What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

****Official DOJ Investigation into Trump, Fake Electors, Fraud, Etc.**** (1 Viewer)

dozer

Footballguy
As more evidence emerges of Trump’s attempt to hold the Presidency after losing the election, it is important to understand the multiple investigations going on right now.

Separate from the January 6th House Select Committee, the DOJ is doing its own investigation, and through these efforts, this is where we may see someone held accountable for the attempts to subvert our beloved democracy.

In this thread we will try to focus on the DOJ investigation.

There is obviously a lot of overlap between the other investigations.

Please contribute when you can, and correct me if I am wrong.

-

I’ll start with this “explainer” article I found on Brietbart.com that gives an excellent explanation of what is going on…

Article posted on Brietbart.com:

EXPLAINER: How fake electors tried to throw result to Trump

State attorneys general and the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol are digging deeper into the role that fake slates of electors played in the desperate effort by then-President Donald Trump to cling to power after his 2020 defeat

-

In our search for the truth, it would also be important to read The Eastman memo:

Read the memo for yourself here:

Trump lawyer's memo on six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election

John Eastman, a conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump's legal team, outlined in a two-page memo a scheme to try to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the 2020 election results on January 6.

-

The First Round of Subpoenas

Who, What, and Where:

The fake elector plan is the focus of one of the known prongs of the Justice Department’s broad grand jury investigation of Mr. Trump’s multiple and interlocking attempts to subvert the election.

The first subpoenas in the fake elector inquiry were largely sent to people in key swing states who almost took part in the plan but eventually did not for various reasons. This new round of subpoenas appears to be the first time that Trump campaign officials were brought into the investigation, marking a small but potentially significant step closer to Mr. Trump himself.

The plan to create pro-Trump electors in states won by Mr. Biden was among the earliest and most expansive of several plots by Mr. Trump and his allies to overturn the results of the election. It involved lawyers, state officials, White House and campaign aides, and members of Congress.

Newsweek Article 6/23/22

David Shafer

Shafer, the chairman of the Georgia Republican Party who served as a Trump elector in that state, was one of those who received a subpoena on Wednesday.

It was previously reported that Robert Sinners, an election operations director for Georgia, emailed Republicans urging them to declare the former president the winner in the state instead of Joe Biden, and asking them to operate in "complete secrecy."

Sinners said he did so under the direction of Shafer.

Brad Carver

The lawyer and Republican Party official also falsely claimed to be one of the "duly elected and qualified electors" in Georgia.

In December 2020, Carver was one of 16 Republicans who signed the false election certification declaring Trump had beaten Joe Biden in the state.

Thomas Lane

Lane, an official who worked on behalf of Trump's campaign in Arizona and New Mexico, was handed the subpoena by FBI agents at his home in Virginia.

Lane was seen in a December 2020 video posted online by the Arizona GOP handing out papers to a group of Republicans during a ceremony to sign illegitimate election result documents while falsely claiming they had the power to award Arizona's 11 electoral votes for Trump.

Shawn Flynn

The campaign aide for Trump in Michigan also received a subpoena

Detroit Free Press Article 6/23/22:

The campaign aide for Trump in Michigan also received a subpoena

Michele Lundgren, one of the individuals who signed documents attempting to elect Trump, said she was subpoenaed and met with federal agents from the FBI, Department of Justice and Inspector General for two hours Thursday. 

Lundgren said she signed a blank piece of paper with lines for each of the signatures.

"We were wrongly persuaded to come to Lansing and sign a blank piece of paper," she told the Free Press. She could not identify who persuaded her to sign the document.

Washington Examiner Article 6/23/22:

The FBI has seized the cellphone of the Nevada Republican Party chairman as part of an investigation into a fake elector scheme, according to a report Thursday.

Michael McDonald, the top official in the Nevada GOP, is being looked into as part of a wider investigation scrutinizing a plan to send illegitimate electors to cast the state's six electoral votes in the 2020 presidential election, according to a report from a CBS affiliate in Las Vegas.

Authorities also issued a search warrant for party secretary James DeGraffenreid, the report added.

McDonald and DeGraffenreid both reportedly signed a document signaling their support for former President Donald Trump, despite President Joe Biden carrying the state.

And the Pajama Drama:

Associated Press Article:

Feds search Trump-era official’s home, subpoena GOP leaders

Authorities on Wednesday searched the Virginia home of Jeffrey Clark, who was known at the Justice Department to champion Trump’s false claims of election fraud. Agents in recent days also served subpoenas on the Republican Party chairmen of Arizona, Nevada and Georgia, three states that went for President Joe Biden and where Trump allies created slates of “alternate electors” intended to subvert the vote.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

GordonGekko

Footballguy
As more evidence emerges of Trump’s attempt to hold the Presidency after losing the election, it is important to understand the multiple investigations going on right now.

Please contribute when you can, and correct me if I am wrong.

State attorneys general and the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol are digging deeper into the role that fake slates of electors played in the desperate effort by then-President Donald Trump to cling to power after his 2020 defeat


Direct Headline: The Electoral College should be eliminated

Twelve Democratic presidential candidates have explicitly called for the abolition of the Electoral College, while five others have said they are open to the idea...Some, like Sen. Elizabeth Warren, said they would back a constitutional amendment....Still others, like South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg, called the Electoral College “undemocratic,” but hasn’t been clear on how he would repeal the system...Four Democrats said they are open to abolishing the system but didn’t explicitly back doing so. Sen. Kamala Harris said she’s "open to the discussion," while Sen. Bernie Sanders said it’s “hard to defend the current system”

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/elections/electoral-college/

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES CHIAFALO ET AL. v. WASHINGTON
CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF WASHINGTON
No. 19–465. Argued May 13, 2020—Decided July 6, 2020

“A State may enforce an elector’s pledge to support his party’s nominee—and the state voters’ choice—for President. … Electors are not free agents; they are to vote for the candidate whom the State’s voters have chosen.”

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-465_i425.pdf

1948 Democratic Convention

Nearly two weeks after the convention, the president issued executive orders mandating equal opportunity in the armed forces and in the federal civil service. Outraged segregationists moved ahead with the formation of a States' Rights ("Dixiecrat") Party with Gov. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina as its presidential candidate...In the meantime, Thurmond, winning four states and 39 electoral votes, had fired a telling shot across the Democrats' bow.

Alonzo L. Hamby August 2008

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1948-democratic-convention-878284/

U.S. Supreme Court Ray v. Blair, 343 U.S. 214 (1952)

No. 649 Argued March 31, 1952 Decided April 3, 1952

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/343/214/

Direct Headline: Five Quotes From Joe Biden’s Eulogy of Famed Republican Racist Strom Thurmond

"Strom Thurmond was also a brave man, who in the end made his choice and moved to the good side. I disagreed deeply with Strom on the issue of civil rights and on many other issues, but I watched him change. We became good friends."...1973 Joe Biden would be stunned to hear that he “disagreed deeply” with Strom on the issue of civil rights given that 1973 and 1974 Biden consistently voted against bills that would have integrated schools. He even used the same “forced busing” phrase that Thurmond used to voice his opposition to the bills he joined Biden in opposing.

By Jacob Weindling    April 5, 2019    9:41am

https://www.pastemagazine.com/politics/joe-biden/five-quotes-from-joe-bidens-eulogy-of-famed-republ/

*****

Pennsylvania - No faithless elector laws

Georgia - No faithless elector laws

Michigan - Failure to vote as pledged cancels the vote and replaces the elector (Mich. Comp. Laws § 168.47 )

Arizona - Failure to vote as pledged cancels the vote and replaces the elector (Ariz. Rev. Stat § 16-212 )

Wisconsin - Vote counted as cast (Wis. Stat. § 7.75(2) )

Nevada - Failure to vote as pledged cancels the vote and replaces the elector (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 298.075(2) )

New Mexico - Vote counted as cast (N.M. Stat. Ann. § 1-15-9 )

- New Mexico is the only state that has some form of legal penalty on this list for electors whom refuse to vote as pledged.

*****

The states in dispute are Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, Nevada and New Mexico.

The United States Constitution does not cover the "Electoral College" in depth and never specifically does so by name. Article II and the 23rd Amendment are about logistics. The 12th Amendment defers specific breakdown of electors to state legislatures. ( SCOTUS reaffirms this in Chiafalo, but the distinction still remains that this is a matter for state legislatures to hash out for themselves in the details and previous precedents have only resulted in "fines" i.e. Colin Powell/Hillary Clinton) 

Two of the states mentioned have no laws regarding faithless electors. Three of the states mentioned allow some mechanism to replace electors in the case of faithless electors. Again, discretion is given to each respective state. The two states that could drive serious problems here are Wisconsin and New Mexico, but again, there would a require a deeper dive into their legislatures and election laws.

From an optics standpoint, dragging out the "rebellious electors" narrative and the "strong arming electors" narrative and "fake electors" narrative will push the conversation back to Strom Thurmond and how SCOTUS got to the point to rule on elector vote adherence (i.e. Ray). Then it pushes back to Joe Biden's relationship with Thurmond and their role together on Civil Rights issues. Biden pushes identity politics when his entire political career, outside of the protection of the activist complicit MSM, shows him as a racist. This is not the kind of backdoor media narrative that the Biden Administration is going to want in the Mid Terms and 2024.

This issue also drags out that POTUS contenders Warren, Sanders, Klobuchar and Buttigieg all wanted, on record, the electoral college to get wiped out. Kamala Harris maintains a fence sitter position here. None of this helps any of them if Trump and Eastman push the failures of the electoral college in the national daily media cycle. This particularly can hurt Buttigieg, and with the Afghanistan disaster, the Party apparatus needs a military man in tow for 2024 in some capacity.

In short, there needs to be a state by state breakdown, considering their respective laws, of what is being considered "fake electors"

I actually don't agree with what Trump did and said on J6. It was not in the best interests of functional governance and it was not what was best overall, by intent, for all Americans. That being said, these issues with the electors, on a broad scale, are still functionally MATTERS OF LAW and need to be examined by each state in question and by each accusation levied against what each respective state legislature has ruled and put in place.

What are these "fake documents to change electors" if you have states that have mechanisms to actually replace electors?

What exists as an "alternate/fake elector scheme" if you have states that have mechanisms to actually replace electors?

So you'll ask, did Trump and Eastman commit conspiracy?  Eastman presented a legal theory to Trump. They both approached Pence with it. Pence said I'll look into this and do my due diligence. Now Pence might have privately thought they were both insane and idiots and could see the dangerous pathway where this could all spiral out of control concerning rioting and violence in the streets. But it's Pence's job to do due diligence. He discussed it with his staff and legal experts around him and he told Trump and Eastman he could not support their claim.

The faithless elector issue, which is a real complex legal discussion BEFORE TRUMP EVER ENTERED PROFESSIONAL POLITICS, is enough of a hedge that Trump can believe, in his own state of mind, that he won the election.

Treason is off the table ( Trump is an idiot, he's not in league with the CCP and Xi to start World War III against the US). Sedition is off the table ( i.e the force test) . With the faithless elector issue, I'm going to have a hard time seeing conspiracy fly here and it provides some cover against obstruction. If even one single of the radical lefty lawyers here comes out to say Trump staying silent for hours as the riots and breaching kept going proves specific intent, go ahead and set your law degree on fire right now. 

I'll say it again, many of the states in question have mechanisms by state law to actually replace electors. A few have no laws at all regarding faithless electors. How easily can you unpack "illegal" here?

If some of you don't like the current law, then use the formal established method via our Constitution to change the law. How do you do that? You win a crapload of elections and you get the majorities you need, and you get SCOTUS reloaded with your Party's loyalists and you get to infuse the Judicial system with  your judges to uphold your public policy. Just keep winning elections and lots of them.

Do you know how you win lots of elections? YOU DELIVER WINS FOR EVERYDAY WORKING CLASS AMERICAN CITIZENS. Because there are more of them in masses than college aged/college educated liberal zealots trained as woke shock troopers, Limousine Liberals (plenty of those here in the PSF) and LGBTs. Has the Democratic Party been doing a good job of delivering wins for the average American at the ground level who is a paycheck and a half away from being homeless? No, not by a long shot.

******Here is the likely core argument John Eastman will make in his defense: The electors were not  "fake".  There is plenty of preexisting legal dispute over the matter of "faithless electors" to explore all practical avenues to ensure a "free and fair election"  The alternate electors were approached to cast their ballots or appealed to cast their ballots in order to prevent then sitting President Donald Trump from being disqualified by technicality in the event the mass of voter fraud lawsuits were successful. This dovetails back to W. Bush and Al Gore regarding Florida and the "Hanging Chads" in the 2000 general cycle. You cannot punish Eastman nor Trump for pursuing every legal avenue available. *******

People here, especially the endless gaggle of radical lefty lawyers can dispute what Eastman is likely to do, and to the merits of the argument, but it's still a functional legal discussion to be had.

You are attempting to oversimplify an incredibly complex issue regarding "faithless electors"

 

Prinefan

Footballguy
GordonGekko said:
People here, especially the endless gaggle of radical lefty lawyers can dispute what Eastman is likely to do, and to the merits of the argument, but it's still a functional legal discussion to be had.

You are attempting to oversimplify an incredibly complex issue regarding "faithless electors"
First off, Dozer is merely starting a thread about a separate investigation which (as time passes) will leap the J6 Committee hearings in importance as things tie together. I look forward to his contributions because they're informative and rational.  He's not "oversimplifying" anything.  We've all seen this fake elector scheme unfold and understand most of the complexities. 

Secondly, 

GordonGekko said:
Please contribute when you can, and correct me if I am wrong.
What the fxxx is wrong with Dozer asking people to contribute and correct him if he's wrong?  

I look forward to following this thread.

 

moleculo

Footballguy
IIRC, this isn't about "faithless electors" at all.  Its about sending illegitimate elector votes to Congress.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Even if you add the 45 "Pending" votes (far from a sure thing), this is still 30 votes short.  With a whole lot of luck, maybe Virginia and Nevada climb on board.  Maybe even Maine.  Still short.  I don't see 270 happening any time in the next 20 years.
Also I’m convinced the current Supreme Court would definitely nullify it.  Other than that it’s a perfectly good plan.

 

Desert_Power

Footballguy
Also I’m convinced the current Supreme Court would definitely nullify it.  Other than that it’s a perfectly good plan.
Yeah. There really is not much that can be done about the electoral college and the increasing power that low-population red states will have in the coming decades.

 

Dinsy Ejotuz

Footballguy
IIRC, this isn't about "faithless electors" at all.  Its about sending illegitimate elector votes to Congress.
A lawyer can claim bank robbery is legal in 20 pages of beautiful writing too.  But, if you're stupid enough to take that advice, you're still going to jail when you hold up a bank.

 

dozer

Footballguy
We’re talking about election fraud. People signed a document knowing what they were signing was fake.

Then people knowingly passed those known fake documents up the chain toward Pence, with each handler of those documents taking part…. knowingly…. In election fraud.

Below I share and summarize an article that discusses what may arise from last week’s DOJ subpoenas.

Marcy Wheeler, Emptywheel:

Jeffrey Clark: Physics Takes Over the Investigation Now

Last Thursday was an exciting day for those who have doubted Merrick Garland’s DOJ was really investigating top officials for matters pertaining to January 6.

And that makes it a really good time to talk some more about how investigations work in the era of encrypted applications. It’s likely to be months — likely at least six months — until anything comes out of last week’s seizures.

The reason has to do with physics (and law).

We can be fairly certain that Clark — and probably some of the fake electors on whom warrants were served — used Signal or other encrypted apps. That’s because Mark Meadows and Scott Perry were conducting some of this conspiracy over Signal too. We know this through evidence obtained through the J6 House Select Committee.

Indeed, one reason Clark may have been raided is because he makes an easier target, for now, than Meadows or the Members of Congress who were involved. All of Clark’s communications directly with then President Trump bypassed DOJ’s contact guidelines and most can be shown to be part of a plot to overturn the election, whereas many of Meadows’ communications will be protected by Executive Privilege and Perry’s by Speech and Debate.

To obtain Signal conversations that haven’t been saved to the cloud, one needs at least one of the phones that was involved in the conversation. That assumes the texts were not deleted.

So, one thing DOJ may have been trying to do, by seizing the phones of at least four players in the fake-electors plot on the same day, was to obtain phones sufficient to reconstruct any Signal threads about the plot.

--

Here's what the known details of some recent high-profile investigations look like.

For example:

Michael Cohen-

Initial Cloud Warrant- 07/18/2017

Initial Phone Seizure- 04/19/2018

Arrest of Plea- 08/21/2018

--

Whereas, during the Mueller investigation, the FBI could exploit phones in four months, of late, it has been taking closer to six months to exploit cell phones, even without any kind of special review. Part of this delay is physics: if a person uses any kind of secure password, it takes the FBI time to crack that password (and still more time if someone uses additional security features, as Enrique Tarrio did).

This pattern suggests several things about the investigation into Jeffrey Clark (and the fake electors). First, DOJ likely obtained their first probable cause warrants against Clark and the fake electors months ago, probably pretty close to the time  Lisa Monaco confirmed the investigation into the fake electors in January.

 

dozer

Footballguy
Milwaukee Journal Sentinal Article:

Ron Johnson now says he helped coordinate effort to pass false elector slates to Pence, but his new explanation drew a quick rebuke

WASHINGTON – After initially claiming to be "basically unaware" of an effort by his staff to get fake presidential elector documents to Vice President Mike Pence, U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson said Thursday he coordinated with a Wisconsin attorney to pass along such information…

“Johnson…. said in a Thursday interview on WIBA-AM that he had since discovered the documents came from Pennsylvania U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly, and acknowledged he coordinated with Dane County attorney Jim Troupis and his chief of staff…”

Kelly's office immediately pushed back on Johnson's claim, saying: "Senator Johnson's statements about Representative Kelly are patently false."

"Mr. Kelly has not spoken to Sen. Johnson for the better part of a decade…”

-

Ron Who??? :lol:

 
Last edited by a moderator:

dozer

Footballguy
Here are the individuals who signed false paperwork for Republicans trying to lay claim to Electoral College votes from Wisconsin that weren't theirs.

Bob Spindell-Republican appointee to the Wisconsin Elections Commission

Andrew Hitt-Then chairman of the state Republican Party

Kelly Ruh-Chairwoman of the 8th Congressional District GOP

Carol Brunner-Vice chairwoman of the 1st Congressional District GOP

Scott Grabins-Chairman of the Dane County Republican Party

Bill Feehan-Chairman of the La Crosse County Republican Party

Kathy Kiernan-Chairwoman of the 5th Congressional District GOP

Darryl Carlson-Chairman of the 6th Congressional District GOP

Pam TravisVice- chairwoman of the 7th Congressional District GOP

Mary BuestrinVice- chairwoman for the Midwest region for the Republican National Convention

 

The Z Machine

Footballguy
New: John Eastman has filed court papers claiming that federal agents executed a search warrant on June 22 and seized his phone.

Eastman submitted the search warrant written out in his name as part of his motion to retrieve property. So, it looks like federal agents really did seize his phone--on the same day they seized Jeff Clark's.
Why would he get his property back that was seized after an executed search warrant as part of a criminal investigation.  I guess he can try, but I would think that the request would be denied.

 

dozer

Footballguy
Just in -

Fulton judge signed off on DA Fani Willis' request to seek testimony in special grand jury proceedings investigating Trump from campaign attorney Kenneth Chesebro. This is the 1st example we have of the DA requesting testimony from someone with the Trump campaign. 1/3

Pettition For Certification Of Need For Testimony Before Special Purpose Grand Jury

In court filings, it is alleged Chesebro worked with Georgia GOP, including the state party chair, after the 2020 election and played role in coordinating 16 fake electors that met in Dec. 2020 to vote for Trump. 2/3

Also in the court filings, prosecutors claim Chesebro worked directly with Trump campaign attorney Rudy Giuliani to coordinate and execute the alternate elector plan. 3/3

Update - court record now shows Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has filed petitions to the court for testimony from Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Cleta Mitchell, Jackie Deason, Jenna Ellis (all Trump legal team), and U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham.

Atlanta Local News Article:

Judge approves order for testimony of Trump attorney in Fulton County 2020 election interference probe

The order alleges Kenneth Chesebro is a "necessary and material" witness in Fulton DA Fani Willis' investigation of the Trump team's 2020 efforts in Georgia.

The court's order said he was  involved in the "coordination and execution of a plan to have 16 individuals meet at the Georgia State Capitol on December 14, 2020 to cast purported electoral college votes in favor of former President Donald Trump, even though none of those 16 individuals had been ascertained as Georgia’s certified presidential electors by Georgia Governor Brian Kemp."

 

dozer

Footballguy
John Eastman continues effort to secure the return of his phone, which was seized last month by federal agents.

In court filing, he argues "Allowing government agents unrestricted access to the privileged materials on movant’s phone would clearly constitute irreparable harm"

Eastman court filing includes statement about Jan 6 Cmte:

"Movant is... attorney and can be assumed to have a wide variety of privileged information on his phone. He has already successfully resisted a government attempt to gain unrestricted access to one of his email accounts"

 

dozer

Footballguy
Kyle Cheney Twitter Thread:

JUST IN: Eleven of the false electors in Georgia say they've been told they're now "targets" of the grand jury investigation in Fulton County.

In a court filing, a lawyer for the false electors says they invoked their Fifth Amendment rights "reluctantly," calling the change in designation a "publicity stunt."

The GOP electors contend that they were in the dark about any Giuliani/Eastman plans to try to get Pence to count their "contingent" electoral votes as legitimate.

-

uh-huh… in the dark about all the criminal conspiracy going on around them…

Shocked I tell ya!!

 

The Z Machine

Footballguy
John Eastman continues effort to secure the return of his phone, which was seized last month by federal agents.

In court filing, he argues "Allowing government agents unrestricted access to the privileged materials on movant’s phone would clearly constitute irreparable harm"

Eastman court filing includes statement about Jan 6 Cmte:

"Movant is... attorney and can be assumed to have a wide variety of privileged information on his phone. He has already successfully resisted a government attempt to gain unrestricted access to one of his email accounts"
So attorneys are exempt from criminal searches of their property?

 

2Squirrels1Nut

Footballguy
Kyle Cheney Twitter Thread:

JUST IN: Eleven of the false electors in Georgia say they've been told they're now "targets" of the grand jury investigation in Fulton County.

In a court filing, a lawyer for the false electors says they invoked their Fifth Amendment rights "reluctantly," calling the change in designation a "publicity stunt."

The GOP electors contend that they were in the dark about any Giuliani/Eastman plans to try to get Pence to count their "contingent" electoral votes as legitimate.

-

uh-huh… in the dark about all the criminal conspiracy going on around them…

Shocked I tell ya!!


Ah the old "I was only kidding since I got caught" defense.   How many times have we heard this excuse now? 

 

massraider

Footballguy
Kyle Cheney Twitter Thread:

JUST IN: Eleven of the false electors in Georgia say they've been told they're now "targets" of the grand jury investigation in Fulton County.

In a court filing, a lawyer for the false electors says they invoked their Fifth Amendment rights "reluctantly," calling the change in designation a "publicity stunt."

The GOP electors contend that they were in the dark about any Giuliani/Eastman plans to try to get Pence to count their "contingent" electoral votes as legitimate.

uh-huh… in the dark about all the criminal conspiracy going on around them…

Shocked I tell ya!!
Cowards. 

 

dozer

Footballguy
CBS News Article:

Rudy Giuliani ordered to appear in Georgia Trump investigation

Rudy Giuliani has been ordered to appear before a special grand jury in Georgia investigating former President Trump's behavior after losing the 2020 election.

A notice filed Wednesday by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, who is overseeing the special grand jury in Atlanta, indicates Giuliani has been ordered to appear on Aug. 9.

 

dozer

Footballguy
Politico Article:

Top Trump lawyers briefed in detail on alternate elector plot on Dec. 13, 2020

The day before electors cast presidential votes, Trump lawyers received a detailed email on plans to legitimize pro-Trump slates in states that Joe Biden won.

As Donald Trump struggled to remain in power in late 2020, an anchor for a far-right TV network briefed a group of the president’s lawyers in detail on a plot to mobilize so-called alternate pro-Trump electors, according to an email reviewed by POLITICO.

On Dec. 13, 2020, the day before electors gathered to cast their states’ presidential votes as required by law, Christina Bobb of One America News emailed several Trump campaign aides and allies to discuss arrangements for the false electors. Teeing up those pro-Trump electors to represent states that Joe Biden won in 2020 was a linchpin of Trump’s efforts to challenge his loss.

 

Dinsy Ejotuz

Footballguy
NYT on the same thing:

Previously undisclosed emails provide an inside look at the increasingly desperate and often slapdash efforts by advisers to President Donald J. Trump to reverse his election defeat in the weeks before the Jan. 6 attack, including acknowledgments that a key element of their plan was of dubious legality and lived up to its billing as “fake.”

The dozens of emails among people connected to the Trump campaign, outside advisers and close associates of Mr. Trump show a particular focus on assembling lists of people who would claim — with no basis — to be Electoral College electors on his behalf in battleground states that he had lost.

In emails reviewed by The New York Times and authenticated by people who had worked with the Trump campaign at the time, one lawyer involved in the detailed discussions repeatedly used the word “fake” to refer to the so-called electors, who were intended to provide Vice President Mike Pence and Mr. Trump’s allies in Congress a rationale for derailing the congressional process of certifying the outcome. And lawyers working on the proposal made clear they knew that the pro-Trump electors they were putting forward might not hold up to legal scrutiny.

“We would just be sending in ‘fake’ electoral votes to Pence so that ‘someone’ in Congress can make an objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that the ‘fake’ votes should be counted,” Jack Wilenchik, a Phoenix-based lawyer who helped organize the pro-Trump electors in Arizona, wrote in a Dec. 8, 2020, email to Boris Epshteyn, a strategic adviser for the Trump campaign.

 

dozer

Footballguy
The Justice Department is investigating former President Donald Trump’s actions as part of its criminal probe into efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

 

The Commish

Footballguy
Another 1/6 thread!

This has got to be a record for one poster.
This will be the one where you find what you're allegedly looking for it appears.  Seems to be where we'll tracking the legal proceedings of the DOJ.  Given quantity is a problem for you, this is the one that will likely interest you the most.

 

shadrap

Footballguy
As more evidence emerges of Trump’s attempt to hold the Presidency after losing the election, it is important to understand the multiple investigations going on right now.

Separate from the January 6th House Select Committee, the DOJ is doing its own investigation, and through these efforts, this is where we may see someone held accountable for the attempts to subvert our beloved democracy.

In this thread we will try to focus on the DOJ investigation.

There is obviously a lot of overlap between the other investigations.

Please contribute when you can, and correct me if I am wrong.

-

I’ll start with this “explainer” article I found on Brietbart.com that gives an excellent explanation of what is going on…

Article posted on Brietbart.com:

EXPLAINER: How fake electors tried to throw result to Trump

State attorneys general and the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol are digging deeper into the role that fake slates of electors played in the desperate effort by then-President Donald Trump to cling to power after his 2020 defeat

-

In our search for the truth, it would also be important to read The Eastman memo:

Read the memo for yourself here:

Trump lawyer's memo on six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election

John Eastman, a conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump's legal team, outlined in a two-page memo a scheme to try to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the 2020 election results on January 6.

-

The First Round of Subpoenas

Who, What, and Where:

The fake elector plan is the focus of one of the known prongs of the Justice Department’s broad grand jury investigation of Mr. Trump’s multiple and interlocking attempts to subvert the election.

The first subpoenas in the fake elector inquiry were largely sent to people in key swing states who almost took part in the plan but eventually did not for various reasons. This new round of subpoenas appears to be the first time that Trump campaign officials were brought into the investigation, marking a small but potentially significant step closer to Mr. Trump himself.

The plan to create pro-Trump electors in states won by Mr. Biden was among the earliest and most expansive of several plots by Mr. Trump and his allies to overturn the results of the election. It involved lawyers, state officials, White House and campaign aides, and members of Congress.

Newsweek Article 6/23/22

David Shafer

Shafer, the chairman of the Georgia Republican Party who served as a Trump elector in that state, was one of those who received a subpoena on Wednesday.

It was previously reported that Robert Sinners, an election operations director for Georgia, emailed Republicans urging them to declare the former president the winner in the state instead of Joe Biden, and asking them to operate in "complete secrecy."

Sinners said he did so under the direction of Shafer.

Brad Carver

The lawyer and Republican Party official also falsely claimed to be one of the "duly elected and qualified electors" in Georgia.

In December 2020, Carver was one of 16 Republicans who signed the false election certification declaring Trump had beaten Joe Biden in the state.

Thomas Lane

Lane, an official who worked on behalf of Trump's campaign in Arizona and New Mexico, was handed the subpoena by FBI agents at his home in Virginia.

Lane was seen in a December 2020 video posted online by the Arizona GOP handing out papers to a group of Republicans during a ceremony to sign illegitimate election result documents while falsely claiming they had the power to award Arizona's 11 electoral votes for Trump.

Shawn Flynn

The campaign aide for Trump in Michigan also received a subpoena

Detroit Free Press Article 6/23/22:

The campaign aide for Trump in Michigan also received a subpoena

Michele Lundgren, one of the individuals who signed documents attempting to elect Trump, said she was subpoenaed and met with federal agents from the FBI, Department of Justice and Inspector General for two hours Thursday. 

Lundgren said she signed a blank piece of paper with lines for each of the signatures.

"We were wrongly persuaded to come to Lansing and sign a blank piece of paper," she told the Free Press. She could not identify who persuaded her to sign the document.

Washington Examiner Article 6/23/22:

The FBI has seized the cellphone of the Nevada Republican Party chairman as part of an investigation into a fake elector scheme, according to a report Thursday.

Michael McDonald, the top official in the Nevada GOP, is being looked into as part of a wider investigation scrutinizing a plan to send illegitimate electors to cast the state's six electoral votes in the 2020 presidential election, according to a report from a CBS affiliate in Las Vegas.

Authorities also issued a search warrant for party secretary James DeGraffenreid, the report added.

McDonald and DeGraffenreid both reportedly signed a document signaling their support for former President Donald Trump, despite President Joe Biden carrying the state.

And the Pajama Drama:

Associated Press Article:

Feds search Trump-era official’s home, subpoena GOP leaders

Authorities on Wednesday searched the Virginia home of Jeffrey Clark, who was known at the Justice Department to champion Trump’s false claims of election fraud. Agents in recent days also served subpoenas on the Republican Party chairmen of Arizona, Nevada and Georgia, three states that went for President Joe Biden and where Trump allies created slates of “alternate electors” intended to subvert the vote.
OMG, isn't all this in your other 3 threads on 1/6?

 

Prinefan

Footballguy
Another 1/6 thread!

This has got to be a record for one poster.
An existing thread was renamed.  Why do you have a problem with this?  BTW- We all know who is the record holder.  Unfortunately to anticipate your next question, I can't name names or I'd have to change my party affiliation.

 

Prinefan

Footballguy
OMG, isn't all this in your other 3 threads on 1/6?
Unfortunately, with the huge amount of evidence of crimes committed by Trump and his sycophants, as well as multiple different criminal investigations, there is a need to keep these separate so that people who are actually interested in learning the truth may do so with a little more ease than one thread with a wall of text that no one wishes to wade through for an ending that we all know is coming.

 

dozer

Footballguy
An existing thread was renamed.  Why do you have a problem with this?  BTW- We all know who is the record holder.  Unfortunately to anticipate your next question, I can't name names or I'd have to change my party affiliation.
The joke is, I have created two J6 threads!

This one and the Committee Thread…

Some folks just need to complain.

But, I think there is a distinction between the J6 Committee and the Department of justice that needs two different threads.

I mean, it is the largest investigation ever…

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Prinefan

Footballguy
The joke is, I have created two J6 threads!

This one and the Committee Thread…

Some folks just need to complain.

But, I think there is a distinction between the J6 Committee and the Department of justice that needs two different threads.
Agreed.  I think they see the writing on the wall and just like to flail at their perceived enemies.  Much like Trump in this (sur)real world. Definitely like both being separate.  They should too!  Gives them so much more room to spread their sunshine.

 

sho nuff

Footballguy
The joke is, I have created two J6 threads!

This one and the Committee Thread…

Some folks just need to complain.

But, I think there is a distinction between the J6 Committee and the Department of justice that needs two different threads.

I mean, it is the largest investigation ever…
Also a distinct differece between this, the committee thread, and that of the defendants being charged.  They seem to be informative and fact driven...which for some is a bother.

 

The Commish

Footballguy
I'm surprised we are this far into this thread and "Garland is just doing this because he has an axe to grind" hasn't been thrown out as the official narrative.  I actually admire the restraint :lol:

 
We need a dedicated 1/6 forum. Talk about a cesspool


We have one. It's called the political forum. See, when one of American's two major political parties tries to destroy American democracy it tends to come up a lot in political conversations.

If that bothers you (and I'm not sure why it does- it is just as easy to bury your head in the sand and ignore six threads as one), maybe you should not support traitorous politicians who support and defend terrorist attacks on the US government? Seems like an easy fix.

 

The Dude

Footballguy
The opposition reminds me of a recent discussion. 

Talking to a Trump supporter from the beginning. 

He was all in - even on the stupid stuff. 

Defended him for 4 plus years  

And this week he says his life is better since he stopped talking politics. 

Curious if it had anything to do with Trump trying to overturn the election or just coincidental timing.  🤣

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top