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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I have to think that if Dozier, Samia and Jones are NOT a better alternative than Elflien is right now. They have played Dozier there when Elf was out. If Dozier were better than Elf than he should start.At this point I'd be excited to try anyone in place of Elflein. Draw a name out of a hat for all I care. Surely whoever they threw in there couldn't be any worse, right?
I do not think he is.
It may be that Elflien is better for the run game and screen game than the Vikings other options are even if he is very bad in pass pro. He is fast for a lineman which has pretty consistently been a point of emphasis for the Vikings based on the players they have drafted.
Bradbury made some mistakes too although I have heard that the illegal blocker downfield call was something they don't always call.
I do think the Vikings need to upgrade the position. Just not sure they have a player on the roster right now ready to do that.
sports_fan
Footballguy
PFF rates Elflein highly for run blocking. Offsets his low pass blocking grade. Dozier would probably be the best possible replacement, but overall looks like a significant downgrade. Dozier also has more experience at RG than LG. His snap count at RG is more than twice that at LG, which is consistent with the rest of his career. I still have some hope Elflein is adjusting to a new position and could improve his pass blocking. Overall it’s not good, but I agree they don’t seem to have any better options on roster
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well what did you think of Dozier when he played?
I would love it if Dru Samia would step up and challenge for the job but he is behind Dozier. So seems unlikely he would be an upgrade.
The only time these guys have played was preseason and guys like Bret Jones and Samia were playing against 3rd stringers a bunch of who didn't make their teams and are not starting now. So not a good way to compare them in my view.
In the past I have had no confidence in the Vikings coaches to identify and develop offensive line talent. I think this has really changed with Kubiak and Dennison having influence on these decisions. The offensive line has vastly improved from what it was last season or prior to that. They are actually a above average offensive line in the NFL now. That has not been the case for a long time.
FBO has the Vikings as the 5th best offensive line in the NFL in adjusted line yards. More than just above average in run blocking. They are 15th in pass protection. So average in that area.
In 2018 FBO ranked the Vikings as 23rd in adjusted line yards and 9th in pass protection. So the Vikings have gotten a lot better at run blocking compared to last season, but have slipped a bit in pass protection.
In 2017 they ranked the Vikings as 19th in both categories.
There is still another half a season to go. I think we have seen improvement from Bradbury and the offensive line overall compared to how poorly they started the season. Possible they keep getting better as the season goes on.
All very good points. In the games Dozier played, I don't recall him getting beaten like a drum, but to be fair I also don't recall him making big blocks in the run game. So it's probably a wash, and you're correct that Zimmer values run blocking more than pass. I guess I'm just frustrated seeing Elflein pushed backwards into Cousin's lap, on what seems to be a regular basis. But it's likely I'm inflating the issue bigger than it really is. Fandom and all that.
I have Robert Quinn in an IDP league. What are the chances he gets a sack this week against the Vikes?
encaitar
Footballguy
Not super high actually. Reiff has only allowed 2 sacks all year at LT, while O-Niell has never allowed a sack in his 1 1/2 year career at RT. Most of the pressure teams are getting against the Vikings is up the middle and on blitzes.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Reiff and ONeil have been better at pass protection than the inside guys.
Chris Jones came back from injury for this recent game and he had 7 pressures. I think the inside 3 gave up pressure in the teens last game. The two tackles only gave up 4 between them.
I think Quinn is a shadow of his former self and the tackles should be able to block him.
Quinn has actually been outstanding (for IDP fantasy purposes) this year. He has 6.5 sacks in his six games he has played this year.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Maybe I am wrong about him and he is playing at a high level again.
I haven't been playing IDP so not really tracking stuff like that. I have been looking at sacks and hits, Griffen and Hunter are up there. I guess Quinn had two sacks vs the Saints in the last game, prior to that he was pretty far down the list. He was great for awhile but hasn't been a double digit sack guy since 2014. I believe he had an injury and he hasn't played at that level again since.
If you sort this list you will see the defensive players QB hits, which I think may be a better indicator than sacks, as far as pressure being applied by the players.
Griffen actually has two more QB hits than Hunter has. Hunter has 3 more sacks.
Quinn only has 8 QB hits. That is 45th on the list, tied with like 10 other guys.
The Vikings’ offensive kryptonite (and how to overcome it)
According to this the inside guys gave up 10 pressures in the last game while the tackles gave up 4. Not quite as bad as I was thinking. They were worse in the game vs the Packers.
Khalil Mack is the only outside rusher to really get a lot of pressure this year. He did most of that against Reiff.
Its worth stating that Brian O'Neil has been great. The Vikings did get a good one there.
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I am not sure how well he is playing for nfl purposes but his qb hits might be down because he has missed 2.5 games due to injury and suspension. He has been good for fantasy purposes though.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well he got to Cousins on 3rd down just now.
Seems like a miscommunication as no one tried to block him.
Seems like a miscommunication as no one tried to block him.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Should be able to beat Denver and go 8-3 into the bye. Never know with MN though.
Then:
Wk 13: @SEA on MNF
Wk 14: DET
Wk 15: @LAC on SNF
Wk 16: GB on MNF
Wk 17: CHI
Lots of primetime games. Division games all at home.
Then:
Wk 13: @SEA on MNF
Wk 14: DET
Wk 15: @LAC on SNF
Wk 16: GB on MNF
Wk 17: CHI
Lots of primetime games. Division games all at home.
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snogger
Footballguy
Very nice win on the road in Prime time.. Need to beat the Bronco's next week and then during the Bye week need someone to beat some sense into Zimmer that the "Bend don't break" defensive scheme is going to get your team a one and out trip in the playoffs.
If they beat the Bronco's, and the 49ers beat the Packers during the VIkings Bye week, they'll enter the last 5 weeks tied for 1st place!
Week 13 @ Seattle is going to be a massive test.. Hoping the Bye weeks gets them healthy and a new scheme, or Wilson will destroy them.
Should beat the Lions at home, @ Chargers is again a tough call.. If it's the Chargers that faced the Packers...toss-up ... But if it's the Chargers that have played most of the rest of the season they will win that one. Packers at home... Had a chance to beat them in Green Bay, so have to think they can win that one, and then vs. the Bears, which they should win.
Going to go out on a limb and say they go 4-1 the rest of the way.
Which they need to do as the Packers have a VERY Favorable schedule ahead of them. After the 49ers, they play the Giants, Redskins, Bears and the Lions.. I see a 3-2 or 4-1..
But first, they need to take care of the Broncos and not look past them..
If they beat the Bronco's, and the 49ers beat the Packers during the VIkings Bye week, they'll enter the last 5 weeks tied for 1st place!
Week 13 @ Seattle is going to be a massive test.. Hoping the Bye weeks gets them healthy and a new scheme, or Wilson will destroy them.
Should beat the Lions at home, @ Chargers is again a tough call.. If it's the Chargers that faced the Packers...toss-up ... But if it's the Chargers that have played most of the rest of the season they will win that one. Packers at home... Had a chance to beat them in Green Bay, so have to think they can win that one, and then vs. the Bears, which they should win.
Going to go out on a limb and say they go 4-1 the rest of the way.
Which they need to do as the Packers have a VERY Favorable schedule ahead of them. After the 49ers, they play the Giants, Redskins, Bears and the Lions.. I see a 3-2 or 4-1..
But first, they need to take care of the Broncos and not look past them..
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Great game for the Vikes considering the circumstances and recent failures in prime time. It was great to see a clean game with minimal mistakes/penalties. Cousins played mistake-free again and took what he was given... that TD attempt to Diggs was a tough pass to handle, but hit Diggs in the hands in a small window. They still need to figure out DB schemes, although they were close on a couple INT opportunities which would have made secondary look a lot better than the results we got. I think Hughes takes that one to the house when he's 100%. Cooper deserves a ton of credit for the 3 critical tightrope sideline plays.
Zow
Footballguy
Yep. All things considered I couldn’t be happier with how that game went. I appreciated the strategy of stopping the run (Dak actually took quite advantage but I’m glad the Vikings stuck with it). Cousins and the offense were balanced and the play-calling was damn good. Just a really well executed game with a few of the key guys out.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Cook sure looked like a beast. I was very impressed.
Zow
Footballguy
Had hoped we’d make a play for somebody (Gordon, maybe a Robby Anderson or Devante Parker, and at least send out a line on AJ Green) but that ship has sailed. Need Thielen back after the bye and hope that Doctson steps up or we see a jump by Treadwell or one of the other guys.
snogger
Footballguy
As of late this seems to be Zimmer's way of coaching.. Bend, don't break, from the 20 to 20 and then we'll tighten up..
As I mentioned above, that kind of play will get you another 1 and out playoff game.
Hopefully, after the Bronco's game, they can use the bye in two weeks to get healthy and change the scheme a bit..
mr roboto
Footballguy
My fear is he doesn’t trust them to play the WRs tighter...As of late this seems to be Zimmer's way of coaching.. Bend, don't break, from the 20 to 20 and then we'll tighten up..
As I mentioned above, that kind of play will get you another 1 and out playoff game.
Hopefully, after the Bronco's game, they can use the bye in two weeks to get healthy and change the scheme a bit..
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Nose tackle Linval Joseph undergoes surgery to repair meniscus, timing of return is uncertain
Google says recovery from meniscus surgery is 2 weeks. Maybe it takes longer than that.
I was very worried that the Cowboys would just be able to run up the middle all day without Joseph in there, but Jaleel Johnson stepped up and played well from what I saw. They did a great job of limiting Elliot, perhaps at some expense to coverage. They still had an issue with not getting enough pressure up the middle on pass rush, thus the many blitzes.
The bliting was working most of the time although there were a few where it got picked up and Dakota had too much time,.
While the secondary struggled a lot again in this game, Jim makes a good point about those sideline catches. You can't really stop perfect execution like that. He was like Chris Carter out there last night.
Google says recovery from meniscus surgery is 2 weeks. Maybe it takes longer than that.
I was very worried that the Cowboys would just be able to run up the middle all day without Joseph in there, but Jaleel Johnson stepped up and played well from what I saw. They did a great job of limiting Elliot, perhaps at some expense to coverage. They still had an issue with not getting enough pressure up the middle on pass rush, thus the many blitzes.
The bliting was working most of the time although there were a few where it got picked up and Dakota had too much time,.
While the secondary struggled a lot again in this game, Jim makes a good point about those sideline catches. You can't really stop perfect execution like that. He was like Chris Carter out there last night.
I will be heading to the Vikes game this Sunday vs Denver. I have never been to the stadium and am staying down town (about 6 or 7 blocks away) so we plan to walk to the game. I have never been to Minneapolis so any suggestions of places to go before or after the game? Any recommendations of things to see/eat/drink in the stadium?
We are also hitting a T-wolves game on Friday and the Wild game on Saturday. It's a packed full weekend and it looks like weather should be in the 30's so not too bad. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
We are also hitting a T-wolves game on Friday and the Wild game on Saturday. It's a packed full weekend and it looks like weather should be in the 30's so not too bad. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Yep. I ended up not playing him but Quinn did have a really good IDP game. He may be matchup proof at the moment.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Quinn played on 71% of the snaps and he had 1 solo tackle 2 assists 1 sack and 3 QB hits.
I still did not really notice him during the game aside from the sack.
Maybe he is having a resurgence and is playing closer to his 2014 level than he has for several years now. He still isn't playing at that level though as Quinn used to get a lot of tackles too.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I like Glueks whiich is off Hennepin so somewhat away from the stadium, but its a fun bar.
I half reemember watching the Bears lose to the Colts at Dan Kellys pub. Nice bar and I think perhaps closer to where you are staying.
Theres a ton to choose from though.
He is putting pressure on the QB but really isn't a big tackle guy. He does cause havoc but not as much as his hay day. He bookends Lawrence well and gives Dallas a balanced pass rush which helps the overall defense. He is not as good as he once was but is serving a purpose and helping. As far as IDP play he is doing well based on my scoring (we get pts for QB hits so that really helps him out even if he is not getting the sack).
Looks like Glueks is right next to the Target Center for the T-Wolves game. Maybe we can hit that up after the game on the way back to the hotel.
Dan Kellys is on the same street as our hotel about half way to US Bank Stadium. It can be part of the pub crawl to the game on Sunday...hahahaha
Thanks for the suggestions. I can't wait for the weekend.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The Vikings have been relatively lucky so far without having too many injuries, but now they are starting to stack up. I think the bye couldn't be coming at a better time.
Still one more game to go before then. The Vikings will be playing Denver without Adam Thielen, Josh Kline, Linval Joseph, Anthony Harris.
Sendejo is questionable so I am not sure what ZImmers plan is to replace Harris Kearse might be the only guy healthy if Sendejo can't play. Maybe Kearse would be a good play anyways.
The Vikings also had to put Brett Jones on IR. They brought up Avantae Collins from the practice squad. He has played well in limited snaps before, in particular in a game where he was playing TE.
Still one more game to go before then. The Vikings will be playing Denver without Adam Thielen, Josh Kline, Linval Joseph, Anthony Harris.
Sendejo is questionable so I am not sure what ZImmers plan is to replace Harris Kearse might be the only guy healthy if Sendejo can't play. Maybe Kearse would be a good play anyways.
The Vikings also had to put Brett Jones on IR. They brought up Avantae Collins from the practice squad. He has played well in limited snaps before, in particular in a game where he was playing TE.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Seems an interminable wait to get Thielen back in my fantasy lineup. I'm keeping a good thought for him. As for the rest, well I am a Packer fan, I do not affirmatively wish them ill, but I reserve my good wishes. I am holding out the fantasy that the Vikes can poop the sheets against Denver as badly as the Packers did against the Chargers, but I don't actually believe that. I suspect the Vikes have more than enough talent, depleted though they may be, to win walking away this week. Still, a guy can dream, you know, until the alarm goes off and he wakes to reality.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Oh cruel, cruel Vikings. Taunting me with the prospect of a loss before scoring T.D.'s on 4 consecutive drives to close the thing out. Sporting of them, I suppose, to have spotted Denver that lead, but cruel to have raised my hopes.
snogger
Footballguy
That last drive was vintage Zimmer "bend don't break".. Numerous 4th downs and each time he rushed only 3 or 4 and dropped back into coverage and gave up the 1st down...
Someone needs to sit him down, have him watch that last drive 3 or 4 straight times to see just how bad it was and NO
This team won't make it far if they continue to play with that mentality..
He needs to take a hint from Belichick and see how he handled the Eagles last 4th down play.. I'm not saying he needs to bring the house like they did on that play.. But at least rush 5 on 4th downs.
Now the bye week to hopefully get Theilen healthy and hopefully get the Defensive Coaches to see that Rhodes is getting burned each and every game. Time to give him help on plays as he is not nearly as good as he thinks he is.
Someone needs to sit him down, have him watch that last drive 3 or 4 straight times to see just how bad it was and NO
This team won't make it far if they continue to play with that mentality..
He needs to take a hint from Belichick and see how he handled the Eagles last 4th down play.. I'm not saying he needs to bring the house like they did on that play.. But at least rush 5 on 4th downs.
Now the bye week to hopefully get Theilen healthy and hopefully get the Defensive Coaches to see that Rhodes is getting burned each and every game. Time to give him help on plays as he is not nearly as good as he thinks he is.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well the Vikings always use the bye week for self scouting. So maybe we do see some changes on defense after the bye.
Denver only scored 3 points in the 2nd half. Yes they missed a field goal, but the defense did enough to prevent points and for the comeback by the offense to win.
Would I like the defense to play better than they have been? Of course. But they are doing enough for them to win games.
Im proud of how Kirk Cousins played in the 2nd half. He got the offense going with the hurry up and was an instrumental part in how they won the game. If anoone wants to say he hasn't earned the money the Vikings gave him have them look at this game.
Denver only scored 3 points in the 2nd half. Yes they missed a field goal, but the defense did enough to prevent points and for the comeback by the offense to win.
Would I like the defense to play better than they have been? Of course. But they are doing enough for them to win games.
Im proud of how Kirk Cousins played in the 2nd half. He got the offense going with the hurry up and was an instrumental part in how they won the game. If anoone wants to say he hasn't earned the money the Vikings gave him have them look at this game.
Cousins has played great since the first couple weeks of the season however all of those games were basically playing from in front. He had the run game and the score in his favor and didn't turn the ball over keeping the ship going in the right direction. This was the first game that he actually was the biggest reason for the Vikings to win. He brought them back and made the key throws when needed to get the win. I was waiting for this from Cousins as this is what he was missing. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come.
On a side note I was at the game for my very first trip to Minnesota. The first half was very worrisome as I was worried they wouldn't even score. The second half for sure made up for it. It was a great atmosphere and the loudest place I have ever been....or at least equal to the arena when the LA Kings won their second Cup in double overtime in 2014. I could feel my eardrums vibrating from the noise. It was awesome!!!
MikesVikes
Footballguy
I think that Rhodes can handle receivers in the shorter field. He can’t hang with them downfield though.As of late this seems to be Zimmer's way of coaching.. Bend, don't break, from the 20 to 20 and then we'll tighten up..
As I mentioned above, that kind of play will get you another 1 and out playoff game.
Hopefully, after the Bronco's game, they can use the bye in two weeks to get healthy and change the scheme a bit..
It was an awesome time. We stayed downtown Minneapolis........the rail system was awesome. We took the rail from the airport to downtown. We were two blocks from the station. We walked 3 blocks to the T-wolves game on Friday (terrible atomosphere with only 1/3-1/2 full statium with no excitement). We took the rail to St Paul for the Wild game on Saturday (much better atmosphere with a basically full arena and an OT game). Stopped by the Surly brewery on the way back from the Wild game for dinner and drinks (short walk from one of the rail stops and then back on to get back to downtown Minneapolis. Then walked the 9 blocks to the game on Sunday. Everything was easy and everyone we met were outstanding.
It's a trip I hope to make again in the future.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Cousins Reads First Half Tweets From Sunday's Comeback Win | Under Center with Kirk Cousins
I think Kurt Cousins has a great sense of humor for a robot.
I think Kurt Cousins has a great sense of humor for a robot.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
You guys had a good week.1/2 a game back for 1st place in the north thanks the 49ers win.. Seahawks, on Monday night... no idea how to call this..the Eagles gave them all they could handle, but that was in Philly.
Going to take a A+++ game from all 3 sides to pull out the victory..
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
No injuries and closing the gap on the Packers is a good week if one is a Vikes fan. As a Thelan owner I just hope to see him give me some fantasy production moving forward.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This game in Seattle critical importance for the Vikings to try to secure any home field advantage in the playoffs.
They really need all handscob deck and they shouldn't be saving any plays for beyond this game
I think this will be the most difficult game to win left on the schedule.
They really need all handscob deck and they shouldn't be saving any plays for beyond this game
I think this will be the most difficult game to win left on the schedule.
Lockett running free on a Wilson scramble is my biggest worry in this game. I don't think we have anybody that can cover Lockett (or Metcalf for that matter). I am not worried so much about the run game but Wilson breaking contain and slinging it down field to those WR's will be the difference.
They need a controlled rush keeping Wilson contained and some over the top safety net to prevent the WR's from getting behind the corners. If they can do that they have a chance.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That is going to be key. I do not expect them to be able to stop Houdini but maybe they can limit him.
From what I saw of the most recent game the Eagles were giving Lockett extra attention with safety help while leaving the other receivers like Metcalf one on one. Maybe the Vikings can do something similar and take their chances with Rhodes against Metcalf?
Bottom line the defensive backs have to play better than they have for the Vikings to win.
I loved how the offense moved the ball once they went hurry up. I would like to see them do that earlier in the game, even if for just a few plays. Good things seem to happen when they do that.
It would be a big boost to get Thielen back. I hope he is good to go.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I well remember Fred Cox. My sincere condolences to the Viking Community.
