other people posted in this thread as I want to shoot straight from the hip; your 'plight' resonates with me because someone I'm related to and thought we were closer than brothers growing up is married to and has two kids with an African-American woman and has been almost exactly echoing your comments, and it's put an even greater strain on our dwindling relationship despite the fact that we live about 5 miles from each other and our kids go to the same school. I have my side of the story about how and why we're drifted apart, but it's irrelevant to my point in this. Anyway, I'm going to address you as if I were talking to him instead; maybe it will help, maybe it won't mean anything, but since I'm in an untenable position with him IRL, I'm going to try it this way.

First, it's almost as if the months and weeks leading up to the election ceased to exist once Trump won, and ONLY possible reason anyone would have voted for him (whether you believe me or not at this point, I proudly voted for neither) was because they agreed with his racist, sexist, etc. rhetoric. I thought he was sabotaging his own campaign with increasingly vile comments; it made me think he was tanking it to ensure Hillary won.  I too was stunned at his victory, but also saddened that everything that this campaign was about disappeared except for the racism and homophobia.  THREE MONTHS BEFORE HE EVEN GETS SWORN IN AND PEOPLE ARE ALREADY ACTING AS IF CIVIL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN REPEALED AND RACE AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION ARE NOW CRIMES.  Sorry for the all caps, but it was for emphasis.  As for the incidents of racism being reported all over social media, my range of friends covers both ends of the political spectrum, so I'm seeing a fairly equal amount of hate-driven crimes being reported from the Right as well as the Left. 

Second, despite a number of 'crimes' being carried out by supporters from both wings of the political spectrum, it seems the narrative that's sticking is the one that blames white, male Christians.  Since I guess I fit into all three of those, my question is: how do you tell the 'bad' white male Christians from the 'good' ones, and why is it okay to have prejudiced attitudes towards white male Christians?  Should I be fearful of the next 4 years not only for myself but for kids as well, as I'm bound to be mistaken for a Trump supporter, and/or my kids may face a lot of backlash and prejudice at school, and since most of the administration at my kids' school are African-American, can I fear them as well since they most likely didn't vote for Trump and could have bias towards whites? You see how it becomes a vicious circle if you want to look at it from such cut-and-dry perspectives?  As for the comment about 'trusting' this country, did you already forget about the previous 8 years?  You think there will never be another black President?

Third, I have no answer to the race issue--other than love your neighbor--and anyone who says they have the answer is selling you a bill of goods.  I think pointing to the 'increased' incidents of racism being reported as an indicator of how bad whites are is just as bad as pointing to violence perpetrated by African Americans as endemic to the entire race, and to me that's a big hurdle that needs to be overcome to improve race relations.

Finally, regarding the friends you're referring to, what has really changed, other than your perception of them, or do you think they've just been putting on a front all the time you've known them and now that Trump is President, their opportunity to treat you how they secretly really want to treat you has come at last? 

Actually, one last thing. My relationship/friendship with my cousin has been a long slow decline for at least 15 years if not longer.  I pin the start around the time my second son, after church (which both our families attended together), after literally every Sunday service, he would ask if their kids could play with him, and literally every time he asked, they said no, that they had something else to do.  Most of the time, it was to spend time with her family, and while I'm not in a position to say who they should spend time with, I would have thought they, as family (my mother's mom and his mother's mom were sisters, and our mothers were more best friends than cousins, so again there was a level of closeness already established), they would maybe set aside one Sunday afternoon if for no other reason than to appease my son.  It came to a head one year at one of their kids' birthday parties.  My parents were invited, as my cousin's parents were going to be there as well, but we weren't.  When my mother asked my cousin's wife why my kids weren't there, she told my mother "we invited family only."  That hurt, and it made me see my relationship with them in a different light, which leads to the point I'm trying to make with this story; if you and your friends are 'close', you run the risk of blindsiding them when you start to let your feelings about Trump affect your friendships. If you're going to change how you treat them, I think it's only fair to them that you're up front about it.

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James Daulton said:

If you think this environment is toxic, just for a day try posting anti-Trump comments on a pro-Trump bored.  You'll be called more names than you've even heard of and your masculinity and sexuality will be inferred and ridiculed.

This place is day care compared to a pro-Trump bored Super Max.

You Trump guys really need a reality check in many ways. 

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Charlie Steiner said:

I'm not even going to see what other people posted in this thread as I want to shoot straight from the hip; your 'plight' resonates with me because someone I'm related to and thought we were closer than brothers growing up is married to and has two kids with an African-American woman and has been almost exactly echoing your comments, and it's put an even greater strain on our dwindling relationship despite the fact that we live about 5 miles from each other and our kids go to the same school. I have my side of the story about how and why we're drifted apart, but it's irrelevant to my point in this. Anyway, I'm going to address you as if I were talking to him instead; maybe it will help, maybe it won't mean anything, but since I'm in an untenable position with him IRL, I'm going to try it this way.

First, it's almost as if the months and weeks leading up to the election ceased to exist once Trump won, and ONLY possible reason anyone would have voted for him (whether you believe me or not at this point, I proudly voted for neither) was because they agreed with his racist, sexist, etc. rhetoric. I thought he was sabotaging his own campaign with increasingly vile comments; it made me think he was tanking it to ensure Hillary won.  I too was stunned at his victory, but also saddened that everything that this campaign was about disappeared except for the racism and homophobia.  THREE MONTHS BEFORE HE EVEN GETS SWORN IN AND PEOPLE ARE ALREADY ACTING AS IF CIVIL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN REPEALED AND RACE AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION ARE NOW CRIMES.  Sorry for the all caps, but it was for emphasis.  As for the incidents of racism being reported all over social media, my range of friends covers both ends of the political spectrum, so I'm seeing a fairly equal amount of hate-driven crimes being reported from the Right as well as the Left. 

Second, despite a number of 'crimes' being carried out by supporters from both wings of the political spectrum, it seems the narrative that's sticking is the one that blames white, male Christians.  Since I guess I fit into all three of those, my question is: how do you tell the 'bad' white male Christians from the 'good' ones, and why is it okay to have prejudiced attitudes towards white male Christians?  Should I be fearful of the next 4 years not only for myself but for kids as well, as I'm bound to be mistaken for a Trump supporter, and/or my kids may face a lot of backlash and prejudice at school, and since most of the administration at my kids' school are African-American, can I fear them as well since they most likely didn't vote for Trump and could have bias towards whites? You see how it becomes a vicious circle if you want to look at it from such cut-and-dry perspectives?  As for the comment about 'trusting' this country, did you already forget about the previous 8 years?  You think there will never be another black President?

Third, I have no answer to the race issue--other than love your neighbor--and anyone who says they have the answer is selling you a bill of goods.  I think pointing to the 'increased' incidents of racism being reported as an indicator of how bad whites are is just as bad as pointing to violence perpetrated by African Americans as endemic to the entire race, and to me that's a big hurdle that needs to be overcome to improve race relations.

Finally, regarding the friends you're referring to, what has really changed, other than your perception of them, or do you think they've just been putting on a front all the time you've known them and now that Trump is President, their opportunity to treat you how they secretly really want to treat you has come at last? 

Actually, one last thing. My relationship/friendship with my cousin has been a long slow decline for at least 15 years if not longer.  I pin the start around the time my second son, after church (which both our families attended together), after literally every Sunday service, he would ask if their kids could play with him, and literally every time he asked, they said no, that they had something else to do.  Most of the time, it was to spend time with her family, and while I'm not in a position to say who they should spend time with, I would have thought they, as family (my mother's mom and his mother's mom were sisters, and our mothers were more best friends than cousins, so again there was a level of closeness already established), they would maybe set aside one Sunday afternoon if for no other reason than to appease my son.  It came to a head one year at one of their kids' birthday parties.  My parents were invited, as my cousin's parents were going to be there as well, but we weren't.  When my mother asked my cousin's wife why my kids weren't there, she told my mother "we invited family only."  That hurt, and it made me see my relationship with them in a different light, which leads to the point I'm trying to make with this story; if you and your friends are 'close', you run the risk of blindsiding them when you start to let your feelings about Trump affect your friendships. If you're going to change how you treat them, I think it's only fair to them that you're up front about it.

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Charlie Steiner said:

Since this thread got bumped, I'm going to revisit this post, and give an update.  Maybe others went through similar experiences.

In the months after the election, my cousin doubled down on his social media pontification about social injustices, and I think he went apoplectic when the protest in Richmond happened; after that, anyone who still supported Trump AND didn't denounce him after his clear support of the KKK and white supremacy was wrong.  On one hand, I don't have a problem with folks using social media to voice their opinions about anything, but on the other, I cringe at the thought that so many people feel like our country has reached a point of no return both politically and socially, and I didn't realize until a few months ago how strongly some folks feel when there is dissent.

As I said in my first post on this thread, my cousin and I were pretty close growing up (I thought), but have steadily drifted apart despite still living close to each other. One thing I didn't mention before was that he had become a born-again Christian while we were still roommates shortly after college, and he has remained very active in his faith and by all accounts is a strong example of a good Christian man, husband and father.  However, within the last year, his social media crusade against injustice added 'white churches' to the list.  After the 5th or 20th post he shared from someone else on the subject (about 95% of his posts were of this type at the time, BTW), I finally called him out about it.  On one hand, certainly there were valid points about how churches 'fail', but on the other, singling out 'white' churches while having almost exclusively gone to 'white' churches from the time he was born again (and I'm pretty sure the one they go to now would fall into the 'white' church category), it felt un-Christian.  Anyway, during our back-and-forth about it, he played the race card (since his kids are bi-racial and he fears what whites are going to do to them).  His kids are great kids; both excel at school and their other pursuits (one is off to college this fall and will probably be in the school's marching band, the other is still in HS but is an important member of the soccer team and IMHO has the kind of speed that will get him noticed, if he hasn't been already), so I made a comment along the lines of saying that it didn't seem like his kids were being held back by any of this.  Apparently, his wife was monitoring this conversation and jumped in at this point, and told me to NEVER talk about her kids.  I didn't feel like I had said anything bad, so I was confused but also got rankled by her attitude, so I got into it with her, trying to remind her that I/my wife and I were on their side.  She then asks "When have you ever been on our side?"  My response was to air some laundry, reminding her that we (my wife more than me, but I was fully behind her) watched their kids free of charge (my comment at the time was "we're family") when the mom went back to work (BTW, my wife was also taking care of our own 2 kids, both under 2 at the time), and once they were back on their feet financially and didn't need our/my wife's help any more, they slowly stopped associating with us.  I may have also mentioned a couple of other instances when they 'shunned' us for lack of a better term.  At that point, my cousin deleted that thread and I haven't seen or heard anything from them since.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, even though things between us were going south before the election, all the chaos (mostly in media/social media) that has ensued since helped expedite/finalize the process.  I've already been scolded about my part in the process, but to me, it takes two, and the other half of the equation not only shows no remorse but also seems to be more emboldened about the rightness of their actions and stances. It feels like not only has Trump been a divisive President, but it's the "if you're not with us, you're against us" type of division, and any hope of finding middle ground between the two is gone, which I feel at least in my case is more the responsibility of those who stand against Trump than mine. 

Sorry for tl;dr, but this has cost me a lot of sleep even to this day, and any of you that struggle to sleep as well, you now have this post to help you on your way, so you're welcome.

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eoMMan said:

Do you regret not voting for HRC?  Are you still proud of voting for neither?

I'm not blaming you but I think a big part of why Trump won was that there were so many voters, like you, that didn't like either one of them and chose to sit it out or vote for a third person.

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Charlie Steiner said:

My state, during most of my lifetime, goes D no matter who runs. I don't say that as a cop-out for not voting, but my lack of voting either way, due to the state in which I live, has minimal impact, and since I consider my vote to be a sacred thing, I won't vote for anyone who I feel doesn't deserve it; in other words, I don't "throw away" my vote on a different candidate as a way to vote against another. I don't regret not voting for either one, and given how I feel about my vote, yes, I am proud that I gave it to neither of them.

When I don't vote for a candidate--I've done this before--I do so with the belief that this country will survive until the next election, and I can hope for a worthy candidate again.  If that causes scorn, so be it. 

This too shall pass.

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matuski said:

Social media is not where/how you have an adult discussion with someone you claim to care about.  End of story.

You are too emotionally invested in politics (it appears likewise for your cousin).  Take him a 6 pack of beer and go talk about the time you streaked the quad, the Depeche Mode concert you went to, the time you sat the 50 yard line for a Cowboy game.  Remind yourselves you are family and love each other.  The rest is bullshoot.

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James Daulton said:

If you think this environment is toxic, just for a day try posting anti-Trump comments on a pro-Trump bored.  You'll be called more names than you've even heard of and your masculinity and sexuality will be inferred and ridiculed.

This place is day care compared to a pro-Trump bored Super Max.

You Trump guys really need a reality check in many ways. 

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James Daulton said:

If you think this environment is toxic, just for a day try posting anti-Trump comments on a pro-Trump bored.  You'll be called more names than you've even heard of and your masculinity and sexuality will be inferred and ridiculed.

This place is day care compared to a pro-Trump bored Super Max.

You Trump guys really need a reality check in many ways. 

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[icon] said:

This thread probably belongs in the politics forum 

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Koya said:

Yes.  And I'm not going to be baited into responding endlessly to lies and misrepresentations there, either, including those asserted in the comment that bumped this thread.

But since this was my thread, and to close the loop, the disgusting assertion that these "hate crimes" were committed by "blacks, muslims and jews" is the exact type of harmful, misleading propaganda that is evidence that things are at least as bad as I thought they might be under the leadership of a clear racist, white nationalist sympathizer (dealing with this topic, we can also discuss his many fraudulent business activities, constant lies, sexual harassment/assault and looking to screw the little guy out of hard earned dollars by welching on his "word" dozens and dozens of times). 

Just as bad, and again, evidenced by someone blaming the blacks, muslims and Jews for what has been a clear increase in racism/racist attacks/racist policies, are folks who may not (or may) be those things themselves, but are without a doubt, and by their own words and praise, ok supporting a man who is, and policies that are. I had terribly low expectations, and it's been in many ways, worse than that (economically better, so far... we will see if it will sustain.  But to those willing to give up our nations soul, and stomp on its heart, in the name of $$'s are as much a part of the problem as those who simply hold to those racist, nationalist views. At the least latter holds some greater belief, even if rooted in hate).

The irony is the very bump that suggested my early skepticism and concern were unwarranted demonstrates the very characteristics of why I am no longer skeptical - I am convinced.  It's a terribly dark period in our nation.  One in which I left the Dem party formally (although hadn't voted for them in a pres election for some time), yet clearly have no home in the Party of Trump, of power over country, of selfish racism and nationalism over nation and all our people, of fear and anger over hope and pride.

If there is a positive outcome to this story, at least I now know many, some once considered good friends, who harbored many of these beliefs... some outright (i.e. they are actually racist, and I should have known that before and that's on me to have needed this wake up call to be "uncomfortable" with any number of their words and actions) and others who are perfectly fine supporting others who do/are.

@Maurile Tremblay or @Joe Bryant - Kindly move this to the Politics Forum, where it belongs.  

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jomar said:

I think it's been said a thousand times, all Trump supporters aren't racist, but being racist is not a disqualifier to be POTUS for those people.  so when someone is whining about libs saying 'every single person who voted for Trump is a racist', its a straw man.  

also, to not see the whining, you could always just not click on the thread but that might be asking too much

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Koya said:

Also, someone specifically bumped this thread, essentially "asking" (sincere or otherwise I don't know, since they just forwarded some pretty disgusting lies re: blame the minorities for the increased incidents against them / more virulent public racism) if my thoughts had evolved. And I answered... including important caveats like I DON'T consider anyone who voted for Trump a racist, but they do support one. Sounds like the one whining (and lying/misrepresenting my words) here is @irish eyes  

More importantly, there is so much room for important discussion, on the merits, on any range of issues - yet twice posters just above used clear lies to distort any chance of that. 

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HellToupee said:

Sounds like Shangri-La, where is this place?

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ShamrockPride said:

So it works the same both ways is what you're saying. I guess it just comes down to what you find more insulting to be called:

- Gay, effeminate, dumba##, etc

Vs

- Homophobe, nazi, racist, etc.

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Gawain said:

Did you ever have kid(s)?

If so, congrats!

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Flash1 said:

Wait, are you saying the guys who dare say anything positive about Trump in the PF don't get treated like ####? You have got to be freaking kidding .

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Flash1 said:

You should be posting in the "this is funny thread". You are killing it!

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Flash1 said:

Wait, are you saying the guys who dare say anything positive about Trump in the PF don't get treated like ####? You have got to be freaking kidding .

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Flash1 said:

You should be posting in the "this is funny thread". You are killing it!

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