What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

****Official DOJ Investigation into Trump, Fake Electors, Fraud, Etc.**** (1 Viewer)

the moops

Footballguy
Even if he has classified documents, which doesn't appear to be in dispute:
1) Is this illegal for a former President?
2) What type, or how sensitive, would this information be to justify the political fall-out of this? There would have to be something huge to justify this, not just classified information, but the type that would be leave no doubt. Any ideas on what that could even be? Trump in contact directly with far right groups for Jan 6?
Good questions. There’s an obscure Federal Law - Section 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — that makes it a crime if someone who has custody of government documents or records “willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies or destroys” them.

If convicted, defendants can be fined or sentenced to prison for up to three years. In addition, the statute says, if they are currently in a federal office, they “shall forfeit” that office, and they shall “be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”
Good article about this - republicans were giddy about the possibility of Clinton not being able to hold office it convicted of something like this. Turns out its not true.

noted that the Constitution sets eligibility criteria for who can be president, and argued that Supreme Court rulings suggest Congress cannot alter it. The Constitution allows Congress to disqualify people from holding office in impeachment proceedings, but grants no such power for ordinary criminal law.

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Apparently the MAGA types are angrier about this than any moment since 1/6. There’s all sorts of talk about “civil war” on the internet.

I don’t really think anything will come of this (in terms of right wing violence.) But if it does it will not only be crushed very quickly, it will have a profound effect on the upcoming elections, and not in a way conservatives will like.

On the other hand, if there are no moronic acts of violence, then this event could energize conservatives beyond what they are now for November (and it’s already pretty high.) Might even turn around some of these Senate races (could help JD Vance and Oz in particular.)
 

ekbeats

Footballguy
I don’t really think anything will come of this (in terms of right wing violence.) But if it does it will not only be crushed very quickly, it will have a profound effect on the upcoming elections, and not in a way conservatives will like.
So said the picnicers at Manassas.
 

Yankee23Fan

Fair Tax!
Apparently the MAGA types are angrier about this than any moment since 1/6. There’s all sorts of talk about “civil war” on the internet.

I don’t really think anything will come of this (in terms of right wing violence.) But if it does it will not only be crushed very quickly, it will have a profound effect on the upcoming elections, and not in a way conservatives will like.

On the other hand, if there are no moronic acts of violence, then this event could energize conservatives beyond what they are now for November (and it’s already pretty high.) Might even turn around some of these Senate races (could help JD Vance and Oz in particular.)
If this energizes people to vote FOR the Trump-GOP then they are truly lost souls.
 

lazyike

Footballguy
You can't make this stuff up....back in early November of 2016 in regards to Hillary Clinton, Sarah Huckabee Sanders tweeted.."another day, another scandal in the news about the Clintons" followed by this tweet."When you're attacking the FBI because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing"
 

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
I hate Trump, but this is wrong.

I appreciate this - seriously


Lots of Trump haters here but if this will help keep Trump in a negative light they'll accept it even though its wrong :(

When did we get to that in this nation?

It may be politically wrong, but I’m not sure whether or not it’s legally wrong. Withholding judgment for the time being. It is truly significant though.
 

urbanhack

Fight The Power!
I hate Trump, but this is wrong.

I appreciate this - seriously


Lots of Trump haters here but if this will help keep Trump in a negative light they'll accept it even though its wrong :(

When did we get to that in this nation?

It may be politically wrong, but I’m not sure whether or not it’s legally wrong. Withholding judgment for the time being. It is truly significant though.
The federal judge and director of the FBI were both installed by Trump.
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
I hate Trump, but this is wrong.

I appreciate this - seriously


Lots of Trump haters here but if this will help keep Trump in a negative light they'll accept it even though its wrong :(

When did we get to that in this nation?

It may be politically wrong, but I’m not sure whether or not it’s legally wrong. Withholding judgment for the time being. It is truly significant though.
The federal judge and director of the FBI were both installed by Trump.
But “the democrats “ did this…is what I keep reading. And the White House denies having knowledge before the warrant was served.
 

2Squirrels1Nut

Footballguy
I hate Trump, but this is wrong.

I appreciate this - seriously


Lots of Trump haters here but if this will help keep Trump in a negative light they'll accept it even though its wrong :(

When did we get to that in this nation?

It may be politically wrong, but I’m not sure whether or not it’s legally wrong. Withholding judgment for the time being. It is truly significant though.
The federal judge and director of the FBI were both installed by Trump.

Wow. There must have been an overwhelming amount of evidence and importance to do this then.
 

JIslander

Footballguy
Apparently the MAGA types are angrier about this than any moment since 1/6. There’s all sorts of talk about “civil war” on the internet.

I don’t really think anything will come of this (in terms of right wing violence.) But if it does it will not only be crushed very quickly, it will have a profound effect on the upcoming elections, and not in a way conservatives will like.

On the other hand, if there are no moronic acts of violence, then this event could energize conservatives beyond what they are now for November (and it’s already pretty high.) Might even turn around some of these Senate races (could help JD Vance and Oz in particular.)
If this energizes people to vote FOR the Trump-GOP then they are truly lost souls.
I think that water passed under the bridge awhile ago ....
 

Witz

Footballguy
Wow. There must have been an overwhelming amount of evidence and importance to do this then.


we'll see

but c'mon ... do you REALLY think this isn't anything more than Russia / Ukraine / tax returns / Stormy Daniels etc etc head hunting ?

I saw this posted elsewhere but it rings true IMO and where it’s different than the other things -

You don’t become the first FBI Director, the first Attorney General and the first Federal Judge in our nations history to grant a search and seize warrant for the home of a former President unless you’ve seen the smoking gun.
 

Mookie

Footballguy
Why would Trump keep all of these records, in a safe no less, especially when he's been on notice since he left office that they were the property of the USA and had to be returned? I'm sure it was just pictures of his kids and some memes, right?
 

joffer

Footballguy
Wow. There must have been an overwhelming amount of evidence and importance to do this then.


we'll see

but c'mon ... do you REALLY think this isn't anything more than Russia / Ukraine / tax returns / Stormy Daniels etc etc head hunting ?

I saw this posted elsewhere but it rings true IMO and where it’s different than the other things -

You don’t become the first FBI Director, the first Attorney General and the first Federal Judge in our nations history to grant a search and seize warrant for the home of a former President unless you’ve seen the smoking gun.
I have little doubt they had good PC to find what they were looking for, but the question will then become what was it. I can see the Jon posts now framing it as they seized a birthday card signed by Putin.
 

bicycle_seat_sniffer

Smells like chicken
I hate Trump, but this is wrong.

I appreciate this - seriously


Lots of Trump haters here but if this will help keep Trump in a negative light they'll accept it even though its wrong :(

When did we get to that in this nation?

It may be politically wrong, but I’m not sure whether or not it’s legally wrong. Withholding judgment for the time being. It is truly significant though.
The federal judge and director of the FBI were both installed by Trump.
thats just how DEEP the deep state is!!!!
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
Wow. There must have been an overwhelming amount of evidence and importance to do this then.


we'll see

but c'mon ... do you REALLY think this isn't anything more than Russia / Ukraine / tax returns / Stormy Daniels etc etc head hunting ?
Russia/Mueller...resulted in multiple arrests and a report citinig multiple instances of obstruction of Justice (among other things). Ukraine...extremely bad resulting in impeachment. The problem with always calling these head hunting or witch hunts...is that they typically found the heads and witches along the way. Yeah, lots of people end up taking the fall for Trump this far in his life. All a coincidence that he surrounds himself with such awful people? Or maybe, just maybe...he has typically been involved in some very shady stuff and likely criminal behavior?
 

roadkill1292

Footballguy
I think this is all just another sign that the noose is tightening. And that insiders like Meadows and Manafort are beginning to sing.

If there's another Trump administration in our future, you can bet that personal loyalty to Himself will be the number one attribute any close or powerful appointee can bring as a qualification.

I think we're also seeing that, along with power and adulation, what Trump likes most about being president is the immunity.
 

Joe Mammy

Footballguy
Remember when Melania had some success selling NFT's at auctions?

Scanned classified docs would sell for a pretty penny on the black market NFT underweb.

Poor Jr. has been scanning for months!
 

JIslander

Footballguy
I think this is all just another sign that the noose is tightening. And that insiders like Meadows and Manafort are beginning to sing.

If there's another Trump administration in our future, you can bet that personal loyalty to Himself will be the number one attribute any close or powerful appointee can bring as a qualification.

I think we're also seeing that, along with power and adulation, what Trump likes most about being president is the immunity.
He's gonna require the same loyalty in the clink.
 

lazyike

Footballguy
If this energizes people to vote FOR the Trump-GOP then they are truly lost souls.

its energizing people to NOT vote for Trump - isn't it ? more anti-Trump hate right ? it works both ways, and the media knows it
1. The same people who were already were going to vote for Trump now saying they are more likely to vote for Trump doesn't equal more votes for Trump in 2024
2. Why are people who wanted to lock Hillary up fo her mishandling of classified emails now completely fine with Trump recklessly taking classified emails home with him after he lost which we know is illegal? No one is saying they came up with nothing. They took boxes of documents with them many of which were classified.
3. The fact that the DOJ would move forward with siezing these documents ( I think there is very little chance they come up with nothing) indicates to me that Trump is more likely to be indicted so I believe like it or not you are less likely to vote for Trump because he wouldn't be eligible.
 
Last edited:

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
Wow. There must have been an overwhelming amount of evidence and importance to do this then.


we'll see

but c'mon ... do you REALLY think this isn't anything more than Russia / Ukraine / tax returns / Stormy Daniels etc etc head hunting ?


Stealth: Are you aware that Trump’s campaign mgr admits he shared campaign data with a Russian intelligence offer during the 2016 campaign? https://news.yahoo.com/ex-trump-campaign-chairman-paul-140803308.html
 
Man, this is crazy. Talk about crossing a line. Steve Bannon just said on Fox - and I quote “We are at war.”

You've seen the warrant application?
Nope. From the reports I’ve been reading it’s not about Jan. 6 but about a violation of classified material handling. If that’s the case - knowing that nothing was done to Hillary - then this is a politically motivated prosecution. If all that is true - this will get REAL ugly.
Hillary was investigated over it, wasn’t she?
Served search warrants?
I think the Hillary search warrant was to open emails - not to have 30 FBI agents ransack her residence and break into her safe.

Further evidence that there is more to the Trump evidence than was to Clinton's.
Not sure I understand. I’ll just cut to the chase - based on what I know right now… I think the Left grossly overplayed their hand here, and it will backfire. I hate Trump, but this is wrong. The President can declassify anything, so the whole case here is in shaky ground to be behin with. Then factoring in the Russia collusion hoax, the whitewashing of Hilary, Hunter, even James Comey malfeasance…. You have to be blind if you think the DOJ and FBI aren’t making politically motivated decisions. This will not end well.

What exactly did "the Left" do here?

Before you answer, keep in mind that the FBI Director is a Republican Trump appointee, that the FBI rank-and-file are universally considered to be right-leaning, that a watchdog report concluded that there is no political bias in FBI agents' official actions as recently as 2019, and that we don't know what the warrant application said or which magistrate approved it.

Now then, what's the issue here?
 

moleculo

Footballguy
my link

I'm no expert, but this seems to be from a dispute between the Trump org and the national archives. Trump believed documents were his property, the National Archives thought they belonged to the office of the presidency. The Trump org cooperated for a while but that dried up. When pressed, Trump org still refused. So, the national archives went up the food chain and had a warrant.

in February, Archivist David Ferriero told U.S. House lawmakers that the National Archives and Records Administration had been in communication with Trump throughout 2021 about the return of 15 boxes of records. He eventually returned them in January 2022.

At the time, the National Archives was still conducting an inventory, but noted some of the boxes contained items "marked as classified national security information."

Trump previously confirmed that he had agreed to return certain records to the Archives, calling it "an ordinary and routine process." He also claimed the Archives "did not 'find' anything."

Why they felt they needed to do this - I have no idea. Why Trump org refused to cooperate - I also have no idea. At the end of the day, Trump tried to strong-arm, as he always does, and found out that the DoJ is more powerful than citizen Trump. This whole thing isn't a big deal, and is only being magnified to "OMG the FBI is weaponized!1!1!one!1" by sensational muckrakers.

"After working and cooperating with the relevant Government agencies, this unannounced raid on my home was not necessary or appropriate," Trump said, adding: "They even broke into my safe!"

Haha, you don't say? Is he under the impression that when raided by the FBI, his safe is out of bounds?
 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
Haha, you don't say? Is he under the impression that when raided by the FBI, his safe is out of bounds?
Instead of breaking into the safe and likely damaging it maybe just call DJT for the combo first?
First, do we know the safe was damaged? The FBI had professional safe crackers with them. I have no idea if they damage the safe.
Second, the FBI wouldn't be there if Trump had complied.
 

Sand

Footballguy
Haha, you don't say? Is he under the impression that when raided by the FBI, his safe is out of bounds?
Instead of breaking into the safe and likely damaging it maybe just call DJT for the combo first?
First, do we know the safe was damaged? The FBI had professional safe crackers with them. I have no idea if they damage the safe.
Second, the FBI wouldn't be there if Trump had complied.
We don't, though reports are the safe was empty.

Also, if a safe cracker was able to open the safe without grinding wheels and a blowtorch it wasn't much of a safe to begin with.
 

timschochet

Footballguy
Haha, you don't say? Is he under the impression that when raided by the FBI, his safe is out of bounds?
Instead of breaking into the safe and likely damaging it maybe just call DJT for the combo first?
First, do we know the safe was damaged? The FBI had professional safe crackers with them. I have no idea if they damage the safe.
Second, the FBI wouldn't be there if Trump had complied.
We don't, though reports are the safe was empty.
 

timschochet

Footballguy
Haha, you don't say? Is he under the impression that when raided by the FBI, his safe is out of bounds?
Instead of breaking into the safe and likely damaging it maybe just call DJT for the combo first?
First, do we know the safe was damaged? The FBI had professional safe crackers with them. I have no idea if they damage the safe.
Second, the FBI wouldn't be there if Trump had complied.
We don't, though reports are the safe was empty.

Also, if a safe cracker was able to open the safe without grinding wheels and a blowtorch it wasn't much of a safe to begin with.
What reports?
 

Sand

Footballguy
Haha, you don't say? Is he under the impression that when raided by the FBI, his safe is out of bounds?
Instead of breaking into the safe and likely damaging it maybe just call DJT for the combo first?
First, do we know the safe was damaged? The FBI had professional safe crackers with them. I have no idea if they damage the safe.
Second, the FBI wouldn't be there if Trump had complied.
We don't, though reports are the safe was empty.

Also, if a safe cracker was able to open the safe without grinding wheels and a blowtorch it wasn't much of a safe to begin with.
What reports?
 

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
Trump could release the warrant or contest the warrant in court if he felt the warrant was legally defective.

Any guesses as to why neither of these have happened?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top