msommer
Footballguy
You would be wrong. I'm Danish (and the people of Greenland much prefer not to be called Eskimos)
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Megyn Kelly (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter pantherclub
- Start date
Osaurus
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
It's not necessarily about how good you are, but about your intent. If Kimmel was sincerely trying to impersonate Karl Malone's style of speaking (but he just happened to suck at it), then I'd give him a pass and I think most other people would, too. But if Kimmel was just doing a stereotypical "Stepin Fetchit" impression, then I wouldn't give him a pass and I don't think most people would, either.
See this is where I don't think we seem to agree. I thought most of Megyn Kelly's thing was she was saying with good intent it was ok. That a white person who loved Diana Ross could dress up and put makeup on to look like Diana Ross.
That's when Patton Oswalt came down hard saying it's hasn't been ok for at least 30 years and he learned that clearly as a kid who loved Nipsey Russell and had the worst Halloween of his life after dressing like him.
I can see the argument for intent. But I thought we agreed intent didn't matter.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
You've mentioned this (at least) twice now. Apparently not everyone agrees that intent doesn't matter. Pretty sure people won't discuss it specifically from that angle if they don't feel that way.
timschochet
Footballguy
I think intent matters. It’s not the only factor but I think it’s the biggest factor (at least it is in terms of my opinion of the person in question.)
[scooter]
Footballguy
I know that many people say that intent doesn't matter. But I personally believe that intent does matter, and I think most of America agrees with me. I've cited multiple real-life examples of non-black people putting on darker makeup to make themselves look like more like black people (e.g., Maya Rudolph and Frank Caliendo), and those examples did NOT generate widespread cries of racism. Why? Because it was obvious that those impressions were meant as a tribute, not meant to stereotype.
I have been pretty consistent in my belief that "wearing darker makeup" is not the same thing as "blackface". "Blackface" has been historically defined as a caricature of black stereotypes -- super-dark skin, big red lips, white eyes, etc.. In my opinion, dark makeup does not necessarily make it a caricature -- although I suppose that there is a sliding scale involved and at some point even a heartfelt tribute is capable of crossing the line.
I think Megyn Kelly makes a good point about a white person being able to wear makeup to look like Diana Ross. But I think Megyn Kelly is the wrong person to be leading that discussion. She has a history of being racially divisive, and so I don't trust her.
As for Patton Oswalt, I'd have to see his Nipsey Russell Halloween costume before passing judgment.
Thanks. I think where I'd disagree though is that most of America agrees with you. Although I don't really know. It felt like very little of America agreed with you that intent matters when it came to Megyn Kelly.I know that many people say that intent doesn't matter. But I personally believe that intent does matter, and I think most of America agrees with me. I've cited multiple real-life examples of non-black people putting on darker makeup to make themselves look like more like black people (e.g., Maya Rudolph and Frank Caliendo), and those examples did NOT generate widespread cries of racism. Why? Because it was obvious that those impressions were meant as a tribute, not meant to stereotype.
I have been pretty consistent in my belief that "wearing darker makeup" is not the same thing as "blackface". "Blackface" has been historically defined as a caricature of black stereotypes -- super-dark skin, big red lips, white eyes, etc.. In my opinion, dark makeup does not necessarily make it a caricature -- although I suppose that there is a sliding scale involved and at some point even a heartfelt tribute is capable of crossing the line.
I think Megyn Kelly makes a good point about a white person being able to wear makeup to look like Diana Ross. But I think Megyn Kelly is the wrong person to be leading that discussion. She has a history of being racially divisive, and so I don't trust her.
As for Patton Oswalt, I'd have to see his Nipsey Russell Halloween costume before passing judgment.
But you're likely right, I think it matters who the person is.
It looks a bit like intent doesn't matter when it's Megyn Kelly. But intent matters when it's Jimmy Kimmel. That's likely reality.
Thanks for the discussion.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
FWIW - Maya Rudolph's mother is african american.I know that many people say that intent doesn't matter. But I personally believe that intent does matter, and I think most of America agrees with me. I've cited multiple real-life examples of non-black people putting on darker makeup to make themselves look like more like black people (e.g., Maya Rudolph and Frank Caliendo), and those examples did NOT generate widespread cries of racism. Why? Because it was obvious that those impressions were meant as a tribute, not meant to stereotype.
I have been pretty consistent in my belief that "wearing darker makeup" is not the same thing as "blackface". "Blackface" has been historically defined as a caricature of black stereotypes -- super-dark skin, big red lips, white eyes, etc.. In my opinion, dark makeup does not necessarily make it a caricature -- although I suppose that there is a sliding scale involved and at some point even a heartfelt tribute is capable of crossing the line.
I think Megyn Kelly makes a good point about a white person being able to wear makeup to look like Diana Ross. But I think Megyn Kelly is the wrong person to be leading that discussion. She has a history of being racially divisive, and so I don't trust her.
As for Patton Oswalt, I'd have to see his Nipsey Russell Halloween costume before passing judgment.
toshiba
Footballguy
I think you two arrive at a very reasonable position. Maybe a more compromised wording you both might agree with is that perceived intent matters. What I mean is that someone like Megyn Kelly has a perceived racist background and thus perceived racist meaning, whereas someone like Jimmy Kimmel does not have a percived racist past and thus something like this from him would not be perceived as racist.Joe Bryant said:Thanks. I think where I'd disagree though is that most of America agrees with you. Although I don't really know. It felt like very little of America agreed with you that intent matters when it came to Megyn Kelly.[scooter] said:I know that many people say that intent doesn't matter. But I personally believe that intent does matter, and I think most of America agrees with me. I've cited multiple real-life examples of non-black people putting on darker makeup to make themselves look like more like black people (e.g., Maya Rudolph and Frank Caliendo), and those examples did NOT generate widespread cries of racism. Why? Because it was obvious that those impressions were meant as a tribute, not meant to stereotype.
I have been pretty consistent in my belief that "wearing darker makeup" is not the same thing as "blackface". "Blackface" has been historically defined as a caricature of black stereotypes -- super-dark skin, big red lips, white eyes, etc.. In my opinion, dark makeup does not necessarily make it a caricature -- although I suppose that there is a sliding scale involved and at some point even a heartfelt tribute is capable of crossing the line.
I think Megyn Kelly makes a good point about a white person being able to wear makeup to look like Diana Ross. But I think Megyn Kelly is the wrong person to be leading that discussion. She has a history of being racially divisive, and so I don't trust her.
As for Patton Oswalt, I'd have to see his Nipsey Russell Halloween costume before passing judgment.
But you're likely right, I think it matters who the person is.
It looks a bit like intent doesn't matter when it's Megyn Kelly. But intent matters when it's Jimmy Kimmel. That's likely reality.
Thanks for the discussion.
toshiba
Footballguy
You can do a lot of things. Most people aren't when they let their kids dress up as Pocahontas or Black Panther. But here we are.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
This is greatDa Guru said:
Sweet J
Footballguy
That reminds me of the Saturday Night Live skit with The Rock, who was an "evil scientist" at an Evil Scientist Contest. They all had to submit their inventions for the most evil thing ever. So made a robot that molested children. The crowd of evil scientists were horrified.
I get it. This guy is like "well, everybody is dressing up as murderers, why is one murderer worse than others." But . . . it just is, chief. Now stand over in a corner with The Rock.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think there’s a massive difference between wearing a fictional character’s superhero costume and dressing in blackface.
Wakandan cultural appropriation is a decent place to draw the line IMO.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
G
Guest
Guest
Al O'Pecia
Footballguy
No, I doubt Corolla hopes the Man Show completely disappears so he doesn't have to worry about apologizing for it.Henry Ford said:
As Adam regularly notes he built a pirate ship so that he's in control of his own destiny and no corporate exec or HR hag can tell him what to say or think.
Adam is also co-producing a documentary with Dennis Prager called "No Space Spaces" about PC culture which critiques things like being triggered by a costume as was an infamous incident at Yale.
Jimmy may care because he has more to lose and has to cater to ABC's demands, but Adam is probably itching for someone to call him on a Man Show skit so he can go on a rant over our fake outrage culture.
Doug B
Footballguy
The Black Panther example is interesting. In his superhero suit, Black Panther has no visible skin -- the kid underneath could be of any skin color and any ethnicity.
Now. Does Black Panther "belong" to the wider African-American "community"? If a Caucasian child wore the whole skin-covering Black Panther get-up to go trick-or-treating, and an African-American person sees that same child take off the Black Panther mask ... does that African-American person have a legitimate claim to actionable** offense?
** "Actionable" meaning "it's reasonable, right, and proper to react publicly about it" -- tell the kid something, take a photo and splash is all over social media as something offensive, etc.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Just tell the other kids he's Hunter, the White Wolf. Pretty sure he wore the suit a few times in the comics.
NCCommish
Footballguy
You know the thing is blackface is one thing. This whole everything is cultural appropriation is another. If your white boy or girl wants to dress as Black Panther as long as we don't black face rock on. Just like if your Black, Hispanic, Asian or otherwise not Nordic son or daughter wants to be Thor have at it. We should be so glad that kids just see a hero they have respect for and want to emulate with no racial concerns. That's a step in the right direction. You can be Capt America and not be white. You can be iron Man and be a girl. Isn't that what we keep saying we want? Isn't that the kind of world we are trying to move towards? And at the end of the day if you emulate a hair style that isn't typically associated with your race isn't that saying this is attractive and I like It? Isn't that really a good thing? I get when we talk about movie roles using traditional characters and switching their race. I can see that and understand the argument. Lack of roles for minority characters and all that. But Halloween costumes, hair styles, fashion? Yeah not so much.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
I'm sure all of your buddies will get it. Haha, you funny.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I remember two things about this show (four, if you count trampolines) - the guy who accepted a hundred dollar bill to eat stick of butter, and Ziggy ziggy!
Roy L Fewks
Footballguy
Corolla would never apologize for doing anything racist. Because he's racist. And pretty proud of it.
Al O'Pecia
Footballguy
I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic, but if it's the former have fun on your search for microagressions today.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Flipping around the dial last night, I happened across HBO and saw that Kelly was on Maher's show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxbht2rR-As
If nothing else, I am sure most of us (see: sensible people) can agree with their takes that the cancel culture is ridiculous and out of control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxbht2rR-As
If nothing else, I am sure most of us (see: sensible people) can agree with their takes that the cancel culture is ridiculous and out of control.
She is closer to what journalists should be than 90 percent of what is out there. She is actually watchable and not just because she is an attractive lady.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Absolutely. I saw this also this morning on my YouTube feed. Great appearance on the show. Maher should have more Conservatives like her instead of stacking his show with liberals and getting the biggest conservative idiot he can find.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
True, but I am not sure she can be a success with a show of her own anymore. The one-sided feud with Trump resulted in a lot of conservatives turning on her, and despite her "best" efforts following her move to NBC, a lot of liberals will never trust or watch her, so she is essentially stuck in no-man's land. Or is it no-person's land? I can't keep up anymore.
He has to play to his core audience. I suspect most of his viewers watch his show to be entertained and have their views reinforced, not challenged. Heck, just look at how some of his liberal guests get pissy every time he criticizes liberals for anything.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nipsey
Footballguy
Most conservatives won't appear on that show. They can only book those willing to come on. They know the show is more interesting with a diverse panel. Andrew Breitbart, as big a lunatic as he was, was probably the best guest the show ever had.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Maher frequently has conservatives on his show and almost always has at least 1 on his panel. And he frequently criticizes the liberal elite.
BTW, I thought his interview with Kelly was very good. I always liked her and watched her Fox show often if not nightly.
Last edited by a moderator:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I have nothing "excellent" to say about this person (and actually consider any respect for her as an intellectual disqualifier), so cannot comment on her preposterous appearance on Real Time. 
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I watch every week. There's almost always a conservative on the panel. This weekend he had Eric Erickson.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
No. People should be known for their their accomplishments. A few odd comments out of hundreds of thousands does not define a person.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Plus, it kind of goes back to what she and Maher talked about, the whole idea of judging someone based off of their worst moment and wanting to cancel them because of it.
Similar threads
