Really? I'd love that as a Jets fan with the #3 pick - but I'm not sure this is related. Interesting view though and hope it's correct.I suspected NYG would take Chubb, this all but confirms that.
It is curious...I can't believe they would 100% lock in on a player like Chubb this early...not with the chance they could get some real sweetheart deal for a team looking to move into that #2...if they are not gonna go QB they have to leave all their options open...Really? I'd love that as a Jets fan with the #3 pick - but I'm not sure this is related. Interesting view though and hope it's correct.
Unless they viewed Chubb as a can't miss All-Pro player I agree.It is curious...I can't believe they would 100% lock in on a player like Chubb this early...not with the chance they could get some real sweetheart deal for a team looking to move into that #2...if they are not gonna go QB they have to leave all their options open...
Are the Giants going to a 3-4 base?If they go to more of a 3-4 he didn’t really seem to fit.
And he has a chance to be...great prospect and they may take him...I just don't see them showing their hand this early...as good as Chubb may be there is a chance that the Giants could get one of those over-the-top deals that can change a team's future...especially if they are not locked in at the QB position with the #2...Unless they viewed Chubb as a can't miss All-Pro player I agree.
I think they just needed to clear some cap space and added a third round pick in the process. It's not like having two very good pass rushers would be a terrible thing if they loved Chubb.
He's a clone of Chandler Jones who had a lot of success in Bettcher's system. Credit to @onionsack here, but:Really? I'd love that as a Jets fan with the #3 pick - but I'm not sure this is related. Interesting view though and hope it's correct.
That's fair, but I can't see why else they would make this move otherwise. This gives them "a part of" the haul they would get for moving down without moving down. IND got 3 2nd's, NYG just got a 3 and a 4 for not moving and taking his replacement. You can't just not have a pass rush and this leaves them only with Vernon. Moving back doesn't preclude them getting Chubb if they go to 5. Maybe they get a 2nd and a 3rd and their net is now 2/3/3/4 and still getting younger and more flexible at EDGE. Teams don't tend to trade down out of premium tiers - even the Colts stayed at 6 presumably for a shot at Chubb/Barkely/Nelson, and I think NYG would likely do the same.It is curious...I can't believe they would 100% lock in on a player like Chubb this early...not with the chance they could get some real sweetheart deal for a team looking to move into that #2...if they are not gonna go QB they have to leave all their options open...
In all honesty we could actually be over-thinking this and it could be as simple as wanting to move on from JPP and his 17.5 mil cap hit...new coach/new GM...may simply not see him as part of the future...he is 29 and making big time $..He's a clone of Chandler Jones who had a lot of success in Bettcher's system. Credit to @onionsack here, but:
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765225-nfl-trades/?do=findComment&comment=20896952
"Looking at his time in Arizona, his scheme was 4-2-5 48% of the time, 3-4-4 26% of the time and 3-3-5 17% of the time (according to PFF)."
Just over 40% of the time he lined up with 3 man fronts. I don't know how well JPP and Chubb would play together in that format plus you gotta fit Vernon in there.. One of the keys to that is having DE's that can be a bull edge-setter and reduce inside while having that edge guy (Mack, Chandler Jones) be able to work at different spots on the field - both OLB's, both ends as speed rush, etc. Oakland played this type of defense later in 2015 and had the most success they have had in recent memory with that strategy.
That's fair, but I can't see why else they would make this move otherwise. This gives them "a part of" the haul they would get for moving down without moving down. IND got 3 2nd's, NYG just got a 3 and a 4 for not moving and taking his replacement. You can't just not have a pass rush and this leaves them only with Vernon. Moving back doesn't preclude them getting Chubb if they go to 5. Maybe they get a 2nd and a 3rd and their net is now 2/3/3/4 and still getting younger and more flexible at EDGE. Teams don't tend to trade down out of premium tiers - even the Colts stayed at 6 presumably for a shot at Chubb/Barkely/Nelson, and I think NYG would likely do the same.
Good point.Giants are blowing up their roster?
That's what I'm thinking. If they like one of the QBs, taking one at #2 makes sense. They can lose Manning after this year and save 17 mill in cap.They just traded their best pass rusher, that isn't setting the table to take a DE and make a Super Bowl run.
Yep. In 2004 they had Kurt Warner and not only took Rivers they traded their 2nd, 5th, and 1st the next year PLUS Rivers to get Eli so this talk that they have Eli so they wouldn't take a QB doesn't hold water.That's what I'm thinking. If they like one of the QBs, taking one at #2 makes sense. They can lose Manning after this year and save 17 mill in cap.
Why wouldn't they have traded Manning to Jacksonville or Denver already if they were going full rebuild mode? Keeping him seems counterintuitive to that, but I agree this move does lend itself to the notion of rebuilding.That's what I'm thinking. If they like one of the QBs, taking one at #2 makes sense. They can lose Manning after this year and save 17 mill in cap.
Kurt Warner was thought to be finished at that time (the Rams chose Marc Bulger over him in fact) and wasn't very good with the Giants - he did have a resurgence with the Cards though.Yep. In 2004 they had Kurt Warner and not only took Rivers they traded their 2nd, 5th, and 1st the next year PLUS Rivers to get Eli so this talk that they have Eli so they wouldn't take a QB doesn't hold water.
Who started that season when they made a huge trade to take Eli? Warner or Manning?Kurt Warner was thought to be finished at that time (the Rams chose Marc Bulger over him in fact) and wasn't very good with the Giants - he did have a resurgence with the Cards though.
That move was two GMs ago - so I'm not sure it's relevant. Like I said above at this point, I think they wind up trading down - Buffalo just has way too much ammo and desperation not to move up. Maybe they take Rudolph or Jackson with the 22 pick - but yesterday the back page stories listed their top three players on their draft board as 1. Barkely 2. Chubb and 3. Nelson - so maybe they just don't like the QBs enough in the draft. Of course that story could be speculative or even bogus as well. The NY papers outside of the Times are rags.
That's what I'm thinking. If they like one of the QBs, taking one at #2 makes sense. They can lose Manning after this year and save 17 mill in cap.
I don't want to read too much into this trade but they could still trade Eli on draft day.Why wouldn't they have traded Manning to Jacksonville or Denver already if they were going full rebuild mode? Keeping him seems counterintuitive to that, but I agree this move does lend itself to the notion of rebuilding.
A lot of information that comes out this time of year is calculated - but locally there is a lot of talk that many in the organization think they have their heir apparent at QB already in house, Davis Webb.
At this point I think Buffalo blows their door off and they move back - which does lend credence to a rebuild as well - but if they stand pat I don't think taking Chubb or Barkely takes away from that notion either. They could replace JPP for much cheaper, get a guy that fits their new system better while picking up a third round pick.
So I guess whoever the Browns take at QB will be a bust because all of the QBs they took in the past were busts?Who started that season when they made a huge trade to take Eli? Warner or Manning?
Rinse and repeat this year but Manning will start and act as the bridge for the rookie.
The two teams where it would make the most sense for him to land - Jax and Denver have filled their QB slots - although I suppose Jax could push Bortles to the backup slot. But, true.I don't want to read too much into this trade but they could still trade Eli on draft day.
Unless they viewed Chubb as a can't miss All-Pro player I agree.
I think they just needed to clear some cap space and added a third round pick in the process. It's not like having two very good pass rushers would be a terrible thing if they loved Chubb.
Good question. If I had to make an argument for why I think they would keep Manning, for now, and draft a QB, I would say:Why wouldn't they have traded Manning to Jacksonville or Denver already if they were going full rebuild mode?
The Bucs got JPP and the Giants 4th round pick. Giants got the Bucs 3rd and 4th round picks.I'm surprised they were able to get a 3rd rounder for JPP. He is approaching 30 years of age and his performance, while good, wasn't worth the salary he was being paid IMO.
Hopefully the Giants either take a QB at 2 or trade back and get Nelson as their future Guard. Beef up the O-line.
Right, so the Giants essentially got a 3rd round pick for JPP since the 4ths more or less cancel out, no?The Bucs got JPP and the Giants 4th round pick. Giants got the Bucs 3rd and 4th round picks.
yes - they are only about six picks apart so basically meaningless.Right, so the Giants essentially got a 3rd round pick for JPP since the 4ths more or less cancel out, no?
I mostly agree with this. JPP isn't an elite player at this point. He's a solid piece, but i'm not sure he's even a full time player going forward. The Giants have a promising young prospect in Avery Moss, and could easily take a pass rusher at the top of round 2, or if they trade down. I certainly don't think this locks them into Chubb at all.I'm surprised they were able to get a 3rd rounder for JPP. He is approaching 30 years of age and his performance, while good, wasn't worth the salary he was being paid IMO.
Hopefully the Giants either take a QB at 2 or trade back and get Nelson as their future Guard. Beef up the O-line.
Went from probably the worst defensive line in football to a team strength in one off-season. Not easy to do.Nice work by the Bucs adding JPP and Vinny Curry. Plus some other decent bodies to their defense. Good upgrades.
I think they are gaining the necessary draft capital to move to #1 overall and get Darnold. End of story. Cleveland still gets their guy Allen at #2 while adding some picks from the Giants. Sending the whole organization to watch Darnold throw was smoke and mirrors... but it obviously worked the Giants into a frenzy.