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Darrell Henderson - LA Rams

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6 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

I'm talking about redrafts.  99% of fantasy leagues are redrafts...always seems weird to me for people to assume discussion is dynasty based.

I’d posit that the majority of people reading this board in May play dynasty.  This is not redraft season. 

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2 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

I’d posit that the majority of people reading this board in May play dynasty.  This is not redraft season. 

I would presume there is more best ball drafts than dynasty drafts...but this board does seem overly dynasty slanted.

The sharks are playing best balls.

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For the record, I’m talking dynasty when I’m in rookie threads in the spring time. 

 

Part of my ranking him higher than many is simply my love for ZWK's contributions on this board. His formulas had him ranked highest and, once the top 3 rookie RBs were off the board, I thought I’d blindly follow ZWK's rankings since I don’t no nuthin' bout college football players. Yes, I’m also the guy who pays for FBG for their rankings so I don’t have to do my own. :) 

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So if you team needed a WR (bad) and you needed a TE (pretty bad) would you still spend the 1.6 rookie pick on Henderson? I also have the 2.1 and 3.6. With all these recent posts about Henderson going in the mid to late 1st I'm no longer thinking he'd last to 2.1. A week ago I was sure I'd net Metcalf/AJ Brown/Deebo at 1.6 and Hendo would be there at 2.1...now I'm not so sure 

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Massive over-correction, which will push someone else I prefer down to me in my last draft at 12.

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5 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

So if you team needed a WR (bad) and you needed a TE (pretty bad) would you still spend the 1.6 rookie pick on Henderson? I also have the 2.1 and 3.6. With all these recent posts about Henderson going in the mid to late 1st I'm no longer thinking he'd last to 2.1. A week ago I was sure I'd net Metcalf/AJ Brown/Deebo at 1.6 and Hendo would be there at 2.1...now I'm not so sure 

Probably not. I'd likely go wr, hope he slips to 2.1 in that scenario, and if not I'd have a good te to take. 

FWIW I took Deebo 2.4 in my draft, but that was largely due to me drafting JJAW and Isabella at 1.8 and 2.1...

 

ETA: but then again, Henderson is my overall #2 player in this draft so :shrug:

Edited by Dr. Dan

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24 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

 

 

ETA: but then again, Henderson is my overall #2 player in this draft so :shrug:

:hifive:

Henderson is my #1.

Edited by TripItUp
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40 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

I would presume there is more best ball drafts than dynasty drafts...but this board does seem overly dynasty slanted.

The sharks are playing best balls.

 

I guess that makes me a guppy.

:kicksrock:

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5 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I guess that makes me a guppy.

:kicksrock:

That vast majority of "experts" or guys that get paid to do fantasy analysis are more heavily involved in best balls than dynasty.  That doesn't mean if you don't do best balls you're a guppy.  

Edited by TripItUp

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I'm a little nervous this is going to turn into the Christine Michael thread.  Particularly nervous because I owned Michael and now own Henderson...

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40 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

:hifive:

Henderson is my #1.

would you take him 1.1? assuming no trade partners to trade down?

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

would you take him 1.1? assuming no trade partners to trade down?

It depends on situation.   But I would consider Henderson in most spots.  I like Montgomery too.  

I have Jacobs ranked lower than pretty much everybody...but that is for another thread.

 

Edited by TripItUp
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3 hours ago, TripItUp said:

I'm talking about redrafts.  99% of fantasy leagues are redrafts...always seems weird to me for people to assume discussion is dynasty based.

I played 100 redraft leagues last year drafting between June through the day of the season.

Kamara was drafted in all 100 leagues.  Not sure what leagues he was not being drafted in.  The ones with only 14 roster spots maybe.  I don't play those kind of leagues I think that takes a lot of the skill out of it with such short benches and short starting lineups.  Every league I play has 20 roster spots.

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1 hour ago, Dez said:

I played 100 redraft leagues last year drafting between June through the day of the season.

Kamara was drafted in all 100 leagues.  Not sure what leagues he was not being drafted in.  The ones with only 14 roster spots maybe.  I don't play those kind of leagues I think that takes a lot of the skill out of it with such short benches and short starting lineups.  Every league I play has 20 roster spots.

I was addressing Kamara's rookie year, obviously not last year where he was a consensus first round pick.  That's why my original post said "two years ago."

 

I'm comparing Kamara and Henderson's rookie seasons...because the Rams have compared Henderson to Kamara.

Edited by TripItUp

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15 minutes ago, Dez said:

I played 100 redraft leagues last year drafting between June through the day of the season.

Kamara was drafted in all 100 leagues.  Not sure what leagues he was not being drafted in.  The ones with only 14 roster spots maybe.  I don't play those kind of leagues I think that takes a lot of the skill out of it with such short benches and short starting lineups.  Every league I play has 20 roster spots.

 

Did you play in 100 leagues because it is a nice round number, or maybe because 99 is just not enough and 101 is just too far over the top?

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5 hours ago, TripItUp said:

I was addressing Kamara's rookie year, obviously not last year where he was a consensus first round pick.  That's why my original post said "two years ago."

 

I'm comparing Kamara and Henderson's rookie seasons...because the Rams have compared Henderson to Kamara.

Yeah I drafted Kamara and Hunt in several redrafts their rookie year and won a ton of money off getting them everywhere. Except I was never able to snag Kamara in dynasty. But he was drafted in all my redrafts his rookie year. In my big auction redraft he got nominated pretty late. I got him for 5 on a 200 budget. So I'll say with shallow benches there were likely some redraft leagues out there that he wasn't drafted. A few here and there I'll believe it.

Edited by barackdhouse

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8 hours ago, Tool said:

I'm a little nervous this is going to turn into the Christine Michael thread.  Particularly nervous because I owned Michael and now own Henderson...

Christine Michael was a combine star. He wasn't that productive as a college player and was outperformed by team mates Ben Malena as a senior, and Cyrus Gray for the two seasons before that.

Michael was always a projection. Especially by the Seahawks drafting him as high as they did. Always something missing upstairs with Michael like not knowing the play. 

Henderson was a remarkably productive college player. He gets it. So at least these two things are very different about them.

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1 hour ago, ChuckLiddell said:

He does not appear to be a special specimen in any way.  Just looking at the numbers, not the tape.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/darrell-henderson

Yeah it’s the tape for me. He shows potentially elite receiving ability and his burst/acceleration stuck out to me. Both of those are more subjective things. The burst was backed up somewhat by a great 10 yard split on the 40.

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Smaller RBs in today's NFL need much more than good (not great) speed. Nearly every player on D can run. Henderson lacks the loose hips I look for, especially in smaller RBs. He's fairly stiff/upright as a runner & also not an accomplished receiver.

Henderson obviously does some things well, but I'm not seeing it AT ALL as far as a top long-term FF asset. That said, the Rams O could make him better than his raw skills would suggest. The problem is the Rams have been very open about their projected usage for him as a COP. I heard comments that they compared him to Kamara, but when I read the article, Snead only referred to Kamara-like "elements" in their offense (not personally comparing him to Kamara).

 

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BTW, in the article, it referenced Lance Dunbar, Nyheim Hines, & Ito Smith as guys in this ilk the Rams either signed (Dunbar) or liked in the draft & missed out on (Hines/Smith).

I believe we're looking at a true role player here with Henderson. As far as FF, the Rams O could give him a nice floor, but his ceiling is somewhat limited, IMO.

Edited by Football Jones
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1 hour ago, Football Jones said:

BTW, in the article, it referenced Lance Dunbar, Nyheim Hines, & Ito Smith as guys in this ilk the Rams either signed (Dunbar) or liked in the draft & missed out on (Hines/Smith).

I believe we're looking at a true role player here with Henderson. As far as FF, the Rams O could give him a nice floor, but his ceiling is somewhat limited, IMO.

Tend to agree.  Everything I've read is that MB is a 3 down back and Henderson is a COP guy.  You don't pay up to keep Brown and then forget about him.

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54 minutes ago, jm192 said:

Tend to agree.  Everything I've read is that MB is a 3 down back and Henderson is a COP guy.  You don't pay up to keep Brown and then forget about him.

Did they really "pay up" for Brown? He got the going rate a 3rd strong rb was getting this offseason. Also, that was before they drafted Henderson. More of a red flag if they signed him post draft IMO, and for more than the going rate for a backup to the backup rb

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22 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Did they really "pay up" for Brown? He got the going rate a 3rd strong rb was getting this offseason. Also, that was before they drafted Henderson. More of a red flag if they signed him post draft IMO, and for more than the going rate for a backup to the backup rb

I didn't mean to imply they paid a premium, maybe poor wording.  But why match an offer sheet if your intention is to draft someone to replace him

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4 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I didn't mean to imply they paid a premium, maybe poor wording.  But why match an offer sheet if your intention is to draft someone to replace him

The Lions offered a contract which was lower than what Brown would get if he had signed what the Rams offered initially. It had guaranteed money upfront which is probably why Brown signed. So matching the Lions offer was a nobrainer for the Rams FO. Why the Lions did the Rams this favor I don’t know but maybe they were more interested in CJ Anderson and wanted to force the Rams hand.

I don’t think the Rams signing Brown should be seen as a foregone conclusion that he is the man if Gurley goes down because of the contract at least. His skillset is probably more suited for 3 down work, though, compared to Henderson.

This coming from a Browns owner btw.

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2 hours ago, Football Jones said:

BTW, in the article, it referenced Lance Dunbar, Nyheim Hines, & Ito Smith as guys in this ilk the Rams either signed (Dunbar) or liked in the draft & missed out on (Hines/Smith).

I believe we're looking at a true role player here with Henderson. As far as FF, the Rams O could give him a nice floor, but his ceiling is somewhat limited, IMO.

He’s 10+ lbs heavier than those guys and was taken significantly higher in the draft. Just because he can do what those guys can do in the passing game doesn’t mean he’s limited to that. Personally I think if he would have landed in any number of other places there would be no doubt that he could be a featured player at 5’8 208. But the Rams saw that he could provide something of great value to them as a change up to Gurley and as a weapon in the passing game so they snagged him. If it turns out that his talent his legit then a Kamara/rich man’s White ceiling is pretty good.

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1 minute ago, Cobbler1 said:

He’s 10+ lbs heavier than those guys and was taken significantly higher in the draft. Just because he can do what those guys can do in the passing game doesn’t mean he’s limited to that. Personally I think if he would have landed in any number of other places there would be no doubt that he could be a featured player at 5’8 208. But the Rams saw that he could provide something of great value to them as a change up to Gurley and as a weapon in the passing game so they snagged him. If it turns out that his talent his legit then a Kamara/rich man’s White ceiling is pretty good.

:goodposting:

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19 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

He’s 10+ lbs heavier than those guys and was taken significantly higher in the draft. Just because he can do what those guys can do in the passing game doesn’t mean he’s limited to that. Personally I think if he would have landed in any number of other places there would be no doubt that he could be a featured player at 5’8 208. But the Rams saw that he could provide something of great value to them as a change up to Gurley and as a weapon in the passing game so they snagged him. If it turns out that his talent his legit then a Kamara/rich man’s White ceiling is pretty good.

Sure, the Rams like Henderson, but he's still a smaller RB. Henderson is similar to Abdullah in that I don't believe he's dynamic enough to cover for his lack of size (weight). In general, I'm surprised by the love Henderson has received in the FF community considering his lack of feature back traits. I believe it's in large part to Gurley's uncertainty, but even if Gurley continues to have problems, Henderson could easily get drafted over in the strong 2020 RB class. Henderson is likely to be much more valuable as an NFL player than in FF.

Like I mentioned earlier, Henderson is going to be interesting for me because my view of him seems much different than the vast majority of FFers. I've been very successful vetting smaller RBs so I'm curious to see how this plays out long-term.

Edited by Football Jones

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Ugh. He's going to keep rising and I'm going to have to use my first on him....

 

-Gurley owner...

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16 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Sure, the Rams like Henderson, but he's still a smaller RB. Henderson is similar to Abdullah in that I don't believe he's dynamic enough to cover for his lack of size (weight). In general, I'm surprised by the love Henderson has received in the FF community considering his lack of feature back traits. I believe it's in large part to Gurley's uncertainty, but even if Gurley continues to have problems, Henderson could easily get drafted over in the strong 2020 RB class. Henderson is likely to be much more valuable as an NFL player than in FF.

Like I mentioned earlier, Henderson is going to be interesting for me because my view of him seems much different than the vast majority of FFers. I've been very successful vetting smaller RBs so I'm curious to see how this plays out long-term.

He’s not small. Every time you think this delete what you write because you don’t understand the word.

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Calling someone with an 80th percentile BMI small is grossly negligent and borderline incompetent in this community.

Edited by Bojang0301
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2 hours ago, jm192 said:

Tend to agree.  Everything I've read is that MB is a 3 down back and Henderson is a COP guy.  You don't pay up to keep Brown and then forget about him. 

They didn't really pay up though.  They acted in their best interests in that moment.  This is how teams operate, they go with the current status quo.  They have no idea who they might and might not draft, or might and might not be healthy, or might and might not be signed or traded for later.  The team was in body-signing mode and signed a body they liked at that moment.  That's all that was.  Players get superceded all the time and teams don't operate like fantasy owners hoping to min/max their draft spreadsheets or rebuild their roster.

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If Brown or Kelly were the answer to back up Gurley then why were they using CJ Anderson last year?

The Rams did trade up for Henderson and he was the 3rd RB selected in the draft. Its a pretty clear message in my view that they wanted a better second RB than what they had.

Personally I think Henderson is the best RB of the 2019 draft class and that the other contenders are not really close. So not really a surprise to me he is being drafted as high as he is. I don't really think its a over reaction to anything.

Todd Gurley is a huge obstacle to his opportunity. Otherwise I would be arguing for Henderson 1st overall.

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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

Calling someone with an 80th percentile BMI small is grossly negligent and borderline incompetent in this community.

It's all about weight, not BMI. BMI means nothing more than how stocky you are or aren't. A high BMI can mean you're strong depending on how much of your weight is lean muscle mass, but Henderson isn't a power runner & doesn't try to be.

Henderson is a smaller (lighter) RB. Period. He's fairly strong for his size (weight). That's about all I can say good about his BMI.

Edited by Football Jones

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Mile Sanders: 220 attempts, 1274 yards, (5.8 ypc), 9 tds. Considered a 3 down RB

Nick Chubb: 223, 1435 (6.0 ypc), 15 tds. Considered a 3 down RB

Saquon Barkely: 217, 1271 (5.9), 18 tds. Considered a generational talent 

Sony Michel, Royce Freeman, I could go on and on about guys who could "do it all" and look at their rushing stats in their last year of college....

 

 

 

Darrell Henderson: 214, 1909 (8.9), 22 tds. Considered a COP back :lmao:

 

ETA: not saying he will be the best of this bunch, just pointing out that I have no idea where this "COP"  narrative has come from unless it's just groupthink 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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1 hour ago, jm192 said:

I didn't mean to imply they paid a premium, maybe poor wording.  But why match an offer sheet if your intention is to draft someone to replace him

It cost the Rams $3.25MM for two years ($1.62 per) in order to add some depth and to give them some flexibility in the draft. The Bears signed Mike Davis in free agency this year and the Browns signed Carlos Hyde last offseason for the same reasons and it didn't stop them from drafting a RB that was expected to supplant the veteran.

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1 hour ago, Bucky86 said:

Ugh. He's going to keep rising and I'm going to have to use my first on him....

 

-Gurley owner...

There was never a time you wouldn't have had to use a first. He went in the first (at 1.09) in a draft the Monday immediately following draft weekend and at 1.07 in a draft that started three days later.

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1 hour ago, Football Jones said:

Sure, the Rams like Henderson, but he's still a smaller RB. Henderson is similar to Abdullah in that I don't believe he's dynamic enough to cover for his lack of size (weight). In general, I'm surprised by the love Henderson has received in the FF community considering his lack of feature back traits. I believe it's in large part to Gurley's uncertainty, but even if Gurley continues to have problems, Henderson could easily get drafted over in the strong 2020 RB class. Henderson is likely to be much more valuable as an NFL player than in FF.

Like I mentioned earlier, Henderson is going to be interesting for me because my view of him seems much different than the vast majority of FFers. I've been very successful vetting smaller RBs so I'm curious to see how this plays out long-term.

Abdullah was a lighter power back. As you state below that’s not Henderson’s game. I like EBF’s thoughts a couple pages back comparing him to Chris Johnson or Jamaal Charles style wise. He just merely has good speed, not devastating speed. He makes similar cuts and I think he can be Charles like as a receiver. And his burst seems on par. 4.49 is plenty fast to house his fair share of runs.

 

ETA- I’m interested as well to see how this shakes out. I’m veru curious to see how they use him in conjunction with Gurley as I doubt they burned an early 3rd for no reason.

Edited by Cobbler1

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13 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

It's all about weight, not BMI. BMI means nothing more than how stocky you are or aren't. A high BMI can mean you're strong depending on how much of your weight is lean muscle mass, but Henderson isn't a power runner & doesn't try to be.

Henderson is a smaller (lighter) RB. Period. He's fairly strong for his size (weight). That's about all I can say good about his BMI.

208 pounds is not light for an NFL RB. I know you have this 215 pound cutoff "system" you created a thread about last offseason, but there have been so many successful backs under 215 pounds, I can't imagine why you would believe that.

You can bring up Abdullah 1,000 times (and you probably have) but that's a meaningless anecdotal example.

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17 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

If Brown or Kelly were the answer to back up Gurley then why were they using CJ Anderson last year?

The Rams did trade up for Henderson and he was the 3rd RB selected in the draft. Its a pretty clear message in my view that they wanted a better second RB than what they had.

Personally I think Henderson is the best RB of the 2019 draft class and that the other contenders are not really close. So not really a surprise to me he is being drafted as high as he is. I don't really think its a over reaction to anything.

Todd Gurley is a huge obstacle to his opportunity. Otherwise I would be arguing for Henderson 1st overall.

Well Kelly isn’t the answer, but Brown was hurt late in the year a little before Gurley had his issues so they had to sign CJA. Agree with everything else about Henderson. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

208 pounds is not light for an NFL RB. I know you have this 215 pound cutoff "system" you created a thread about last offseason, but there have been so many successful backs under 215 pounds, I can't imagine why you would believe that.

You can bring up Abdullah 1,000 times (and you probably have) but that's a meaningless anecdotal example.

Abdullah & Henderson are pretty similar. Anyway, as far as my "system", there's a lot to why I've been successful vetting smaller RBs, but I digress.

My main point is I'm not the outlier as far as saying Henderson is a smaller RB. Henderson's scouting report is filled with concerns about his size. Anybody who thinks there isn't a size concern with him is the outlier, not me.

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41 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

It's all about weight, not BMI. BMI means nothing more than how stocky you are or aren't. A high BMI can mean you're strong depending on how much of your weight is lean muscle mass, but Henderson isn't a power runner & doesn't try to be.

Henderson is a smaller (lighter) RB. Period. He's fairly strong for his size (weight). That's about all I can say good about his BMI.

You don’t know what you’re doing. It’s been proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over again yet you still repeat it. Shame on you for continuing to say it. I sincerely hope there aren’t posters that listen to your nonsense. You continually do this. It’s beyond ridiculous. Should I post the literal HUNDREDS of NFL backs that have succeed under your pointless threshold every single time you spurt this tripe.

Edited by Bojang0301
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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

You don’t know what you’re doing. It’s been proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over again yet you still repeat it. Shame on you for continuing to say it. I sincerely hope there aren’t posters that listen to your nonsense. You continually do this. It’s beyond ridiculous. Should I post the literal HUNDREDS of NFL backs that have succeed under your pointless threshold every single time you spurt this tripe.

This is 2019, not the 80s, 90s, or even the 2000s. The overwhelming percentage of top RBs in FF lately (going back a ways) have been decent-sized guys. There's a reason for that. Lots of RBs still come into the league around Henderson's size & very few succeed as feature backs. The ones that make it are dynamic & have certain traits. It's not rocket science. 

Let's not derail the thread. For me, I'm just emphasizing how my view of Henderson is much different than the vast majority of FFers, mostly due to his size (weight) to dynamics ratio. I'm really not trashing him as opposed to simply thinking he's way overrated right now. People can take it or leave it like any other opinion. Plus, even if I disagree with somebody, I like hearing other opinions. That's what this message board is about.

 

Edited by Football Jones

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45 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Abdullah & Henderson are pretty similar.

Just stop...

 

Abdullah: 5’9, 205 pounds,  BMI 30.3

Henderson: 5’8, 208 pounds, BMI 31.6

This is about where their similarities stop. so you can be lazy and stop here and say they are "pretty similar" or you can read on and see how they couldnt be less similar. 

 

Abdullah:

42.5” vertical

130” broad jump

40 yard: 4.60 sec

Bench: 24 reps

 

Henderson:

33.5” vertical

121.0” broad jump

40 yard dash: 4.49”

Bench: 22 reps

 

Last 2 college season averages:

Abdullah: 272.5 attempts, 1650.5 yards (6.0 YPC), 14 TDs

Henderson: 171 attempts, 1531.5 yards (8.9 YPC), 15.5 TDs

 

Yeah…… practically twins :rolleyes:

 


 

 

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5 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

 

Let's not derail the thread.

Too late. The minute you hit "Submit Reply" it was done. 

Go talk about how much better Jamaal Williams is than Aaron Jones again. I dont think you've ruined those threads enough. 

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23 hours ago, TripItUp said:

I'm talking about redrafts.  99% of fantasy leagues are redrafts...always seems weird to me for people to assume discussion is dynasty based.

I don't know a single redraft league Kamara was not drafted in either. I was using 8th-10th round picks on him BEFORE the NFL draft.

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47 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Just stop...

 

Abdullah: 5’9, 205 pounds,  BMI 30.3

Henderson: 5’8, 208 pounds, BMI 31.6

This is about where their similarities stop. so you can be lazy and stop here and say they are "pretty similar" or you can read on and see how they couldnt be less similar. 

 

Abdullah:

42.5” vertical

130” broad jump

40 yard: 4.60 sec

Bench: 24 reps

 

Henderson:

33.5” vertical

121.0” broad jump

40 yard dash: 4.49”

Bench: 22 reps

 

Last 2 college season averages:

Abdullah: 272.5 attempts, 1650.5 yards (6.0 YPC), 14 TDs

Henderson: 171 attempts, 1531.5 yards (8.9 YPC), 15.5 TDs

 

Yeah…… practically twins :rolleyes:

 


 

 

Both aren't dynamic enough for their size (weight). Both have rather tight hips which limits elusiveness. Both have tackle-breaking concerns. Neitehr is an accomplished receiver

Mediocre power & not being dynamic enough, especially without plus receiving ability, is a poor combination.

Edited by Football Jones

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Too late. The minute you hit "Submit Reply" it was done. 

Go talk about how much better Jamaal Williams is than Aaron Jones again. I dont think you've ruined those threads enough. 

Probably ought to venture into the Marlon Mack and Dalvin Cook threads and state they’re too small COP backs while he’s at it.

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15 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Too late. The minute you hit "Submit Reply" it was done. 

Go talk about how much better Jamaal Williams is than Aaron Jones again. I dont think you've ruined those threads enough. 

 

8 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Probably ought to venture into the Marlon Mack and Dalvin Cook threads and state they’re too small COP backs while he’s at it.

I've been a Cook supporter, but if I were you & @Dr. Dan, I'd maybe want to pay attention to somebody who has had a ton of success in this hobby & have done it with some unique approaches. Possibly even try to take something away from my posts.

Anyway, I respect the posters who may disagree, but can stay on topic & discuss differences in opinion or if nothing else, agree to disagree.

 

Edited by Football Jones

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