Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Can’t imagine the crap that is going to hit in October.
He did already release these -- he put out a summary letter from his physician (Congressional doctor of like 20 something years) and two more from cardiologists post heart attack. That's on par with Biden and Bloomberg (who each have released just a single summary letter), and maybe slightly behind Warren (who released a letter + like the result of a blood test or something?).Sanders won’t release his medical records.
- I don’t think his actual records are necessary but medical summaries would be good. Guy’s 78 with a legit condition.
WASHINGTON — House Democrats, recovering from their failed push to remove President Donald Trump from office, are making a sharp pivot to talking about health care and economic issues, turning away from their investigations of the president as they focus on preserving their majority.
Only took them 3.5 years of failure after failure to figure it out.
I know this is anathema to our cynicism about the parties, but maybe, just maybe, they impeached Donald Trump because he should have been and they saw that the civic duty of bringing forth the Articles of Impeachment was more important to the safety and security of the country than politicking about previous conditions w/r/t healthcare.
It's almost like the 2018 midterms didn't happen in the minds of many of you. These are exactly the things that won them their seats a year and a half ago. They certainly seemed to forget about it shortly after that major success for whatever reason, but seem to be getting back to it now.
It could be. I'd hope that our elected officials we appoint to office would be capable of doing more than one thing at a time though. If not, we're in trouble. This isn't an either/or set of events the best I can tell. It's been very frustrating and annoying to watch the Democrats continually blow all the opportunities provided them by talking about Trump 24x7 instead of talking about their plans to help the country. It's an easy trap to fall into, but it's an obvious trap. It should be pretty clear to anyone paying attention that the last thing Trump or his handlers want is him talking about policy and the Dems can't seem to keep their message straight and focused on the issues.I know this is anathema to our cynicism about the parties, but maybe, just maybe, they impeached Donald Trump because he should have been and they saw the civic duty of bringing forth the Articles of Impeachment was more important to the safety and security of the country than politicking about previous conditions w/r/t healthcare.
It's almost like the 2018 midterms didn't happen in the minds of many of you. These are exactly the things that won them their seats a year and a half ago. They certainly seemed to forget about it shortly after that major success for whatever reason, but seem to be getting back to it now.
It could really be that, couldn't it be?
That's likely true. I am less sanguine about your premise that they should be devoting their full attention to both. I'm not sure it is possible.It could be. I'd hope that our elected officials we appoint to office would be capable of doing more than one thing at a time though. If not, we're in trouble. This isn't an either/or set of events the best I can tell. It's been very frustrating and annoying to watch the Democrats continually blow all the opportunities provided them by talking about Trump 24x7 instead of talking about their plans to help the country. It's an easy trap to fall into, but it's an obvious trap. It should be pretty clear to anyone paying attention that the last thing Trump or his handlers want is him talking about policy and the Dems can't seem to keep their message straight and focused on the issues.
To be clear, I am talking about the messaging. That takes little work. That's just some in front of the cameras during the news cycles. It's pretty clear, the work they've been doing based on the stacks of bills sitting on McConnell's desk. Obviously, "full attention to both" is not attainable. That literally can't happen, but it's clear to me that the Dems are terrible at messaging...it's tough to watch at times.That's likely true. I am less sanguine about your premise that they should be devoting their full attention to both. I'm not sure it is possible.
But that's from the outside looking in. I don't know enough to give an expert analysis of the roles and work impeachment took.
Ah, I see. I wasn't really being contentious. I'm not sure myself if they could do both. But yes, the work does seem to be building on McConnell's desk.To be clear, I am talking about the messaging. That takes little work. That's just some in front of the cameras during the news cycles. It's pretty clear, the work they've been doing based on the stacks of bills sitting on McConnell's desk. Obviously, "full attention to both" is not attainable. That literally can't happen, but it's clear to me that the Dems are terrible at messaging...it's tough to watch at times.
Go back in the way back machine to that race for a minute though. Bernie never protested at the time really about the rigging and folded like a cheap suit in the end.If they had something that damaging on Bernie and the Clintons/DNC didn't use it to burn (Bern?) him to the ground I'd be stunned.
This was always the likely outcome, which is why I didn't think Bloomberg would enter and why I was so unhappy when he did. Hopefully the next two debates bring hi down to earth and balance the ad campaign.the result is that he, Buttigieg, Biden and Klobuchar are still dividing the vote. The result is Bernie has a double digit lead in California.
That really is not my impression at all. I think he hung on way too long in 2016, acted like an petulant, immature child, and did serious damage to Hillary Clinton’s attempt to unify the Democrats.Go back in the way back machine to that race for a minute though. Bernie never protested at the time really about the rigging and folded like a cheap suit in the end.
Not saying the Bloomberg camp has something on him, but Bernie really went out with a whimper in 2016 and always left some of us scratching our heads why.
no worriesAh, I see. I wasn't really being contentious. I'm not sure myself if they could do both. But yes, the work does seem to be building on McConnell's desk.
Crazy to think that a centrist couldn't win in today's climate when a centrist seems to be exactly what we need for political stability's sake. At least that's how I feel.Anyhow, I’ve already written my belief that if Bernie wins the nomination he will likely lose the election- see Jeremy Corbyn- though of course I hope I’m wrong about that.
But even beyond that, his nomination makes me feel like there is no place for me, or people like me, in our political system at this time. It seems like on both sides the extremists have taken over.
And don’t get me wrong- from a purely entertainment perspective, if you are a political junkie like I am, there would almost be nothing better than a Bernie vs Trump showdown. It will be an absolute circus, totally unpredictable and wild. Populist vs populist. It’s just that the stakes are a little higher than a sporting event.Crazy to think that a centrist couldn't win in today's climate when a centrist seems to be exactly what we need for political stability's sake. At least that's how I feel.
I'm not sure I could be entertained given how I feel about populism unchecked and given, as you point out, what's at stake.And don’t get me wrong- from a purely entertainment perspective, if you are a political junkie like I am, there would almost be nothing better than a Bernie vs Trump showdown. It will be an absolute circus, totally unpredictable and wild. Populist vs populist. It’s just that the stakes are a little higher than a sporting event.
I think a centrist could win, but the process and ego is getting in the wayCrazy to think that a centrist couldn't win in today's climate when a centrist seems to be exactly what we need for political stability's sake. At least that's how I feel.
Perhaps we're seeing a splintering of coalitions that lasted for so long and that's the answer. I wonder if someone more up on it than us has delved into exactly where we're fracturing within these coalitions. Or is it that we've all become so accustomed to purity tests that we now reflexively hold minor flaws or disagreements against people to our detriment? Or, lastly, is it just that the political class we've been dealt has been that bad?I think a centrist could win, but the process and ego is getting in the way
In 2016, four relatively moderate candidates (Bush, Cruz, Kasich. Rubio) split the vote,potentially paving the way for Trump's nomination.
In 2020, four relatively moderate candidates (Biden, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Klobuchar) are splitting the vote.....
But this is always the way extremists win elections. If you study history, extremist candidates NEVER have a majority of voters. In the rare instances when they win its because the opposition is too divided.Or there were just too many candidates in the races competing for attention.
Support something radical for a change, something that does real good and probably cuts down on the extremists' influence -- election reform. Primary reform. There are far better ways to do things than the ways we do them now. Our current methods probably discourage centrist voters and give the extremists' far too much influence. But the centrist Democrats (we won't even talk about Republicans and election reform, they're still a century or so out on that) won't get behind reforms because they fear their own power being diluted.But this is always the way extremists win elections. If you study history, extremist candidates NEVER have a majority of voters. In the rare instances when they win its because the opposition is too divided.
So, you've brought up this Corbyn reference a few times now, and I still don't get it. Corbyn is generally loathed by his own supporters. Why do you think that's similar enough to any of our candidate options to continually bring him up?Anyhow, I’ve already written my belief that if Bernie wins the nomination he will likely lose the election- see Jeremy Corbyn- though of course I hope I’m wrong about that.
But even beyond that, his nomination makes me feel like there is no place for me, or people like me, in our political system at this time. It seems like on both sides the extremists have taken over.
Because I think that, in both Britain and the United States, deep down in our psyches we reject the whole idea of socialism. It goes way beyond any specific political issue, and I’m also not talking about certain conservatives who always like to bring up dictatorships. It has more to do with that, in our core, we believe in individualism and self-reliance. Whether these ideas actually exist, whether they’ve always been fantasy, doesn’t matter; we believe in them as an ideal. And I just think that in the end somebody who calls himself a socialist is never going to get elected President, not even against a corrupt authoritarian jerk like Donald Trump. In the end he’s going to get blown out of the water because he is not how we see ourselves.So, you've brought up this Corbyn reference a few times now, and I still don't get it. Corbyn is generally loathed by his own supporters. Why do you think that's similar enough to any of our candidate options to continually bring him up?
Interesting. I can't explain why Bernie embraces the term Democratic Socialist or even Socialist. He's neither if we go by the actual definitions. If we can acknowledge that they don't exist, then that's a step forward. What's illogical is the leaps one has to take to essentially say "Hey, I know he's not a socialist as that ideal isn't represented in his positions, but that's what he calls himself so I am going to reject him". That's the position it takes to reject Bernie.Because I think that, in both Britain and the United States, deep down in our psyches we reject the whole idea of socialism. It goes way beyond any specific political issue, and I’m also not talking about certain conservatives who always like to bring up dictatorships. It has more to do with that, in our core, we believe in individualism and self-reliance. Whether these ideas actually exist, whether they’ve always been fantasy, doesn’t matter; we believe in them as an ideal. And I just think that in the end somebody who calls himself a socialist is never going to get elected President, not even against a corrupt authoritarian jerk like Donald Trump. In the end he’s going to get blown out of the water because he is not how we see ourselves.
And that, IMO, is what happened to Jeremy Corbyn and that’s why I have compared Bernie to him, and to George McGovern as well. Take it with a grain of salt, but that’s what I think.
I noticed the anecdotal voter in that case was an elderly woman who was sick of Trump and his low class deriding of John McCain. I wonder for how many people stuff like that is the real exposure they have of him, and whether or not people will vote against that. I personally view it, with no links to back it up, as something that is large enough to cause me not to vote for him. I was immediately turned off by the mocking of the disabled reporter, and it continued.
Whatever, Bernie endorsed her and campaigned with her more than Obama did in 2016. It was only after the dust settled well after the election that Bernie admitted Hillary and the DNC rigged the primary.That really is not my impression at all. I think he hung on way too long in 2016, acted like an petulant, immature child, and did serious damage to Hillary Clinton’s attempt to unify the Democrats.
If you believe nothing else, believe me when I say that I do NOT want to be the “I told you so guy”. I’ve never wanted that, I get nothing out of it, and I especially don’t want it in this instance. If Bernie is the nominee I hope to Hell he wins big.Interesting. I can't explain why Bernie embraces the term Democratic Socialist or even Socialist. He's neither if we go by the actual definitions. If we can acknowledge that they don't exist, then that's a step forward. What's illogical is the leaps one has to take to essentially say "Hey, I know he's not a socialist as that ideal isn't represented in his positions, but that's what he calls himself so I am going to reject him". That's the position it takes to reject Bernie.
However, I don't believe any of that applies to Corbyn. His primary support comes from voting against the other guy. Thats his source of support. It's not because they believe in his message and/or approach. Bernie's source is rooted in groups of people who believe in what he's saying. It's rooted in people who see him as morally superior to Trump. None of that applies to Corbyn.
If I am speaking bluntly, it seems to me that you are looking way too hard for a correlation between the two in an effort to be the "I told you so" guy. It may very well end up being that Bernie loses to Trump, though I don't see how he loses the likes of Michigan and Wisconsin or even Ohio at this point. Anything can happen. But there is little to nothing (that I can see) that is similar enough between Bernie and Corbyn to warrant the comparison. The support profiles are completely different.
I have no idea. I was joking about it earlier. I certainly think Republicans have stuff they’re holding back but I don’t know if any of this will influence people in the election anyhow.Whats your take on this Tim? Do you think Bloomberg has all the damaging information on Bernie that his campaign manager is hinting at?
tim, what in the heck is Bernie going to do with foreign policy? Will he further isolate or rebuild alliances with the UK and with NATO? Or, like, what? I haven't heard a peep from him on foreign policy besides being against the second Iraq war from the beginning.If Bernie is the nominee I hope to Hell he wins big.
The Republicans are obviously going to go all out on it in a way that his primary opponents can't because they need his voters if they win the primary. From the polling, I think the primary is largely a forgone conclusion so I think if the other primary candidates have anything along the lines of oppo research they deem useful and aren't using it, they are making a mistake. It's like exhausting your pitchers in Game 6 down 3-2. You have to get to Game 7 before you worry about it and if they truly are holding something back they IMO are making a fatal error.I have no idea. I was joking about it earlier. I certainly think Republicans have stuff they’re holding back but I don’t know if any of this will influence people in the election anyhow.
I can’t imagine it will be anything I love. I’m guessing more isolationism with a little bit of Wilsonian self-righteousness sprinkled in. However I do think it will be an improvement on the current transactional state of affairs, but almost anything would be.tim, what in the heck is Bernie going to do with foreign policy? Will he further isolate or rebuild alliances with the UK and with NATO? Or, like, what? I haven't heard a peep from him on foreign policy besides being against the second Iraq war from the beginning.
Can you unpack this a bit for me? I mean, in all seriousness it's a genuinely asked question by me. I can't figure out what in the world our foreign policy involves right now.However I do think it will be an improvement on the current transactional state of affairs, but almost anything would be.
Simply put I believe that we mostly favor nations who do nice things for Trump and and his business associates. We are tough on nations that, by being tough on them, will energize Trump’s base. We ignore prior commitments no matter how long lasting, “what have you done for me lately?”has become the motto of the hour.Can you unpack this a bit for me? I mean, in all seriousness it's a genuinely asked question by me. I can't figure out what in the world our foreign policy involves right now.
If the 48% who didn't show in 2016 is lowered significantly and in big cities (which I would think would be the case) then Trump would probably be gonzo.I noticed the anecdotal voter in that case was an elderly woman who was sick of Trump and his low class deriding of John McCain. I wonder for how many people stuff like that is the real exposure they have of him, and whether or not people will vote against that. I personally view it, with no links to back it up, as something that is large enough to cause me not to vote for him. I was immediately turned off by the mocking of the disabled reporter, and it continued.
Okay. Sure, I've noticed that. I think the prior commitments and keeping with our allies prior to Obama's presidency is almost inordinately huge for me. I liked Klobuchar's (?) idea of immediately visiting our former allies and having formal interests in NATO come to the fore.Simply put I believe that we mostly favor nations who do nice things for Trump and and his business associates. We are tough on nations that, by being tough on them, will energize Trump’s base. We ignore prior commitments no matter how long lasting, “what have you done for me lately?”has become the motto of the hour.
There ya go.To be clear, I am talking about the messaging. That takes little work. That's just some in front of the cameras during the news cycles. It's pretty clear, the work they've been doing based on the stacks of bills sitting on McConnell's desk. Obviously, "full attention to both" is not attainable. That literally can't happen, but it's clear to me that the Dems are terrible at messaging...it's tough to watch at times.
In my opinion, when you say "we" here, you're primarily talking about older voters. I don't know that younger people feel this way, and i suspect that's a big part of why Bernie is much more popular among the young than the old. I'm 46 and I don't feel the way you describe.Because I think that, in both Britain and the United States, deep down in our psyches we reject the whole idea of socialism. ... It has more to do with that, in our core, we believe in individualism and self-reliance.
I can't remember where I saw the piece, but it was about what "socialism" means from a generational perspective. I will be 46 this year and I tend to agree with you while my mom is of the old school opinion. If we step back and think for two seconds, it makes total sense. Our parents grew up in a time where they could see legit, oppressive socialism so when they hear the word, that's what they associate it to. We never had that, nor will we ever have that again. Society has moved on, but those old definitions are alive and well primarily for fear mongering purposes of the retired portion of our electorate. And that association only goes away with time and death.In my opinion, when you say "we" here, you're primarily talking about older voters. I don't know that younger people feel this way, and i suspect that's a big part of why Bernie is much more popular among the young than the old. I'm 46 and I don't feel the way you describe.Because I think that, in both Britain and the United States, deep down in our psyches we reject the whole idea of socialism. ... It has more to do with that, in our core, we believe in individualism and self-reliance.
If this is true, they were/are fools. I find it a little hard to believe though.The Clinton campaign did hardly any heavyweight oppo on Bernie. Their focus was always on the general.
If only she knew that it spoke to his ideas and not his efficacy as a leader. But since she has basically the same ideas...
not in my opinion. they started the impeachment push on the day he was elected if not sooner.I know this is anathema to our cynicism about the parties, but maybe, just maybe, they impeached Donald Trump because he should have been and they saw that the civic duty of bringing forth the Articles of Impeachment was more important to the safety and security of the country than politicking about previous conditions w/r/t healthcare.
It could really be that, couldn't it be?
I guess I can't believe that an AVOWED socialist is going to be the candidate for Dems. Extreme is a soft term for what that entails.Anyhow, I’ve already written my belief that if Bernie wins the nomination he will likely lose the election- see Jeremy Corbyn- though of course I hope I’m wrong about that.
But even beyond that, his nomination makes me feel like there is no place for me, or people like me, in our political system at this time. It seems like on both sides the extremists have taken over.
They did? Who would that be?not in my opinion. they started the impeachment push on the day he was elected if not sooner.
I don't really have an answer, either. It seems like there were calls for impeachment and investigation as soon as he took office. That said, he seems to have left himself open to legitimate complaint.not in my opinion. they started the impeachment push on the day he was elected if not sooner.