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Waiver blocking - Good managing or bad karma? (1 Viewer)

I

iamkoza

Footballguy
my opponent this week has zero FAAB budget left and if we tie on a $0 bid i get the player based on waiver tiebreaker... he needs a defense and i am considering bidding on 2 defenses just to block

edit: if it matters i would essentially be holding the defenses for a day or two and dropping them before sunday

what is the community's feeling on blocking? I think i'm within my right to do it, but fully admit it's a d-move.

edit2: thanks for your feedback so far. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?

 
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I see nothing wrong with picking up players for the purpose of keeping them off opponents roster as long as you actually keep the player (as opposed to grab and drop to make the player unavailable).

 
Your goal is to try and win games - in theory this could help you win the game, thus you are well within your right and within normal strategy to bid on the defenses. You'll feel pretty dumb if you don't do it and your opponent wins because the D he picks up scores enough to put him over the top

Have seen the strategy work, and have seen it backfire - many many years ago a team was in desperate need of a QB, one owner ended up picking up something like 5 of the available QBs to try and block - the owner in need of a QB ended up grabbing a backup QB that was playing that week for an injured starter - that backup ended up going off for 300+ yards and 4 scores and was the highest scoring QB for the week.

 
Long story short, nothing wrong with “the block”

you’re making a defensive claim to prevent an opponent from improving. 

No bad karma - just good strategy. 

That said, you might accidentally force your opponent into making a better move. 

;)  

 
If holding the players, no issue.  If picking them up and then dropping so they got locked, not cool at all and should be against your rules.  Even if not, complete dirt move.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Looking for it - there’s a bunch of good responses so I figured you’d want to see it.
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I remember it. My opponent specifically told me he took two different guys this week so that I wouldn't have them... 

The reason I try and leave my last move until after most of the games have been played (that helped me get Bortles when my Wentz went down)

 
We're here to win, not to make friends. So IMO I think it's just fine to grab a player to prevent your opponent from playing him. One catch, if you drop him before the games start I think that's a #### move. It's within the rules in my league, but I don't think it should be unless that player gets hurt or is dropped the same day you picked them up, making them a FA. 

 
acarey50 said:
Have seen the strategy work, and have seen it backfire - many many years ago a team was in desperate need of a QB, one owner ended up picking up something like 5 of the available QBs to try and block - the owner in need of a QB ended up grabbing a backup QB that was playing that week for an injured starter - that backup ended up going off for 300+ yards and 4 scores and was the highest scoring QB for the week.
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Ah, good ole Billy Volek. I lost to him in the playoffs that year. Probably my most painful fantasy loss to date. 

 
thanks for your feedback. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?

 
gianmarco said:
If holding the players, no issue.  If picking them up and then dropping so they got locked, not cool at all and should be against your rules.  Even if not, complete dirt move.
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I agree. I also take it upon myself to try and be a week ahead and make sure I have some depth in case I have an injury. This way I'm not fighting everyone for the flavor of the week and avoided getting C blocked to some extent..

 
If the rules don't have anything forbidding it then it is okay.  That said if it was in my league with friends I wouldn't do it.    

 
iamkoza said:
thanks for your feedback. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?
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Keeping him for a week takes up one of your roster spots, so you are playing defense but sacrificing a roster spot to do so. It hurts you in some way I suppose

Dumping a player a day later is a jerk move because all you're doing is WW churning; you're wanting that player to be frozen so no one else can roster them. You don't sacrifice a roster spot and you can pick up whoever you please. 

There's a huge difference. One is within the spirit of the rules, the other is not

 
Godsbrother said:
If the rules don't have anything forbidding it then it is okay.  That said if it was in my league with friends I wouldn't do it.    
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I'm in a big-money league with friends and it just happened to me this morning.  In fact, I expected it before I even checked the waiver results.

 
another thought:  He has no bidding bucks left which means he got some guys at your expense during the season.  It's his fault he has no money left.

 
Dr. Dan said:
We're here to win, not to make friends. So IMO I think it's just fine to grab a player to prevent your opponent from playing him. One catch, if you drop him before the games start I think that's a #### move. It's within the rules in my league, but I don't think it should be unless that player gets hurt or is dropped the same day you picked them up, making them a FA. 
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I have a rule in my league that says a player picked up must be kept on your roster for 1 week. Some owners pick guys up but then drop them for another. They will immediately email me why they did it, and I will go in and unlock that player. Happens a few times a year.

 
iamkoza said:
thanks for your feedback. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?
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Dropping right away/next day etc. is roster churning, and at least in all of my leagues, it is against the rules. Any player picked up must be kept for that week's games, or, kind of like @Dusty Rhodes says, the player will be unlocked and available for pick up.

 
I don't have a problem with active management of your team and blocking your competitors.  NFL teams follow a similar tactic by poaching the players from other team's practice squad or picking up waived players from their divisional opponents.  Patriots do this to the extreme, exploiting every opportunity to stay ahead of their especially divisional opponents.  Bottom line, always remember the immortal quote made by Herman Edwards, "You play to win the game".

 
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acarey50 said:
Dropping right away/next day etc. is roster churning, and at least in all of my leagues, it is against the rules. Any player picked up must be kept for that week's games, or, kind of like @Dusty Rhodes says, the player will be unlocked and available for pick up.
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interesting, i have no idea how you enforce that roster churning rule though. there are plenty of times when i inadvertently "roster churn" pick up player A... then have a "ooh shiny" moment and drop player A for player B before sunday. By your description i wouldnt be allowed to do that... otherwise you're starting to legislate intent which IMO is impossible.

In my ESPN league, as long as you hold a player for more than 24 hours, when dropped that player goes back on waivers for the waiver period (in my league 2 days). generally i'm of the opinion let the website rules dictate owner team management because otherwise when dealing with shades of grey things can become difficult to deal with.

 
iamkoza said:
thanks for your feedback. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?
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It's called churning because many leagues lock a player when dropped, so you can add a guy, drop him, add another, drop him, and churn through all the available free agents.  It's no cost to you and it blocks your opponent from adding any of the available options because they are now locked.

 
Hankmoody said:
It's called churning because many leagues lock a player when dropped, so you can add a guy, drop him, add another, drop him, and churn through all the available free agents.  It's no cost to you and it blocks your opponent from adding any of the available options because they are now locked.
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Easy to fix.  Institute a rule that says if a player is added and dropped before the game is played he doesn't go on waivers, but is instead a free agent.

 
JohnnyU said:
Easy to fix.  Institute a rule that says if a player is added and dropped before the game is played he doesn't go on waivers, but is instead a free agent.
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Well we don't even lock players in my redraft so don't have the issue, I was just answering the guy's question as to why.  Your suggestion still requires manual intervention by the owner and/or commission so it's best if owners just don't act like DB's in the first place.

 
Hankmoody said:
It's called churning because many leagues lock a player when dropped, so you can add a guy, drop him, add another, drop him, and churn through all the available free agents.  It's no cost to you and it blocks your opponent from adding any of the available options because they are now locked.
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i only do 2 leagues and both are through ESPN... that type of rapid fire add/dropping (churning) would not achieve the desired results... unless you hold a player on your roster for more than 24 hours... the dropped player immediately becomes a free agent... so it would be a futile exercise

 
iamkoza said:
i only do 2 leagues and both are through ESPN... that type of rapid fire add/dropping (churning) would not achieve the desired results... unless you hold a player on your roster for more than 24 hours... the dropped player immediately becomes a free agent... so it would be a futile exercise
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That's great but not all systems support that.

 
iamkoza said:
i only do 2 leagues and both are through ESPN... that type of rapid fire add/dropping (churning) would not achieve the desired results... unless you hold a player on your roster for more than 24 hours... the dropped player immediately becomes a free agent... so it would be a futile exercise
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This is how my league is too. But it doesn't stop people from doing the following:

My opponent has a kicker on a bye.  So I pick up a kicker Wednesday morning. Drop Thursday for another kicker. Drop Friday, pick up another. Drop Saturday, pick up another, Drop Sunday AM, pick up another. Drop Sunday. 

I've effectively shielded my opponent from 5 kickers. 

let's even go further, in my leagueI could drop a kicker who played at noon, pick up a 3:00 player, drop at 6 and pick up Sunday night kicker, Drop at 8 PM and pick up a Monday kicker. This acutally happened in our league

Guy had a kicker on a bye but did not want to drop him (NE kicker). He waited until after the Sunday games to see if he should drop someone to grab the MNF kicker to beat his opponent. His opponent didn't realize it and tried churning the WW on kickers on Sunday and even into Monday. The guy ended up not needing a kicker to beat his opponent, and did not pick one up. 

 
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gianmarco said:
If holding the players, no issue.  If picking them up and then dropping so they got locked, not cool at all and should be against your rules.  Even if not, complete dirt move.
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I think Fleaflicker has a setting where a newly added player locks 48 hour before their game or something to avoid this kind of garbage. Forces you to keep the player or drop him and give the people a chance to pick them up.

 
Dr. Dan said:
This is how my league is too. But it doesn't stop people from doing the following:

My opponent has a kicker on a bye.  So I pick up a kicker Wednesday morning. Drop Thursday for another kicker. Drop Friday, pick up another. Drop Saturday, pick up another, Drop Sunday AM, pick up another. Drop Sunday. 

I've effectively shielded my opponent from 5 kickers. 

let's even go further, in my leagueI could drop a kicker who played at noon, pick up a 3:00 player, drop at 6 and pick up Sunday night kicker, Drop at 8 PM and pick up a Monday kicker. This acutally happened in our league

Guy had a kicker on a bye but did not want to drop him (NE kicker). He waited until after the Sunday games to see if he should drop someone to grab the MNF kicker to beat his opponent. His opponent didn't realize it and tried churning the WW on kickers on Sunday and even into Monday. The guy ended up not needing a kicker to beat his opponent, and did not pick one up. 
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You play in an amateur league  . . . .

And your transaction fees are too low

 
iamkoza said:
my opponent this week has zero FAAB budget left and if we tie on a $0 bid i get the player based on waiver tiebreaker... he needs a defense and i am considering bidding on 2 defenses just to block

edit: if it matters i would essentially be holding the defenses for a day or two and dropping them before sunday

what is the community's feeling on blocking? I think i'm within my right to do it, but fully admit it's a d-move.

edit2: thanks for your feedback so far. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?
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This is a big part of FF strategy at the end of the season.   Absolutely legit, imo.

 
gianmarco said:
If holding the players, no issue.  If picking them up and then dropping so they got locked, not cool at all and should be against your rules.  Even if not, complete dirt move.
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THIS.   Don't churn your roster to block, that is a d&% move.   If you hold the pick up on your roster, ok. 

 
iamkoza said:
edit2: thanks for your feedback so far. i didnt expect to see the consensus opinion that it was ok, but as long as they stay on your roster for the week. i guess i dont see a tangible difference between rostering and holding the player for one weekend vs. rostering and dropping a day later. what am i missing here?
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You have roster limits, right? Otherwise one person could pick up every single player on the waiver wire, right?

When you pick up a player, part of that cost is giving up a player and using a roster spot. By picking up players just to lock them and drop them in the same week, you are effectively increasing your roster limit artificially to keep players away. This is why many leagues that lock players when dropped also have a setting that players picked up and dropped in the same week are NOT locked. 

If you pick them up and burn a roster spot and give up someone, that's legit. Burning through a waiver wire by picking up every player, theoretically, and dropping them so no one is available is not legit. Surely you can see the difference.

 
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spodog said:
THIS.   Don't churn your roster to block, that is a d&% move.   If you hold the pick up on your roster, ok. 
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true. its one tbing to pick up,say, Rodgers this week to block the guy who lost wentz ( if rodgers plays that is but you get the pt) .we put in a rule against add drops that keep a guy on waivers week after week..just allow any player picked up and dropped in same week to STILL be available in the same week..so you cant grab player x on waiver night drop him on next night pick another guy and do the same thing. thats dbag for sure. or limit postseason waiver moves to only 1 per team, per week. problem solved

 
Tanner9919 said:
true. its one tbing to pick up,say, Rodgers this week to block the guy who lost wentz ( if rodgers plays that is but you get the pt) .we put in a rule against add drops that keep a guy on waivers week after week..just allow any player picked up and dropped in same week to STILL be available in the same week..so you cant grab player x on waiver night drop him on next night pick another guy and do the same thing. thats dbag for sure. or limit postseason waiver moves to only 1 per team, per week. problem solved
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yep,  good rule

 
Dr. Dan said:
This is how my league is too. But it doesn't stop people from doing the following:

My opponent has a kicker on a bye.  So I pick up a kicker Wednesday morning. Drop Thursday for another kicker. Drop Friday, pick up another. Drop Saturday, pick up another, Drop Sunday AM, pick up another. Drop Sunday. 

I've effectively shielded my opponent from 5 kickers. 

let's even go further, in my leagueI could drop a kicker who played at noon, pick up a 3:00 player, drop at 6 and pick up Sunday night kicker, Drop at 8 PM and pick up a Monday kicker. This acutally happened in our league

Guy had a kicker on a bye but did not want to drop him (NE kicker). He waited until after the Sunday games to see if he should drop someone to grab the MNF kicker to beat his opponent. His opponent didn't realize it and tried churning the WW on kickers on Sunday and even into Monday. The guy ended up not needing a kicker to beat his opponent, and did not pick one up. 
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We put a rule in only 2 WW moves per week because of moves like this.  If you want to block with your 2 moves that is fine.

 
KingPrawn said:
You play in an amateur league  . . . .

And your transaction fees are too low
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free transactions, so yeah too low I guess.

I won't advocate for transaction fees. I'm someone who makes a lot of moves each year. 3-4x as many as most of the league, so this would hurt me the most.
We have very short benches in our league, so people are typically dropping meaningful players when they pull stunts like that, so IMO it hurts them in the long run


Most guys don't churn our WW. In fact, it never happens except near playoffs or during playoffs when people start getting desperate. That's why I always just have my roster good to go 2 weeks ahead of time so that someone can't screw me over.

 
I don't understand how you can block him on multiple players. Your waiver priority is good for every move you make that week? If so, that's really dumb. As soon as you make one waiver move, you should always move to the end of the line for that week until another move is made. That prevents something like this from ever happening.

 
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